View Full Version : Pricing wisely
britt244
09-11-2007, 12:43 PM
* More dancers on a shift = more shift fees for venue and money spread thinner for dancer.
* Larger cut being taken from lap dance prices. Several years ago a lot of venues didn't take a cut, just stage fees.
* longer hours on a shift = lower earnings per hour.
Be interested to hear if the dancers in this thread think management policy at the venues they work at has been cutting into their earnings.
at my club, nope. these thing dont even apply. there are now less dancers on most nights. they made us redo our schedules, spread the girls out more, and wouldnt let us work both fri and sat unless we worked a good day. so i traded my thurs to tuesday. they fired some girls, too. there are still a lot of girls some nights, but i never really thought there were too many in the last few weeks since they changed scheduling.
the cut from the dances annoys me. but that isnt going to change. ive only worked at one club out of 7 that didnt take a cut. some have been worse than others. its not too bad now. ($5 out of a $20 reg dance, $10 out of a $30 topless.) there's no house fee so i'm not complaining. i worked at clubs that had house fees AND dance cuts.
my shift is 8-2ish/3ish. we call last dancer around 1/1:15 on weeknights and all thats avail. is lapdances. if you arent buying, you have to leave. same thing on weekends, its between 2 & 2:30 and then only lap dances. we can leave when we want when last dancer is called. this is again, a shorter shift than most clubs i've worked.
mollyzmoon
09-11-2007, 01:56 PM
I find that I make very, very closely almost the same per hour, no matter how many hours I work. Maybe I am lucky to have clubs with people in there earlier on as well, but that's just how it is. When I work 7 hours, I DO make more (on average) than when I work 5 hours.
I was re-reading this thread, and noticed one customer made a very good point. "If I walked into a club that sold $12-15 dances, I'd wonder what kind of club I walked into."
I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this. When I was in a marketing class years ago in high school, I talked to someone who had worked for Saks. He said the high cost of the goods there was important. It made people value them more. Wouldn't the strip club experience seem less glamorous, less exciting, less of a luxurious experience, and just overall a lot more cheap and and mundane if dances were $10 instead of $20, even if it was only half the time (say, during the day)? And if it is less exciting and glamorous, something that any guy can do any day with the change left in his pocket, wouldn't that make it less appealing? Thoughts, anyone?
hearts
09-11-2007, 03:02 PM
I'd rather not sell dances at all than sell to a bunch of cheapos. I'm worth full price and more. If you don't like it, tough shit. If we got a dead crowd full of broke lameo's there to see how much they can get away with for the least amount of money, that's fine. I'll read a book in the back. There will be someone who will spend on me, and it only takes one guy. I'm not desperate enough to grind on someone for twelve dollars, sorry.
I totally agree. On top of that, when some girls lower their prices, it could force ALL of us to. AND THAT SUCKS. After chatting up a customer, the last thing I want to hear from him when I try to sell a dance is, "Oh, well so-and-so says she's doing 2 for 1's, aren't you?" Fuck all of that. Girls who undersell themselves need to gain the mentality that they are worth more than that. Don't sell yourself short.
hearts
09-11-2007, 03:06 PM
FURTHERMORE...it is the CLUB's responsibility to get more people in on slow nights, not mine through "competitive dance pricing". Offer drink or menu specials, do a theme night, drop the cover charge, advertise.
CosmicCandy
09-11-2007, 04:19 PM
I wonder how clubs arrive at prices for lap dances. It seems the going rate is $20 or $25 for a song. If that's the price and the dancers are busy, then the price is right or maybe even too low. But I have been in clubs where the price is $25 and no one at all is buying dances. I bet if the price were $12 or $15, the dancers would be busy. I went to a club lately where the dance price was $12. I bought one dance, then five more from the same dancer. If the price had been $25 I might have just settled for generous stage tipping. Why not try to arrive at a price that gets customers to spend instead of just trying to charge the "going rate"? Price it right and more dances will be sold and the dancers will earn more.
I do understand your theories of general supply vs demand however, economics has other variables. If you always give 2-4-1s during these periods then you will decrease the overall value in general. Those gentlemen that are looking for bargains will be coming in while it is busy and expecting the same treatment. Others will see that they are not getting the 2-4-1s and demand a cheaper dance as well. (word of price does get around). Then ultimately you will come in and say half off of the 2-4-1 and get $5 dances.
It is a downward spiral that has created problems with our general economy of our country. Think about what illegal immigrants do to general wages along with off shoring as well.
It exploits the desperate and needy.
I actually got ripped off from a customer because girls were giving him 2-4-1s and when I said the full amount I had to freaking haggle with him becuase at least 2 chicks did that for him. We didn't confirm it "oh yeah half off for you cheap perv!" He only gave me 60% and oops his mistake he came on my freaking thigh!!!! Freaking asshole. Then he decided to say sorry and make it up to me by me giving him 8 more dances for the remainder. So I would be giving him almost 3-4-1!!!!
But really why would you only do generous stage tipping if you paid $60 for 5 lap dances? You could have gotten 1 or 2 dances and tipped the stage. I am sorry but if you are looking for that much of a deal, you probably weren't tipping the stage generously. Like the dude that comes in and says he is giving me a money shower and throws 3 bucks at me on stage!
