View Full Version : Drugs Suck
zxcire
10-05-2007, 02:15 PM
LadySoft, what you don't seem to understand is that once a person becomes addicted to drugs, physical changes take place in the brain which make it impossible for an addict to successfully cut back on drug use.
Yes, an addict's brain is fundamentally changed by substance abuse.
Physically. It is not mental strength or willpower as you are contending. Read this link and other sources on substance abuse and educate yourself on the reality of addiction, please. It might help you understand better why weaining and replacement with other drugs DOES NOT work.
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/units/addiction/drugs/
http://www.hbo.com/addiction/understanding_addiction/12_pleasure_pathway.html
LadySoft
10-05-2007, 02:19 PM
We do agree on this. I prefer the consequences (or relative lack therof) of weed, to the consequences of cocaine. However, I prefer the high of cocaine. Which leads us to:
I speak only for myself here. Will power and self-control /mental power come into play when the drugs are out of my system. Like right now. The problem I have with what you are saying is that doing coke leads to doing more coke. Not less. That's what it means to be addicted. I develop a tolerance, and need more, not less to get the same euphoric effect. I get cravings. You may be able to condition your mind, but not while you are conditioning your body with drugs.
psychologically speaking, when you condition your mind, you therefore conditon your body...for your information you are conditioning your mind to be less dependent on it, not to have less of it to make you want more for the effects... the situation here is eliminating the dependence of the drug not lessening it to make you want more of it. once that is established then you can go from there, but cutting the drug abruptly will only make you want more of it.
how else can someone quit a drug that bad without the mental capability? Its almost the same thing they do in rehab, once you are in there, you are forced to muster up enough will power to stay off the drug.
Hatshepsut
10-05-2007, 05:01 PM
I hate pot because it made me sleepy when I tried it, and my bf had to quit it because it gave him erectile dysfunction.
Katrine
10-05-2007, 06:32 PM
The addict has no willpower. They have rescinded control to the drug.
LadySoft
10-05-2007, 07:15 PM
The addict has no willpower. They have rescinded control to the drug.
so how do people overcome being an addict?
DylanAngel
10-05-2007, 07:27 PM
The addict has no willpower. They have rescinded control to the drug.
Kat, as usual, you are the voice of experience and reason.
LS, for you to tell an addict to use their willpower to overcome their addiction is like spitting in the fucking wind.
Like in the other thread, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And before you question someone like me, or Britt or Kat, I suggest you get to know our stories first.
LadySoft
10-05-2007, 07:30 PM
Kat, as usual, you are the voice of experience and reason.
LS, for you to tell an addict to use their willpower to overcome their addiction is like spitting in the fucking wind.
Like in the other thread, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And before you question someone like me, or Britt or Kat, I suggest you get to know our stories first.
it still doesn't answer the question. the people that overcame drug addiction, how did they do it?
I'm not here to put down anyone. I don't know anyone here. I'm willing to hear your story. I'm not here to fight with anyone. If you wanna tell you story, tell. I'll listen...
DylanAngel
10-05-2007, 07:36 PM
I have told my story here more than once. And give Kat and Britt some major congats with their own struggles. But I can tell you that my quitting had NOTHING to do with willpower.
It had to do with whether or not I wanted to live to see my grandchildren...that's not willpower; that's submission.
LadySoft
10-05-2007, 07:39 PM
so you had the mental capability to submit? you made up you mind and said," i'm gonna submit and you did it...its mental and that requires will power. Because if you made that decision in your mind, you won't always be a slave to the drug.
Because no one can sit and come out one day and say, "i'm quitting."And the addiction disappers. It doesn't work that way. The mind has to be willing for the flesh to eventually give in and you need will power for that.
DylanAngel
10-05-2007, 07:43 PM
You are absolutely clueless. My mind, EVERYDAY, says do it. It's the pills I have to take to combat the depression that made me do coke at all that tell me NOT to do it.
Willpower has nothing to do with it.
Hatshepsut
10-05-2007, 07:45 PM
It had to do with whether or not I wanted to live to see my grandchildren...that's not willpower; that's submission.
That sounds like perspective as well.
DylanAngel
10-05-2007, 07:49 PM
That sounds like perspective as well.
Did I ever tell you how wise I think you are?
