View Full Version : Back to being a vegan
Gypsy74
10-01-2007, 08:39 PM
I'm an A-type as well... this makes a lot of sense. I think I remember reading somewhere that humans originally were entirely O type, then spread out to different types as we moved to different parts of the world with different physical adaptations.. which explains why anyone can get blood from an O type because that was the basic type of blood? something like that.
This makes sense though, my mom is O, and although she really wants to go vegetarian or at least limit her meat intake, it's hard for her because of anemia.
ahmeerah
10-01-2007, 08:40 PM
i want to know blood type I am! When you give blood at blood drives , they tell you, right? The thought, honestly, freaks me out though.
Yekhefah
10-01-2007, 08:41 PM
It's like you said, different endocrine systems and different metabolic structures. Our dietary needs evolved in different climates where there was different food available; we adapted to meet what was in our particular area. Blood type is a vestige of that adaptation - an Eskimo's dietary needs are going to be radically different from a Yanomamo's, so it stands to reason we're not all designed to eat the same thing in the civilized world, either.
teeth_of_the_hydra
10-01-2007, 08:55 PM
The Rastafaris don't eat anything dead- not even alcohol because it's fermented. Was this called vegan? No because back then they didn't need buzzwords and propaganda to market their products because they didn't have a fucked up supply&demand corporate consumer-based economy like we do now.
Rastafarianism is a 20th-century thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari
We are pretty much equipped to be omnivores. That's not to say you can't be a healthy vegan, but if you're going to argue the mother-nature's-intention kind of thing, well, you've got to look at the science. Humans are omnivores in the brain (w/ a complex understanding of causality, common to rats and pigs, used to draw correlations between uncertain foods and GI upset) the stomach (contains an enzyme specifically designed to break down elastin, an animal protein) and the metabolism (requires B-12, not found in plants).
Citation: http://www.michaelpollan.com/omnivore.php
sxybrat07
10-01-2007, 09:04 PM
Two questions:
What fakes have you tried that you didn't like? Any that you did like?
What real meats (including poultry, beef, seafood, whatever) did you enjoy?
Well, the only thing I've really tried is the vegi-max fake meat, which is disgusting...blah. And I really liked the black bean burgers that Chiles has (I've only tried fake meat going out to eat, as I'm scared to buy it myself).
I liked turkey, sometimes chicken, steak (mainly in the form of philly cheese steaks) and occasionally sushi, tuna, and salmon. Oh, and bacon...drool....bacon...
ahmeerah
10-01-2007, 09:11 PM
Rastafarianism is a 20th-century thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari
We are pretty much equipped to be omnivores. That's not to say you can't be a healthy vegan, but if you're going to argue the mother-nature's-intention kind of thing, well, you've got to look at the science. Humans are omnivores in the brain (w/ a complex understanding of causality, common to rats and pigs, used to draw correlations between uncertain foods and GI upset) the stomach (contains an enzyme specifically designed to break down elastin, an animal protein) and the metabolism (requires B-12, not found in plants).
Citation: http://www.michaelpollan.com/omnivore.php
Interesting! Oh and I admit, I put a raw yolk in my spirulina and brown rice protein shake this morning. I'm trying to remember all that I ate before I did my experimentation. How in the hell did my ass get like this?????
One thing for sure, I do not eat substitute meats. I might have a sunshine burger here or there but it's not supposed to taste or pretend like it is meat. Isn't the fake stuff glutenous?
I like tempeh though! Yummy (when it's prepared right).
Dottie Rebel
10-01-2007, 09:13 PM
Rastafarianism is a 20th-century thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari
Jainism isn't. It's an ancient Indian religion--one of the oldest in the world. And they consume no animal products. Not pointing this out to be nit-picky--just to say that veganism is neither a modern invention nor "against nature."
Dottie Rebel
10-01-2007, 09:23 PM
Well, the only thing I've really tried is the vegi-max fake meat, which is disgusting...blah. And I really liked the black bean burgers that Chiles has (I've only tried fake meat going out to eat, as I'm scared to buy it myself).
