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jaizaine
10-07-2007, 07:15 AM
LOL @ Craigslist.

I have been used by many guys when I was younger because I wanted attention from men and put out to get it. Even if I was horny and wanted it, just personally it never felt good when a guy fucked me just to get his nut off (sorry crude I know). I was always left feeling used. I remember one occasion feeling like a blow updoll while a guy persisted to thrust himself into me after I said it was hurting me because he told me that he was going to cum soon. Maybe from back in those days I have been left feeling sensitive towards this issue and I accept that. But nowdays I would want a guy to care about me at least on some level if I allowed him to sleep with me.

Even in casual sex situatons where both parties know what it's about someone usually feels a little hurt or disappointed. Not harmed tho I concede.

Mastridonicus
10-07-2007, 07:27 AM
LOL @ Craigslist.

I have been used by many guys when I was younger because I wanted attention from men and put out to get it. Even if I was horny and wanted it, just personally it never felt good when a guy fucked me just to get his nut off (sorry crude I know). I was always left feeling used. I remember one occasion feeling like a blow updoll while a guy persisted to thrust himself into me after I said it was hurting me because he told me that he was going to cum soon. Maybe from back in those days I have been left feeling sensitive towards this issue and I accept that. But nowdays I would want a guy to care about me at least on some level if I allowed him to sleep with me.

Even in casual sex situatons where both parties know what it's about someone usually feels a little hurt or disappointed. Not harmed tho I concede.

HAND. TO. MOUTH.

Such LANGUAGE.

Yea, the point here, is that we really don't know, ya know? We can't say all casual sex is or isn't emotionally consequential. What we CAN do is know what it is TO OURSELVES, and try our damnedest to remain true to ourselves and what we want for ourselves and try not to judge others for doing the same thing :D

Sh0t
10-07-2007, 08:03 AM
Of much more importance--the issue of what sex is all about. Is it ego gratification? In your case, apparently so. Your most important goal in life is to fuck a thousand women.
Nah, that's just a "dating" goal. I've got a much more important whole life goal. In fact, women have become minimized a bit because of my more primary purpose.


You have gladly sacrificed a five year friendship to get only one step closer to this goalYup, because in my experience, women make terrible friends TO MEN, so it's usually not much lost. And most of the time the guy is only friends because he wants something, anyway, on the other side of the coin.


You have a 'complete collection of strippers', and you are surprised that the one black stripper among them is nice to you. I'm surprised she's nice because she's a black stripper. Most of them I've met have been mean and callous. Not because of her attitude towards ME in particular. People are usually always nice to me in general because I'm a nice friendly guy towards them.
As far as the collection goes, it was a stripper i met FROM HERE! who gave me a lecture about a "man stable." She professes every girl needs a mechanic guy, a computer guy, a finacial guy, a lover guy, to complete her dating life. One man for each potential area she might need a favor. She was unusually eloquent, but I don't think unusual in the sentiment.


Christ, if I said that, they'd nail my ass to the wall. maybe. They think it's hilarious on my end. "Oh so, I'm in the asian one huh? How come you don't have a latina?" Guys catch more feelings about it than girls typically


I think there is good in you, but you have to drop the shallow conquest games to really find it. I'm not too worried about finding the good in myself. I'm practice active in my political activism to help change the world, I've fought and bled a bit for my country overseas(though I disagree with the politics these days), I ain't listening to fucker who hasn't on that.


The fact of the matter is, whether you want to face up to the fact or not, that women can very, very rarely have sex with someone without some form of emotional involvement. nope. Male view of the world myth man. That's wishful thinking on the part of guys. I have no idea on a percentage, but a good chunk of women can have sex with the guy being not much more than an organic vibrator. My view of the world is that it is usually MEN who get more emotional about it, on average. The complete reverse of the conventional wisdom, but my experiences have cultivated this view.

In fact, I truly believe the #1 reason why guys don't get more easy ass is because the women are afraid the guy will take it to mean too much. I get random booty calls from "friends" of "friends" because they know for sure I won't and thus it lets them have a nice meaningless fuck without any fear of some guy stalking them, pressuring them for a relationship, whatever.


but when you fuck women, they are going to have an emotional reaction--they are human, after all White knight myth, in my opinion. I've long had that view eroded. I stopped believing that at 22, because it proved to be wrong, in my experience.


