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naughty_princess
09-18-2007, 10:18 PM
i was thinking I would actually read it to know what game they are playing. ya know to avoid being tricked by some of these "techniques". I would love to manipulate someone trying to manipulate me :P

SERIOUSLY look how fucking degrading and juvenile some of these are

Product Information:
For only $99 you can get ... which contains invaluable information on:

# Getting the woman to chase you
# Buying signals -- the ways she shows interest
# Asking for her home number and what her answer means
# Screening out takers and users
# How to use your phone and her machine to your advantage
# What date nights to avoid and why
# The first date -- how to set your ground rules non-verbally
# Deciphering Womanese -- her secret language
# Secrets to appearing super confident without bragging
# What she really wants versus what she says she wants
# Handling the most dangerous creature -- The Beautiful Woman
# Discovering her true motives and secret agenda
# Testing her to see if she really likes you
# What to do and look for during the first 60 days
# Finding out if she's worth keeping or dropping
# The one male trait that will make her do anything for you
# Women to avoid and why
# The 3 qualities she must possess for you to stick around

...plus tons more.

twisterinAZ
09-18-2007, 10:35 PM
Is that in the book ? Website or what ?

Deogol
09-18-2007, 10:36 PM
i was thinking I would actually read it to know what game they are playing. ya know to avoid being tricked by some of these "techniques". I would love to manipulate someone trying to manipulate me :P

SERIOUSLY look how fucking degrading and juvenile some of these are

Product Information:
For only $99 you can get ... which contains invaluable information on:

# Getting the woman to chase you
# Buying signals -- the ways she shows interest
# Asking for her home number and what her answer means
# Screening out takers and users
# How to use your phone and her machine to your advantage
# What date nights to avoid and why
# The first date -- how to set your ground rules non-verbally
# Deciphering Womanese -- her secret language
# Secrets to appearing super confident without bragging
# What she really wants versus what she says she wants
# Handling the most dangerous creature -- The Beautiful Woman
# Discovering her true motives and secret agenda
# Testing her to see if she really likes you
# What to do and look for during the first 60 days
# Finding out if she's worth keeping or dropping
# The one male trait that will make her do anything for you
# Women to avoid and why
# The 3 qualities she must possess for you to stick around

...plus tons more.


Sounds like some of the more mainstream dating books I read in my younger years.

You don't think it is a good idea to determine if there is someone to avoid? Or to know when someone is actually interested? (A lot of people don't know when they are being pursued or simply in polite company.)

How many people here ended up with an idiot and we all have to say "S/He's an idiot! Dump Him/er!"

So it's a book that shows ya how to flirt. Big deal.

I find it amusing there is a whole section on this site (Hustle Hut) dedicated to squeezing money out of men and the girls here are bent out of shape over a book on how to flirt. This web site entertains me to no end.

twisterinAZ
09-18-2007, 10:52 PM
I think you misunderstand the point. It's not about flirting. It's about lying to , manipulating and using women that is upsetting. Preying on a womans insecurities to get your dick wet as much as possible is just revolting. The Game isn't about dating.

Katrine
09-19-2007, 10:35 AM
So it's a book that shows ya how to flirt. Big deal.

I find it amusing there is a whole section on this site (Hustle Hut) dedicated to squeezing money out of men and the girls here are bent out of shape over a book on how to flirt. This web site entertains me to no end.

OMG, check the sky for flying pigs! Deogol, I actually agree with you here!

Let's not kid ourselves. People write books about how to sell and get what you want.

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a classic, recommended in universities and in sales companies all the time.

I don't see why this type of thing is that big a deal. I mean hell, we have Dancerwealth here. In my industry, we have a million books and seminars about how to appeal to people's emotions to capture their investable assets.

Scumbag guys who leech on you at the SC, and out socially, don't read these books. They don't care, they aren't shy and have figured out that its a game of numbers.

I'm not saying these tactics aren't manipulative, I just don't see the fuss over getting all riled up..

BTW, when I danced, I got these type of guys all the time. You can sniff them out pretty quickly, as most of them are poor at technique. Still, I would go to the library and read up on these PUA strategies in order to save your time.

Remember, most of these PL's are weak. They will give up, and will become customers!

Alaska
09-19-2007, 05:23 PM
Deogol...I do see your point, but would just like to add:


--Stripping is fake life, no way in the world do we treat our men and prospective men like we do a customer

--Most women are not strippers.

These books are generally addressing women as a whole, whereas the tips and tricks on this site are at least boiled down to one type of man: The Custy

The very first thing that makes women put up the defense is the treating all of us as the same, and prey at that.

....Not that we aren't all animals looking to bag a catch so's we can tap that ass. ;)

But it appeals to men and their wolf-pack mentality, just like someone said, dividing the gender roles further...and if it weren't written in such a way that a women would read it and be defensive, most of us would feel more sympathetic.


Just that there's a way difference between all those acronym crazy cult talk books, and the two books Passion and Law for example.

xdamage
09-19-2007, 05:31 PM
I didn't know this specific book existed until reading it here, but OTOH Kat does have a point... these types of books (how to manipulate others for various reasons) are so common I find it hard to get emotionally worked up by their existence. I can only assume that 1.) people keep writing books like this because someone is buying them, and 2.) there is a little bit of a hustler in all of us; this heinous because it's an extreme, but I accept that everyone hustles to some degree to sway things in their favor.

twisterinAZ
09-19-2007, 06:06 PM
The reason I am (sort of) worked up is because one of my so -called closest friends has used a lot of this shit on me and I didn't know about it until I discovered the book. Even though we aren't dating, it irks me . I thought he was a really cool guy until I realized that his whole personality is a play from this stupid book. After hanging out with his friends, they are engaged in some kind of sick competition and none of them has any substance, They have turned into Game-bots and it's annoying.