I have worked at clubs where lapdances ranged from $15-$30 and the $15 club wasn't busy at all. The club had sleazy chicks working there. The $20-$30 dances, I made the same at different clubs. Typically $30 have a house cut of $10.
This is really a sore topic for dancers.
Phil-W
09-12-2007, 10:28 AM
When I was in a marketing class years ago in high school, I talked to someone who had worked for Saks. He said the high cost of the goods there was important. It made people value them more. Wouldn't the strip club experience seem less glamorous, less exciting, less of a luxurious experience, and just overall a lot more cheap and and mundane if dances were $10 instead of $20, even if it was only half the time (say, during the day)? And if it is less exciting and glamorous, something that any guy can do any day with the change left in his pocket, wouldn't that make it less appealing? Thoughts, anyone?
The coin you're selling is nudity, and its value is related to its scarcity.
If striptease was rare and difficult to access it would command a far better premium than it does now. Conversely, as there are now more alternative ways of viewing nudity (webcams, DVD's, etc) the coinage is becoming devalued. There are also (IMHO) more strip venues about than there were 10 years ago, so its easier to get a lap dance.
As nudity/striptease has become more commonplace, its shock value has gone. Whereas 10 years ago, a lap dance in itself was an erotic experience, now it seems more commonplace.
As customers, we go to a strip club to be titilated, and if nudity has lost its shock value, then some will seek other forms of titilation. I think that's one reason why extras are becoming more prevalent.
Striptease becoming more commonplace is also possibly the reason why dances have remained stuck at $20 or $25 for a fair few years now. If nudity were less common, then presumably dancers would be able to charge a higher price per dance?
One of the sharpest divides between dancer and customer is over the question of pricing. A dancer (naturally) seeks to maximise her income and a customer (equally naturally) seeks to get as much entertainment as he can for his $$$'s.
The original question was whether 2-4-1's helped dancer's incomes or not.
I'd say only in very specific circumstances, say when a club is consistantly dead. There it might bring in customers who wouldn't otherwise come in and spend benefiting the dancers.
However, 2-4-1's can also be the thin end of the wedge - in effect devaluing the currency. Once it's known 2-4-1's are available, I'm sure there's a temptation for the average customer either to time his visits to take advantage of them, or to try and get the time they are available extended.
On that basis 2-4-1's are something to be used with considerable care by the venues.
The other practical point is the effect they have on dancers. Most dancers in this thread clearly don't like discounted dances - and have said so fairly forcibly. I think it's a fair bet if they don't like doing them, they won't be putting heart and soul into their performances.
Which may well mean buying a 2-4-1 could result in a dancer going through the motions. Pay less - get less of an experience.
Phil.
jasmine
09-12-2007, 11:32 AM
If the club is pricing by industry standards they have every right to ask that. The price of dances hasnt been touched by inflation...the price has been the same for decades. Know before you walk in that dances are $20. If you cant afford it..dont come in. We certainly dont want to attract bargain shoppers...
Honestly..I'd rather make nothing then sell my services at a discount. Thats insulting.
This is true, the club I worked at 10 yrs ago had $20 dances, or 3 for $50. A lot of us girls left for a more upscale club with $30 dances, the old club renovated and re-opened with $40 dances or 3 for $100. The better looking dancers came back immediately. See the coorelation between quality and price. By the way, many of us girls have the entire time between sets bought before finishing on stage, so we don't need to work at a place with $20 dances if something else is around. Hell, on busy nights, my regs knew that a big tip (to me, the bouncer and dj) was the only way to be sure to get a dance.
bem401
09-12-2007, 02:42 PM
The coin you're selling is nudity, and its value is related to its scarcity.
If striptease was rare and difficult to access it would command a far better premium than it does now. Conversely, as there are now more alternative ways of viewing nudity (webcams, DVD's, etc) the coinage is becoming devalued. There are also (IMHO) more strip venues about than there were 10 years ago, so its easier to get a lap dance.
As nudity/striptease has become more commonplace, its shock value has gone. Whereas 10 years ago, a lap dance in itself was an erotic experience, now it seems more commonplace.
As customers, we go to a strip club to be titilated, and if nudity has lost its shock value, then some will seek other forms of titilation. I think that's one reason why extras are becoming more prevalent.
Striptease becoming more commonplace is also possibly the reason why dances have remained stuck at $20 or $25 for a fair few years now. If nudity were less common, then presumably dancers would be able to charge a higher price per dance?
One of the sharpest divides between dancer and customer is over the question of pricing. A dancer (naturally) seeks to maximise her income and a customer (equally naturally) seeks to get as much entertainment as he can for his $$$'s.
The original question was whether 2-4-1's helped dancer's incomes or not.
I'd say only in very specific circumstances, say when a club is consistantly dead. There it might bring in customers who wouldn't otherwise come in and spend benefiting the dancers.
However, 2-4-1's can also be the thin end of the wedge - in effect devaluing the currency. Once it's known 2-4-1's are available, I'm sure there's a temptation for the average customer either to time his visits to take advantage of them, or to try and get the time they are available extended.