I'm not trying to condemn you, but I think you need to open your eyes. Open my eyes to what exactly? I'm basing my views off what i see IN THE FIELD with women. Not kicking back daydreaming about what they might feel.


And please, enough with the "SW Better Sex Series". We already have enough self-styled experts on the subject.
You just sound like a hater now. The thread was popular, and I learned a lot. I'm glad I posted the thread and thanks to the 2 ladies who told me to go ahead and do it.

-----------


There is something seriously shallow and wrong with a person who wants to fuck people for the sake of numbers. That's just plain horrible.
Forums need a "real talk" tag. Guys really think this way, honey. You'd be pretty disgusted. We can be quite disgusting. Not the SW white knights of course, but a good chunk of the rest of us are actually pretty shallow, IF they can afford to be that way. If a guy bangs a fattie from a bar while having beer goggles, you can bet she's just a notch and a masturbatory aid for the most part. Women use men for money and favors, men don't tend to do that as often, but we do do this.

I'm actually better than a lot because I've come around full circle to appreciate women more than I did. Unlike how my boy CO said above, because I've become jaded with sex, I can almost more appreciate women as people because their sexual connotation has been whittled down.

Players make the best boyfriends once they can be settled.

-----


I think most men need to take some serious lessons on reading female sexual response though. I can't tell you how many times some dude has apparently misread me pulling away for enjoyment

I think you're right. Once a girl and I are regulars, I try to work out some kind of system where she tugs my ears or something when I'm doing it really well as a signal that she wants me to keep doing that. I never had much hair, so I miss out on the hair pulling signal system.

Jenny
10-07-2007, 08:09 AM
He firmly believes he is NOT manipulating these women.
Um. The fact that he has this firm belief is not indication in and of itself that he isn't.


I'm not trying to be rude here, but telling Sh0t he's despicable because he's promiscuous is like telling Bridgette she's despicable because "she fucks who she wants when she wants and how she wants", Or you're saying that should a woman like her meet Sh0t, one of them would bare the emotional scare of their one-night sexual romp. The only difference between Sh0t's quotes and Bridgette's, is he quantifies his and scores them. Which we really don't know if Bridgette does because she's never said. (Sorry for dragging you in on this, I just see you as an equally sexually liberated female)
I don't want to drag Bridgette into it either, so I will discuss it in hypotheticals. You don't see a difference in having a healthy sexual appetite, and gratifying yourself and your partner in a sensual way and simply using that partner as part of a status issue? I see a big difference there. I don't think Sh0t is despicable either. But he is not anywhere close to being as sexually liberated as Bridgette. He says himself that he can't maintain an erection throughout coitus and that he gets bored as soon as he is assured of the conquest - yes, before the sex. That is not liberation. That is repression. If it were a woman we would think she needs counseling. Hell I do know women like that - and I think they need counseling. Probably as does Sh0t. There is probably some latent childhood trauma in there somewhere.


Is degrading to women. It assumes that men looking for NSA's are predators, and all women they get are being taken advantage of. These are big girls, despite how we view the act, who the fuck are we to be an authoritative white knight in the lives of people we know even LESS of and are acting out simply because Sh0t lists them off in the order of how they value to him most: Sexually. I could list tons of threads and posts of women doing the same thing and getting smoke blown up their asses by MALE posters about how "Well it's HIS problem if he didn't understand the arrangement"
Again, I think this is a bit of an oversimplification. It does assume that, statistically more men than women are looking for NSA sex. But I think that is an assumption that we would all be by and large comfortable with. It also assumes that men who aren't interested in sex with you, in giving you pleasure or really even in receiving pleasure but are only interested in getting you to say "yes" as a part of a social validation are perhaps likely to be dishonest and disrespectful - again that is not an assumption that I'm uncomfortable with. See the issue is not that Sh0t is looking for NSA sex. It is what he is looking for it FOR.

RoseWhite
10-07-2007, 08:18 AM
He says himself that he can't maintain an erection throughout coitus and that he gets bored as soon as he is assured of the conquest - yes, before the sex.