And ladies, A LOT, repeat A LOT of guys are reading this shit and running "Game " on you daily. Sad. There is so much more to knowing a woman than just her vagina.

xdamage
09-19-2007, 06:19 PM
The reason I am (sort of) worked up is because one of my so -called closest friends has used a lot of this shit on me and I didn't know about it until I discovered the book.

Gotcha. And of course when you're on the receiving end of a hustle, it often can and does suck to learn that one's trust in another and honest emotions invested were nothing but a manipulative game to the other person all along.

Katrine
09-19-2007, 06:20 PM
The reason I am (sort of) worked up is because one of my so -called closest friends has used a lot of this shit on me and I didn't know about it until I discovered the book. Even though we aren't dating, it irks me . I thought he was a really cool guy until I realized that his whole personality is a play from this stupid book. After hanging out with his friends, they are engaged in some kind of sick competition and none of them has any substance, They have turned into Game-bots and it's annoying.

And ladies, A LOT, repeat A LOT of guys are reading this shit and running "Game " on you daily. Sad. There is so much more to knowing a woman than just her vagina.

So did this guy get to tap that ass twister?

I must say, now I'm curious about if any men I've met IRL have used technique on me.

Oh look, kitty is chasing his tail on the CRT, so cute....

Bella21
09-19-2007, 06:36 PM
Can Anyone really blame a guy for for developing social skills that allow him to get over his fear of women.

No, I can't blame a guy for that. However, from what I have heard of this book so far... I can't say that "developing social skills" is exactly what this particular book is aiming for. ::)

Honestly, I suspect (pretty much... with very few exceptions) every guy of trying to manipulate his way into my pants. So, I can't see myself falling for ANYTHING that could be in that book. Also, I can picture quite a few male friends of mine owning that book. While I could probably overlook that (depending on the guy), if it were highlighted and dog-eared... I'd have to change his status to "casual acquaintance".

There are a few male "friends" turned "casual acquaintances" that I have for similar reasons. Not because I found out about a book like this... but because I finally realized that they were WAY to concerned about getting into someones pants instead of being honest. (i.e. "Oh, you're having problems with your bf? I'm sorry! When are we hanging out next/ I miss you/ Let's go get a drink!" Or "I'm wearing stockings right now... let's go back to your place and wear stockings together! PPLEEAASSEEE?")

Dealer
09-19-2007, 07:11 PM
Ok its just some self help material(i.e. book, web-site e-book, whatever)! The men who read it have problems talking to women and interacting so not to get put into the "friends" category. How many articles and self help books are there for women? TONS AND TONS. Every woman's mag out there puts articles on how to control your man or this or that. One girl I know had a book called "he's not that into you". But the guy WAS totally into her and she read into this book and bought all of it and destroyed the relationship. How many guys do you know who are awsome people and never get girls? Yes there are tons out there! Who cares if they have to learn how to comunicate with women? Must stuff taught is not about lieing to women but about how to comunicate and be confident. Did you know the guys are saposed to go out and talk to(and get shot down) 5 groups of women a night 5 nights a week. Yea how many people could you go up to knowing you dont know how to talk to them and they are going to shoot you down?

jaizaine
09-19-2007, 11:02 PM
howcome this thread has attracted so many posts from first time posters?

Bella21
09-19-2007, 11:37 PM
^Quite possible that they were lurkers but they own the book... since they keep calling it a "self-help" book. From what twister has said, it doesn't seem so much like "how to meet women" as "how to pretend to be something you're not so they'll have sex with you and then you can move on to the next one".

Bella21
09-19-2007, 11:40 PM
Did you know the guys are saposed to go out and talk to(and get shot down) 5 groups of women a night 5 nights a week. Yea how many people could you go up to knowing you dont know how to talk to them and they are going to shoot you down?

This is the year 2007... women approach men as well. Here's how it's done:

1. See person you're attracted to
2. Say "hi" and make some sort of small talk. Or, if they're with friends, make a lot of eye contact and smile so as to seperate them from said friends.
3. If there's a connection/ you click, have a normal-person conversation and exchange phone numbers.

It's simple. If someone gets shot down, it wasn't meant to be. A guy can be nervous and sweating... but if he seems nice and I'm sexually attracted to him (and single), he's at least got a shot. It's like that movie, Hitch... it's not so much about GETTING them so much as not messing it up.

Budai
09-20-2007, 12:19 AM
^Quite possible that they were lurkers but they own the book... since they keep calling it a "self-help" book. From what twister has said, it doesn't seem so much like "how to meet women" as "how to pretend to be something you're not so they'll have sex with you and then you can move on to the next one".

"While gossip among women is universally ridiculed as low and trivial, gossip among men, especially if it is about women, is called theory, or idea, or fact."
--Andrea Dworkin

Yep.

anabella
09-20-2007, 02:23 AM
howcome this thread has attracted so many posts from first time posters?

