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TigersMilk
09-23-2007, 09:31 AM
do you think its worth to pay so much more to go to a UC then a CSU? (for california)

Since they are going to jack up the fees I now see no difference from a UC to a CSU. Most jobs don't care where you graduated from as long as you did well and know your stuff.

I'm going to community college as long as I can. All this new information along with the housing market and other costs of living on CA doesnt give CA a positive financial outlook. It looks like dark clouds.

Yekhefah
09-23-2007, 09:40 AM
Good thing you didn't go to Tulane. Then you'd have really seen what it's like for people to have a complete lack of disregard for what the value of money is.

Oh yes, I know. I actually got a four-year partial scholarship to Tulane, but it still would've been $27,000 a year after the scholarship. I was doing a campus visit there and so many of the students just stared at me blankly when I brought that up, and I could tell they had no idea what $27,000 a year meant. It wouldn't have been the right school for me anyway, I just wanted to go there because I was 18, and it was prestigious and in New Orleans. I spent a lot of time in New Orleans as a kid.


i have never gone without and i'm not like britney, haha.

No, but I stand by my statement that too often a life with no hardship or struggle produces a shallow, irresponsible flake. It won't always, but it too often does.


I want to be the next Sue Johanson... only able to prescribe the Viagra! That was the goal!

Can PhD's write prescriptions in Australia? Bad ass! Over here you have to go to med school for that... that's the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist. That sounds like a great plan though. Where are you starting your bachelor's? I think I told you about my alma mater, in your little corner of the world, and I LOVED my time there. It's a great school, and if you're not eligible for HECS anyway you might as well go! Lots of international people there, very diverse and very cool.

Hatshepsut
09-23-2007, 10:21 AM
For international students: some of my international student friends here have stumbled upon scholarships that allow them to pay out-of-state or even in-state tuition. Look for anything that you can!

ViolaStrings
09-23-2007, 10:42 AM
I'm going to a state university next semester, and because by then I won't have established residency, it's going to be $8,175 for one semester.

Mr Hyde
09-23-2007, 11:01 AM
degrees are a racket, except for specific careers like doctor, lawyer, accountant, nurse, and a few other things.

most work period does not require four years in college to figure out how to do. the loss of apprenticing in the modern age is a tragedy in a lot of ways, not least because of degree inflation.

i live in a town where half the people have a BA or more, and the average household income is not that high. it is honestly a lot of underemployed people often with BAs and BSes, some of whom are married to people making six figures without a BA or BS. people grow up expecting to be 'debt free except for student loans'. that's appalling, frankly.

if college were at least something like the increasingly rare classics-derived curriculums, then it might be worth a little something. but saving up money so your kid can get a degree in communications is not really an investment, just a curious indulgence. unless it's for those few careers a structured degree program can be useful for (nursing, actuarial science, doctor, lawyer, etc)

the cult of college has done wonders to separate people from pursuit of actual knowledge and useful, lifelong skills. i see a ton of low-pay jobs (10-12/hr) in this degreed town 'requiring a degree', because if a degree isn't really necessary, then why is everyone else in the office 50k in debt and making 13.25 per hour?

so ipso facto, a darn degree is 'needed'.

i'm not paying for school for my kids. if they want university, i hope to raise them well enough that they can figure out how to pay for it themselves. and i hope even more that i can raise them to not desire university and instead seek financial security, which a university degree has never offered as a matter of course, only incident.

I disagree. While you might be right that most jobs do not require the specific knowledge that one gets in, say, a management or communication degree, what employers DO want to see is that job candidates have a background in the arts and letters and can hold their own intellectually. Making it through 4 years of college is what lets employers know that a candidate has that background. It's not a racket, it's more like a screening process...eliminating those without degrees for certain jobs saves a TON of time and effort.

Casual Observer
09-23-2007, 11:02 AM
If education is so important in this country why are they trying to price everyone out of it?