But gosh, he gets so many "random booty calls" from his "regulars", how DOES he keep them satisfied if he can't keep it up?!?

(Whaddaya know, after all the success of this thread, it turns out to have come directly from the suffering caused by erectile dysfunction striking at an early age. Cue the violins.)

Sh0t
10-07-2007, 08:20 AM
Hey, be nice! Women don't have to maintain an erection like us. That is hard work.

I'm beyond sexual liberation. I'm not a revolutionary, anymore. I'm sexually bourgeoisie.

And yes, please don't drag her name in this mud. My favorite nerd deserves better.

You'd be surprised how many men are similar though. A lot of guys I know also have ED, fake orgasms, etc, because we have become a bit jaded. When I asked a men's forum recently if other guys fake orgasms with women because the sex really wasn't enjoyable, I got far more yesses than I expected.

I feel perfectly healthy, I can still fall in love, get emotional and cuddle, whatever. I'm in love with about five girls right now, actually. I fall in love every two weeks.
In many ways, I'm kinda like a girl. Most girls can get sex whenever they want, so some begin to invent weird esoteric reasons they need satisfied before they give it up.

-edit-
I will be really honest here because several of my real life lady friends are lurking this thread(and forum) and I figure why not let them know indirectly. They think it's hilarious, so I don't feel so embarassed.

The ED isn't that big a deal, but i does require a bit of focus on my part on not getting distracted. Like many women(and guys), my mind starts to wonder and when it does, my erection tags along. I bought viagra recently but I'm a bit scared to take it. I'm making due so far without it though.

I never had ED in high school, my major problem was my left leg used to always shake when I was undress a girl. Looking back in hindsight, it was pretty amusing.

Mastridonicus
10-07-2007, 08:24 AM
Um. The fact that he has this firm belief is not indication in and of itself that he isn't.

I agree completely. However the people I was responding to are taking personal emotional views of the topic and assuming that he just IS.



You don't see a difference in having a healthy sexual appetite, and gratifying yourself and your partner in a sensual way and simply using that partner as part of a status issue? I see a big difference there. I don't think Sh0t is despicable either. But he is not anywhere close to being as sexually liberated as Bridgette. He says himself that he can't maintain an erection throughout coitus and that he gets bored as soon as he is assured of the conquest - yes, before the sex. That is not liberation. That is repression. If it were a woman we would think she needs counseling. Hell I do know women like that - and I think they need counseling. Probably as does Sh0t. There is probably some latent childhood trauma in there somewhere.


True in your argument of liberation v. repression. But in terms of steering to far off course since I agree, I did bring up the liberation in regards to Sh0t as viewed by Bridgette. Conquest aside, the point I was merely making is that Bridgette is happy with what she does, so is Sh0t. Why are we attacking him from the point of view of his partners versus Bridgette's, or hell, anyone who's contributed. We certainly aren't his or her partners, so we're not sure if they're being wronged by mid coitus flaccidity.



Again, I think this is a bit of an oversimplification. It does assume that, statistically more men than women are looking for NSA sex. But I think that is an assumption that we would all be by and large comfortable with. It also assumes that men who aren't interested in sex with you, in giving you pleasure or really even in receiving pleasure but are only interested in getting you to say "yes" as a part of a social validation are perhaps likely to be dishonest and disrespectful - again that is not an assumption that I'm uncomfortable with. See the issue is not that Sh0t is looking for NSA sex. It is what he is looking for it FOR.

Comfortable assumptions on the wide scale does not make for accuracy on the individual scale.

I agreed a long time ago that it's weird that he has to count it, and grade it. You won't get any argument from me on that front.

I just despise this overwhelming view point that the women similar in Sh0t's situation just aren't capable of seeing the "player" for what he is and still choosing to sleep with him, and obviously in need of being saved and protected from the harsh world. Two consenting adults are Two consenting adults. As long as it's Safe, Clean, and Honest. I don't give a fuck if he showers off in his own bullshit afterwards :/

Jenny
10-07-2007, 08:25 AM
Hey, be nice! Women don't have to maintain an erection like us. That is hard work.I fully believe that it is very difficult to maintain an erection when you don't really enjoy sex. Again - the trauma. Childhood sexual trauma frequently results in frigidity. I personally think everyone is being a little hard on you, considering.