On that basis 2-4-1's are something to be used with considerable care by the venues.
The other practical point is the effect they have on dancers. Most dancers in this thread clearly don't like discounted dances - and have said so fairly forcibly. I think it's a fair bet if they don't like doing them, they won't be putting heart and soul into their performances.
Which may well mean buying a 2-4-1 could result in a dancer going through the motions. Pay less - get less of an experience.
Phil.
Everything Phil said is right on except for the comment that 2-4-1's should be used with considerable care by the venues. The venues are primarily in the business of selling alcohol and will do whatever they can to promote that. They only need to use care in that alienating dancers isn't in their best interest. 2-4-1's, 3-4-1's, 5-4-1's, discrete extras..... they don't really care as long as it brings in customers and keeps the money keeps flowing.
The fact of the matter is that the price of anything, dances included, is determined by market forces. If the market for a certain product can't be supported in a certain area, the sellers of that product have four choices. They can sell less product, lower prices, move to an area where the price can be gotten, or leave the business. It's why 5 star hotels and restaurants are only found in major metropolitan areas and not in the middle of Appalachia. Dancers here advocate digging in their heels and holding out for their preferred price and everyone understands their motivation for trying to do so, and clearly some of them are successful in doing so, but if the area where they work won't support that price, eventually they might find themselves having to make some hard decisions.
britt244
09-12-2007, 02:48 PM
The fact of the matter is that the price of anything, dances included, is determined by market forces. If the market for a certain product can't be supported in a certain area, the sellers of that product have four choices. They can sell less product, lower prices, move to an area where the price can be gotten, or leave the business. It's why 5 star hotels and restaurants are only found in major metropolitan areas and not in the middle of Appalachia. Dancers here advocate digging in their heels and holding out for their preferred price and everyone understands their motivation for trying to do so, and clearly some of them are successful in doing so, but if the area where they work won't support that price, eventually they might find themselves having to make some hard decisions.
the prices are in the same range pretty much everywhere. where did anyone mention an area not supporting that?
bem401
09-12-2007, 03:39 PM
the prices are in the same range pretty much everywhere. where did anyone mention an area not supporting that?
Mention has been made of places charging $40 a dance ( a few posts back ) . In my area, $20 or $25 is the norm, and I understand some places down South are rumored to charge $10 a dance. I only have first-hand knowledge of what I myself have experienced. To me that is a pretty wide range of prices for essentially the same product. Whether prices are consistent from area to area isn't really relevant to the argument. I was speaking in more general terms than dances even. When there isn't sufficent demand for a certain product at a certain price, eventually something has to give. If dancers say holding the line on pricing ( or even charging a premium ) works for them, then more power to them, but the possibility exists that someday that price might not be able to be realized, and then the hard decisions need to be made. I'm not advocating that anyone do anything other than what they deem to be in their best interests, but the Laws of Supply and Demand are called Laws for a reason-because they are indisputable.
doc-catfish
09-13-2007, 05:02 PM
Mention has been made of places charging $40 a dance ( a few posts back ) . In my area, $20 or $25 is the norm, and I understand some places down South are rumored to charge $10 a dance. I only have first-hand knowledge of what I myself have experienced. To me that is a pretty wide range of prices for essentially the same product.
Of course, its not always essentially the same product. In some places, lap dances are performed topless, in others fully nude, in others yet fully clothed. In some instances, customers can touch the dancer, in others they can't, in others yet the dancer can't even touch the customer, or can only do so in a very minimal manner. In some places there is grinding, in others not. Sometimes the dances are done in a private room, sometimes in a designated open area, sometimes right at the customer's table. Some clubs have two different tiers of dances. You also have to take in the "Your Mileage May Vary" factor that comes with any dance.
Things like the aforementioned make a huge difference in the maximum price that a customer is willing to pay, and the minimum value that a dancer feels is fair compensation for said service. Even more so than local economics.
bem401
09-13-2007, 05:58 PM
Of course, its not always essentially the same product. In some places, lap dances are performed topless, in others fully nude, in others yet fully clothed. In some instances, customers can touch the dancer, in others they can't, in others yet the dancer can't even touch the customer, or can only do so in a very minimal manner. In some places there is grinding, in others not. Sometimes the dances are done in a private room, sometimes in a designated open area, sometimes right at the customer's table. Some clubs have two different tiers of dances. You also have to take in the "Your Mileage May Vary" factor that comes with any dance.
Things like the aforementioned make a huge difference in the maximum price that a customer is willing to pay, and the minimum value that a dancer feels is fair compensation for said service. Even more so than local economics.