Well probably a year ago we had a mini-battle between SWers and members of their mystery method board. They are probably still lurking here and encouraging their members to come over and annoy us again since we're talking about them.

Women get pissed about the book because it teaches men things that work on women with low self-esteem. They are afraid that the method will work on them, proving that they are easily tricked or duped into liking someone they had no intention of liking.

I read some of their stupid intro games and "negs" about a year ago, and I've never had anyone use them on me. If they're in the club, they're the douches not spending any money. So, stay away from people not spending money (duh) and you'll be safe from them inside the club anyway.

twisterinAZ
09-20-2007, 02:25 AM
We KINDA hooked up but niether one of us remembers any of it and it was before I knew about the book.And can I just say that the majority of our "friendship" was after. I don't give a shit about that. It's the fact that our whole frindship even after that has been a lie. Like, who are you? You obviously aren't (insert lie here.) He's cute so I just feel like why lie?Are you that much a big weenie that if I knew the REAL you I wouldn't want to be your friend? And what is your real identity ?

It's weird. I mean think about it, if you found out that everything your female friend told you was a lie and she was someone other than she proclaimed to be, you would think that's fucked up just on a human level. Right?

jaizaine
09-20-2007, 02:48 AM
Well probably a year ago we had a mini-battle between SWers and members of their mystery method board. They are probably still lurking here and encouraging their members to come over and annoy us again since we're talking about them.

Women get pissed about the book because it teaches men things that work on women with low self-esteem. They are afraid that the method will work on them, proving that they are easily tricked or duped into liking someone they had no intention of liking.

I read some of their stupid intro games and "negs" about a year ago, and I've never had anyone use them on me. If they're in the club, they're the douches not spending any money. So, stay away from people not spending money (duh) and you'll be safe from them inside the club anyway.

That makes sense. It's the men who have the low self esteem if they have to TRICK a woman into bed. When I like a guy he doesn't need to trick me coz I want it just as much. But I guess these douches have never experienced reciprocal attraction.

twisterinAZ
09-20-2007, 02:54 AM
howcome this thread has attracted so many posts from first time posters?

That's what I was thinking. I have a theory.......

Sh0t
09-21-2007, 03:24 PM
I can confirm your theory. Many pickup community boards are linking these threads.

I've been in the pickup community since about 99. It's actually one of the better online communities, believe it or not, but it is not as good as it used to be.

95% of the men in the community are guys that are SO BAD with women, they'll do anything to improve, and the community helps them a lot. I cannot even describe some of the guys whose lives I've changed or I've seen change because of it. Guys that basically saw themselves dying alone and even as virgins, getting hope and then actual success. It's a self-help community like any other, mostly with good intention.

It's the other 5%(which includes me), that you have to be concerned about.

I wish a lot of the PL types would not turn their nose up at us, because they could really use our help in many cases.

A lot of people on the outside try to guess and think they know what it's about but until you've really been in it, you have no idea. Most women have really no idea how bad some guys have it and on the other hand, no idea what real success is, to us.

It's not about manipulating women, it's mostly about manipulating yourself so your "best self" comes out in 10 minutes, rather than the several weeks/months that most accidental courtings have.

Don't judge the community by the book "The Game". It was written by a member of the community that has a tremendously exaggerated view of himself and it is half fiction, half truth. And I've known the guy for many years and I have a long running..."feud" with one of the figures in the book. It is not a manual or even really a good documentation of that period.

Alaska
09-21-2007, 03:36 PM
^ That's a good post.

I hear ya tho, about manipulating yourself first, ppl DO need help sometimes...

It's just on the xtreme end, some of this stuff.

It's like politics, you always have your well rounded balanced questions, then you have Don't Tase Me Bro.

Alaska
09-21-2007, 03:38 PM
Oh and I'm wondering...

Do some of ya'll actually read what we write and consider it? Or is it a whole "fuck those defensive whores" mentality.

Because while some responses on here just spew forth anger and name calling, there are lots of fair balanced opinons that you'd think would be real helpful...

Sh0t
09-21-2007, 03:43 PM
Some of them consider it, but in general, women are bad sources of information on women. That sounds crazy but it's quite true because of a few things I'll talk more about if requested.

As to the "defensive whores" thing, remember what i said: 95% of the guys in the community are guys with no success with women, so many of them are quite bitter about it. Women can often sense this in person, which is part of the reason for their lack of success.

Many of those types never get anywhere in this "Game" and usually end up what we call KJs: keyboard jockeys. They post and post, but are too afraid to really approach women.

On the other hand, a lot of success can breed something similar to misogyny, but I try to always be polite.

Alaska
09-21-2007, 03:52 PM
but in general, women are bad sources of information on women.

How could you be such a n00b here and come out with sig worthy stuff already? That's so ironic I'm not even pissed.

I WOULD love to hear more, coming from an objective rather than personal viewpoint, like a sociologist wannabe, but I'm afraid it would incite flames and ppl all "OH NO! NOT ANOTHER THREAD ON THIS! CLOSE IMMEDIATELY!!!"

From the thread by friendly guy who's link I posted, you can totally see where it gets chronic...stemming all from bitterness. It IS very sad that it comes to such a negative viewpoint on women, and then making up wild theories based on all your rejections.

Such a difference from the guys who have game, get some, etc. who LOVE women have to BE around them at all times, get confused sometimes but love the torture, etc.

