View Full Version : Pricing wisely
xdamage
09-04-2007, 09:49 AM
But clubs DO THIS! They do it all the time. I just wrote about it above. This isn't some new concept you just thought of X. And the clubs heavily advertise the specials to bring people in during off hours, and on off-days( Sunday).
I never said (or thought) it was a new idea or that no clubs have thought of it. It's just a discussion forum, nobody is telling anyone what to do, it's just a bunch of misc thoughts from misc people.
Most of us have worked in these kinds of clubs, and are comfortable with this type of pricing because it is "uniform." Sometimes girls get away with charging full-price, and some guys are even willing to pay above the special rate.
So I guess I don't understand what the disagreement is then. Now you are saying that some clubs already do this and you are comfortable with it, which doesn't completely jive with some of the posts that argue they'd never work for lower prices. But in any case, the question is, does it improve your earnings or not? If not, then it should be done away with. If it does, then do all dancers universally despise the increased income (even if means a lower price per dance)?
As for the uniformity... sure, I wasn't suggesting making up your own prices if your co-contractors are the types who drag you out in the back alley and beat your ass for it. That doesn't exactly scream that these are sane, or even intelligent people, but if that's the reality then of course it can't happen unless the club owners make it happen and decide the pricing for the contractors.
xdamage
09-04-2007, 10:26 AM
honestly, you are completely wrong. the reason is that general price-reductions hurt dancers overall,
There is a valid argument that businesses hurt themselves in the long run by competing over prices, and using price reductions. Some companies actively fight doing so, like Apple Computer who has decided there will be no price competition, the price you pay in one store (including their own) is the same you'll pay anywhere else. So far it has worked for them. And there other high end stores like Neiman Marcus that avoided sales and price competitions for a long time (although Neiman Marcus has since added bi-yearly sales, and outlet stores because other similar stores like Nordstroms caved in). I guess it ultimately comes down to once the competition starts, everyone in the business can feel forced to compete or lose out.
OTOH, who here hasn't taken advantage of a sale, or visited an over-priced restaurant during the off hours, or taken advantage of a 2 for 1 drink night, or whatever? Chances are you didn't think of yourself as some cheap bastard for it, you just thought you were being a smart buyer. The market for full price never completely goes away, but sure, some people will only buy what is on sale, or only visit when the prices are reduced. But you didn't take advantage of those reduced prices because there is any insult implied to the dealer or chef or product creator, but because the deal attracted you to buy something that you might not have bought otherwise. A lot of people don't have a lot of extra money, but they'd still like to enjoy certain things, and they need to be frugal. I don't think that necessarily makes them sub-human, just this their reality when it comes to spending.
But I guess I'm hearing that the kind of men who can't afford full price are especially undesirable? If so, that's certainly a big factor and keeping the price up there will help to filter those types of customers out.
Katrine
09-04-2007, 10:39 AM
So I guess I don't understand what the disagreement is then. Now you are saying that some clubs already do this and you are comfortable with it, which doesn't completely jive with some of the posts that argue they'd never work for lower prices. But in any case, the question is, does it improve your earnings or not? If not, then it should be done away with. If it does, then do all dancers universally despise the increased income (even if means a lower price per dance)?
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. For example, let's use my last club. They had 2-4-1 from 12-2pm, as well as lunch specials. I did pretty well during those times. But mostly because guys would often pay full price for the dances. The specials were advertised, the customers just weren't listening.
Now, the custies that were aware of the special got their 2-4-1 and that's it. If the dance was regular price, they would have gotten one. That's what they were there for during lunch. So I just quickly worked that crowd and would do pretty well, usually making out with $100/per hour for pretty easy work.
Now, my club didn't have a happy hour dance special like the other Austin clubs. Its usually $10 dances from 5-7 (or 6-8?). It was no easier selling dances here than any other club. Aka, it was tough for me to sell them if I worked daytime, and it was end of shift. But if I had just started and was "fresh" and ready, I'd make about the same in my first 2 hours as if I had started during the day, about $100/per hour. So, ultimately, no difference.
Should clubs do away with dance specials? You aren't going to get any unbiased answers here, to be honest. In my experience, most strippers get annoyed at dance specials and don't give as good a dance. Human nature. It might be unfair that the dancer is pissed off to be discounted, but its going to happen.
yoda57us
09-04-2007, 03:11 PM
Two of my favorite clubs in Providence have had vastly different results from offering two for one specials. Club #1 runs two for $20 topless dances all day and night on Mondays and Tuesdays. The dancers pay no percentage to the house. The rest of the week topless dances are $25 each with $5 to the house for each song.
To be sure there are some dancers who will not work on two fer days but the ones that do work are making money. They are not cleaning up but they are doing well working early weekdays in the only club in Providence that is busy early in the week.
Club number 2 tried to implement two for one days a few years ago and only two or three dancers showed up for work during the dayshift on those days for the first month. They dropped the idea and it has never re-surfaced. Now, this club is slow on Mondays and Tuesdays but the girls who have regulars still make money and they make it at $25 a song.