Ironically, it's not because the faculty are getting rich with pay raises, it's because students and parents have made higher education more expensive by demanding more from their institutions--more plush dorms, more high-speed internet access and computer labs, more expansive and comprehensive health care options, more impressive athletic facilities and teams (I fucking hate that in particular), more grandiose fitness centers, more elaborate dining options, et al. Schools know that lifestyle options play a role in determining where students and parents want to go and spend a lot of money over four years. So parents and students have been getting exactly what they've been asking for--and now they have to pay for it. This is why going the community college route early on makes a great deal of sense for a lot of folks--it's just a better value. It was for me, anyway. That said, $3K/quarter is still pretty cheap.


most work period does not require four years in college to figure out how to do.

Perhaps not, but if you want to work with advancement opportunities (both professional and financial), you need a decent degree to get your foot in the door. The degree isn't the proof you know what you're doing, it's proof you're capable of a process of thinking and learning, and that you're capable of completing that process. I'd not be so quick to devalue degrees, unless of course you're going to work blue-collar jobs, in which case, apprenticeships and technical schools are a better route.

In full disclosure, I have a BA and an MA that were very expensive--it's like having a mortgage for a house I can't live in--and I will probably never use either of them professionally. But I also received tens of thousands of dollars in scholarships to take the edge off the pain. Every year, $7 billion of education monies go unused and unallocated in this country, because people don't know how to get it.


just because parents pay for school doesnt mean kids are drinking and partying! i drink and party, as you know, but i've always had really good grades and stuff too. having fun does not = no responsibility.

I'm with Yek on this. I wouldn't pay for a kid's undergrad degree; I've seen far too many kids on Mommy and Daddy's money just binge drinking their way to failure or mediocre performance academically. Especially the girls in the Communications program (it's always all girls in Comm, isn't it?)...God, I don't know what it was, but I couldn't figure out for the life of me how the hell they got accepted into school. Anyway, if the kid can hack undergrad, I'd help them swing their grad degrees, since they'd have a track record of success.

britt244
09-23-2007, 11:05 AM
I'm with Yek on this. I wouldn't pay for a kid's undergrad degree; I've seen far too many kids on Mommy and Daddy's money just binge drinking their way to failure or mediocre performance academically. Especially the girls in the Communications program (it's always all girls in Comm, isn't it?)...God, I don't know what it was, but I couldn't figure out for the life of me how the hell they got accepted into school. Anyway, if the kid can hack undergrad, I'd help them swing their grad degrees, since they'd have a track record of success.

see.. i just find that to be an unfair stereotype. but that's just me... like i said, mommy and daddy might not be all too proud of a lot of other things i've done (dui, dancing) but they're sure as hell proud of the fact that i'm an A & B student with an amazing internship that has already offered me a position after graduation. the drinking etc might have been a problem but it was separate from school entirely and never had any affect on my classes.

BrunetteGoddess
09-23-2007, 11:16 AM
Then that means you are the exception Britt, not the rule.

britt244
09-23-2007, 11:18 AM
Then that means you are the exception Britt, not the rule.

i just feel like that's so unfair. totally different, but use strippers as an example! it's a stereotype that we're all dirty, cracked out, whatever.. are the girls here the exception? so therefore we shouldnt mind that stereotype. makes sense if you're saying i shouldn't mind the stereotype that it seems like you guys kind of believe :-\

Casual Observer
09-23-2007, 11:21 AM
it's a stereotype that we're all dirty, cracked out, whatever.. are the girls here the exception?

I think it's widely acknowledged that girls posting on SW are the exception to the rule for strippers more broadly; a cursory examination of the posts in this recent thread (http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91361) illustrates that quite well.

britt244
09-23-2007, 11:31 AM
^ but that's my point. we aren't ok with that stereotype even though we aren't the norm, and i'm not ok with you guys stereotyping people who have parents who pay for school.

i think that those who have gone without think that that would be best for their child, and i think those who haven't don't. and i don't really think we can see each other's pov without being there.