Kinda like bitter old ladies huh? The kind where you say "she just needs a dick and she'll shut up."

So what makes you in the 5% to be concerned about?

DJ Maimed
09-21-2007, 03:54 PM
Some of them consider it, but in general, women are bad sources of information on women. That sounds crazy but it's quite true because of a few things I'll talk more about if requested.

Consider it requested.....please tell us more.

Sh0t
09-21-2007, 04:11 PM
I'm not a newb here. I've been here for several years. Longer than you!

Women are bad source of information on women mostly by accident. They feel they are giving good advice, and they might be, but not for the guy in front of them usually. As often said, what women say and what they respond to tend to be quite different. Slightly misunderstood, as it really means "How would they want Brad Pitt to act towards them", not really the dorky virgin usually asking the question.

What women logically feel and what they respond to emotionally is usually where the disconnect is, and there really isn't anything they can do about it, so they are being honest for the most part. This doesn't apply to all women, I can name several from SW that it does not apply to, and it usually doesn't apply to dancers in general, but to normal guys, it applies very well.

Another problem is that asking a woman for advice is a "no no" with that woman anyway. It's one of those "rules" you don't break with a woman you are pursuing. Lead, not be led, to oversimplify.




I'm gonna sell out the community a bit and post this:

Alaska
09-21-2007, 04:19 PM
I'm not a newb here. I've been here for several years. Longer than you!




Lol, sorry, consider yourself "judged", I took it out of there after I realized.

Alaska
09-21-2007, 04:27 PM
I'm not a newb here. I've been here for several years. Longer than you!

Slightly misunderstood, as it really means "How would they want Brad Pitt to act towards them", not really the dorky virgin usually asking the question.



What women logically feel and what they respond to emotionally is usually where the disconnect is

Another problem is that asking a woman for advice is a "no no" with that woman anyway. It's one of those "rules" you don't break with a woman you are pursuing. Lead, not be led, to oversimplify.






(Still too new to bother with quoting the proper way so...)

1--As in, yes I'd want Brad Pitt to immediately start hitting on me sexually? The answer is yes, but I meet maybe 1 or 2 guys like that every other year. So that ain't the population I'm working with here...so that means dorky virgins still need to follow what I'd want more normal guys to follow (yes I will go out on a limb and say "more normal")

2--Does that mean kinda like when we say we no thanks, you can come upstairs NEXT TIME to just not "be slutty", and if the guy does it right and is persistant, we will find it hot and go for it? That's been true for me, and I stopped the whole "show him you are a good girl" a long time ago, and now feel like "show him you are the hottest sex he's ever had"

3--Yea, well ain't THAT statin the obvious.


I think this post is a good representation of how your community is working a lot of the time...taking specific situations and making them out to be general.

Sh0t
09-21-2007, 04:56 PM
It deals with very general things, such as confidence, etc, as well as the logistics and tactics of specific scenarios(clubs, passing by on the street, a coffee shop, whatever). Like any other body of knowledge.

Most guys never really get beyond the "be more confidence stage" because they have neither the drive no desire to really be a pickup artist or player or whatever. Learning the game to a high level is very similar to learning a sport or musical instrument. It takes about 3 years to get pretty decent, and most people just want a magic pill. Most guys in general are very touchy about this area and refuse to do anything about it, even when they feel they aren't having the kind of success they want(which is most guys).

It makes for a very odd group of guys.

I disagree with your 1 and 2 there. Especially 2. Being persistent really doesn't mean being boorish, there is a big emphasis on "comfort" in the community, that is making a woman feel comfortable being with you. One way to do that is to NOT pressure them about sex and such. In most cases, you rarely have to because most women are so confident they can seduce any guy, you just have to arrange it so she can comfortably seduce you.

Then again, you also have to make a move at some point if she doesn't, but it is generally accepted that it has to be done after you've established some comfort with the woman, already had things in a romantic context. Many guys will persist, even get sex from the woman, but the woman never sees them again. We call that "buyers remorse", one of those sales terms we've brought into pickup.

Katrine
09-21-2007, 08:55 PM
As much as we might now want to admit it, Sh0t makes some valid points. And as I've told Sh0t a million times, I don't know why he's part of this community, he's a sexy motherfucker. But perhaps there was once a shy, sweet, timid Sh0t. Long before I knew him. A Sh0t that had no game. He's a good guy, even if his views towards women are somewhat cynical. Hell, they couldn't be half as bad as my own ex-stripper views on menfolk.

I'm not here to shill for Sh0t. Creating sweeping gender generalizations only makes good for flame wars. Hopefully I am not invoking such war.....

As I've mentioned before, for the most part, scumbags don't have to read "The Game" to harrasss women in public. They already have no shame.

twisterinAZ
09-22-2007, 01:16 AM
I can confirm your theory. Many pickup community boards are linking these threads.

I've been in the pickup community since about 99. It's actually one of the better online communities, believe it or not, but it is not as good as it used to be.

95% of the men in the community are guys that are SO BAD with women, they'll do anything to improve, and the community helps them a lot. I cannot even describe some of the guys whose lives I've changed or I've seen change because of it. Guys that basically saw themselves dying alone and even as virgins, getting hope and then actual success. It's a self-help community like any other, mostly with good intention.

It's the other 5%(which includes me), that you have to be concerned about.