Where do I go on Monday and Tuesday? Surprisingly, most of the time it's not the two for one club. I like the girls at the full price club better. Even when I do go to club #1 I do VIP dances which are full price.
IMHO you can either sell dances or you can't. Girls who can sell them can do it at full price all day long as long as they are willing to let some guys walk away and not go into panic mode or get nasty, lazy or both when a bad day happens.
The most successfull dancers I know look at their week or their month as a barometer of how they are doing not just one shift. It's OK to bitch a little over a bad night but not to the point where it effects your attitude during your next shift.
xdamage
09-04-2007, 04:28 PM
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
Gotcha, and that makes sense. I really wasn't suggesting anything sure-fire. There is a lot of variables including demographics, competition, and psychological factors. And really no way to predict the outcome with complete certainty. You either try new strategies or you don't, and assess the outcome after trying.
Should clubs do away with dance specials? You aren't going to get any unbiased answers here, to be honest. In my experience, most strippers get annoyed at dance specials and don't give as good a dance. Human nature. It might be unfair that the dancer is pissed off to be discounted, but its going to happen.
Sure, and that human factor is likely an important one.
crizgolfer
09-04-2007, 04:40 PM
Where do I go on Monday and Tuesday? Surprisingly, most of the time it's not the two for one club. I like the girls at the full price club better. Even when I do go to club #1 I do VIP dances which are full price.
I agree. I go to the place where I like the dancers best. Regardless of any price differences. I don't think most guys are that way though. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
bem401
09-04-2007, 04:57 PM
I would offer that the prices are probably supported by what the market will bear in any region and that if there were a better pricing scenario for that region that price schedule would be in effect. Around here, the price is usually $20-$25 per song and hasn't changed much. Also the clubs are significantly less busy than they were 5 years ago so a price increase makes no economic sense. A few years ago, the biggest club in the area tried to go to $30 a song ( with $10 to the house ) . They did this because their revenues were off and they thought they'd make up their perceived losses. No one accused these folks of being particularly bright. People stopped going and dancers started leaving. Within a month or 2, prices were back to their former level and the club was ( and still is ) trying to promote their customer appreciation by dance specials and other pointless nonsense.
The point is..... there might be customers looking for better dance prices and dancers looking for higher dance prices, but the market is what it is and one can either choose to participate in it or not.
jaizaine
09-04-2007, 10:11 PM
Market factors aside, the dancer has to be happy (moderately happy not excited) about the amount of financial compensation she is getting in return for providing an intimitate service.
Not many of us would be doing this type of work if it didn't pay well.
If MOST customers only bought $20 dances I would not be a stripper, I can guarantee you that. Luckily for me most guys spend much more.
Um, to the OP:
I don't think you realize is that what we are selling is OURSELVES. I find it insulting for you to suggest that a beautiful woman dancing naked for you is sometimes worth only $10, no matter what the time of day/season/busy-ness of the club. Yeah, on a dead day shift, I could sell dances for $5, and I probably would have made more than some of the crappiest days when I sat around for practically nobody. But I'd feel like devalued crap, because sharing myself like that is worth more. Have a little sense in regards to what you're talking about here.
salsa4ever
09-04-2007, 11:22 PM
From a purely economic standpoint, I think the market dynamics in the supply and demand for stripper services is such that strippers would make more money by having a higher price, rather than a lower price. I just don't see the demand for stripper services as being that elastic.
You could say there's a few segmented markets at work here. One being the 'conventional market' - i.e. what most girls on SW provide, an 'extras market', and a 'cheap-ass' market. In the conventional market I don't think demand is very responsive to price, and I don't think the cheap-ass market is particularly profitable.
I think the aggregate population of strippers would make more money if they charged $30 a dance. Make it $60 for 3 dances. Or $20 a dance if it's slow. At least there's some room to move at the higher price. You'd also have dancers being more motivated and better service levels.
Of course the problem is this could never actually be implemented, because who's going to raise their price first when the prevailing price is $20? Classic prisoner's dilemma situation here.
britt244
09-04-2007, 11:29 PM
^thats not true though. i worked at a club with $30 dances and thats what i got used to. fully clothed, the guys couldnt touch. and i sold them pretty easily.
i worked at another with $60 nude dances. guys couldnt touch. slightly harder to sell but it wasnt impossible.
my club now has $20 or $30 dances. i sell more $30 dances.
and why, if you could sell dances for 30, would you sell 2 for 60? that just doesnt make sense. thats back to the 2 for 1s, except its buy 2 get one free. no. no no no and no.
bem401
09-05-2007, 05:40 AM
^thats not true though. i worked at a club with $30 dances and thats what i got used to. fully clothed, the guys couldnt touch. and i sold them pretty easily.
i worked at another with $60 nude dances. guys couldnt touch. slightly harder to sell but it wasnt impossible.
my club now has $20 or $30 dances. i sell more $30 dances.
and why, if you could sell dances for 30, would you sell 2 for 60? that just doesnt make sense. thats back to the 2 for 1s, except its buy 2 get one free. no. no no no and no.
First, I think you mean 3 for $60, right?
Given that, I still think that you need to consider that guys go into the club planning to spend $X on dances, not buy Y dances. Your goal is to get as much of the guys' money as you can.