BrunetteGoddess
09-23-2007, 11:50 AM
Um, my parents actually did pay for my college when I went, and I still feel the way I do.

sxybrat07
09-23-2007, 11:50 AM
Eh, sorry, but I agree with Yek and CO. My parents paid for school for 1 year, and I didn't do NEARLY as well as I do now, having to pay for it on my own. In my experience, people who don't have to go through the hardships don't appreciate it nearly as much. *shrug*

BrunetteGoddess
09-23-2007, 11:52 AM
I agree Sxy. I didn't do nearly as good in college when my parents paid as when I did.

stripperMBA
09-23-2007, 12:12 PM
Ironically, it's not because the faculty are getting rich with pay raises, it's because students and parents have made higher education more expensive by demanding more from their institutions--more plush dorms, more high-speed internet access and computer labs, more expansive and comprehensive health care options, more impressive athletic facilities and teams (I fucking hate that in particular), more grandiose fitness centers, more elaborate dining options, et al. Schools know that lifestyle options play a role in determining where students and parents want to go and spend a lot of money over four years. So parents and students have been getting exactly what they've been asking for--and now they have to pay for it. This is why going the community college route early on makes a great deal of sense for a lot of folks--it's just a better value. It was for me, anyway. That said, $3K/quarter is still pretty cheap..
I especially have to agreee with the athletic teams statement. At the university I went to they built a new multi million dollar facility for a very bad football team. This when there was a deperate need for a huge parking garage. But they would not build a parking garage because that would take away from money the campus police made from tickets. The football team there was funnelled through easier classes to be sure that they could play. If I wanted a really easy class for the semester I would take one of the classes the football players where scheduled in.
A degree is very necesary to get a good job. It may be just a hoop to jump through, but it is still neccesary.

Budai
09-23-2007, 12:41 PM
I especially have to agreee with the athletic teams statement. At the university I went to they built a new multi million dollar facility for a very bad football team.

sMBA:
Your quote reminded me that for many years, former UCLA CoachTerry Donahue was California's highest-paid state employee...

Yekhefah
09-23-2007, 12:45 PM
Especially the girls in the Communications program (it's always all girls in Comm, isn't it?)...God, I don't know what it was, but I couldn't figure out for the life of me how the hell they got accepted into school.

Why all the hating on Comm in this thread? My BA was in communications (with a concentration in film & video production) and I graduated with honors while working 50+ hours a week. And BTW, my department was largely male, like the film industry itself.

Melonie
09-23-2007, 12:49 PM
On the subject of parents paying / contributing to tuition, I have been on both sides of this issue. After my divorce, I scrimped and saved not only to dig myself out from under the left-over marital debts I was saddled with, but also to pay for my own college tuition ... which wound up being as much community college courses as possible for purely economic reasons. Because my course of study was Respiratory Therapy, which ultimately involved obtaining state certifications and licenses, the 'rating' of the college really didn't make much difference in either the job opportunities available upon graduation or the advancement opportunities beyond entry level.

On the other hand, here I am many years later contributing big time to my son's college tuition. However, since he is a fine arts major (graphic artist and painter), there is a great deal of differential between the 'perceived' talent level of those attending a community college versus those attending a 'name' school. This 'perception', in conjunction with the professional contacts which can be made while at a 'name' school versus a community college, makes for a HUGE difference in the career opportunities that will become available after graduation. As there is no way that he could afford a 'name' school on his own, I am supplementing his tuition payments big time.

Circling back on point, my son clearly recognizes not only the 'faith' that I am showing in his talents by ponying up large tuition payments. But my son also clearly recognizes the difference that my contributions will make to his future career opportunities by allowing him to have access to internships and contacts that will 'jump-start' his career after graduation via attending a 'name' school.