Katrine
10-05-2007, 07:55 PM
Dylan, Britt, and Hatshepsut, you have my deepest respect.
Sophie...an addict never overcomes addiction. They will forever be an addict. Its something you are born with. However, there are ways to prevent it from taking over your life. And yes, some of that included personal accountability and clarity of mind. But ultimately, if the choice is between using and willpower, the using will eventually win out.
LadySoft
10-05-2007, 07:55 PM
You are absolutely clueless. My mind, EVERYDAY, says do it. It's the pills I have to take to combat the depression that made me do coke at all that tell me NOT to do it.
Willpower has nothing to do with it.
so then you submitted to pills? what brought about the decision? is this the same mind that wanted the coke all the time?
DylanAngel
10-05-2007, 08:04 PM
so then you submitted to pills? what brought about the decision? is this the same mind that wanted the coke all the time?
What in the H E Double Hockey Sticks are you talking about. Submitted to pills? I am taking anti-depressants. How is getting better and dealing with my demons the same as doing coke which numbs it all out.
Oh and Kat and Britt...I, as one of the official "Moms" of SW, am so freaking proud of both of you.
Hatshepsut
10-05-2007, 08:47 PM
Dylan, Britt, and Hatshepsut, you have my deepest respect.
Thanks, although I've actually never had a problem with drug addiction. I hate alcohol and pot and altered consciousness in general. Also, as a nurse, I get checked regularly for drugs. Losing your career and license does wonders for incentive to keep clean, although a lot of nurses have substance abuse and filch narcotics.
I don't claim to know what it's like, I don't wish to judge, and please correct me if I am making wrongful assumptions. This is what I have seen.
I really witnessed addictions for the first time during my psychiatric nursing rotation. Not only was I in detox wards, but I also had to attend an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. The AA meeting was something else. While I like the principles behind it (reaching out, being there for each other in a neutral and confidential place), I could see that many were trading one addiction for another. You know how when you're trying to drown out annoying noises, you plug your ears and start humming loudly? A lot of people tried to love Jesus so fucking much in order to drown out the cravings for drugs and alcohol. It's so true: there is such a thing as an addictive personality. Some people need to find SOMETHING to be passionate about/enjoy/feel stabilized. Cocaine today, Kaballah tomorrow, Jesus the next day, a joined-at-the-hip girlfriend the day after. Many of them will always be addictive people, and I've really seen two good/productive outcomes. 1) Finding addictions/passions that aren't so destructive, like throwing yourself into charity work or school. 2) Learn how to temper it with behavioral and cognitive therapy and psychotropic medications like DylanAngel.
While on the psych wards, I learned very quickly to NEVER say things like, "I know how you feel," or give backseat advice/comments/critiques UNLESS you have actually been there. If you haven't been there, you'd damn well better listen and learn the principles, not judge, use perspective and reflection to help the person since you can't relate, and thank god that you don't have to go through their problem. If you have been there and can relate, good. A lot of patients really warmed up to me when I shared my experiences of depression, suicide attempts, being kicked out of my house at age 16, and psych hospitalization. However, if you can't, don't.
britt244
10-06-2007, 12:00 AM
Dylan, Britt, and Hatshepsut, you have my deepest respect.
Sophie...an addict never overcomes addiction. They will forever be an addict. Its something you are born with. However, there are ways to prevent it from taking over your life. And yes, some of that included personal accountability and clarity of mind. But ultimately, if the choice is between using and willpower, the using will eventually win out.
What in the H E Double Hockey Sticks are you talking about. Submitted to pills? I am taking anti-depressants. How is getting better and dealing with my demons the same as doing coke which numbs it all out.
Oh and Kat and Britt...I, as one of the official "Moms" of SW, am so freaking proud of both of you.
thank you both :) that means a lot coming from you two! i look up to girls like you so much. kat, i've told you that before, and dylan, your story scares me because i'm afraid that will be me. its amazing that you've gotten past it not only once. just like youre on anti depressants, i'm desperate for anxiety medicine because whenever i do have anxiety now, which is a lot of the time, it brings back memories of doing coke. i replaced coke with alcohol and now that thats gone, i'm kind of a mess. it really frustrates me to see people who think they know whats best, and insist on it, when really you have to have been there to understand.
erotictonic
10-06-2007, 03:32 AM
I disagree that between using and willpower, the using will eventually win out.