I liked turkey, sometimes chicken, steak (mainly in the form of philly cheese steaks) and occasionally sushi, tuna, and salmon. Oh, and bacon...drool....bacon...
Oh, girl...you ain't lived. :P Vegi-max blows. Here are some of my favorite fake meats:
Gimme Lean Brand meats. The sausage is incredible. You can make sausage gravy, stuffed mushrooms, sausage patties...anything sausage. The beef is great for meatloaf. Available at Trader Joe's, Walmart, Sunflower Market, Wild Oats, Whole Foods, etc.
Boca makes great breaded chicken patties, also a spicy version. Gardenburger makes a great grilled chicken patties.
Gardenburger Riblets were the first fake meat I ever LOVED. They taste like ribs. They're cheap at Walmart.
Try a tofurky or an unturkey this year for thanksgiving, and prepare it with the citrus glaze recipe they suggest. It's really freaking good. Tofurky also makes great Turkey lunch meat slices.
Bacon is tough. SmartBacon is the closest I've found and it's a sad substitute. It tastes ok, but it ain't bacon.
I've made Philly cheese steaks out of beef flavored seitan before. You can also get Philly style beef, ham, fishes of all sorts, and seriously anything else you can think of at vegieworld.com.
Let me know if you have any other questions!
sxybrat07
10-01-2007, 09:27 PM
Omg, you rock! I'm gonna be off on a shopping spree :D I was thinking I'd try and make Philly cheese steaks out of portabello mushrooms, we'll see how that works though...
I'm not a big fan of sausage because of the horrible effect it used to have on my digestive system, but I liked the flavor. I must make sausage gravy!
Thanks so much Dottie!
And sorry for the threadjack...
Dottie Rebel
10-01-2007, 09:33 PM
sxybrat: http://www.vegieworld.com/cart/product_pages.asp?id=496
Yekhefah
10-01-2007, 09:34 PM
Ooh, sxy, I LOVE portabello cheeseburgers. I don't even like real cheeseburgers, LOL! But I love to get a portabello cap and marinate it for an hour or so, and then put it on the George Forman with a slice of cheese on top. It's good on a bun with all the burger trimmings, but it's good on its own, too!
If you really want to go nuts, try bleu cheese on it. :yummy:
sxybrat07
10-01-2007, 09:38 PM
Dottie, it's official, I <3 you. :)
Yek that sound soooo yummy. What do you marinate it in? I must try these things...
sxybrat07
10-01-2007, 09:40 PM
While I'm here...any decent vegan hotdogs? God, why do I like all the nasty stuff...lol.
Yekhefah
10-01-2007, 09:43 PM
My portobello marinade is usually a tablespoon of olive oil, some balsamic vinegar, garlic, and whatever spices I'm in the mood for. If I've got fresh basil, I'll throw that in there; if I'm making Tex-Mex sides like corn and beans, I'll put a little cumin in it. It's pretty flexible. You can use salad vinaigrette too, in a pinch, or even fruit juice if you want it sweet. An OJ-based marinade goes pretty well if you use a really dry sharp/salty cheese, like pecorino.
Dottie Rebel
10-01-2007, 09:45 PM
I'd say this article about hotdogs is accurate: http://www.vegcooking.com/gb_vegdogs.asp
Don't get discouraged if the first ones you eat aren't good. vegan hot dogs are a matter of preference. Oh, and don't microwave them! Boiling is ok, but I prefer to grill 'em up in a pan with a little oil. Hot dogs require either steam, water, or oil or the skin gets leathery.
Tofurkey makes GREAT brats. The only brand worth eating. Beer brats are best, then Italian Sausage, then Kielbasa.
Yekhefah
10-01-2007, 09:51 PM
Dottie, would you say that these meat substitutes make up a large portion of your diet?
I'm wary of eating these things very often... seems like it would be healthier to eat less processed stuff. These fake meat substitutes kind of freak me out because I don't know exactly what's in them, and I'd worry about not getting enough variety from different plants and veggies. I ate a lot of them when I was a kid but I never got that burst of energy from them like I always get from eating a ton of veggies in a meal.