My point is that there is nothing inherently good or bad about parents assisting with tuition payments. What IS good or bad is the attitude of the student in regard to receiving that assistance. Any of us who have attended college have seen and spent time with 'trust fund' students ... who take it for granted that their tuition payments, and their after graduation financial needs for that matter, will automatically be taken care of. The 'trust fund' attitude is the bad part, but it is not necessary for parents to force the student to work / borrow their asses off in order to avoid that attitude being adopted.

stripperMBA
09-23-2007, 01:01 PM
However, since he is a fine arts major (graphic artist and painter), there is a great deal of differential between the 'perceived' talent level of those attending a community college versus those attending a 'name' school. This 'perception', in conjunction with the professional contacts which can be made while at a 'name' school versus a community college, makes for a HUGE difference in the career opportunities that will become available after graduation. .
:listen2: I hear you on that one Melonie. Makes me think about economic class divisions in the future. Where the only ones with really usefull degrees (outside of nurses, health fields, and lawyers) are those who could afford to go to a top tier university.

Mr Hyde
09-23-2007, 01:23 PM
i just feel like that's so unfair. totally different, but use strippers as an example! it's a stereotype that we're all dirty, cracked out, whatever.. are the girls here the exception? so therefore we shouldnt mind that stereotype. makes sense if you're saying i shouldn't mind the stereotype that it seems like you guys kind of believe :-\

Britt, I'm with you. And I also think that if you have kids, you owe it to them to put them thru college, and that you should make every effort yo do so. My parents did it for me (although they also made me contribute as well with jobs of my own), and IMO, it's one of the responsibilities of a parent.

britt244
09-23-2007, 01:31 PM
^ yup. my parents pay for school with a small portion of loans put in my name. that way i'll have a little bit to deal with after graduation, but not all of it. and they started out paying my rent, then paying it but me paying utilities, now they pay part of the rent, and when i finish school they won't pay it at all. they eased me into it instead of just throwing it all at me and expecting me to be able to do it myself.

Hatshepsut
09-23-2007, 01:33 PM
There's def problems both way. If you pay for stuff, there's more of a chance that they'll just take it for granted. If you don't, then they'll be swamped with loans and have to work so much that their grades will suffer. If I ever put someone through college, I'll so it on a sliding reimbursement scale. Every A will yield a 100% reimbursement,a B will be 50%, etc.

It's true, the best gift a parent can give a child is independence and success, and that they should be able to provide. I appreciate the fact that my dad paid for 3 years of college. I'm now putting myself through nursing school, and I'm appreciating it a lot more.

I also think that it's dumb for many people to attend college straight out of high school. So many people see that it's not all it's cracked up to be, or see it as a party, or simply aren't prepared. I think that more people should take a year off or travel. I didn't know what I was doing when I was 18. I had never really worked, and I was attending school because I didn't know what else I'd be doing. I did well in school, bu at the same time, i was going nowhere. However, a lot of schools will drop scholarships if you don't attend right away, which sucks.

miabella
09-23-2007, 01:43 PM
as i noted in my post, most of the people in this town have degrees or are working on them. the 'degrees are a filter to prove you can do the same thing for four years!' myth is just a way for people with degrees to preserve the value of their degrees.

the increasing number of people who do not get a degree in four consecutive years illustrates that. in my experience, EXPERIENCE is what employers like to see, and a degree with no experience only wins out over experience if the people hiring have degrees.

being able to complete a watered down curriculum with grade inflation where you can get a bunch of A's through bullying the teachers (happens all the time these days) is hardly a useful filter for hiring employees.

so many people have degrees now that it truly is no longer valuable in itself. but when you've spent a fortune, you have to justify the expenditure, hence all the talk about how doing a degree for 4(or 5 or 6 or 10 increasingly) years is intrinsically better a means of determining employee worth than any other measure.

a degree is not necessary for the vast majority of entry level and a large proportion of midlevel jobs. four years or more of actual relevant work experience generally is worth as much and sometimes a little more, since that is four years+ clearly on-topic, so to speak.

i've just seen waaaay too many underemployed people with degrees and well-employed people without them to buy into the 'college folk are smarter/better' mythos.