If the club was slow, are you saying it makes no sense to make $60 for 9 minutes worth of dancing because you are holding out for the case where you only have to dance for 6 minutes for that same $60? All in the next 10 minutes? I really don't understand that thinking. To me the sensible thing to do is let the guy have the extra song, take his $60, and then go back to looking for $30 dances. No one suggests you should permanently lower your dance prices. If the club was jam-packed, you wouldn't have to do this, you might even be able to charge a premium, but when it is slow, it makes sense to bend a bit on pricing.
britt244
09-05-2007, 05:43 AM
yeah, i meant 3.
and no no no n o no no no. that is all i have left to say on this thread. a big fat NO. if a guy only wants to spend 60 when he goes to the club, fine, he can have as many dances as that will buy him. i will NOT do anything for free or discount it. what is so hard to understand about the fact that i am barely dressed, grinding against a random crotch? other than the fact that ive said it before so seriously why dont you get that?, that should be common sense.
xdamage
09-05-2007, 06:20 AM
...But I'd feel like devalued crap, because sharing myself like that is worth more. ...
This is a key point that has come up several times (in various ways) and of course makes sense. Where most services and things are emotionally and physically neutral (or nearly so), stripping is not, so I can see how a dancer would just prefer to have nothing vs lowering prices.
purceja
09-05-2007, 08:13 AM
Hi everybody, I am still just getting used to this site, so I do nto have many posts, so don't be too harsh.
Is the point, how to increase mileage or how to maximize the revenue of dancers. I think it is clear that discounting the ld is not the right way to go as ld are luxury items. Do you discount a ferrari? a Jag? People who want these have to pay the price. If a ferrari was discounted and everyone had one it would lose a lot of its appeal over a longer period.
I think the way to maximize dancer revenue is to have an auction with the reserve price being 20? So the high end girls, on busy nights could increase their personal price depending on demand.
jaizaine
09-05-2007, 11:13 AM
^^
have u ever been inside a SC? Sorry but that auction idea is just weird and would not work.
There is nowhere in the thread that mentions mileage so I dont get why you brought that up.
Casual Observer
09-05-2007, 12:20 PM
In my experience, most strippers get annoyed at dance specials and don't give as good a dance.
This is why the 2-for-1 specials don't work for me as a customer; I'd rather not get the embittered half-assed lapdance.
bem401
09-05-2007, 01:27 PM
what is so hard to understand about the fact that i am barely dressed, grinding against a random crotch?
Nobody is failing to understand to understand that. The thread is entitled [B]Pricing wisely[B]. Suggestions are being made to maximize earnings, not minmize self-esteem issues.
cameron_keys
09-05-2007, 01:47 PM
Nobody is failing to understand to understand that. The thread is entitled [b]Pricing wisely[b]. Suggestions are being made to maximize earnings, not minmize self-esteem issues.
In a strip club they are not always mutually exclusive.
If you dont want to buy a car it isnt personal....but this is about US..our bodies. You arent saying a product isnt worth it..you are saying SHE isnt worth it.
WhenI am offering to get naked for someone...having themask for a DISCOUNT is unbelievably insulting. I'd rather have nothing then that.
No, she made a very good point. How the hell is that NOT worth 20 measly $? If you're that cheap, I'm betting you're not the type to buy twice as many dances if we slashed the price in half. Many girls have complained about $10 in certain places in the Southwest and they don't seem to be raking in the dough.
besides, th eperson who made the ferrari/luxury goods point was spot on. Having a beautiful naked woman dance naked for you should be seen as quite a luxury.
I can't tell you how annoying it is when guys try to haggle a price and say "well, wouldn't you rather have $15 then nothing? NO! I'd rather walk away and find someone who's got a modicrum of decency and isn't broke/cheap. Besides, it's well known that guys who argue about the price of dances are likely to be either a complete and total waste of time, or significantly more trouble then they are worth. I'm guessing the folks who are arguing for cheaper dances here are those same guys. And frankly, you're not the clientelle we want to encourage.
bem401
09-05-2007, 02:19 PM
I understand both your points, CK and Fifi. I thought the theme of the thread was how to price dances in such a way as to maximize income. I agree it is inappropriate for a guy to try to chisel the price down, but I think it makes sense for the girl to consider offering an inducement when she deems it necessary. Certain girls I know will offer lower prices or a longer time when the club is dead and their alternative is making nothing for the next 30 minutes or so. I am talking about her naming her price and the guy can take it or leave it. And such offers generally involve multiple songs.
Girls shouldn't take things personally when dealing with the guys in here anymore than a guy should take it personally when confronted by poor behavior on the part of the girls. It comes with the territory when you enter the SC environment. I know that is sometimes easier said than done however.
Also, this thread was speaking in generalities about customers and dancers, not about us individually so trying to infer I must be cheap is sort of non-productive. To be honest, I was speaking as I would speak to one of my dancer friends looking to increase her money, not how I could get more for my money.
britt244
09-05-2007, 02:26 PM
Nobody is failing to understand to understand that. The thread is entitled [B]Pricing wisely[B]. Suggestions are being made to maximize earnings, not minmize self-esteem issues.
youre right, it has nothing to do with self esteem issues. and neither did anything i said.
nor do i think that selling dances for less would maximize my earnings, but that's been discussed already.
bem401
09-05-2007, 02:45 PM
youre right, it has nothing to do with self esteem issues. and neither did anything i said.