I wish a lot of the PL types would not turn their nose up at us, because they could really use our help in many cases.

A lot of people on the outside try to guess and think they know what it's about but until you've really been in it, you have no idea. Most women have really no idea how bad some guys have it and on the other hand, no idea what real success is, to us.

It's not about manipulating women, it's mostly about manipulating yourself so your "best self" comes out in 10 minutes, rather than the several weeks/months that most accidental courtings have.

Don't judge the community by the book "The Game". It was written by a member of the community that has a tremendously exaggerated view of himself and it is half fiction, half truth. And I've known the guy for many years and I have a long running..."feud" with one of the figures in the book. It is not a manual or even really a good documentation of that period.

Oh god, you're so cool I can't stand it.

*pukes a little*

Sh0t
09-22-2007, 06:42 AM
There was never any such Sh0t, baby

I've always been sweet, never been timid.

twisterinAZ
09-22-2007, 12:25 PM
*pukes even more *

Sh0t
09-22-2007, 01:41 PM
Sounds like you are a bit sick there Miss Twister. Are you ok?

James Bond
09-23-2007, 07:00 AM
A problem with a lot of these guys is that they're chasing women who are out of their league.

I've seen a few minutes of that show, "The PUA," or whatever it's called. They have guys who are 3 to 5s on the looks scale trying to pick up women who are 6 to 9s. No wonder they crash and burn. If they'd try to pick up women in their own league, their confidence would go up and they'd be more successful.

If they go after women who are in your own league, they wouldn't need tricks or manipulation to "pick up" women. There would be mutual "attraction" and both parties will make an effort to make things work.

I guess it's more socially acceptable for less attractive men to go after more attractive women. The reasons would take a dissertation to explain.

Could you imagine if they had a show about unattractive women who go in bars and try to pick up very attractive men. Right away, if the show even got on the air, the audience would denounce the women as unrealistic in their expectations, but no one says that about the guys.

So, the book, "The Game," should be retitled: "How To Pick Up Attractive Women if You're an Unattractive Loser." ;D

Usually, the guy has to be rich or famous to pick up the most attractive women, but for ordinary people, they should stick with someone who's more compatible with them.

Speaking of rich and famous, take a look at Christina Aguilera's husband. Maaaaaan, he's one ugly S.O.B. That's just not right. :no:

http://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/On-Sundays-Christina-Aguilera-Gets-Naked-2.jpg

Eeeeew! :yuck:

Optimist
09-23-2007, 08:04 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Beat me to the punch, babe! That's what I've seen more often than not. It's like watching some ugmug dissing girls left and right out of bitterness instead of taking a realistic look at himself. These guys have little to no perspective on how THEY rate because they're too busy rating and judging the chicks. Reminds me of a friend who couldn't get his mojo right with me so I moved on. I thought he'd be a little happy for me until he cursed me and my new friend out! If he was operating in the real world without massive defenses and delusions he could have been successful.



On the other hand, a lot of success can breed something similar to misogyny, but I try to always be polite.

That's because you're not looking for relationship sucess you're looking for sociopathic role-playing success. (third person 'you' not second person 'you').

Optimist
09-23-2007, 08:35 AM
I'm gonna sell out the community a bit and post this:
http://www.theplace.bz/forums.php?action=viewtopic&topicid=12010

Only members can access their site. Got another link to another board?

Katrine
09-23-2007, 10:04 AM
I wanna go troll some pua community! Remember when you and me and that girl in LA went after them a few years back Sh0t? That was fun, they REFUSED to believe we were strippers!

britt244
09-23-2007, 10:52 AM
I can confirm your theory. Many pickup community boards are linking these threads.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/browse_thread/thread/d3b9a70f811fb3ef/b9680396dd8c0c61

like that one ::) surprise surprise...

Casual Observer
09-23-2007, 11:47 AM
Can Anyone really blame a guy for for developing social skills that allow him to get over his fear of women.

But that's the problem; these pseudo-self-help dating/sex guides like Mystery Method, most of FS.com and their lesser-known ilk (I'd never heard of The Game) aren't about actually developing social skills as much as they are how to practice a routine in order to effect a specific outcome in a disturbingly clinical, non-social fashion. Is that really worth doing?

I have to agree with Sh0t and Kat that there are nuggets of wisdom to some of these methods (Three Second Rule, elements of Kino and real NLP--not that watered down shit most sites promulgate), but on the whole, they're really quite comical. I couldn't do most of what passes for advice on FS.com with a straight face. Moreover, I don't think I'd have any interest in a chick that could get reeled in by it, either.


They have guys who are 3 to 5s on the looks scale trying to pick up women who are 6 to 9s. No wonder they crash and burn. If they'd try to pick up women in their own league, their confidence would go up and they'd be more successful.

I don't disagree in principle, but my philosophy on the matter has always been that if you don't swing for the fences, you'll never hit a home run.

For most of these guys, like Mast and Sh0t pointed out, they could really stand to benefit from some self-examination and to adopt this truism daily: fortune favors the bold.

Sh0t
09-23-2007, 12:06 PM
I do remember. That was Muyaha. She moved to San Diego and works at UCSD now as a big time lab research scientist type-of-thing.

There are plenty of boards to troll. Let me think of the one I think will give us the most bang for the buck...


A problem with a lot of these guys is that they're chasing women who are out of their league.

