View Full Version : Got the finger, you know the bird, the middle finger
Yekhefah
10-01-2007, 06:19 PM
If you take GentlemanX's description of the events to be the exact truth, then you're right, he did nothing really wrong. However, his demeanor when discussing it, the fact that he grumbled at her and looked away while she was talking to him, and his obvious disgust with her appearance lead me to conclude that he was actually a LOT more rude to her in person than he is admitting to us here.
Dottie Rebel
10-01-2007, 06:34 PM
^^^Which I think is what several of us picked up on. Well put.
James Bond
10-01-2007, 08:24 PM
OMG, when they all start pointing at each other I seriously want to stab them all to death with the bar knife. There is NOTHING that pisses me off the way that does.
^^^ I hope you flicked your cigarette into her hair, since she wouldn't let you use the ashtray.
;D
If you take GentlemanX's description of the events to be the exact truth, then you're right, he did nothing really wrong. However, his demeanor when discussing it, the fact that he grumbled at her and looked away while she was talking to him, and his obvious disgust with her appearance lead me to conclude that he was actually a LOT more rude to her in person than he is admitting to us here.
Yeah, I sensed from the first post that he sounded arrogant and had the attitude that the dancer was a "nothing."
I don't think she'd be that mad if he didn't set her off. A lot of dancers have bad days at work and they don't give the bird to customers who don't want dances.
I think he intentionally set off her radar then gave her the attitude that she was a piece of shit. He probably gets off on rejecting women at SCs.
Both of his posts reek with elitism and arrogance. This incident will make him a better customer in the future. A lot of these guys need to be "checked" once in a while to keep them from becoming too assholish. :beat:
And just because the dancers are in sales doesn't mean they have to eat shit. Fuck that! In the SC, the customer is usually wrong.
Andygirl
10-02-2007, 01:01 AM
I think if you are that offended by what Gentlemen X said to the girl, and let's, just for the sake of argument, assume that he is telling the truth, then you are overly sensitive and jaded.
If a guy can't even say "no thanks" to a girl asking to sit with him, then what the hell is he supposed to say? Maybe he didn't like her and didn't want to ruin the chance of a different girl approaching him, which we all know would happen because of the dancer code of ethics.
I've had guys say no thanks to me, and I take it as that and move. I'm not so jaded or hostile that I'm going to get irate and then enlist other people to behave rudely towards the customer. What kind of horrible customer service is that? Even if I don't like something a custie says, or I'm disappointed in getting a "no" that doesn't mean I want to run him out of the club by being horribly rude. The guy who says no thanks at 10:00 might be ready for a dance or a VIP room by 11:00, that is, if you aren't so rude to him that he leaves the club.
Some dancers need to chill out and take the chip off their shoulder or they are going to end up ruining their chances of making any money.
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the same girls who are constantly cryassing about how terrible the customers are also cryass that they don't make any money, that it "sucks out there," etc.
As for the "spare tire" comment, if he didn't say it out loud then what is the problem? He has a right not to want that kind of dancer sitting with him. HE is the paying customer, WE are the employee--like it or not. I'm not saying we should eat shit at work, but a simple "No thanks," or even a rather convoluted "No thanks," after argumentation from the dancer is hardly a reason to crucify the guy.
I love you girls, but sometimes I don't understand the attitudes I see here. If a simple story like this one gets people so riled up then it's easy to understand why several people on here consistently complain about not making money. Seriously, ladies, please relax. If you can't let something like "No thanks" roll off then perhaps you are in the wrong biz.
Crow2
10-02-2007, 02:28 AM
I think if you are that offended by what Gentlemen X said to the girl, and let's, just for the sake of argument, assume that he is telling the truth, then you are overly sensitive and jaded.
If a guy can't even say "no thanks" to a girl asking to sit with him, then what the hell is he supposed to say? Maybe he didn't like her and didn't want to ruin the chance of a different girl approaching him, which we all know would happen because of the dancer code of ethics.
I've had guys say no thanks to me, and I take it as that and move. I'm not so jaded or hostile that I'm going to get irate and then enlist other people to behave rudely towards the customer. What kind of horrible customer service is that? Even if I don't like something a custie says, or I'm disappointed in getting a "no" that doesn't mean I want to run him out of the club by being horribly rude. The guy who says no thanks at 10:00 might be ready for a dance or a VIP room by 11:00, that is, if you aren't so rude to him that he leaves the club.