Mr Hyde
09-23-2007, 02:36 PM
as i noted in my post, most of the people in this town have degrees or are working on them. the 'degrees are a filter to prove you can do the same thing for four years!' myth is just a way for people with degrees to preserve the value of their degrees.

the increasing number of people who do not get a degree in four consecutive years illustrates that. in my experience, EXPERIENCE is what employers like to see, and a degree with no experience only wins out over experience if the people hiring have degrees.

being able to complete a watered down curriculum with grade inflation where you can get a bunch of A's through bullying the teachers (happens all the time these days) is hardly a useful filter for hiring employees.

so many people have degrees now that it truly is no longer valuable in itself. but when you've spent a fortune, you have to justify the expenditure, hence all the talk about how doing a degree for 4(or 5 or 6 or 10 increasingly) years is intrinsically better a means of determining employee worth than any other measure.

a degree is not necessary for the vast majority of entry level and a large proportion of midlevel jobs. four years or more of actual relevant work experience generally is worth as much and sometimes a little more, since that is four years+ clearly on-topic, so to speak.

i've just seen waaaay too many underemployed people with degrees and well-employed people without them to buy into the 'college folk are smarter/better' mythos.

It's not a "myth." I hire people regularly for jobs and if I had to slog thru a gazillion resumes of people without degrees, I'd never be able to find anyone. Making it thru college gives one a thorough basis in what one needs to function professionally...that's why undergraduates have to take two years of things that they think "I'll never use."

Wrong. They'll use all of that intro psych and college algebra every day for the rest of their lives when they are able to hold intelligent conversations on just about any topic. I am NOT saying you can't skip college and be intelligent/knowledgeable, but having that degree pretty much (PRETTY much) ensures it.

Djoser
09-23-2007, 02:40 PM
What is education worth to you? Mountains of debt? Loans so big you'll still be paying when you roll over in your grave?

Where I went to college the tuition alone is now over 100,000$ for four years.

I was fortunate and got a scholarship which covered that (though it was less then), and most of my living expenses. I have heard that scholarships are getting harder to obtain these days, though.

I wouldn't trade my years there for anything, but would I pay 100,000$ for it? Probably not...

Was it worth 100,000$? Hell yes, regardless of whether I would pay it myself. I'm a cheap motherfucker after years of being an artist, lol.

Djoser
09-23-2007, 02:49 PM
They'll use all of that intro psych and college algebra every day for the rest of their lives when they are able to hold intelligent conversations on just about any topic.

The basic premise of the classical 'Liberal Arts' model of college education.

Ironically enough, if I had been given the chance to switch universities when I found out I was required to take physics, philosophy, sociology, etc., etc., I would have leaped on it. I was pissed off when I found out what I had gotten myself into. I just wanted to be an Egyptologist, not learn about fucking molecular stacking structures.

Would I trade the experience for another? Not now.

It's called 'training the brain'. Sure, I'll never actually use that knowledge of molecular stacking structure directly, but having forced my brain to comprehend it (albeit imperfectly, that was some heavy shit, I'll tell you!), my brain was significantly improved, and much more capable of grappling with other unfamiliar problems.

Katrine
09-23-2007, 04:46 PM
Children that take college education for granted and drink away their tuition aren't born when they turn 18 and lug their shit into a dorm. They have been taught those values, or lack theroff, throughout the course of their lives.

Maybe most of you have seen some assholes in your educational institutions, but where I went to school, there were a TON of hardworking, intelligent, and ambitious students. Some had their education covered.

To say that most kids would waste away a free education is short-sighted. Do you assume the same about kids who receive grants and scholarships? They are also not paying for school!

There are way too many factors to consider before some of you go about calling students like Britt an "exception."