Well you did bring up the issue of being nearly naked and grinding on random crotches in a way that made clear your distaste for it.
Nowhere did I recommend an across the board price cut , but sometimes one has to give a little to get a little. For example, I give both golf lessons and math instruction one-on-one. I get $50 a lesson for golf but will do a series of 5 for $200 and I feel great when I book the block of lessons. I also give math tutoring at a rate of $30/hr. or $50 for 2 hours. If I had time to kill between golf lessons, I'd discount my price by as much as a half to make something during the lull.
britt244
09-05-2007, 02:52 PM
Well you did bring up the issue of being nearly naked and grinding on random crotches in a way that made clear your distaste for it.
no. i didnt. i brought it up to emphasize that what we are doing for that money is worth MORE than we actually make, and i certainly wouldnt lessen that amount. for anything. like other girls said.. if i could make $100 by doing 10 dances in a night, or go home with $40 for doing 2, i'd rather do the 40. i would not want to feel like iworked harder for less.
Jenny
09-05-2007, 03:08 PM
youre right, it has nothing to do with self esteem issues. and neither did anything i said.
Well you did bring up the issue of being nearly naked and grinding on random crotches in a way that made clear your distaste for it.
Feeling that one's pride or dignity has been offended is not the same as having low self-esteem. Just saying. Saying that it is offensive to my pride when a guy asks me to do 4 dances for $20 or asks me to sleep with him for $75 has nothing to do with the height of my self-esteem. Obviously, neither does simply finding some activities distasteful.
I'm not sure why the guys here are focusing on this whole "break down your pride and self-entitlement issue" and entirely ignoring the fact that girls have pretty uniformly said that, entirely apart from that, there is not more money to be had by the proposed method.
Actually, I do have a theory on why guys are focusing on that, don't I?
bem401
09-05-2007, 03:15 PM
no. i didnt. i brought it up to emphasize that what we are doing for that money is worth MORE than we actually make, and i certainly wouldnt lessen that amount. for anything. like other girls said.. if i could make $100 by doing 10 dances in a night, or go home with $40 for doing 2, i'd rather do the 40. i would not want to feel like iworked harder for less.
First, the value of a dance has to be agreed upon by two parties to have any meaning. It has to have the same value to both the customer and the dancer. The dance has no value until someone purchases it.
Second, girls offer deals left and right when things are slow in the club that they would never think of doing when it is busy because when it is busy, they don't have to. The bottom line is, IRL, sometimes you have to work harder for less due to circumstances beyond your control. It has nothing to do with the person per se. These rules apply to everyone, not just dancers.
Bem401,
Perhaps I was to hasty with my post. I should not have accused you personally as being cheap, I think I meant to direct that part more openly, but I should have clarified. What I meant was that the guys who come into a strip club, have a problem with the price (either because they see it's slow and think they can take advantage, or for whatever other reason) and think they can barter are pretty much guaranteed to make their asshole nature known in other ways. As has been said, these are usually the ones who think they deserve "extra mileage" from their cheap ass dance as well. Bargaining with them only encourages them to return to the club and continue to try this, or tell their friends to not accept the given price and push for cheaper. Most dancers realize pretty on in their career that more often than not they are not worth it, and are there to be avoided.
Lapaholic
09-05-2007, 05:40 PM
^^^ I agree with Fifi
I am a consultant - and people pay me for my time. Really they do!!! When I first started, I would lower my hourly rate to get the business. And almost without fail, I regretted that decision. If the custy was too cheap to afford my hourly rate and I lowered it to get the business, they almost certainly nickeled and dimed me for everthing else i charged them. THey almost always were a loser customer.
Now there are certain customers that I have long standing relationships and charge a lot of hours, they normally do not see price increases year over year in my hourly rate so in that sense they get a break. But they are good customers, they pay on time and they dont hassle me about my billings.
I think the same is true for dancers. Maybe u cut a break for your good customers once in a while but otherwise you should maintain your price. If not, a customer will come back expecting the same deal. Makes sense to me.
britt244
09-05-2007, 06:02 PM
First, the value of a dance has to be agreed upon by two parties to have any meaning. It has to have the same value to both the customer and the dancer. The dance has no value until someone purchases it.
Second, girls offer deals left and right when things are slow in the club that they would never think of doing when it is busy because when it is busy, they don't have to. The bottom line is, IRL, sometimes you have to work harder for less due to circumstances beyond your control. It has nothing to do with the person per se. These rules apply to everyone, not just dancers.
sigh. you dont get it. they dont apply to me nor will they ever because i. do. not. cut. deals. please read what jenny said about how this does not help us make more money! and i'm not going to argue with you. i dont give 2 shits what other dancers do when its slow. guess what? other dancers might offer a $20 hand job when its slow because hey, its helping them make money! it is *always* in my control that i *always* get as much money as i possibly can out of a customer, and that is never less than the set price at the club. please please please understand that. how have you been on this board and not seen the many times that girls have said that the second a guy tries to negotiate price, they walk away?
and as for the whole "there is no value until it is purchased".. ok. dont buy a dance then. like i said. i'd rather a customer not buy a dance than me lower my price. and there is NOTHING you can say to change that.
jaizaine
09-05-2007, 09:44 PM
First, the value of a dance has to be agreed upon by two parties to have any meaning. It has to have the same value to both the customer and the dancer. The dance has no value until someone purchases it.