I understand that. The product can vary greatly within a given club for that matter. I was responding to the assertion that there was no variation in what was charged from place to place. My original comment wasn't intended to be specific to dances per se, but to any product or service being sold that is subject to the Laws of Supply and Demand.
britt244
09-13-2007, 06:03 PM
^ well, there isnt much variation when it comes to certain types of dances. for example, a topless dance may cost $30ish across the board. a normal one may cost $20. that was what i was saying. obviously there are diff types of dances but for each category there are pretty typical prices.
and ive mentioned before that i worked at a club where dances were $30, fully clothed, and the customer could only touch legs arms etc. and i could do 20 dances there and walk out with $600, whereas now i have to do more dances to walk out with that much. i'd have to do 30 topless dances to leave with $600. like i said, i'd always prefer the easier route of less dances for more money if its possible. maybe thats lazy, but i dont care. who wouldnt want to do less work and make more money? when they cost more, you can do less and still make money. so lowering prices may increase my number of dances but it does not increase my income.
Jenny
09-13-2007, 07:02 PM
so lowering prices may increase my number of dances but it does not increase my income.Well this is precisely the issue. All these guys are only assuming that when you lower prices the volume will increase accordingly. It might not. It might only increase a little. As I was saying before - if I charge $300 an hour, I'd only make more money at $100 if I sell 4 hours to the one. That just doesn't seem to be how it works. And of course, it is OBVIOUS that if I've charged a guy $100 one night, he is not going to pay $300 the next night. He is going to (ask the blue side...) come in when it's not busy so he can get that rate again.
miabella
09-13-2007, 08:00 PM
i believe it was doc who actually sketched out several price ranges and likelihood of selling them.
in his examples (which were quite random but acceptably illustrative), the sweet spot for pricing was not <20$ at all.
if you aren't hustling tips on top of the dance price, dropping below 20 per song slices your earning potential radically even if you have a large volume increase. even if you are hustling tips, you could keep the price at 20 or higher and still get the tips.
britt244
09-13-2007, 08:01 PM
Well this is precisely the issue. All these guys are only assuming that when you lower prices the volume will increase accordingly. It might not. It might only increase a little. As I was saying before - if I charge $300 an hour, I'd only make more money at $100 if I sell 4 hours to the one. That just doesn't seem to be how it works. And of course, it is OBVIOUS that if I've charged a guy $100 one night, he is not going to pay $300 the next night. He is going to (ask the blue side...) come in when it's not busy so he can get that rate again.
i dont understand why they dont get this. its been said multiple times in this thread alone.
miabella
09-13-2007, 08:23 PM
they don't get it because they refuse to concede that dances are both a luxury item and a commodity. that means that occasional specials can be levied, but that you can't really sell the things at 5 dollars per and rack up moneys in volume.
L.A.P.
09-13-2007, 09:01 PM
The market has set the prices, so they're pretty much in line. If a dancer charged 1k for a fully clothed (burka and all), no contact dance, chances are they would sell very few. On the flip side, if a customer only had to pay $1 for an hour long dance, very few girls would be dancing. These are two extreme examples, but they're just used to illustrate my point.
I've never tried to negiotate price, it never even crossed my mind. I suppose it might work in some cases, but if I go into a club and don't feel a LD is worth the price, I just don't get one. Simple as that. If a dancer feels her time is worth more than what is offered, she doesn't have to accept it. Eventually the two will meet, I will feel the LD is worth the price and she will feel the payment is worth her time.
For an alternate view, if I were a club owner, I would find a pricing scheme that brought in the most money, but also kept my quality dancers. If I told the girls they had to do extremely cheap dances at all times, I would probably lose them to another club. If I set the dance prices extremely high, my customers would be going elsewhere. I would have to find the happy medium.
It's a pretty simple concept really.
bem401
09-14-2007, 05:22 AM
^ . maybe thats lazy, but i dont care. who wouldnt want to do less work and make more money? when they cost more, you can do less and still make money. so lowering prices may increase my number of dances but it does not increase my income.
It's not lazy. Nobody wants to do more work for the same amount of pay, and no one is suggesting anyone should ( at least I'm not ). It's just that sometimes, you don't have a choice. In the long run, any significant change in supply or demand could affect the price of a dance. That effect could be either to your benefit or your detriment and, to a certain extent, it is beyond the control of any dancer or customer. When an equilibrium price is reached, one can choose to participate or not.
britt244
09-14-2007, 05:24 AM
It's not lazy. Nobody wants to do more work for the same amount of pay, and no one is suggesting anyone should ( at least I'm not ). It's just that sometimes, you don't have a choice. In the long run, any significant change in supply or demand could affect the price of a dance. That effect could be either to your benefit or your detriment and, to a certain extent, it is beyond the control of any dancer or customer. When an equilibrium price is reached, one can choose to participate or not.
sigh. i should stop posting in this thread. first, youre contridicting yourself. you say you dont have a chouce, and then one can choose to participate or not. well, which is it? and don't tell me i don't have a choice. for the last time, i'd sooner not dance than lower my prices. that is all. there is no argument you can make against that. i'm sure you'll try but you will be wrong because you cant tell me what i would do.
and stop talking about in the long run blah blah blah. we have established that dance prices have been relatively stable and i cannot understand why you or anyone else all of a sudden think they would change now.