And a big thanks to Melonie for your post!

Mr Hyde
09-23-2007, 06:11 PM
The basic premise of the classical 'Liberal Arts' model of college education.

Ironically enough, if I had been given the chance to switch universities when I found out I was required to take physics, philosophy, sociology, etc., etc., I would have leaped on it. I was pissed off when I found out what I had gotten myself into. I just wanted to be an Egyptologist, not learn about fucking molecular stacking structures.

Would I trade the experience for another? Not now.

It's called 'training the brain'. Sure, I'll never actually use that knowledge of molecular stacking structure directly, but having forced my brain to comprehend it (albeit imperfectly, that was some heavy shit, I'll tell you!), my brain was significantly improved, and much more capable of grappling with other unfamiliar problems.

Yep, you got it.

And sure, college is often a big party, but too many people assume that college is JUST a party and that students never study or anything. THAT'S your myth right there. The process by which one learns everything from cellular mitosis to conflict theory is what makes the degree such a sought-after commodity by employers who want to fill a professional position.

Bella21
09-23-2007, 07:52 PM
I didn't read this whole thread cuz I'm lazy.. but...

WORD! Dude, I saw that on the news and I was so grateful that I slipped through the cracks to finish up before that. It's only going to get worse. They discovered a new way to gouge money.

saphire123456
09-23-2007, 08:51 PM
i dunno whether its stripping that raised my money standards, but the paycheck that comes with a bs/ba just doesn't seem that exciting anymore...work more hours for less money? thanks a lot! i got my BS 3 years ago and all my friends were exctatic getting the 30-40k jobs, so i jumped on the trainwagon and got one too, luckily i came to my senses soon enough. now i'm going for my mba, and according to my school's website the avg salary w/ that is $76,500. More exciting but it still doesn't come close to stripping. i know in 20 years i'll prolly sing a different tune when i'm too old to dance so hopefully that $2500 per class i'm schlepping out will pay off in the end

AmberHoney
09-29-2007, 05:16 PM
School is insanely expensive, especially if you go to a private university and are in grad school... like myself.

I'd recommend not working for a full year and then applying for all the grants that you can get.

Make sure that your estimated family contribution is ZERO. Then you can take out like up to 8k in federal loans for your day to days.

I'm paying out the ASS this year... but next year, since the income I'll report is less than 6k and I was living with someone else and he was the head of household... I'll have a full ride.

The money is out there. There is no shortage on money to go to school, ESPECIALLY for an undergrad.

krchab99
09-29-2007, 05:22 PM
For me i would like to help pay for my kids freshmen and sophmore year but after that i don't feel resposiable at all they will be adults and I would have given them a good headstart.

Paris
09-29-2007, 06:34 PM
I guess you could just get your education from Yale or MIT for free. Free undergrad classes @ Yale (yes the Ivy league school!). (http://www.yale.edu/opa/newsr/06-09-19-01.all.html)

Or you can attend real classes at MIT for free as well. (http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm)

You won't get the diploma or the credits, but what does it matter if you have the knowledge? Go out and make your own way with that fancy new education!

BalletBaby
09-29-2007, 09:22 PM
i just feel like that's so unfair. totally different, but use strippers as an example! it's a stereotype that we're all dirty, cracked out, whatever.. are the girls here the exception? so therefore we shouldnt mind that stereotype. makes sense if you're saying i shouldn't mind the stereotype that it seems like you guys kind of believe :-\

I'm with you britt. I really hate stereotypes. Yes, my parents pay my tuition, but I don't go out binge drinking every night. In fact, I rarely go out at all anymore. Even though I have a lot of trouble with concentration I still try and spend as much time on the weekends as I can studying. I realize how lucky I am and don't take my parents for granted. I don't believe mommy and daddy paying for tuition is what makes a child completely irresponsible. It's how you are raised. And trust me, there are plenty of kids around here who I want to slap some sense into because they obviosly have no manners.