Second, girls offer deals left and right when things are slow in the club that they would never think of doing when it is busy because when it is busy, they don't have to. The bottom line is, IRL, sometimes you have to work harder for less due to circumstances beyond your control. It has nothing to do with the person per se. These rules apply to everyone, not just dancers.
This is incorrect. It might apply in other sectors but it does not apply in the SC.
The value of the dance is usually set by the club. Girls who cut deals, if found out by other girls or management will get into trouble for undercutting.
Second, any dancer who is half decent will be offended by the bargaining and just find another customer who doesn't mind paying full price.
Personally I have never understood how guys who try to bargain are not embarrassed? Why would you want to look like a cheap, scumbag who can't afford the full priced dance?
If you do happen to get a girl who is desperate enough to cut a deal with you BELIEVE ME when I say you will be getting a cut-price quality dance.
Here is the process:
- custie gripes about cost of dance
- dancer is instantly put in a bad mood or at least off side
- custie gets exactly what he paid for - a bargain basement dance.
salsa4ever
09-06-2007, 02:09 AM
^thats not true though. i worked at a club with $30 dances and thats what i got used to. fully clothed, the guys couldnt touch. and i sold them pretty easily.
i worked at another with $60 nude dances. guys couldnt touch. slightly harder to sell but it wasnt impossible.
my club now has $20 or $30 dances. i sell more $30 dances.
and why, if you could sell dances for 30, would you sell 3 (edit) for 60? that just doesnt make sense. thats back to the 2 for 1s, except its buy 2 get one free. no. no no no and no.
God, this is escalating in to full scale e-drama. Still, as you specifically addressed my post I'll reply to your original statement.
Can I clarify whether there were other clubs around the area where you worked when you sold your $30 and $60 dances, and what price were they selling dances for? My point was that if you have clubs located close to each other (lets say Kings Cross in Sydney as an example), it's near impossible for one club to unilaterally raise the price.
I believe you when you say you had no problem selling the dances (I don't have any basis to disbelieve you), but I am intrigued as to how that club still attracted customers. I'm hypothesizing either:
1. it's located far away from clubs selling $20 dances
2. it has some distinguishing feature like being a posh club for the rich and famous, and premium everything.
Your last comment is interesting.
Let's just assume the status quo is $20 dances. As I see it the dancer only benefits from an increase in price to $30, so that a "special" on a slow night of a 3-for-2 only put them back in their original position. I don't get your argument. By the way, I'm thinking of a club-institutionalized 3-for-2 with the higher price on the slow night, not an individual deal-cutting thing.
Well, I do, actually. You're saying that $20 is OK if that's the price set by the club, but setting a price of $30 and then offering 3 for $60 is not OK. Because you are absolutely and utterly repulsed (I chose strong words to reflect all those "no"s) by any concept of a discount on your services under any circumstances, regardless of the opening price.
I agree that cutting deals is not usually a very good method of making more money. I'll even go as far as saying cutting deals is never going to make more money in the long run, assuming a starting price of $20 a dance, which I think is already too low. And I think that a discount of more than nominal proportions (10%) if instigated privately between dancer and customer runs the risk of creating an anarchy in the strip club where every girl is undercutting every other. But an objection to cutting ANY deals of ANY amount PER SE, is something I find economically absurd.
britt244
09-06-2007, 03:56 AM
God, this is escalating in to full scale e-drama. Still, as you specifically addressed my post I'll reply to your original statement.
that is because you guys dont get it. read the damn site and you'll see that we dont agree with this nor will you ever say those magic words that will convince us. and if you think this is drama.. i kinda feel bad for you.
Can I clarify whether there were other clubs around the area where you worked when you sold your $30 and $60 dances, and what price were they selling dances for? My point was that if you have clubs located close to each other (lets say Kings Cross in Sydney as an example), it's near impossible for one club to unilaterally raise the price.
I believe you when you say you had no problem selling the dances (I don't have any basis to disbelieve you), but I am intrigued as to how that club still attracted customers. I'm hypothesizing either:
1. it's located far away from clubs selling $20 dances
2. it has some distinguishing feature like being a posh club for the rich and famous, and premium everything.
no, actually both those clubs were in baltimore. the $60 dance was nude at the one place, and the $30 dance was fully clothed. and ive worked at other places where they were 30 and clothed, 25 and clothed, the prices vary. and they are all very close to each other. and yes, if a club has a set price, i cant complain about that, now can i? i said i would never accept less than $20 for my dance. if i can get more because thats how it is at the club, great! i would never work at a place where i got less.
Your last comment is interesting.