It has to do with environment.
If you try to quit doing coke but surround yourself with coke users, you probably won't be able to quit.
If you decide that you are going to quit doing coke, and you put yourself around people that hate coke and everything about it, guess what, you just put yourself in a place where you will more-than-likely quit doing coke.
You can reprogram yourself, and I believe over time you can change yourself from an addictive personality to an individual with strong beliefs. It all has to do with the choices you make.
Taylorlila
10-06-2007, 07:10 AM
it might not help but doing less and less of the coke might help. its a mind thing. the person has to be committed to it.
SIGH AGAIN. no. i am sorry but a cocaine addict cannot tell themselves that they want to do a few lines and then stop and actually do it.
and im finished responding to you.
Yup, I have to side with Britt, from my own experiences, and from being around him, I know theres no "we'll just do a couple lines, then we won't do anymore." I've driven to Boston with this kid because, a couple lines wasn't enough. If only it were that easy. Will power might stop you for a while, but then, your at a party and somebody pulls out a bag of coke...then what? Or your girlfriend dumps you and youre so fucking depressed...then what? If it were that easy...gosh I wouldn't know so many addicts.
But I didn't want to start an argument over how to stop addiction, I just wanted a little support, and maybe to talk to some people who have been there. So stop fighting please?
Yes, drugs do suck in many ways.Just a couple days ago I had my first experience with taking E. Yikes, what a big mistake. I was with a friend of mine. He seems to be big into drugs. And he's 29 and still on with that stuff. Maybe he's super lonely, who knows. But on the outside, he's super-good-looking, fun to be with, sexy, outgoing, etc...quite a flip-flop right? And he said that with Ecstasy there isn't really a "down" that you get.. Well, maybe not for him, but I felt tired, and worse. Oh, and he'll probably end up with Alzheimer's disease at age 35...or Parkinson's disease soon...if he keeps up with it... He's totally hooked on it. It's baad.
I ended up getting sick on that stuff. I wasn't sure how pure it was, and didn't know there was such thing as drug testting kits (you can order them from DanceSafe...some place in California...that I guess you add some chemical on it, see the color outcome, and it says how pure it is, if it contains DXM, etc).
I think I got sick on it because I had some cocktail drink maybe? Or maybe it was the estrogen from my birthcontrol pill? Well those two aren't very likely. All I know is we had half a pill...it wasn't really hitting me very much...I felt good and different, but that's about it. Then a couple hours later I had 1 pill... All I felt was very sleepy. Then a couple hours after he left, I ended up feeling nauseous..I wanted to puke. So I induced it, it felt much better...But I kept trying to get more and more up, because that felt good. Then I got the bad shivers...had to take a hot shower. Then the next couple hours I'd once in a while get up and drink more water and try to puke up whatever was in me. And I remember just saying "never again..never again!" It was sort of scary, because I was worried, like "oh no, now i'll end up croaking in the bathroom, what a shame...that's no like me. It wasn't good at all. And then by noon time I was feeling better, but still out of it, tired, groggy...my mind still slow.
Then I looked up all kinds of info...about drugs mixed with some other stuff...there was some article on some drug MPPP mixed with some other stuff that actually caused parkinson's disease in the people who took it, because the fake stuff added in it was a biggg neurotoxin.
Drugs "worse"than marijuana, like coke, E, etc...can really screw up your mind. I bet if you do it often, you're more likely todevelop neurological problems when you're older (like alzzheimer's or what not) because the drugs litterally end up messing up your synapses, etc...
I think when I finally read up on the effects of drugs damaging your brain...I was like "yikes". All i've known adn heard is that drugs are "bad" for you...but if you read up on the biological impact of those things on your brain, liver, body...it really can help scare you. I don't want to be like mohammed ali...maybe he has Parkinson's because of all the banging around he got...but maybe it was from ddrug use too...
Ooph, yes, I'll stay away from this stuff.
LadySoft
10-06-2007, 05:13 PM
But I didn't want to start an argument over how to stop addiction, I just wanted a little support, and maybe to talk to some people who have been there. So stop fighting please?