Some dancers need to chill out and take the chip off their shoulder or they are going to end up ruining their chances of making any money.
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the same girls who are constantly cryassing about how terrible the customers are also cryass that they don't make any money, that it "sucks out there," etc.
As for the "spare tire" comment, if he didn't say it out loud then what is the problem? He has a right not to want that kind of dancer sitting with him. HE is the paying customer, WE are the employee--like it or not. I'm not saying we should eat shit at work, but a simple "No thanks," or even a rather convoluted "No thanks," after argumentation from the dancer is hardly a reason to crucify the guy.
I love you girls, but sometimes I don't understand the attitudes I see here. If a simple story like this one gets people so riled up then it's easy to understand why several people on here consistently complain about not making money. Seriously, ladies, please relax. If you can't let something like "No thanks" roll off then perhaps you are in the wrong biz.
It's not what was said, it's HOW it was said.
A guy can tell me "No thanks" all day long and be fine - but if he comes at me with a condescending, your not that attractive and I think your just here to steal my money sort of attitude then yes. I will react the same way.
Yes, I am a dancer/stripper - and yes I am in a service oriented industry.
That doesn't mean I have to take shit from individuals. In any way shape form or fashion.
crizgolfer
10-02-2007, 05:38 AM
Judging the OP's level of arrogance based upon what was typed is impossible. Anyone can be taken out of context on a message board. Two thirds of the means of communication is missing on a message board (body language and tone of voice).
I have read several threads here where many dancers state that they wish a guy would just say, "no, thanks." Well, he did an now some are jumping on him for it. As for the theory that she may have just wanted to sit and rest for while...well...how would the customer know the difference? There have been plenty of threads on here where dancers expect compensation for time spent sitting and talking. How is a customer suppose to know when she wants compensation and doesn't? Perhaps she should state it in advance? "Hello, Mr. Customer, I need a break. Do you mind if I sit and chat with you for a bit? You don't have to tip me."
The dancer has the right to refuse to offer her services to any customer for any reason she sees fit. A customer has the right to refuse purchasing her services for any reason he sees fit. Above all else, the environment is a business environment. It is not personal.
As for his comment on the "spare tire." I do not see where he said it to her. That would be rude. He stated it on a message board where no one knows the individual it was directed at. The individual is not hurt by it. I see plenty of similar comments (on here) by dancers about how ugly customers are. I really don't see the harm in what he said.
If one dancer said something about me to another dancer that lead to a rude act towards me. I would leave the club and take with me all the cash I would have spent. In fact, in the OP's scenario some of that cash would have been directed at the one flying the finger. She lost out.
jaizaine
10-02-2007, 07:35 AM
I think the delivery of said critique is what ruffled mine and kitana's feathers.
"She had a spare tire, people." As if to say, "Come on! Why on earth would I want to buy a dance from someone who is obviously completely disgusting!"
I know im in the minority in saying this but if a dancer approached me and was that out of shape I would be thinking the same thing. Why would I pay to see her naked? If your body is your business and you get naked for a living why would you get that out of shape and then bark at guys who don't want a dance from you?
It would be unacceptable for him to tell her he had a spare tyre but to say it on this forum, well i have heard worse.
Jenny
10-02-2007, 07:38 AM
^^^
Yes, but I don't think it is mysterious and weird that we are hostile towards outsiders making nasty comments about dancers here.
jaizaine
10-02-2007, 08:10 AM
^^
yes you're right. Also to clarify, my personal taste in women is vuluptuous not skinny. But if it's a spare tyre that's a bit much.
Taylorlila
10-02-2007, 08:19 AM
Well you said you looked at her, and when I see a guy check me out, I usually think he might be interested, so I'll go over. I've walked up to guys and not even gotten a hi out and they'll go "I'm all set!" Personally, I think thats kinda rude, at least let me introduce myself. Odds are I was going to hustle you, but sometimes I'm tired, or its dead and I wanna sit for a minute, and when a guy doesn't even give me a minute to introduce myself it kinda makes me feel repulsive...but I usually just say "ok" or something and leave. If you let me introduce myself, then politley say "Sorry but I'm waiting for someone" or "no thankyou, I just want to relax for a minute," it makes me happy, and it makes you happy. I didn't sit with you, and you didn't make me think "wow I'm not even good enough to say hi too...what a dick."