Yekhefah
10-07-2007, 08:26 AM
^^^ :laughing: I agree that Sh0t has issues but he sounds like a normal teenage boy to me... his issue is probably just good old-fashioned immature insecurity. Poor guy is so insecure around the other men that their opinion of his sex life matters more than his own satisfaction. That's pretty sad.

What rankles, though, is his firm conviction that all other men are exactly like him. It reminds me of my mother, who is just as firmly convinced that no woman in the world enjoys sex, and those women who "pretend" to love it are pathetically manipulative. It's a shame that our society's fucked-up attitude toward sex has produced these two extremes.

RoseWhite
10-07-2007, 08:27 AM
For the record, I agree that making the assumption that women, or even "most women", HAVE to have some sort of an emotional connection to have sex is actually sexist.

It doesn't make having sex only for the purpose of notch-collecting or novelty any more noble. Whether it comes from the male or female side.

Sh0t
10-07-2007, 08:28 AM
Most men don't have to count because they never get off their fingers anyway.

I don't recall grading "it" outside of in discussions like this.

Besides, women almost invariably ask you "how many partners" so in the interest of honest disclosure I tell them the truth usually prefaced with "you don't wanna know..."


@ Yek

Do all men think this way? Nope. I would say most do IF THEY CAN AFFORD TO. However, what men say when women are watching is quite different than what they say when they think women can't hear.

Jenny
10-07-2007, 08:30 AM
Conquest aside, the point I was merely making is that Bridgette is happy with what she does, so is Sh0t. Why are we attacking him from the point of view of his partners versus Bridgette's, or hell, anyone who's contributed. We certainly aren't his or her partners, so we're not sure if they're being wronged by mid coitus flaccidity.
Why are we putting conquest aside? And obviously - happiness in oneself is not the sole measure of a human being. There is also that issue of how we treat other people. A sexually liberated woman (or man) who is interested in having sex as an exercise in pleasure is INHERENTLY different than one using his or her partner in a social hierarchy. I don't want to put that aside. That is the point. That is what everyone is attacking. Not the fact that he has sex. So why are we ignoring the precise element that makes them different and then saying "see, they're the same!"? I just don't understand the rationale there.


Comfortable assumptions on the wide scale does not make for accuracy on the individual scale.
No. But in the absence of evidence or indications to the contrary if something nearly inevitably TENDS to happen when people behave in a certain way, it is pretty safe to assume it is happens for the purposes of any given conversation. I would agree that the assumption would be inappropriate if we were placing Sh0t in a control group.

RoseWhite
10-07-2007, 08:33 AM
What rankles, though, is his firm conviction that all other men are exactly like him. It reminds me of my mother, who is just as firmly convinced that no woman in the world enjoys sex, and those women who "pretend" to love it are pathetically manipulative. It's a shame that our society's fucked-up attitude toward sex has produced these two extremes.



What rankles, though, is his firm conviction that all other men are exactly like him. It reminds me of my mother, who is just as firmly convinced that no woman in the world enjoys sex, and those women who "pretend" to love it are pathetically manipulative. It's a shame that our society's fucked-up attitude toward sex has produced these two extremes.

I just thought I'd repeat that. That is EXACTLY what rankles. Jenny was right on before, too, when she pointed out that so much chauvinistic bullshit is framed with an "I'm just being honest". Well, that's true, that particular person IS being honest. But it doesn't mean that he speaks for everyone. When a Klansman says racist things, he, too, is being honest, about HIS opinions. In fact, assuming that just because YOU feel a certain way must mean EVERYONE feels that way is actually either incredibly childish or incredibly narcissistic. Or both.

Shot, just because a few of your buddies share your views doesn't mean all men do (or that "all men would if they could" - nice try there, though). It just means that you've chosen friends who are like you. Sorry to be Captain Obvious about it.

Mastridonicus
10-07-2007, 08:47 AM
Why are we putting conquest aside?

Cause I don't feel like inventing constructive arguments on points we already agree on. In doing so I have to take the negative side which makes me out to be Sh0t's cohort. Which I am not.