SportsWriter2
09-14-2007, 05:42 AM
youre contridicting yourself. you say you dont have a chouce, and then one can choose to participate or not. well, which is it?It might be easier to understand Bem's concept by example. If you have entry-level skills in retail, you can work at Wal-Mart for $7-$10 per hour. You don't have a choice to do that job for $20 per hour. That wage level is determined by regional supply and demand. You can choose to participate in the Wal-Mart workforce or not. Alternatively, you can become a sex worker... or not, depending on whether you are willing to accept the risks and rewards. Clearly there is a point where Britt would opt out. Everyone has her own level. Historically, most American workers have improved their income by developing skill sets with high demand relative to supply.
miabella
09-14-2007, 06:51 AM
actually, historically, wages have been plumped up for some groups of people over others rather than it all being merit-based.
britt244
09-14-2007, 07:12 AM
It might be easier to understand Bem's concept by example. If you have entry-level skills in retail, you can work at Wal-Mart for $7-$10 per hour. You don't have a choice to do that job for $20 per hour. That wage level is determined by regional supply and demand. You can choose to participate in the Wal-Mart workforce or not. Alternatively, you can become a sex worker... or not, depending on whether you are willing to accept the risks and rewards. Clearly there is a point where Britt would opt out. Everyone has her own level. Historically, most American workers have improved their income by developing skill sets with high demand relative to supply.
but that doesnt apply here because it doesnt matter if you're brand new or 10 years into it. dance prices are still relatively similar across the board.
Jenny
09-14-2007, 09:01 AM
It might be easier to understand Bem's concept by example. If you have entry-level skills in retail, you can work at Wal-Mart for $7-$10 per hour. You don't have a choice to do that job for $20 per hour. That wage level is determined by regional supply and demand. You can choose to participate in the Wal-Mart workforce or not. Alternatively, you can become a sex worker... or not, depending on whether you are willing to accept the risks and rewards. Clearly there is a point where Britt would opt out. Everyone has her own level. Historically, most American workers have improved their income by developing skill sets with high demand relative to supply.
Hasn't it been sort of well established since like 1971 in all fields concerned that employment contracts cannot be governed by a model that simple?
Not to mention the inherent difference between contractors and employees.
SportsWriter2
09-14-2007, 11:58 AM
actually, historically, wages have been plumped up for some groups of people over others rather than it all being merit-based.
Point well taken. Unions, politics and social privilege have all played a part in distorting the labor market, but improved skill sets have provided more people with greater income.
but that doesnt apply here because it doesnt matter if you're brand new or 10 years into it. dance prices are still relatively similar across the board.
Think of it this way: the piecework rate has not changed in the past decade, and an hour still has only 60 minutes. There's no union seniority, so why would just being there longer make any difference?
Hasn't it been sort of well established since like 1971 in all fields concerned that employment contracts cannot be governed by a model that simple?
Not to mention the inherent difference between contractors and employees.
Ironically, it's ITC and OTC extras that make this a plausible (and complex) independent contractor model. If you just follow the house rules, it more closely resembles a piecework employee model.
Finally, I don't like the social consequences of our (often distorted) market system, but you have to recognize what it is in order to deal with it.
Phil-W
09-14-2007, 12:25 PM
they don't get it because they refuse to concede that dances are both a luxury item and a commodity. that means that occasional specials can be levied, but that you can't really sell the things at 5 dollars per and rack up moneys in volume.
A pretty fair statement.
I've always figured most dancers are pretty adept at maxinising their income and, were it possible to make significantly more money by doing discounts, they'd be doing it.
The fact they don't do (or like doing) discounts would seem to be pretty conclusive evidence that it's not a viable way of increasing their income.
The other thing not mentioned is that dancers have a degree of emotional capital invested in the price they charge. Apart from the income aspect, I'll bet a dancer feels more valued if she sells $50 dances, not $5 dances.
Phil.
Lapaholic
09-14-2007, 12:30 PM
I would wager that in a club where a dancer can set a price those dancers who are for whatever reason not in demand will negotiate a lower "wage" than those who do well. Also in a given night those dancers with better skills make more sales than those with lesser skills. Now how u define skills may be a lot of fun. I just think it works itself out over time.
Of course the 400 pound gorilla here is the club which was Crizgolfer's original point many posts ago.
I think you all are too fixated on the price per song.
L.A.P.
09-14-2007, 12:59 PM
Here's some numbers to consider.
Let's say a dance charges $20 per LD. In an hour she sells 3 dances. She decides she wants to charge more, so she changes it to $30 per dance. Due to her higher price she only sells 2 in an hour. However, both prices net her $60, with the exception being that the 2nd prices requires her doing less work. Seems like simple decision for me.
Another example:
A dancer sells LD's for $20 per. In a normal shift she sells 10, which makes her $200. She thinks that by lowering her price she can sell a lot more and make more money, so she drops it to $10 per. Now in a shift she sells 21, which nets her $210. She was right, she did make more, but it required her to do more than 2 times the work. Is the $10 worth the extra work? That's something for her to decide. I could get a part time job on the weekends in addition to my fulltime and make extra money, but I'm content with what I make now and it's not worth it to me, the same can be said for her.
Sure, during a week day, it might be slow and she might not make much money, but her wage increases a lot at night and the weekends. As long as she's happy with what she's making and the amount of work she's doing, there's no reason to lower the price at certain times. If she wanted to make the absolute most amount of money, she should probably lower the price at times, but that's really her decision to make, she's the one who is earning or not earning the wage.