She took it a little too far I think, but I can't say I haven't done similar things before. Sometimes, you're at work all day, you've dealt with a lotta shit, gotten your buttons pushed, and you just need to be a bitch. I can deal with a lotta guys being impolite (which you kinda were) for a while, but then one person says something rude, and instead of walking away, I say something about it. Next time just be nicer, we're people too, and a little bit of politness goes a long way.
Andygirl
10-02-2007, 09:02 AM
It's not what was said, it's HOW it was said.
A guy call tell me "No thanks" all day long and be fine - but if he comes at me with a condescending, your not that attractive and I think your just here to steal my money sort of attitude then yes. I will react the same way.
Yes, I am a dancer/stripper - and yes I am in a service oriented industry.
That doesn't mean I have to take shit from individuals. In any way shape form or fashion.
Were you there? I don't think any of us know HOW he said it. From what he's posted here I don't get any condescenscion from it, YMMV.
AudreyLeigh
10-02-2007, 09:03 AM
I think he did nothing in the wrong. Ive had it happen to me and gotten internally upset - usually Ive had a bad night and I was already irritated and that set me off. INTERNALLY. But a customer does have the right to reject if he wants to even if at the time I dont agree with it.
Crow2
10-02-2007, 09:22 AM
Were you there? I don't think any of us know HOW he said it. From what he's posted here I don't get any condescenscion from it, YMMV.
Excuse you.. I'm not trying to be combative. I'm simply explaining to you WHY some might of taken it to be rude.
James Bond
10-02-2007, 11:13 AM
I think if you are that offended by what Gentlemen X said to the girl, and let's, just for the sake of argument, assume that he is telling the truth, then you are overly sensitive and jaded.
If a guy can't even say "no thanks" to a girl asking to sit with him, then what the hell is he supposed to say? Maybe he didn't like her and didn't want to ruin the chance of a different girl approaching him, which we all know would happen because of the dancer code of ethics.
I've had guys say no thanks to me, and I take it as that and move. I'm not so jaded or hostile that I'm going to get irate and then enlist other people to behave rudely towards the customer. What kind of horrible customer service is that? Even if I don't like something a custie says, or I'm disappointed in getting a "no" that doesn't mean I want to run him out of the club by being horribly rude. The guy who says no thanks at 10:00 might be ready for a dance or a VIP room by 11:00, that is, if you aren't so rude to him that he leaves the club.
Some dancers need to chill out and take the chip off their shoulder or they are going to end up ruining their chances of making any money.
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the same girls who are constantly cryassing about how terrible the customers are also cryass that they don't make any money, that it "sucks out there," etc.
As for the "spare tire" comment, if he didn't say it out loud then what is the problem? He has a right not to want that kind of dancer sitting with him. HE is the paying customer, WE are the employee--like it or not. I'm not saying we should eat shit at work, but a simple "No thanks," or even a rather convoluted "No thanks," after argumentation from the dancer is hardly a reason to crucify the guy.
I love you girls, but sometimes I don't understand the attitudes I see here. If a simple story like this one gets people so riled up then it's easy to understand why several people on here consistently complain about not making money. Seriously, ladies, please relax. If you can't let something like "No thanks" roll off then perhaps you are in the wrong biz.
Read this whole thread again. He never said, "No, thank you." He said it in a different way, and, along with his attitude, may have set her off.
"Jaded" really means that the dancer doesn't put up with any BS. I'm surprised that you're using the "jaded card" on a fellow dancer, knowing the kind of shit she has to put up with.
This case is very subtle. It's kind of like when a Black person goes to a grocery store and the White cashier drops the change from a higher distance to avoid touching the person. If the Black person said something to the cashier for his rudeness, the cashier could say: "Oh, he's just being oversensitive."
The cashier could say: "Hey, the change landed in his hand, didn't it. So, technically, I didn't do anything wrong."
His last comment gave him away: "She had a spare tire, people." That comment says something about his attitude at the time, even though he didn't say it to her directly.