Let's just assume the status quo is $20 dances. As I see it the dancer only benefits from an increase in price to $30, so that a "special" on a slow night of a 3-for-2 only put them back in their original position. I don't get your argument. By the way, I'm thinking of a club-institutionalized 3-for-2 with the higher price on the slow night, not an individual deal-cutting thing.
Well, I do, actually. You're saying that $20 is OK if that's the price set by the club, but setting a price of $30 and then offering 3 for $60 is not OK. Because you are absolutely and utterly repulsed (I chose strong words to reflect all those "no"s) by any concept of a discount on your services under any circumstances, regardless of the opening price.
i didnt think that was how you meant it. if a clubs price is 20 and you sell for 30 anyway, then 3 for 60 makes sense. but if the clubs price is 30 and you sell 3 for 60, i dont care if thats what other girls work for at other places because thats the norm, i wont cut the price. sorry.
I agree that cutting deals is not usually a very good method of making more money. I'll even go as far as saying cutting deals is never going to make more money in the long run, assuming a starting price of $20 a dance, which I think is already too low. And I think that a discount of more than nominal proportions (10%) if instigated privately between dancer and customer runs the risk of creating an anarchy in the strip club where every girl is undercutting every other. But an objection to cutting ANY deals of ANY amount PER SE, is something I find economically absurd.
so find it absurd all you want. obviously we are not going to agree on this. youre NOT concerned about us making more, you're concerned with GETTING more. dont even try to say otherwise. arent you the one who keeps saying 'quite a bit of contact' like that has any importance to this conversation?
James Bond
09-06-2007, 04:54 AM
This is a case of "you get what you paid for." $20 per lap dance seems like a fair price to me, and $10 for a table dance is fair, too.
Bargaining down happens in many different areas of the economy, and the person who gets bargained down usually gets annoyed but may go along with it to beat the competition.
Supply and demand works in buying and selling some goods and sevices, but things like lap dances, surgery, dentistry, or some other service where the service is very personal and the quality of the service depends on the mood of the service provider, are services where you would rather pay full price to get the best service.
I would never ask a surgeon for a lower price on my surgery because I don't want the surgeon to be annoyed with me and make a "mistake" during my surgery. In this case, I'll pay the full price because I want the best possible outcome.
Same idea with lap dances. Haggling would ruin the mood for myself and the dancer and would destroy the spontaneity and fun of the dances, and she would probably give me shitty lap dances as a result.
$20 per dance seems to be the threshold for good service; anything lower would reduce the quality of that service.
bem401
09-06-2007, 06:08 AM
Maybe I am misinterpreting the purpose of this thread but I do not recall ever advocating that girls allow men to negotiate down the price of your dances and/or time. I've never tried to do that and don't recall many instances where I have even been offered discounts.
The fact of the matter is that your services are worth more when the demand for them is higher. The same as in every other business. The laws of economics don't cease to apply in a SC. Lap is a consultant and can charge a premium for his services when there is high demand for them. If whatever business he consults for slows down, so does his ability to bill at a premium. It has nothing to do with him. Now, he can choose not to consult with certain parties at a rate he doesn't find acceptable as is certainly his prerogative but it ultimately will cost him some money over time if he does too much of that. Think of someone who does home repairs for example. When there is a boom in home repairs, those tradesmen charge a lot because they figure they'll find someone willing to pay their price. As a result, some people may choose not to have work done. When the business slows, the prices come down. It's Economics 101.
LD's are a luxury item, no doubt about it, but luxury items don't always command the same price. A few years back, everyone wanted to join country clubs ( a luxury item for sure ) and the clubs charged hefty 5 and 6 figure initiation fees to join. Now there is less demand and the same clubs can be joined for a fraction of what it used to cost and in many cases no initiation fee at all.
I understand that there is an emotional investment made by the girls working in the clubs and there is an aversion to feeling like one is devaluing herself by discounting. Speaking dispassionately, I just think it makes sense to make as much as possible for the time put in. You try to make the most you can given the conditions under which you find yourself. If you decide not to budge on pricing for whatever reason, you have that right.
Finally, Jaz, I know the clubs generally set the price for a LD, but until a dancer and a customer agree to the transaction, it doesn't put $$$ in anyone's pocket or a girl on anyone's lap. And I doubt there be much disputing that all the clubs really care about is their cut of the fee.
gingerlee
09-06-2007, 08:51 AM
I understand that there is an emotional investment made by the girls working in the clubs and there is an aversion to feeling like one is devaluing herself by discounting. Speaking dispassionately, I just think it makes sense to make as much as possible for the time put in. You try to make the most you can given the conditions under which you find yourself. If you decide not to budge on pricing for whatever reason, you have that right.
*Sigh* Of course we go to work to make the most money as we can each shift, but we don't want to feel like we are at a flea market playing 'Let's Make a Deal'. We are human beings, not cars or country club memberships.