No fight here.Just trying to have a stimulating conversation. At least people have something to say...no strength to fight but a mature argument doesn't hurt. ;)
LadySoft
10-06-2007, 05:27 PM
Yes, drugs do suck in many ways.Just a couple days ago I had my first experience with taking E. Yikes, what a big mistake. I was with a friend of mine. He seems to be big into drugs. And he's 29 and still on with that stuff. Maybe he's super lonely, who knows. But on the outside, he's super-good-looking, fun to be with, sexy, outgoing, etc...quite a flip-flop right? And he said that with Ecstasy there isn't really a "down" that you get.. Well, maybe not for him, but I felt tired, and worse. Oh, and he'll probably end up with Alzheimer's disease at age 35...or Parkinson's disease soon...if he keeps up with it... He's totally hooked on it. It's baad.
I ended up getting sick on that stuff. I wasn't sure how pure it was, and didn't know there was such thing as drug testting kits (you can order them from DanceSafe...some place in California...that I guess you add some chemical on it, see the color outcome, and it says how pure it is, if it contains DXM, etc).
I think I got sick on it because I had some cocktail drink maybe? Or maybe it was the estrogen from my birthcontrol pill? Well those two aren't very likely. All I know is we had half a pill...it wasn't really hitting me very much...I felt good and different, but that's about it. Then a couple hours later I had 1 pill... All I felt was very sleepy. Then a couple hours after he left, I ended up feeling nauseous..I wanted to puke. So I induced it, it felt much better...But I kept trying to get more and more up, because that felt good. Then I got the bad shivers...had to take a hot shower. Then the next couple hours I'd once in a while get up and drink more water and try to puke up whatever was in me. And I remember just saying "never again..never again!" It was sort of scary, because I was worried, like "oh no, now i'll end up croaking in the bathroom, what a shame...that's no like me. It wasn't good at all. And then by noon time I was feeling better, but still out of it, tired, groggy...my mind still slow.
Then I looked up all kinds of info...about drugs mixed with some other stuff...there was some article on some drug MPPP mixed with some other stuff that actually caused parkinson's disease in the people who took it, because the fake stuff added in it was a biggg neurotoxin.
Drugs "worse"than marijuana, like coke, E, etc...can really screw up your mind. I bet if you do it often, you're more likely todevelop neurological problems when you're older (like alzzheimer's or what not) because the drugs litterally end up messing up your synapses, etc...
I think when I finally read up on the effects of drugs damaging your brain...I was like "yikes". All i've known adn heard is that drugs are "bad" for you...but if you read up on the biological impact of those things on your brain, liver, body...it really can help scare you. I don't want to be like mohammed ali...maybe he has Parkinson's because of all the banging around he got...but maybe it was from ddrug use too...
Ooph, yes, I'll stay away from this stuff.
One time I wanted to inquire about E, and I was told that there is no such thing as pure E nowadays. Its always getting cut with some other drug....crazy!
One of my customer that used to use drugs back in her days, told me that methamphetamine rearranges the brain cell structure. Once that happens, your brain never returns to normal.
Andygirl
10-08-2007, 02:07 PM
so how do people overcome being an addict?
The vast majority never overcome it. Some are fortunate enough to find treatment options that work for them, more do not. And addiction can manifest in more ways than just going back to the drug that originally started the chain of events that led you to become an addict.
I used to drink tons, and now I don't touch a drop. But I'm still as much of an addict (even moreso) than I ever was. It is something that is very difficult to explain to someone who has never dealt with the disease.
Taylorlila
10-09-2007, 08:50 AM
No fight here.Just trying to have a stimulating conversation. At least people have something to say...no strength to fight but a mature argument doesn't hurt. ;)
It doesn't hurt it just doesn't have so much to do with my post.
LadySoft
10-09-2007, 09:48 AM
It doesn't hurt it just doesn't have so much to do with my post.
No problem. My lips are officially sealed on this post.
Taylorlila
10-09-2007, 10:30 AM
Its not that I don't wnat your opinion at all, its just that I posted this because I was upset about someone I cared about having this big issue and I just wanted some support and it turned into a how and how not to cure addiction thing.
Silky
10-09-2007, 10:45 AM
hahaha!! funny...very funny but yet closed-minded. i rather smoke weed than sniff/smoke crack and look like a walking corpse.