There is no such thing as a woman out of your league. Or rather, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You could probably use a year or two in the community.

Truth be told, picking up 9s and 10s once you understand how is actually EASIER than picking up less beautiful women due to a rather interesting quirk that most very beautiful women share.

Pickup would be pretty worthless if it just gave handsome, rich men, access to hot women. The entire POINT of the community is so guys who we may describe as "less than ideal" can have a fighting chance at scoring some of those same women. And it's done without manipulation. You can't really manipulate women into liking you, they aren't stupid. But you can slowly evolve yourself into being "one of those guys."

Assuming that's your goal. Some of us just want to fuck women for sport and don't care about the self improvement aspect(that's the 5% I mentioned earlier). It's kind of pointless, but some people get a thrill from marching their sexual odometer up. We don't date so much as we "play." Like playing a video game or going out to play an informal game of basketball in the park or something.

Besides, to say a woman is out of a man's league just because she is very attractive doesn't say much about women, does it? Is their appearance the sole measure of their worth? I think when most men are honest, that's probably the case. Men will put up with a complete bitch if she's hot enough.


That's because you're not looking for relationship sucess you're looking for sociopathic role-playing success. (third person 'you' not second person 'you').
Most guys in the community(95%) are looking for a decent girlfriend actually. I'm just looking to see how long it takes to get to 1000 women seduced.

Here is a forum for you Katrine. This is the "strippers and hired guns" sub forum on a very active community forum. A hired gun in our terminology is somebody like waitress, hooters girl, bartender, gogo-dancer, i.e. a woman hired because she is hot to bring in business. I've pretty much given up on commenting on the stripper thing in the community because I prefer french toast.



If you click the "replies" button, it will sort by number of replies. There are some long threads in there by guys who really think they have it done, but I've seen some of them in person, and they don't, by my standards.

Katrine, you will be happy to know that besides what I said the other day, I have returned to my roots and I am dating strippers again. I've got a complete set going right now, a black one, a blond Ukrainian import(!!!), and an asian one. A black hooters girl too, a stripper-lite. Would you believe the black girl is actually the NICEST of the bunch? She reminds me of my mom.

Sh0t
09-23-2007, 12:16 PM
aren't about actually developing social skills as much as they are how to practice a routine in order to effect a specific outcome in a disturbingly clinical, non-social fashion. Is that really worth doing?
Yes, because it actually works. It's supposed to LOOK natural, even if it isn't. Everybody has routines. We all do the same "I'm from so and so and went to such and such college." We all have bits we use over and over again in conversation. The same way we talk at job interviews, when meeting a new potential fuck, whatever.
However, you are wrong on the emphasis on the community. The most often repeated word of advice is to work on "inner game", our term for inner confidence and such things.

If a guy really takes the pickup arts seriously, in about 3 years(it takes a while, it's not a magic pill) he will have more success than any guy he has ever seen and probably about five times more. The women will be very hot and in pretty decent quantity, too. Take the smoothest natural guy you know and magnify his results by about 5 or so, and you have an idea of what a good number of years in field can do. For those who are talented, extraordinarily motivated, and/or have been around longer, you can get insane levels of success, if success is measured in say, how many hot women seduced.

But for most guys, it just raises their self-esteem, and meets their main goal of having SOME choice in terms of a mate. Their eventually partner will be more together and slightly hotter than they would have gotten otherwise. Often dramatically.

Budai
09-23-2007, 12:29 PM
Katrine, you will be happy to know that besides what I said the other day, I have returned to my roots and I am dating strippers again. I've got a complete set going right now, a black one, a blond Ukrainian import(!!!), and an asian one. A black hooters girl too, a stripper-lite. Would you believe the black girl is actually the NICEST of the bunch? She reminds me of my mom.

Sh0t:
You live in San Diego and you consider this^^^"a complete set"? :-\

Djoser
09-23-2007, 12:57 PM
Let's begin with chapter titles...

1. SELECT A TARGET

5. ISOLATE THE TARGET

7. EXTRACT TO A SEDUCTION LOCATION

8. PUMP BUYING TEMPERATURE

10. BLAST LAST MINUTE RESISTANCE

11. MANAGE EXPECTATIONS

you should see the "glossary"

Getting back to 'The Game' itself, and what's wrong with it, here it is.

A woman is a TARGET, to be ISOLATED, EXTRACTED, PUMPED, BLASTED, and MANAGED.

It's funny as hell, actually, except that it's disgusting at the same time.

But one thing I find interesting about 'The Game' (I'm not sure if the other 'pick-up artist' type routines use it--probably), is the use of the 'neg' or the 'dis', to get a woman to like you.

These guys would have a field day in Daytona Beach, lol. The women in that town go apeshit over men who insult them. Though the 'players' in Daytona Beach are generally illiterate, it just comes naturally to them.

But you also see it pretty frequently in parts of the country where people actually read books, etc.


I do find it amusing to see men basing their self-worth on how many 'scores' they have made. It's pretty predictable, and fairly pathetic. But then look at how society treats them "He's a player.", "What a stud!".

It's also interesting that women are not praised for how many people they've slept with, but men invariably are.

stripperMBA
09-23-2007, 01:10 PM
I was at a bar recently witha friend when some guy comes up and tries some of "slick moves" on her. She only said one thing before she walked away. "Game recognize game.";D

Mastridonicus
09-23-2007, 02:53 PM
A problem with a lot of these guys is that they're chasing women who are out of their league.