Plus everything by Yves tastes like rotten ass.
dangerousdiva
10-01-2007, 09:57 PM
Sorry to threadjack but I have a few questions, too.
I was a vegetarian for over 15 years, not for any reason other than I just don't like the taste, texture or smell of meat. However, about two years ago, I started eating sushi and seafood. I love it, to me the texture and flavor is totally different than what I remember any meat being like.
Anyways, I've always wanted to try the "fake meat" stuff but have been scared since I don't like the flavor, texture or taste of any meat. Whether it be beef, chicken, turkey or pork. Yuck!
Dottie, would I like the stuff you recommended if I have never liked meat? I mean if I never like ribs would I like the fake ribs?
Dottie Rebel
10-01-2007, 10:05 PM
Dottie, would you say that these meat substitutes make up a large portion of your diet?
I'm wary of eating these things very often... seems like it would be healthier to eat less processed stuff. These fake meat substitutes kind of freak me out because I don't know exactly what's in them, and I'd worry about not getting enough variety from different plants and veggies. I ate a lot of them when I was a kid but I never got that burst of energy from them like I always get from eating a ton of veggies in a meal.
Plus everything by Yves tastes like rotten ass.
Actually, no. I eat a fairly healthy rotation of legumes, tofu, tempeh, seitan, and fake meats. As well as a large variety of vegetables, whole grains, etc.
I'm not sure what you consider highly processed. For me, if the ingredients list is fairly short and looks like actual food things that I can pronounce, I consider it good to go. MANY of the fake meats actually fall into that category. Seitan is great because while it is a fake meat in and of itself, it's ingredients are basically high-protein gluten flour and water.
Getting enough variety in vegetables and plants is altogether separate. I don't treat fake meat the way most Americans treat real meat--I may have exaggerrated a bit when I said I ate like a meat eater. What I meant was that "meat" is a regular part of my diet, not that it's the bulk of it. One shouldn't live off of fake sausage any more than they should live off of real.
I love making a big salad with real greens and colorful vegetables or a big steaming pile of veggies over rice, but there is something very comforting about eating the way I grew up: a "main dish" meat and a couple of sides.
Dottie Rebel
10-01-2007, 10:14 PM
Dottie, would I like the stuff you recommended if I have never liked meat? I mean if I never like ribs would I like the fake ribs?
Hmm...That's hard to say. I love fake meat because it's the closest I'll get to meat, but it *isn't* meat. Well, other than Gimme Lean sausage. I've fooled many people with that stuff! }:D
For the most part the texture of fake meats is reminiscent of meat, but truly it's own unique "thing." I say get some of the top recommended stuff and just see if you like it!
kandie_kitten
10-01-2007, 10:54 PM
I am not vegan or vegetarian, but I had a question, and this thread seems appropriate. Let me preface with I in no way mean to be rude or offensive, I'm just very ignorant as to the foundations supporting vegetarians. So if my question is dumb, I apologize.
I've always wondered why, for many vegetarians, it is deplorable to eat beef or lamb or pork or whatever, but completely acceptable to eat fish? (again, I understand that not all in the lifestyle feel this way, just the majority that I have met personally). In my uninformed head, it seems contradictory. Fish have a heart and a brain, and many will protect their young fiercely-all arguments I have heard vegetarians use to explain why they want to live as they do.
Can anyone explain the reasoning?
Dottie Rebel
10-01-2007, 11:01 PM
I can in no way explain this reasoning. Fish are not vegetables--they are sentient beings with complex nervous systems. Meaning, yes, they do feel pain!
If you want to eat a mostly vegetarian diet for health reason and have no qualms eating fish, that's your decision to make, but do not call yourself a vegetarians. Or worse yet, the hgihly pretentious "pescatarian".
Don't even get me started on "pesca-pollo-tarian." ::)
Susan Wayward
10-01-2007, 11:29 PM
TOTH, I love Michael Pollan! Though he is of course an omnivore he does a great job explaining just how unnatural and ridiculous the modern food supply in America is. And the evils of corn subsidies which thanks to him is one of my governmental pet peeves now.