As a feature I normally charge DOUBLE what the house girls charge in every club I go to. So if dances are $25 I charge at least $50 per song. Nobody that gets a dance complains that my dances are double the normal price, and the few people that try to strike a bargain with me get shut down before they can blink. They all understand that if they want something 'special', they are going to pay a premium for it. Apply the same practice to house girls' prices and you'll see that most of us want to make all the money we can, but we don't want to feel like we have to offer bargain prices to make it.
bem401
09-06-2007, 09:21 AM
*Sigh* Of course we go to work to make the most money as we can each shift, but we don't want to feel like we are at a flea market playing 'Let's Make a Deal'. We are human beings, not cars or country club memberships.
As a feature I normally charge DOUBLE what the house girls charge in every club I go to. So if dances are $25 I charge at least $50 per song. Nobody that gets a dance complains that my dances are double the normal price, and the few people that try to strike a bargain with me get shut down before they can blink. They all understand that if they want something 'special', they are going to pay a premium for it. Apply the same practice to house girls' prices and you'll see that most of us want to make all the money we can, but we don't want to feel like we have to offer bargain prices to make it.
Again, we are back to discussing guys trying to finagle a discount when that is not what I am talking about at all, though I can see how the debate goes astray. I thought we were discussing strategies to increase earnings in the face of lower than desired demand. I am not suggesting anybody should do anything other than dismiss guys looking for a bargain. I am just saying I don't see the value in holding out for higher prices when conditions dictate otherwise.
I am also not complaining about dance prices. Guys who feel a need to complain about the cost of being in a stripclub ought not to be there. I am merely trying to point out ways to maybe keep the cash flowing when it otherwise might stop. Everyone is certainly free to do what works best for them and I never suggested otherwise.
bem401
09-06-2007, 12:27 PM
Well I have just returned from lunch with a dancer friend who made a clear, cogent, business-based argument for why she wouldn't discount dances. She said she feared it might set a dangerous precedent in that that guy might look for the same discount the next time he visited and then his friends might look for it, etc, etc, etc. Eventually the discount becomes the new price and that's bad for business in the long run. Now that does make sense to me, and I honestly hadn't considered that as a possibility before.. So maybe there is something to be said for holding one's ground.
britt244
09-06-2007, 01:03 PM
^ im sorry that my answer wasnt good enough for you.
dear customers,
please stop trying to tell us how to do our job. we know what we're doing. a dancer didnt start this thread asking for advice, so there's no need to give it.
love, britt
I thought it would be obvious that once the customers caught on that we were open to adjusting our prices, they'd think the door was open for bargaining all the time. I think that's why people kept mentioning guys who try to bargain down- because it seems there would be an obvious correlation between one encouraging the other.
We dancer's know this because we deal with this all the time when we work in a club where one or more girls are open to bargaining. "But Amber gives me a dance for $15! Why should I buy one from you if you won't give me the same deal?"
miabella
09-06-2007, 03:52 PM
Well I have just returned from lunch with a dancer friend who made a clear, cogent, business-based argument for why she wouldn't discount dances. She said she feared it might set a dangerous precedent in that that guy might look for the same discount the next time he visited and then his friends might look for it, etc, etc, etc. Eventually the discount becomes the new price and that's bad for business in the long run. Now that does make sense to me, and I honestly hadn't considered that as a possibility before.. So maybe there is something to be said for holding one's ground.
dude, this has been stated on SW approximately 1218921937372832738237827382378283278382 times by various dancers and sometimes customers. i find it quite curious that you just now received an identical epiphany from a stripper 'friend' offline. it's an objection to price-haggling so standard it should be a damned sticky somewhere on one of these forums.
Seems to me the ladies generally are saying: "Don't ask me to discount my price. It's insulting."
Seems to me the guys generally are saying: "I'm pleased when a dancer offers me a discounted price."
May I cite a real world example? When I was on vacation several months ago in Florida, I met a dancer I liked. At some point she asked me if I was ready for some fun which of course I took to mean a dance. I asked her how much. She responded "Well the regular price is $25 topless, $30 for nude. How about two nudes for $50?" I accepted the 2 for 50. And later did another 2 for 50. My brother-in-law was with me and got some dances from several of the other strippers. And paid $30 each. So I know that her claim of $30 being the norm was true.
I don't know why she offered the lesser price. Maybe I looked like a cheap ass ;) I guess my philosophical question is should I have insisted on paying the higher price? Or was I acting as a wise consumer by not looking a gift horse in the mouth?
As a side note, I tipped her a $20 before leaving. So she did wind up getting her full price indirectly. But, of course, she didn't know that would happen when she made the offer.
FBR
velvet
09-06-2007, 04:07 PM
just to throw this in here. my club charges 30 per dance. period. it's been that way for 8 years and we sell the crap out of them.
no specials or special days. no drink specials for that matter.
bem401
09-06-2007, 04:11 PM
dude, this has been stated on SW approximately 1218921937372832738237827382378283278382 times by various dancers and sometimes customers. i find it quite curious that you just now received an identical epiphany from a stripper 'friend' offline. it's an objection to price-haggling so standard it should be a damned sticky somewhere on one of these forums.
dudette, i have not scoured SW for posts that might have been made previously and that reasoning was not put forth anywhere in this particular discussion. I asked my friend if she would ever considering offering a discount up front if business were really really bad and she said no for the reasons I stated. That made sense to me. The posts I recall here did very little to substantiate why it would backfire, just that they didn't like the idea of discounting. My comments had zero to do with price haggling as I didn't think the thread was about that. I thought my comments were clear. My personal position is if I like the girl' I'll pay her price. If I don't like her, I don't want her to dance for me at all, and I'm not going to waste my time or her's trying to save a few bucks by haggling. If the money means that much to me, I probably should be elsewhere.