And obviously - happiness in oneself is not the sole measure of a human being. There is also that issue of how we treat other people. A sexually liberated woman (or man) who is interested in having sex as an exercise in pleasure is INHERENTLY different than one using his or her partner in a social hierarchy. I don't want to put that aside. That is the point. That is what everyone is attacking. Not the fact that he has sex. So why are we ignoring the precise element that makes them different and then saying "see, they're the same!"? I just don't understand the rationale there.

Because if you assume that there isn't a significant amount of women that would still sleep with him knowing they're only a status symbol in his eyes, then I'm going to assume there is a huge amount of men that are at home and hurt because they really thought she was going to call the next day.


I just don't see where there is anymore likelihood of a "victim" in his situation versus hers. I assume she is honest and up front as well. What's it mean to the VICTIM if she has a calendar with suns for when she got oral, and houses for all the way? That's a problem he seriously needs to look at that wont be fixed by saving these manufactured victims. Which is MY point.



No. But in the absence of evidence or indications to the contrary if something nearly inevitably TENDS to happen when people behave in a certain way, it is pretty safe to assume it is happens for the purposes of any given conversation. I would agree that the assumption would be inappropriate if we were placing Sh0t in a control group.

I can't argue this. I wont. Simply providing a counter assumption would just come across as agreeing with Sh0t's methods. It's just an assumption. We both know Sh0t's talking about something much more than NSA whereas the contrast is a healthy sexual appetite.

Djoser
10-07-2007, 08:50 AM
I'm practice active in my political activism to help change the world, I've fought and bled a bit for my country overseas(though I disagree with the politics these days), I ain't listening to fucker who hasn't on that.

Sorry, this doesn't make sense to me. "Practice active in my political activism"? "I ain't listening to fucker who hasn't on that"? What?



Open my eyes to what exactly? I'm basing my views off what i see IN THE FIELD with women. Not kicking back daydreaming about what they might feel.

You just sound like a hater now...

IN THE FIELD? What the hell does that mean? Like hunting? And who's kicking back daydreaming? I'm basing my opinion on having seen even promiscuous women get pissed off because the casual fucks didn't call them back, over and over and over again. I've seen women complain about it right here in the forum, actually, numerous times--far more than I've seen them bragging about the number of dicks they've had.

Sure there are some women out there who can have casual, no strings sex, and might even prefer it--but proportionally, most of them wind up getting emotional about it somehow.

Time and time again you see blow ups and drama as a result of this shit, especially in the clubs, because people were fucking each other with no consideration for the consequences. It happens with women, too.

The most predatory manager I have ever seen (except maybe the rapist, and trust me I have seen some real scumbag managers in 8 years) was a woman, who used to say to the dancers that sex with her was different, because "it doesn't mean anything". It worked really well, too. She fucked a lot of dancers.

But we lost 4-5 dancers in the space of about 6 months, because of the ensuing bitter arguments they invariably had. They got emotional about it, every fucking time, lol. It was a small club, too, we needed every dancer we could get.

And I wasn't hating you. I wouldn't have written that if I had hatred or contempt for you. If I have contempt for people I don't care what they think. I wrote it because I thought I might actually like you if we ever met, and I was drinking some wine, and actually feeling friendly, believe it or not.

But if I was going to be friendly, I had to be honest, like you asked the guy above to be. At this point I wonder if I should have, but it's no big deal.

You said before that fucking a lot of women could make you somewhat misogynistic, but you tried to be polite about it. Does calling women 'honey' and 'baby' when you don't know them mean you are being polite?

Sh0t
10-07-2007, 09:39 AM
Not hating as in loathing, but a hater, as in rap vernacular.

I meant to say "pretty active", as in I am pretty active in my area of activism and a combat veteran, so I'm not too worried about being a good person as I have put something on the line for what I believe in. I don't take dating or sex that seriously to get that melodramatic about it.



Sure there are some women out there who can have casual, no strings sex, and might even prefer it--but proportionally, most of them wind up getting emotional about it somehow.