This could be a case where she might have had a bad day, and his comments were the final straw. She may have had to put up with 5 guys before him and said nothing, but this time, she had a friend give him the bird. So fuckin what! He had it coming. }:D
He wasn't going to buy dances from her anyway because of the "spare tire," so why not let him have it. It's not like he's going to be a future customer anyway. The management would laugh at him if he complained, or they might have even thrown him out. Like they would give a shit. :laughing:
:judge: Final judgement: This court finds that the customer acted like an asshat in this situation. Sure, the dancer might have had a bad day, but so what. He tipped the scales with his attitude and got SC justice. :finger:
crizgolfer
10-02-2007, 11:21 AM
Sometimes, you're at work all day, you've dealt with a lotta shit, gotten your buttons pushed, and you just need to be a bitch...Next time just be nicer, we're people too, and a little bit of politness goes a long way.
We all have days like that and I can understand a dancer having days like that. I know that you ladies put up with a lot of crap. My main point is that it is hard to tell his context if we weren't there. And also, sometimes us customers get hit on a lot in clubs and it may sour us for a bit (too much hustle). This can have an effect on us some nights. I have been in clubs where i could not turn around without being hustled. I have never been rude in these cases, but I have just left as I was not having much fun.
As for politeness and dancers being people too...well..yes, indeed I agree with you completely. I am not a perfect person, but one thing I hold some pride in is that I treat dancers in a club the same as I treat any woman outside the club.
Crow2
10-02-2007, 11:34 AM
We all have days like that and I can understand a dancer having days like that. I know that you ladies put up with a lot of crap. My main point is that it is hard to tell his context if we weren't there. And also, sometimes us customers get hit on a lot in clubs and it may sour us for a bit (too much hustle). This can have an effect on us some nights. I have been in clubs where i could not turn around without being hustled. I have never been rude in these cases, but I have just left as I was not having much fun.
As for politeness and dancers being people too...well..yes, indeed I agree with you completely. I am not a perfect person, but one thing I hold some pride in is that I treat dancers in a club the same as I treat any woman outside the club.
Mister Golfer,
Not all men think and do as you do. :) Perfect or no.
doc-catfish
10-02-2007, 11:51 AM
People seem to be coming to different conclusions here as to whether the OP was rude. I'm going to leave it at that, because in a SC, "rudeness" is a very relative thing, not to mention a contagious one.
Now, I couldn't even begin to estimate how many times on this board I have seen a message containing something like, "If you're taking my time, you should pay for it."
So now that you've got me trained to pay, you're saying that sometimes you just want to sit down without being paid? How am I supposed to know the difference? And, while you are there, no other dancer is going to come over and ask if I want a dance, either, and maybe I want them to do that.
That is the great irony of this whole thread.
Girls, those of us who frequent SC's and have been around the block a few times know the drill. In fact we know it so well that we've practically mechanized our behavior to adapt to that environment. Its not so hard to come to the conclusion that when you've had six gals stop by your table trying to hit you up for a dance, that the seventh one who does it probably is after the same thing and doesn't want to just "rest her feet".
After awhile, being hustled gets monotonous and irritating and much like anything thats monotonous and irritating, it brings out the "rude" in even the nicest of people. How far do you let the fourth telemarketer who's bugged you today get in their sales pitch before you hang the phone up on them? I mean, they're people too.
We know that much like that telemarketer, far more often than not, you are there to make money off us. When we really don't wish to spend any on a particular gal, we want to get that experience over with as quickly as possible, so we can move on to a more desirable candidate, because as long as an undesirable one is present at our table, the one that we want is not going to come forward.
In probably a few cases, the blow off probably comes off as a little more abrasive than we would want, because everything in the club, the noise, the odor, the obnoxiousness, the alcohol, the incessant hustle has all gotten to us. We've learned the quickest way of getting rid of you when we don't want you there. Hell, we've even learned to make up lies ("I'm waiting for _____") when the quick route seems a little harsh.
I'm sure our mechanized behavior comes off as rude sometimes, but the fact is that its a byproduct of the mechanized behavior you previously used towards us. Rudeness has a way of begetting more rudeness.
But like I stated earlier, I think ALL or us need to take a deep breath sometimes, and realize thats another human being that we're talking with, not a wallet to be picked, or a piece of meat to be tossed away. Granted, its a bit difficult when we are in an environment that is not particularly conducive to people being nice to one another, and both parties are dealing with a lot of stigma regarding their whole role in being there.