Jenny
09-06-2007, 04:32 PM
dudette, i have not scoured SW for posts that might have been made previously and that reasoning was not put forth anywhere in this particular discussion. I asked my friend if she would ever considering offering a discount up front if business were really really bad and she said no for the reasons I stated.
What do you think that girls mean when they say it will cultivate an undesirable customer?
SportsWriter2
09-06-2007, 05:39 PM
I don't know why she offered the lesser price.
Because, as they say in Renaissance City, you were "cute walking in the door."
I guess my philosophical question is should I have insisted on paying the higher price? Or was I acting as a wise consumer by not looking a gift horse in the mouth?
She wanted you to feel special. You were thoughtful to accept her offer.
Leaving money on the table is a very effective method of increasing income over a longer term. I do it all the time in my profession.
salsa4ever
09-06-2007, 10:00 PM
so find it absurd all you want. obviously we are not going to agree on this. youre NOT concerned about us making more, you're concerned with GETTING more. dont even try to say otherwise. arent you the one who keeps saying 'quite a bit of contact' like that has any importance to this conversation?
OK, we'll agree to disagree.
But no, I'm not the one. I just have to clarify that because that's just totally untrue. I don't know whether you have me mixed up with someone else. My only previous post was where I sugested dancers would make more if they actually increased prices and a positive side effect of the price increase is that they would have more room to maneuver if they felt a need to offer a discount for whatever reason.
bem401
09-07-2007, 05:15 AM
What do you think that girls mean when they say it will cultivate an undesirable customer?
Well I think it is fairly obvious that a desirable customer would be one with more money than sense.
I have been offered "deals" a few times and accepted once or twice and it never occurred to me that I therefore had the right to get the same deal on other occasions under different circumstances. I also never spread the word that I was getting preferential treatment ( for lack of a better term ). But if you girls tell me that is what happens when you start discounting, I have no reason to disbelieve you.
britt244
09-07-2007, 05:46 AM
OK, we'll agree to disagree.
But no, I'm not the one. I just have to clarify that because that's just totally untrue. I don't know whether you have me mixed up with someone else. My only previous post was where I sugested dancers would make more if they actually increased prices and a positive side effect of the price increase is that they would have more room to maneuver if they felt a need to offer a discount for whatever reason.
youre right, i went back and read it and that wasnt you. but you DID say that you find it absurd that someone would say they would never give a discount. i cant even muster the energy to get worked up about this thread again. so let me say this as calmly as possible.. why should i discount my body? because thats basically what it is.
mollyzmoon
09-07-2007, 08:11 AM
I'm not defending myself for being occasionally weak enough to engage in a three dance for $60 dealy at work, but please don't assume this means I'd give a $20 hand job when it's slow. I may not have the same boundaries as I should have, but I'm not completely boundary-less.
And I mean, maybe it's because the clubs I work at have a dire lack of good, worthy customers...trust me, if I held out for only the savoury ones I'd be making less than $200 a night. Trust me. I'm not a pro, but please take my word on that one. I still don't think I'm being an idiot for agreeing to 6 dances/ $100 on very slow nights, on rare occasions. Like I said, I don't offer them, but if this is the only customer in the room, and this is all he's willing to do (when I say rare occasion, I mean that I've done this all of 4-5 times in the two years I've been dancing, so I don't do it as a RULE)...then yeah, and I will argue that on said very particular circumstances, I'm leaving with more cash than I otherwise would have.
I still see the validity in what everyone else is saying, and I might add that I do feel a bit of pride when I do the discounted 6 for 5, and just maybe that sixth dance is an airdance that my club only charges $10 for anyway...but still, this doesn't mean in anyway that I'm the kind of girl who'd do ANYTHING for $20. I think you can contextualize the situation a bit. But I'm no Kantian.
Phil-W
09-11-2007, 11:18 AM
Interesting thread.
Ain't met a dancer yet that likes to offer discounts, but have seen dances discounted on a quiet evening when the alternative is to go home short of target and struggle to pay the bills.
Got plenty of sympathy for the dancers on this thread - your working environment can be pretty stressful and only better than average earnings seem to offer recompense.
Gotta say though (in the UK at least) dancer earnings have been falling steadily for a number of years, which does increase the pressure to discount on quiet nights.
Apart from customer numbers/spend being down, there's a reason for the lower earnings - and that's the venues making more out of dancers.
* More dancers on a shift = more shift fees for venue and money spread thinner for dancer.
* Larger cut being taken from lap dance prices. Several years ago a lot of venues didn't take a cut, just stage fees.
* longer hours on a shift = lower earnings per hour.
Be interested to hear if the dancers in this thread think management policy at the venues they work at has been cutting into their earnings.
Phil.