I know that's the conventional wisdom, but I just can't hold it anymore. I see more guys getting hurt than women with regards to casual sex these days. Maybe it's because I'm not playing emopon to anybody these days, but it seems to be men are taking sex as more than it is to me. Women don't like to be lied to, but I've seen most handle NSA sex without any problem whatever.

I tend to call people by their names in most cases, I'm not big on pet names like 'baby' and 'honey'. A lot of my misogyny comes from the scenarios above actually, where the men are the ones getting emotionally hurt because of NSA sex from the women's viewpoint. But as Mast post illustrates, they should have known better, so I've reconsidered a lot of it in the last year.


Shot, just because a few of your buddies share your views doesn't mean all men do (or that "all men would if they could" - nice try there, though). It just means that you've chosen friends who are like you. Sorry to be Captain Obvious about it.
Ah, but I'm not talking about my friends. Or rather, not just my close friends. I'm talking meeting five new guys a week on average through the PU community as they come through San Diego, or as I travel myself. The SW guys are of course cut from a different cloth, but a lot of men think otherwise.

What men say what women can hear is usually quite different from what they say when it's "guy's night." The same proverbial "nice guys" are just as crass in closed circles as somebody might accuse me for being. They are just manipulative when courting women, using flowers and candy instead of their normal personality.

To be honest, what I've seen is that women will treat you in the manner you show them. If you present a "courting" model to them, they will go along with that. If you are a known player and manwhore, the same girl will use you for useless fucks. If you are a rich sucker who throws money out in pursuit of love, they'll go to Rodeo drive with your wallet, etc. Same girl, but many faces.

Outside of one major exemption(that's you Cristyn), most of the girls I see regularly have at least 3 guys in their life. They almost all have some cuddle bitch who is not fucking them, but often hangs out with them. They have some regular dude who is courting them but not quite yet having sex with. And then they have one guy or several who comes by after their date with the prior guy is over and they just want to get laid. I can fit this model to at least 5 girls i know very well right now. there are a few other archetypes, but these 3 roles are very common from what I've seen among single women with self-esteem.

Jenny
10-07-2007, 10:42 AM
Because if you assume that there isn't a significant amount of women that would still sleep with him knowing they're only a status symbol in his eyes, then I'm going to assume there is a huge amount of men that are at home and hurt because they really thought she was going to call the next day.
I maintain that there is a difference in sexually pursuing someone because you want to have sex as opposed to pursuing them because you want a status symbol and bragging rights. That IS a difference. Saying "that difference aside" - you can't put that difference aside when that exact difference is what is being questioned Nobody would think that there was much wrong with Sh0t just wanting to have sex. People here are questioning his ethics and mental health because of his reasons. You can't just take the reasons out of the equation and still expect it to make sense.



I just don't see where there is anymore likelihood of a "victim" in his situation versus hers. I assume she is honest and up front as well. What's it mean to the VICTIM if she has a calendar with suns for when she got oral, and houses for all the way? That's a problem he seriously needs to look at that wont be fixed by saving these manufactured victims. Which is MY point.
Well there you go. I disagree. I think a woman (or man) is much more likely to be victimized by someone who has a pathological need to use people for status than by someone who just enjoys sex. I don't assume he is honest and up front, because I don't think, based on the neuroses he's exhibited here, he is capable of being honest and upfront. And really - what would honest and upfront be in this situation? I don't really want to fuck you, and I get no pleasure from your body - nor am I particularly interested in giving you pleasure, but nailing you will give me some bragging rights with my buddies?"


I can't argue this. I wont. Simply providing a counter assumption would just come across as agreeing with Sh0t's methods. It's just an assumption. We both know Sh0t's talking about something much more than NSA whereas the contrast is a healthy sexual appetite.
Well knock yourself out by not arguing. I don't mind. I would say that rather than coming across as agreeing with his methods that you would just want to show some reason that he would be different than what we both perceive as the norm. But I don't think that exists here.

Djoser
10-07-2007, 10:51 AM
I know that's the conventional wisdom, but I just can't hold it anymore. I see more guys getting hurt than women with regards to casual sex these days. Maybe it's because I'm not playing emopon to anybody these days, but it seems to be men are taking sex as more than it is to me. Women don't like to be lied to, but I've seen most handle NSA sex without any problem whatever.