Andygirl
10-02-2007, 11:55 AM
Read this whole thread again. He never said, "No, thank you." He said it in a different way, and, along with his attitude, may have set her off.
"Jaded" really means that the dancer doesn't put up with any BS. I'm surprised that you're using the "jaded card" on a fellow dancer, knowing the kind of shit she has to put up with.
This case is very subtle. It's kind of like when a Black person goes to a grocery store and the White cashier drops the change from a higher distance to avoid touching the person. If the Black person said something to the cashier for his rudeness, the cashier could say: "Oh, he's just being oversensitive."
The cashier could say: "Hey, the change landed in his hand, didn't it. So, technically, I didn't do anything wrong."
His last comment gave him away: "She had a spare tire, people." That comment says something about his attitude at the time, even though he didn't say it to her directly.
This could be a case where she might have had a bad day, and his comments were the final straw. She may have had to put up with 5 guys before him and said nothing, but this time, she had a friend give him the bird. So fuckin what! He had it coming. }:D
He wasn't going to buy dances from her anyway because of the "spare tire," so why not let him have it. It's not like he's going to be a future customer anyway. The management would laugh at him if he complained, or they might have even thrown him out. Like they would give a shit. :laughing:
:judge: Final judgement: This court finds that the customer acted like an asshat in this situation. Sure, the dancer might have had a bad day, but so what. He tipped the scales with his attitude and got SC justice. :finger:
I have read it. It's not a matter of solidarity btw dancers (which, honestly, does not exist ITC--everyone is looking out for #1) or sticking up for customers or anything of the sort. If a guy said something like that to me I wouldn't think anything of it. I'd move along to the next guy and continue making my money. Again, that's taking him at his word as to what he said to the dancer.
I know the meaning of jaded, I see it and hear it all of the time. Every day I come in to work I get to hear how awful the dayshift was, how no one made any money, how all of the guys were dicks, etc. I've seen girls get shitty when a guy doesn't want a dance or doesn't want her to sit with him. Is it his fault if she's been told no 20 times that day? No. I certainly see her viewpoint and frustration, but that doesn't mean that this particular guy was doing anything to be an asshole.
If girls like that want to run guys out of their clubs every time they have a bad day, then ok. Personally, I wouldn't want to work with girls who acted like that. I like to keep asses in the seats at my club, not run them out.
cameron_keys
10-02-2007, 12:11 PM
How far do you let the fourth telemarketer who's bugged you today get in their sales pitch before you hang the phone up on them? I mean, they're people too.
.
The problem with that is I didnt willingly go into the telemarketers place of business. If being hustled by dancers irritates you...dont go in. Whether she is or isnt going to hustle you isnt the point..the point is...at the very least..wait until she does to reject her if you are going to. Saying "no thanks" to a "hi" is rude. No way around that.
As for the OP...we dont truly know what the deal was. The girl could have been a bitch who overreacted...the OP could have been much ruder then he's letting on and she reacted accordingly.
Katrine
10-02-2007, 01:01 PM
Do some of you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY sit down with a customer just to "rest your feet"? Seriously, are you being honest?
Sure I've used that line on prospects before, but it was ALWAYS with the intention of hustling for dances, ALWAYS!
If I really wanted to rest my feet, I can sit in the bar, or at a table of someone who actually spends. Or, god forbid, for a MOMENT with a nice club regular who tips.
If I go up to a strange prospect in the club, and he immediately waves me off, it may be rude, but he's saving me time to go elsewhere. And I've had guys be total dicks to me.
Its only guys that have wasted my time that warrant the middle finger. And this one didn't. God I wish I could do that to people now in my current line of work!
crizgolfer
10-02-2007, 03:01 PM
...I think ALL or us need to take a deep breath sometimes, and realize thats another human being that we're talking with, not a wallet to be picked, or a piece of meat to be tossed away.
Amen to that.
TigersMilk
10-02-2007, 03:05 PM
Do some of you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY sit down with a customer just to "rest your feet"? Seriously, are you being honest?
Sure I've used that line on prospects before, but it was ALWAYS with the intention of hustling for dances, ALWAYS!