Well yea.....i think most people would agree that they don't want to look like a walking corpse....nice post(inserts sarcasm here.)
LadySoft
10-09-2007, 08:45 PM
Its not that I don't wnat your opinion at all, its just that I posted this because I was upset about someone I cared about having this big issue and I just wanted some support and it turned into a how and how not to cure addiction thing.
I didn't mean to totally via off the topic, but sometimes you have to wonder off the topic a little to get a post going....4 pages into the post, at least people have something to say regarding the title - Drug Suck. Yea, drugs suck because people get hooked on it and they can't get off it... the title is rich and therefore open to vast and different discussions.
erotictonic
10-10-2007, 03:26 AM
I didn't mean to totally via off the topic, but sometimes you have to wonder off the topic a little to get a post going....4 pages into the post, at least people have something to say regarding the title - Drug Suck. Yea, drugs suck because people get hooked on it and they can't get off it... the title is rich and therefore open to vast and different discussions.
You didn't honor the thread and the poster who started the thread looking for support. I do it all the time. Don't go by your own set of rules and then make excuses for what you did, as if what you did was the right thing. Accept that it wasn't.
Taylorlila
10-10-2007, 07:13 AM
^^
Yeah its not a big deal or anything, I was just tired of hearing how this and that and the other thing might help him, when I know it won't, and it wouldn't matter anyway because I'm not even in touch with him these days. It was just a really upsetting thing to hear :(.
britt244
10-10-2007, 09:36 AM
I didn't mean to totally via off the topic, but sometimes you have to wonder off the topic a little to get a post going....4 pages into the post, at least people have something to say regarding the title - Drug Suck. Yea, drugs suck because people get hooked on it and they can't get off it... the title is rich and therefore open to vast and different discussions.
wronggggggg. the title of a thread does not give you the right to post as you see fit.
LadySoft
10-10-2007, 06:19 PM
Excluding the original poster of this title:
if you didn't give a hoot about what I posted, you would have ignored it. I didn't say I was right at what I did. I just mentioned my reason for wondering off the topic, and if you people didn't give a damn, you wouldn't have responded to what I had to say. But it seems you were interested in what I had to say. Of course, most were so eagerly interested in proving me wrong...lol...I just wanted to hear what people had to say.
Lysondra
10-10-2007, 06:37 PM
The vast majority never overcome it. Some are fortunate enough to find treatment options that work for them, more do not. And addiction can manifest in more ways than just going back to the drug that originally started the chain of events that led you to become an addict.
I used to drink tons, and now I don't touch a drop. But I'm still as much of an addict (even moreso) than I ever was. It is something that is very difficult to explain to someone who has never dealt with the disease.
I honestly don't think addiction is a disease, but everything else you said I agree with spot on. I don't know what comes over me but even after over a year of being clean, when someone does it in front of me... I can't help it. I know better. I KNOW BETTER. I still try to secretly lick the credit card or steal the package. Knowing full well what that shit does to me, I can't stop myself when I see it. It's like an impulse. It's probably harder being an alcoholic, with those types of drugs being so predominant around you. At least my addiction was a bit rarer, so finding the drug is harder. But no, I thought I was over it - I did! And I see myself falling to it without any form of self-control. You do not overcome it. You do not control it.
Drugs do suck.
iambonbon05
10-10-2007, 08:14 PM
Taylor I'm sorry you had to go through that, I can't imagine.
Kind of like how last year I found out this sweet kid I used to freaking TAP DANCE with and later was in a volunteering group in school called Natural Helpers went into rehab for coke o.O
Really though, I can't even identify. But at least you didn't go down with him.
And big kudos to those that have overcome their addictions, cocaine or otherwise.
Taylorlila
10-11-2007, 08:10 AM
Taylor I'm sorry you had to go through that, I can't imagine.
Kind of like how last year I found out this sweet kid I used to freaking TAP DANCE with and later was in a volunteering group in school called Natural Helpers went into rehab for coke o.O
Really though, I can't even identify. But at least you didn't go down with him.
And big kudos to those that have overcome their addictions, cocaine or otherwise.
Thanks. Its crazy because I havent even spoken to him in over a year and all of a sudden my mom tells me this and I have weird dreams about him every night...its kinda fucked up.