Corgan
09-14-2007, 01:40 PM
^ i'll make nothing, thanks. you get what you pay for. if you want a good dance, you pay a good price.
yep! our happy hour dance price is $10, but i refuse to do $10 dances... because i have to pay a percentage on that! when a guy asks how much a dance is, and i tell him $20, he's usually okay with it, and buys multiples!
however, i do get the guys that try to push my price down. i just tell them the exact same thing, you get what you pay for.
:)
doc-catfish
09-14-2007, 04:27 PM
I was re-reading this thread, and noticed one customer made a very good point. "If I walked into a club that sold $12-15 dances, I'd wonder what kind of club I walked into."
One in Arizona?
I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this. When I was in a marketing class years ago in high school, I talked to someone who had worked for Saks. He said the high cost of the goods there was important. It made people value them more.
That's a correct assumption...if you're selling the kind of stuff that Saks sells to the kind of customers that Saks attracts. I would not neccesarily put lap dances (particularly ones done in blue collar clubs) in the same category because even at $25-30 they're not so unattainable that joe schmo can't try them out once or twice.
Wouldn't the strip club experience seem less glamorous, less exciting, less of a luxurious experience, and just overall a lot more cheap and and mundane if dances were $10 instead of $20, even if it was only half the time (say, during the day)? And if it is less exciting and glamorous, something that any guy can do any day with the change left in his pocket, wouldn't that make it less appealing? Thoughts, anyone?
Your line of reasoning is sound, but the fact of the matter its usually women and not men that think in those "higher price" equals "higher quality" terms. I remember a discussion we had on here way back when about hair salons that charge gender disproportionate prices regarding haircuts, even when the women's haircut is the effectively the exact same cut as a man would get.
To most of us with a Y chromosone in our genes, the concept of "luxury" and "glamour" is largely meaningless, even when we can afford it, unless of course the luxury in question:
A. Has four big tires and a Hemi in it.
B. Has "Callaway" embossed on the handle and can drive a golf ball 300 yards.
C. Has a good view of the 50 yard line.
And not to threadjack, but as to the aforementioned "you get what you pay for" comments, twelve years of buying lap dances has taught me that inside a strip club, where there is no quality assurance and no money back guarantee when one is dissatisfied, that maxim does not neccesarily apply, even when dances are full price.
bem401
09-14-2007, 05:12 PM
sigh. i should stop posting in this thread. first, youre contridicting yourself. you say you dont have a chouce, and then one can choose to participate or not. well, which is it? and don't tell me i don't have a choice. for the last time, i'd sooner not dance than lower my prices. that is all. there is no argument you can make against that. i'm sure you'll try but you will be wrong because you cant tell me what i would do.
and stop talking about in the long run blah blah blah. we have established that dance prices have been relatively stable and i cannot understand why you or anyone else all of a sudden think they would change now.
double sigh. this isn't about you personally. you have no control over the maximum price a guy is willing to pay for a dance, just as the guy has no control over the minimum amount of money for which you will dance. either party can choose to participate or not, but you can't make him pay more than he is willing and he can't make you take less than your set price. there is no contradiction and there is nothing there to debate. your decision to hold the price line is based on your assumption that enough guys will be willing to meet your price to make it worth holding out for that price. that is not likely to change but it is a possibility.
When I say "in the long run" it means quite simply ( or maybe not simply enough ) that you are not the only dancer, he is not the only customer, and today is not the only day that dances are being sold. there is a whole big world out there with millions of strippers and customers who determine quality and price. to argue otherwise is to be narcissistic.
and by the way, if dance prices remain flat for an extended period of time, say 5 or 10 years, they are actually decreasing in value ( or price ) because the $20 earned for that dance now cannot buy the same amount of goods and services as $20 earned for that same dance 10 years ago.
cameron_keys
09-14-2007, 11:38 PM
and by the way, if dance prices remain flat for an extended period of time, say 5 or 10 years, they are actually decreasing in value ( or price ) because the $20 earned for that dance now cannot buy the same amount of goods and services as $20 earned for that same dance 10 years ago.
That was kind of our point. Technically dances are less then they used to be because $20 isnt worth as much today as it was 20 yrs ago. Yet..cheap asses still bitch and complain and try to bargain us down like its a god-dammed flea market. No thanks.
And you absolutely CAN control how much he spends. THATS our job. Just tonight I had a custie who said he wouldnt have stayed for more than one drink if it werent for me. MANY drinks and hundreds of dollars later...he is begging me to tell hin when I will see him again.
If we do our job well...we are as addictive as crack. And the junkies who crave us will pay anything for a fix
britt244
09-15-2007, 12:09 AM
That was kind of our point. Technically dances are less then they used to be because $20 isnt worth as much today as it was 20 yrs ago. Yet..cheap asses still bitch and complain and try to bargain us down like its a god-dammed flea market. No thanks.
And you absolutely CAN control how much he spends. THATS our job. Just tonight I had a custie who said he wouldnt have stayed for more than one drink if it werent for me. MANY drinks and hundreds of dollars later...he is begging me to tell hin when I will see him again.