The problem is when you look at it SERIOUSLY as a form of "league", it's O.K. in reference, but that 3 to 6 6 to 9 scale bullshit, is just that: fertilizer.

It's like telling some dude they wont be a good astronaut because you see them as a better factory line worker. That number scaling shit is nothing more than widely adopted form of judging someone based on your viewpoints. Hell, I do it, it's just that when you seriously apply those beliefs, then you're going to be in for a lot of surprises. The only time that scale-type shit really works, is when you believe in it so much you apply it to the person in the mirror.

Annnnnd that's why these books make so much money.



I guess it's more socially acceptable for less attractive men to go after more attractive women. The reasons would take a dissertation to explain.


And that dissertation would be built on such baseless relatives that it would serve to do nothing more than show EXACTLY where the road map of confidence diverges into insecurities and where corporate self-image product sales and marketing begin their dirty work.

However, there's just not as much money to be made in "Hey, you're fine, go after what YOU are attracted too, and if during that process you want to make yourself better so you can enjoy the process more, go for it."

Confidence breeds "I don't need", and without need, theres no sale.



Could you imagine if they had a show about unattractive women who go in bars and try to pick up very attractive men.

It would make so much money in the most perverse aspects that it is JUST a matter of time. When this show finally does air, they'll probably do it under a title like "Absolute Makeover", because what would a show like this be without a severe injection of name-brand product that could offer a security blanket to the viewer so she will look great if she's willing to hate her self image secretly enough to do the most god-awful things in hopes for a little validation through rejecting the very market she's branding herself for every day in front of the mirror that she'll still be afraid to approach the guy down the way who's getting frustrated, that even WITH his Axe Body Spray shower and new shoes, he still fears the rejection of approaching the made-over hottie at the bar. Don't worry, he'll have an excuse.

Do we see a pattern here? The relativity of attraction as sold in the shows as mentioned, not only enforce a standard for beauty but also instills an understanding that you're not the standard, but with x product/self help, you can get it. But hey, we're all putting the damage on in one form or another.



So, the book, "The Game," should be retitled: "How To Pick Up Attractive Women if You're an Unattractive Loser." ;D


See we were all cool until you went and called me a loser :)

"The Game" is an appropriate title, since the only thing that would make that name MORE appropriate is if it came with a controller.


James, don't take this personal, but you hit on some very interesting points to me that I wanted to build on. The fact is, people aren't happy. We're hammered on a daily basis to be reminded on a daily basis that "if" something would come to pass, things would be just a little bit "better". This is true in all cases, however, the whole point of any type of marketing is to increase the need of that "if".


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Beat me to the punch, babe! That's what I've seen more often than not. It's like watching some ugmug dissing girls left and right out of bitterness instead of taking a realistic look at himself.

That's the rub. Regardless of how anyone puts it, the end result is the same. You can take a realistic look at yourself and try to be better for yourself to achieve what you want. ORRRRRR, you can buy a facade that crumbles under little stress.




I couldn't do most of what passes for advice on FS.com with a straight face. Moreover, I don't think I'd have any interest in a chick that could get reeled in by it, either.
The day I tell a woman I'm attracted to to buy me a drink, followed buy her actual purchase of said drink, is the same day I lose all attraction to that woman.

What can I say? I love a woman who can kick my ass.




I don't disagree in principle, but my philosophy on the matter has always been that if you don't swing for the fences, you'll never hit a home run.


Regardless where applied. This is 100% true. As well as the true acceptance that, not only will you not hit as many home runs as you'd like, but the truth that others will hit more than you, and probably look better doing it, and that's O.K.



There is no such thing as a woman out of your league. Or rather, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You could probably use a year or two in the community.

Truth be told, picking up 9s and 10s once you understand how is actually EASIER than picking up less beautiful women due to a rather interesting quirk that most very beautiful women share.

Well what I perceive as a 9 or 10 may not lodge my nuts in my throat if I walked up to them and humorously pointed out an obvious insecurity of theirs, but I guarantee she'd never give me her number. Though the ABSOLUTE truth up there, is, now I'm going to embolden this as not to have it missed, there is NO SUCH THING as a woman out of your league . Call it what you will, but there are ONLY women you are attracted to, and women you aren't attracted to. That's an uncontrollable truth.

There IS however, women you are attracted to and intimidated by, and women you are attracted to and NOT intimidated by, and that's O.K. because if you want, really WANT, to tip that ratio in your favor, that's when Optimist's suggestion comes in to play, because you wont fix that intimidation you have in her by giving her a reason to seek validation by you, but by taking a long hard look in that mirror and making yourself a better self.

If you go after women you aren't attracted to because friends say they are attractive...well hell, you're stuck at square one.

Katrine
09-23-2007, 03:19 PM
I was at a bar recently witha friend when some guy comes up and tries some of "slick moves" on her. She only said one thing before she walked away. "Game recognize game.";D


;D ;D ;D That's fucking awesome, I'm using that in the future!

Katrine
09-23-2007, 03:29 PM
http://www.theattractionforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=123

Gross, what a bunch of douchebags. Especially that Johnny Soporno. Remember when he was on SW?
http://www.theattractionforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=283628&postcount=2

Here to "flirt" and "chat". Bitch, you can flirt and chat, but your busted ass needs to pay!