If I really wanted to rest my feet, I can sit in the bar, or at a table of someone who actually spends. Or, god forbid, for a MOMENT with a nice club regular who tips.
If I go up to a strange prospect in the club, and he immediately waves me off, it may be rude, but he's saving me time to go elsewhere. And I've had guys be total dicks to me.
Its only guys that have wasted my time that warrant the middle finger. And this one didn't. God I wish I could do that to people now in my current line of work!
Exactly. Its not like he told her she had a tire. Its always work to sit down and talk to people. Kat, do you have enough middle fingers? lol
rockie
10-02-2007, 04:54 PM
I've been distracted and answered "no thank you" when the question wasn't would I like a dance? While occasionally my mistake has led to unpleasantness, it's never made me feel the need to leave. I'm almost immune to being flipped off, although I don't go in search of it.
Note to self: When in LA never ignore the delectable and intelligent Yek as it could seemingly lead to extreme injury of which there may be no recovery.
Jenny: The definition of "outsider" in the customer conversation thread would still be mostly any male customer, or is it any poster with minimal posts. Come on I needed to ask, but you can flip me off if you feel the need!
Jenny
10-02-2007, 05:13 PM
^^^ Oh, I'm totally flipping you off.
If you seriously want to know, it is probably both. Men/Customers because they are not a part of the collegial critiques that I mentioned; people with low post counts because we don't know and "trust" them yet.
rockie
10-02-2007, 05:16 PM
Damn that was fast! Thanks Jenny!
I took the OP at his word and believe he behaved courteously based on what he claimed occurred. Anything else we might conjure up about him beyond that is speculation and stereotyping.
FBR
Jenny
10-02-2007, 05:34 PM
I don't know that that is true. I mean when people refer to others derisively and rudely in the third person... well, relatively few of them are really so subtle and understated that they really conceal that exceptionally well (especially when all ya'all don't get paid for it). So, yes, I think the fact that he obviously has no respect for her and is willing and eager to be impolite ABOUT her can reasonably lead to an inference that he was less than scrupulously polite to her face.
zxcire
10-02-2007, 05:39 PM
I took the OP at his word and believe he behaved courteously based on what he claimed occurred. Anything else we might conjure up about him beyond that is speculation and stereotyping.
FBR
Word. The amount of butthurtness I've seen in this thread over mere assumption is astounding!
Dottie Rebel
10-02-2007, 07:05 PM
I'm not butthurt. But the idea that a person with a spare tire cannot be a great stripper is a little silly. The money-makin'-est bitch I ever did know was 30 pounds overweight. And sexy and funny and smart and badass. That was all.
I'm not butthurt. But the idea that a person with a spare tire cannot be a great stripper is a little silly. The money-makin'-est bitch I ever did know was 30 pounds overweight. And sexy and funny and smart and badass. That was all.
Dottie I agree. I have also seen it. But the OP didn't want to sit with this particular woman. And he tried to be polite about it. I don't see much of a story beyond that.
FBR
doc-catfish
10-02-2007, 07:18 PM
The problem with that is I didnt willingly go into the telemarketers place of business. If being hustled by dancers irritates you...dont go in.
If you went to your salon/spa, and they tried to repeatedly push you to buy services that you didn't want, would you go back there? This attitude that the people who come into your club, paid a door cover for the priviledge of doing so, have to just put up with the annoyances of that environment, is precisely the problem. Name me another hospitality related business that operates this way.
As long as any business gives its customers the impression that they are suckers who are to be fleeced, instead of like guests whose input matters, the owners of that enterprise and everyone who works in it shouldn't be surprised when said customers throw said attitude back in their faces, rude cutoffs included, or they just stay home as Cam suggests. The problem with the latter is well...nobody makes any money.
So, yes, I think the fact that he obviously has no respect for her and is willing and eager to be impolite ABOUT her can reasonably lead to an inference that he was less than scrupulously polite to her face.
Or more likely some around here just want to assume the one with the Y-chromosome is always wrong / scum / an asshole / [insert your favorite epithet here], even if there is lack of evidence, or presence of such pointing to the contrary. We're guilty until proven innocent. This is the alternate reality of SW after all.