If we do our job well...we are as addictive as crack. And the junkies who crave us will pay anything for a fix
thank you. apparently when i say it its wrong wrong wrong. except for i'm the one doing the job and i think i would know better than a customer. ::)
salsa4ever
09-15-2007, 12:56 AM
double sigh. this isn't about you personally. you have no control over the maximum price a guy is willing to pay for a dance, just as the guy has no control over the minimum amount of money for which you will dance. either party can choose to participate or not, but you can't make him pay more than he is willing and he can't make you take less than your set price. there is no contradiction and there is nothing there to debate. your decision to hold the price line is based on your assumption that enough guys will be willing to meet your price to make it worth holding out for that price. that is not likely to change but it is a possibility.
When I say "in the long run" it means quite simply ( or maybe not simply enough ) that you are not the only dancer, he is not the only customer, and today is not the only day that dances are being sold. there is a whole big world out there with millions of strippers and customers who determine quality and price. to argue otherwise is to be narcissistic.
and by the way, if dance prices remain flat for an extended period of time, say 5 or 10 years, they are actually decreasing in value ( or price ) because the $20 earned for that dance now cannot buy the same amount of goods and services as $20 earned for that same dance 10 years ago.
So what is your point?
people who do this stuff every day for a living are telling you that there IS a sufficient demand for their services at the price they are currently selling it for. Furthermore, because dances are not a homogenous good, they are telling you they CAN influence the demand for THEIR dances by improving their product (the way they look, smell, feel, talk, dance, etc.)
why won't you believe them?
SportsWriter2
09-15-2007, 08:17 AM
If we do our job well...we are as addictive as crack. And the junkies who crave us will pay anything for a fix
Exploiting the psychologically vulnerable is a minor part of the SC economic model, although some dancers do seem to specialize in it. :-\
britt244
09-15-2007, 09:39 AM
So what is your point?
people who do this stuff every day for a living are telling you that there IS a sufficient demand for their services at the price they are currently selling it for. Furthermore, because dances are not a homogenous good, they are telling you they CAN influence the demand for THEIR dances by improving their product (the way they look, smell, feel, talk, dance, etc.)
why won't you believe them?
quoted for truth.
Star Player
09-15-2007, 12:07 PM
I will not pay above the posted rate on dances. This is set by the club. If unsure of a club's rates - check with a coctail waitress or management first.
For instance at SR in LA the dances are $15 as this is a bikini club. But they offer specials where you get 3 for 2, a super deal. I usually buy 3 sets of these and give the gal a Ben Franklin which includes a $10 tip. Coupled with some premium liquor, not bad stress relief for a tough day at the office.
In my view, it is unethical for dancers to attempt to fleece a customer by asking above the posted rate.
britt244
09-15-2007, 12:15 PM
In my view, it is unethical for dancers to attempt to fleece a customer by asking above the posted rate.
then it's unethical for customers to try and bargain and work it down. and in that respect, there should be no 2 for 1s or 3 for 2s.
Star Player
09-15-2007, 12:34 PM
These bargins Britt are set by management. This is good for the girls and enables them to make more money overall in my view. Plus it is a good way for the customer to get to really know the girl and appreciate her. One rather sharp young lady after taking my business card, would call me shortly before quitting time at work on payday and say "hi honey, its your GF at SR calling, its gonna be 3 for 2 tonite, bring your buddy Ben (Franklin) and come see me." Now how can I say no to an invitation like that? I spent $300 on her that nite really delightful fun, and as I was leaving she kissed me and said "you are the nicest customer I have had, this will really help out with my books at UCI because I am already broke after the costs of cheerleading. When can you come see me again.?"
britt244
09-15-2007, 12:36 PM
read the thread. doesnt help us make money. helps the club. end of story. kthanks.
Lapaholic
09-15-2007, 12:47 PM
^^^ Not to divert too much - but do u think 2 for 1s or whatever specials the club may do could benefit you - the dancer. Im thinking in the sense that you might acquire new customers who may not have otherwise have gotten a dance with you. Just curious -- please dont hurt me.... ;)
britt244
09-15-2007, 12:49 PM
^^^ Not to divert too much - but do u think 2 for 1s or whatever specials the club may do could benefit you - the dancer. Im thinking in the sense that you might acquire new customers who may not have otherwise have gotten a dance with you. Just curious -- please dont hurt me.... ;)
well, in my case, no. i don't do 2 for 1s. it is a waste of time and money. maybe i'm wrong in my way of thinking but i just don't think it's right to make the money same for double the work. if i were doing them, this might sound bad, but it wouldnt be as good of a dance. so i probably wouldnt be making a new customer anyway. luckily i don't work at clubs where this goes on.
bem401
09-15-2007, 02:55 PM
So what is your point?
people who do this stuff every day for a living are telling you that there IS a sufficient demand for their services at the price they are currently selling it for.
I never said there wasn't a demand for their services at the named price. I merely said that might not always be the case ( and admitted even that was unlikely ).
Furthermore, because dances are not a homogenous good, they are telling you they CAN influence the demand for THEIR dances by improving their product (the way they look, smell, feel, talk, dance, etc.)
why won't you believe them?