KK, I'm confused by that too. My only thought is that they're freaked out by eating mammals but think that fish are less . . . furry? cute? I don't know. Maybe dangerousdiva will weigh in on this since fish are the only kind of meat she eats.
Also does anyone have a good tofu scramble recipe lying around here?
dangerousdiva
10-02-2007, 12:52 AM
Well, I would love to say it's because I'm conscientious, but that's not why I was ever a lacto-vegetarian ( to be more specific ) to begin with.
The reason I don't eat meat is just that I don't like it, the same way I don't like onions. I don't eat eggs cuz I'm allergic to them not because I feel it violates my beliefs.
However, when it comes to fish, I think they have less feelings...they're not as complex as chickens, cows, etc...so I don't really mind if they're raised in tight tanks or caught in the wild...though I think one day the guilt will catch up to me and i'll try to buy fish that was caught in the wild, not tight overcrowded breeding pools..where they also are given tons of antibiotics and fed color pills to keep their meat looking pinker (in case of salmon). I think i've heard something like this...
I like certain seafood because it's light and the texture isn't "chewy" like most meat. I don't like seafood with weird textures like octopus ect...this is just my personal preference and not because I believe fish are less complex than cows or chicken and therefore feel less pain. I never even considered that before I read this thread. I guess there isn't a moral basis behind what I eat, other than I want to be healthy. Interesting thread though, definitely giving me food for thought;)
Since I do eat seafood now, I no longer consider myself a vegetarian. I do admire those that do live and eat what they believe.
at321
10-02-2007, 04:45 AM
Can someone who is allergic to wheat (gluten) and sensitive to soy and nuts go vegan? I've tried cutting out almost all meat along wíth the other foods mentioned above that I'm either sensitive or allergic to, but I feel hungry the whole day. I can't eat most animal byproducts but it's really hard for me to cut out chicken and fish because then I just feel hungry.
Yekhefah
10-02-2007, 07:40 AM
That makes sense, Dottie. I need to get some seitan and learn to cook with it now that I've mastered tofu. There's a vegan soul food stand at the farmer's market and they make the best pot roast out of seitan...! So good. They make a lot of really inventive vegan soul foods, and grape juice infused with ginger. I'd like to be able to cook like that. My Southern food is pretty dairy-dependent.
As for the pesco-vegetarian thing, I think we have a longstanding cultural assumption that fish aren't really meat. Look at the Catholic church, where you aren't allowed to eat meat on Fridays during Lent but you can have fish. And if you keep kosher, you can't mix meat and dairy but you can have fish in butter sauce if you want - all foods are either meat, dairy, or parve (neither) and fish is considered parve. (So are eggs.) I don't know why it's like that but it is. When I was a vegetarian I didn't eat fish but I do know more pesco-vegs than ovo-lacto vegs or vegans.
My best friend has been a strict vegetarian and occasional vegan for the past 17 years, but she just introduced wild-caught salmon into her diet because she's got high cholesterol levels. It's helping with her cholesterol already, and she makes a point of only eating the wild-caught; apparently they fish for them right after spawning, when they're going to die anyway. So she feels a bit guilty, but not as much as if an otherwise prosperous animal had been killed just to eat. And she still eats no other meat.
mollyzmoon
10-02-2007, 07:50 AM
This might sound weird, but I aspire to someday only eat meat I raise or catch myself. Like the local rabbits or deer or something. It's not like I need meat more than three times a week anyway. But for fish, my family has always been that way. When we lived up North we'd go fishing on weekends, freeze what we didn't eat right away, and then we'd have some nice pickerel or trout for later on. I don't know if that makes for a difference though. I don't eat anymore ocean fish, since watching all those David Suzuki specials. Ideally I'd like to eat only what's local.
Yekhefah
10-02-2007, 07:55 AM
If I do go back to eating meat, I intend to have only kosher meat. It's a lot more humane and better for you... unfortunately it's also pretty expensive. And when you're a vegan, everything is kosher unless you're really strict!