:)
Jenny
10-02-2007, 07:25 PM
Or more likely some around here just want to assume the one with the Y-chromosome is always wrong / scum / an asshole / [insert your favorite epithet here], even if there is lack of evidence, or presence of such pointing to the contrary. We're guilty until proven innocent. This is the alternate reality of SW after all.
:)
And blah, blah, blah, poor men, the oppressed minority. If you start a thread about it on blue, you'll get lots and lots of sympathy. Seriously - are you trying to tell me that it is so hard to believe that we are just sensitive to guys being rude about our colleagues, and that we believe that someone who talks about a woman like that might not be very nice in person? As you said - this isn't wildly complicated. You and FBR think he's being scrupulously honest based on what he said happened; we think he isn't based on the context of his posts.
^^ I wasn't as verbose as Doc C but yeah I'm willing to take the OP at his word. I'm not feeling oppressed...well not this minute anyway...I just think you and others are speculating without facts and injecting your prejudices and trying to mold the OP into the rude customer that you love to hate. You guys slept through his original post but woke up as soon as he mentioned here on this board, out of her earshot, that she was less than attractive in his eyes.
FBR
Jenny
10-02-2007, 07:44 PM
I just think you and others are speculating without facts
Well none of us have facts. We're drawing inferences. Our inferences, while not perfect, are certainly grounded.
and injecting your prejudices and trying to mold the OP into the rude customer that you love to hate.
Okay... how does this go with this:
You guys slept through his original post but woke up as soon as he mentioned here on this board, out of her earshot, that she was less than attractive in his eyes.
FBR
Like, yeah - exactly. When he exhibited derision towards her we inferred that his attitude towards her might not be as blameless as he imputed. Like I said - this is not THAT crazy and unwarranted. You choose to privilege his account; we choose to give some weight to his attitude as well. There are rational grounds for many of the criticisms. You don't have to agree with it but claiming the whole "men are just the victims of you unfair harpies" is a little off in this case.
RoseWhite
10-02-2007, 07:54 PM
Well, at risk of being boring about it, on reflection, maybe the actual truth is * . . . drumroll . . . * somewhere in between. Isn't it possible that he was a little bit rude, not a lot, but a little, AND she overreacted? Hence we're taking sides with the role we identify with more?
Well none of us have facts. We're drawing inferences. Our inferences, while not perfect, are certainly grounded.
I'm not drawing inferences. At least I don't think so. I've tried to stay focused on the information contained in his original post. Anything he or any of the rest of us may have said after that is just speculation.
Like, yeah - exactly. When he exhibited derision towards her we inferred that his attitude towards her might not be as blameless as he imputed. Like I said - this is not THAT crazy and unwarranted. You choose to privilege his account; we choose to give some weight to his attitude as well. There are rational grounds for many of the criticisms. You don't have to agree with it but claiming the whole "men are just the victims of you unfair harpies" is a little off in this case.
I wasn't that strategic. And harpies? I haven't watched "Jason and the Argonauts" in years.
FBR
Yekhefah
10-02-2007, 08:08 PM
Well, at risk of being boring about it, on reflection, maybe the actual truth is * . . . drumroll . . . * somewhere in between. Isn't it possible that he was a little bit rude, not a lot, but a little, AND she overreacted? Hence we're taking sides with the role we identify with more?
:yes: :yes: :yes:
Mastridonicus
10-02-2007, 08:11 PM
Really, the moral of the story here is: If you get flipped off by a 3rd party stripper after a rejection...time to go. Regardless of how polite you were. The night is over at that club the second a unknown bystander flips you off.
Really, the moral of the story here is: If you get flipped off by a 3rd party stripper after a rejection...time to go. Regardless of how polite you were. The night is over at that club the second a unknown bystander flips you off.
Mast, I have yet to find a moral to the story. The jury is still out.
FBR
Well, at risk of being boring about it, on reflection, maybe the actual truth is * . . . drumroll . . . * somewhere in between. Isn't it possible that he was a little bit rude, not a lot, but a little, AND she overreacted? Hence we're taking sides with the role we identify with more?
Rose, you are an excellent peacemaker. And wise. And really hot which sways me towards your opinion me being evil and all }:D . But dammit I have to stand my ground on this one. The OP is blameless. Jenny and her sign waving crowd notwithstanding, I think they are wrong.