Hahahaha, this one is great. The PL tried to "neg" a girl by insulting her shoes, so she throws it at him! That sounds like my kind of girl, I would totalyl shit on guys who would sit in the club for hours and not spend if I was in an evil mode! Funny thing, I never had a fight with or real drama with any dancers, in all my years. I got my frustrations out on such losers!

http://www.theattractionforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23513

Mastridonicus
09-23-2007, 03:37 PM
Assuming that's your goal. Some of us just want to fuck women for sport and don't care about the self improvement aspect(that's the 5% I mentioned earlier). It's kind of pointless, but some people get a thrill from marching their sexual odometer up. We don't date so much as we "play." Like playing a video game or going out to play an informal game of basketball in the park or something.

And even then, this is not evil so long as honesty is out there, however, the drama quotient skyrockets depending on how little prep work you do. I bet everyone has a one-night stand and/or friend who's told them about one.



Most guys in the community(95%) are looking for a decent girlfriend actually. I'm just looking to see how long it takes to get to 1000 women seduced.


What's the tally so far? }:D



Yes, because it actually works. It's supposed to LOOK natural, even if it isn't. Everybody has routines. We all do the same "I'm from so and so and went to such and such college." We all have bits we use over and over again in conversation. The same way we talk at job interviews, when meeting a new potential fuck, whatever.
However, you are wrong on the emphasis on the community. The most often repeated word of advice is to work on "inner game", our term for inner confidence and such things.


I agree on both parts, however CO is discussing that gray area where the guys involved feel like their inner game is improving but they still don't like the reflection so they remember the 'Field Tests' that came back to their liking and run the routine. Often getting results. Problem being, as you set it before, is most in the community are looking for a "The One" then hoping she's a good girlfriend and bowing out of the game. When the edges of that gray area become visible, the facade begins to crumble. That's where the questions get asked and insecurities fly and threads wind up in customer conversation.



If a guy really takes the pickup arts seriously, in about 3 years(it takes a while, it's not a magic pill) he will have more success than any guy he has ever seen

I've always loved this selling point because YOU call it "pick up arts" I call it "Self Sales and Marketing". The paradox comes to light here when the 3 years are up. Because you start out wanting to nail hot chicks, and if that's what you want, and you achieve, you've really only done the foundation (self confidence) that is required to look best to the market you're selling yourself to. Then you CHOOSE to get aggressive/manipulative about it. I could CHOOSE to get aggressive about asking a hot chick out in a silk blouse and pantyhose and not get a single bite regardless how much I manipulate, but until I decide I want to be so successful that I will make myself successful I'm stuck churning my wheels with excuses.



But for most guys, it just raises their self-esteem, and meets their main goal of having SOME choice in terms of a mate. Their eventually partner will be more together and slightly hotter than they would have gotten otherwise. Often dramatically.

I can believe this from some of the resources, but I know "The Game" specifically plays this as "Not being a male" let alone "Alpha Male"

These people teach a cold hard truth of manipulation. Regardless of the outcome of the material as taken in by the individual, they're all saying the SAME THING and I find it disgusting that the avenue of sales is that : Everyone wants something. If you can prove to BE that something, or an integral part of getting that something, you have power over that person. EVEN if you event the want.


Sh0t:
You live in San Diego and you consider this^^^"a complete set"? :-\

And if you tell me that at SOME POINT in your passing life, what Sh0t described isn't and never was, the least bit attractive, then you've either never owned a television, or just aren't human. It's easy to call Sh0t out because he's got no problem in saying what he's doing and may even be doing it to entice a rise. But I can tell you this, 5 years ago, I would beg to be in Sh0t's shoes with a closet of toys like that. Why? Because I know Sh0t's honest and that the girls are out there that are so busy in their life that they only have time for a sexually heavy relationship and can't be concerned with monogamy. Why do I know Sh0t's honest? Cause he really doesn't give a shit.

I don't mean to be egotistical, but even I will happily say the, to some, bone chilling truth that, if a girl I am with choses to leave me, that it's only a matter of time that she will be replaced to me, and it would only be a matter of time that I would be replaced to her. Hopefully by someone else. It's a fact of life jack. We mourn our losses based on their ability for replacement in our lives.



But one thing I find interesting about 'The Game' (I'm not sure if the other 'pick-up artist' type routines use it--probably), is the use of the 'neg' or the 'dis', to get a woman to like you.

This IS, in fact, a truly disgusting method of execution. It is a cheap way to prey on an insecurity in a girl to hide your own insecurity that you aren't even worth a one-night stand to a woman without making her do it to feel validated.



It's also interesting that women are not praised for how many people they've slept with, but men invariably are.

This is a view that is slowly getting old. I know as many women that are proud of the clicker-count as I know males. SEE: "How many Penises have you had?" thread.

Ultimately I do wish people did a better job of keeping it to themselves. I have 3 rules about sexual involvement: Be Clean, Be Discreet, and Have Fun

I just personally feel that if these materials spent their time explaining that rejection is just a part of life, and the ONLY thing you can do to minimize it, is know what you want out of life and tune yourself to be your best asset in getting what you want, it wouldn't have to sound so damn manipulative. But then again, people don't want to be told they have to actually work at something until they are made to believe they want something so bad they'd do anything to get it. In this case? "Hot chicks"

WordsWordsWords.