I don't doubt there are guys who can be easily manipulated and without a doubt the demand for an individual dancer's services are influenced by all the things you mentioned. But Supply and Demand still applies. For example, I own some real estate in a summer community that is worth about 10% less than it was a year or two ago. The property is just as nice as it ever was and I wish this drop in value hadn't occurred but I have no control over its market value. Conditions have changed and demand is not what it was. This can happen in any free market. If you read a book/article on Price Theory, you'll see they say exactly the same thing.
Star Player
09-15-2007, 05:30 PM
I can sympathize with your feelings about not giving your dances below what you feel they are worth. I have the same kind of feelings about my rare coin inventory. But sometimes if your gonna move it and get cash flow you have to lower prices or let it rip at auction. It hurts, sure, but its a reality of the marketplace.
On 3 for 2 nite a dancer may not be getting full value for her dances, but she may gain a regular. You have to envision the big picture. An average girl can gain customers by lowering her price, etc. One gal I was a regular with at Lipstick in Kemah offered her dances to me at half price vs the other girls. So on an average day instead of making $50 she made that plus another $100 or more when I came in. I was a huge impact on her earnings. On some days she would not go to work unless I was coming.
gingerlee
09-15-2007, 08:59 PM
I can sympathize with your feelings about not giving your dances below what you feel they are worth. I have the same kind of feelings about my rare coin inventory. But sometimes if your gonna move it and get cash flow you have to lower prices or let it rip at auction. It hurts, sure, but its a reality of the marketplace.
On 3 for 2 nite a dancer may not be getting full value for her dances, but she may gain a regular. You have to envision the big picture. An average girl can gain customers by lowering her price, etc. One gal I was a regular with at Lipstick in Kemah offered her dances to me at half price vs the other girls. So on an average day instead of making $50 she made that plus another $100 or more when I came in. I was a huge impact on her earnings. On some days she would not go to work unless I was coming.
We know, you make a mark on every stripper you encounter. You are amazing and quite a catch. You can make such an impact on them that they can't keep in in the club, they must meet you outside for witty conversation. Girls will hang out with you for free.
We're not coins, and we all know you are full of shit with the lame ass stories you tell. Keep telling us how awesome you are though, it's the one thing the strippers on this site yearn for.
Djoser
09-15-2007, 10:12 PM
We're not coins...
You're on a roll these days, Ginger. First the bunnies, now this.
Get it straight guys--women are not commodities.
They are human beings, who have emotions and a sense of self-esteem, who do not appreciate being marked down, put up for special reduced half-off sale rates, bargained with, haggled over, or otherwise insulted by being treated as coins, automobiles, dishwashers, or bulk-rate dog chow.
Sure, you might run into the occasional woman who will dance for half the normal rate, in order to get a bit more money than she might have otherwise. Goodie for you. But overall, if you think you are getting more bangs for your buck by haggling over the price of a lapdance, you are far more delusional than any dancer I have ever worked with.
And yes, I have worked with plenty of delusional dancers. Trust me on that one.
To most of us with a Y chromosone in our genes, the concept of "luxury" and "glamour" is largely meaningless, even when we can afford it, unless of course the luxury in question:
A. Has four big tires and a Hemi in it.
B. Has "Callaway" embossed on the handle and can drive a golf ball 300 yards.
C. Has a good view of the 50 yard line.
Good god, man--much as I respect your opinion ordinarily, a woman such as, say GingerLee, makes these macho toys look like secondhand GI Joe plastic action figures bought at a garage sale.
Fuck golf, fuck trucks, fuck football games. A fine, sexy, confident woman beats them all, hands-down.
jaizaine
09-16-2007, 01:52 AM
You get EXACTLY what you pay for.
Phil-W
09-16-2007, 04:50 AM
Get it straight guys--women are not commodities.
And a little story to tell about the human cost of all this.
Three dancers have over the years become close friends. A few days ago, one of them asked me a favour. She's friendly with another dancer who's quietly drowning in debt and needs every job she can get. I was asked if I'd take this other dancer along to a pretty dubious venue and watch out for her while she was there.
I duly take the dancer along and she's so desperate to earn money, she steps quite a way outside of her personal limits to earn it (we won't discuss what). She earned the money she needed, but at a cost.
She can't tell her partner what she did, so she'll always feel guilty about that. She trusts me to keep my mouth shut, but every time she sees me, she'll remember I know her secret. And, if she wants to roll the clock back, she can't - she's stuck with the knowledge of what she did.
So, it's not just a question of economics - it's about living, breathing people with emotions and feelings
Phil.
SportsWriter2
09-16-2007, 06:16 AM
I duly take the dancer along and she's so desperate to earn money, she steps quite a way outside of her personal limits to earn it (we won't discuss what). She earned the money she needed, but at a cost.
She can't tell her partner what she did, so she'll always feel guilty about that. She trusts me to keep my mouth shut, but every time she sees me, she'll remember I know her secret.
Phil, you need a black TX4 that says, "Trips to your secret world and beyond." Trust me, you'll be making that run again. :-\