FBR
Silverback
10-02-2007, 09:42 PM
I bid 50 quatloos on the newcomer.
James Bond
10-02-2007, 09:51 PM
Well, at risk of being boring about it, on reflection, maybe the actual truth is * . . . drumroll . . . * somewhere in between. Isn't it possible that he was a little bit rude, not a lot, but a little, AND she overreacted? Hence we're taking sides with the role we identify with more?
She didn't over-react, she countered his rudeness with equal rudeness. Who gets the blame in all fights at school? The person who threw the first punch.
Why? Because the second person would've never reacted in the first place without the action of the first person. If said asshole wouldn't have been rude in the first place, the dancer would've just walked away. :teacher:
I'm not buying the story of the innocent bystander who was given the bird by a dancer for no reason. :no_way:
^^ 007..seriously. You don't have to be a suck up. I mean, I understand but still. You can have a contrary opinion and the women won't get all that upset with you.
FBR
GentlemanX
10-02-2007, 10:30 PM
LOL at James Bond. Correct assessment by FBR.
I actually thought the girl that gave me the finger looked so completely hot doing it that I almost didn't care except I wanted to see her naked, er topless. lol
BalletBaby
10-02-2007, 10:44 PM
He did say "No, I think I'm good for now". When a customer says that to me I'm off to find my next target; it's the ones who invite me to sit down with no intention of spending (or hell, just no money) that make me want to plow my 6-inches up people's bums. But then I'd have to sterilize them of course.
Anyway none of us were there, maybe he said something really obnoxious that he's not telling us about or maybe the dancer was just a bitch who doesn't know how to accept 'no' for an answer. We could get all hypothetical about this, but eh why bother.
Djoser
10-03-2007, 02:27 PM
I'm with FBR and Katrine on this one, but there isn't much time before work to elaborate. If the thread isn't closed when I get off work tonight, maybe I will be able to, lol.
Silverback
10-03-2007, 07:23 PM
Well, at risk of being boring about it, on reflection, maybe the actual truth is * . . . drumroll . . . * somewhere in between. Isn't it possible that he was a little bit rude, not a lot, but a little, AND she overreacted? Hence we're taking sides with the role we identify with more?
That rational, middle-of-the-road type of thinking is going to ruin everything around here! >:(
Djoser
10-04-2007, 04:55 AM
Bottom line is, without being there and witnessing body language, tone of voice, inflexion, etc., we have no idea who was really rude in this situation. The OP, the dancer trying to hustle him, her friend--or all of them.
Saying the dancer had a 'spare tire' might be unnecessarily graphic in its negative imagery, and not very diplomatic when some members here might have weight problems--but maybe the guy was just trying to make clear just how unappealing she was, and how unwelcome her attempt to snare him as a customer was.
I have been in his shoes, trying to be polite and friendly with a woman who was extraordinarily unappealing, in a club where serious claims are staked merely by a woman asking to sit down with you, and you politely saying "Sure, why not?".
Way back as a customer, many years ago, I have been dismayed when the least appealing woman in the entire club sat down and tried to get me to get dances from her, and I saw the one I might have spent money on steering a wide berth away from my table as a result.
As a DJ I have listened innumerable times to extremely unattractive dancers throwing a fit because a much more appealing dancer got the customer she wanted. I try to be polite and diplomatic about it, but my sympathy is generally with the customer in these cases.
But then I have worked in clubs with very low hiring standards.
xdamage
10-04-2007, 04:53 PM
Well, at risk of being boring about it, on reflection, maybe the actual truth is * . . . drumroll . . . * somewhere in between. Isn't it possible that he was a little bit rude, not a lot, but a little, AND she overreacted? Hence we're taking sides with the role we identify with more?
Of course I wasn't there, and yet often when it comes to confrontations between people the truth is indeed somewhere in the middle ground, and people being what they are, often do seem to re-memorize history in a way that paints themselves in a positive light. Is it the case this time? I sure don't know, but lacking the full story or both sides, my mind tends to assume that it's a bit of both parties.
ironmaidern
10-09-2007, 08:44 PM
As many time as I have read that stripping is really a business, then let's think of it that way. If someone is trying to sell you a service (however that's defined), the customer has a right to say no. For the stripper to get offended is bad business. I would have reported her to the manager for this behavior.