I tend to call people by their names in most cases, I'm not big on pet names like 'baby' and 'honey'. A lot of my misogyny comes from the scenarios above actually, where the men are the ones getting emotionally hurt because of NSA sex from the women's viewpoint.

Well this makes sense to me, thanks for explaining it so well. I can understand how you feel, and I agree with you to some extent. Men can get hurt, just the same as women, much as they like to pretend they don't have emotions.

And women aren't always the victims in these sexually charged situations, always suffering at the hands of invariably cruel, callous, manipulative men. I have seen many cruel, callous, manipulative women use men in a variety of ways, though it's more often for their money or power and what it can get the woman, from my experience. It's a two-way street for sure.

Trust me--no one who has worked in this business can be the fucking White Knight for long, they will rip you to shreds, lol. Especially in some clubs, like a couple I worked in in Daytona.


What men say what women can hear is usually quite different from what they say when it's "guy's night." The same proverbial "nice guys" are just as crass in closed circles as somebody might accuse me for being. They are just manipulative when courting women, using flowers and candy instead of their normal personality.

This is absolutely true. Whatever I think of what you are doing, I have a lot more respect for someone like you than I do for someone who pretends to be a romantic, smarmy schmuck just to get laid--or worse yet, get the women/victims in abusive relationships.

RoseWhite
10-07-2007, 11:05 AM
The "PU community"? Thank you for proving my point even further! I think a lot of us can rest our cases on that now.

Sh0t
10-07-2007, 11:11 AM
LOL, My mental health is in question? It's not that big a deal, homie girl.

Unlike some posters, I don't get off to seeing my nick in other people's posts, so you can just go ahead and take it for granted my mental health is whatever you feel it is and just talk in general.

I just wanted some feedback on a particular sexual question, but the usual crowd turned it into a thread where they flirt via bickering.

I emailed the link to a few people, and they overwhelmingly agree with the points emphasized by the helpful ladies who posted above. I feel like I'm in a bit of connodrum now though because the almost all seem to say that manual stimulation is better with lubrication, but carrying some with you at all times is bound to get you a few inquisitive stares. "Oh, you just KNEW you were getting some, eh?". Worse than carrying condoms all the time.

I will share something I have learned though. It's cheaper to buy lube in bulk, but you can't walk around with a big bottle(well you could but it would mark you as "something"), so I use a travel sized bottle and just keep refilling it from the larger one. I used to have this really cool refillable thing that looked like a micro-sized toothpaste tube, but I lost it when I had my car accident.


^^Yea, that and pushing on it like it's a doorbell. Or using a bent finger on my clit, trying to rub it. Whatthehell? That only happened to me once amazingly, and by this guy who was 32, xtremely awesome, and had a live in gf of 3 years. How the hell does she stay with him?? No wonder they are not having sex so he wants some on the side...Oh and a LARGE ass cock. What a waste of a big cock.

Yea, it's really bad how it's either one way or the other, never as normal as the good ol bj, what's up with that? I think it's the old man/Sopranos attitude about it, still infiltrating adults today...maybe in future decades...ya know?

I can't say for sure, but there are some sex books out there that recommend something similar to the doorbell movement you are describing. I've seen stuff that says "tap on the cliterous lightly" in quite a few books, usually the more new agey stuff.

I think oral sex for us is similar. Maybe we just forget about the "passable" ones, but blowjobs tend to be amazing or bad. But it's nice they tried

White & Nerdy
10-07-2007, 11:11 AM
I had an ex-girlfriend who loved for me to give her cunnilingus. She went nuts when I licked her pussy. After a while, I think that's all she wanted.

I think I must have been a lesbian in a former life. :)

big_daddy
10-07-2007, 11:30 AM
No it's not over rated I wish like hell I would have done it more!!!!!!!

Mastridonicus
10-07-2007, 12:07 PM
Nobody would think that there was much wrong with Sh0t just wanting to have sex. People here are questioning his ethics and mental health because of his reasons. You can't just take the reasons out of the equation and still expect it to make sense.


But my argument was from the "manufactured victim"'s point of view. You just can't tell me that the "victim" is any worse off after a one night stand arrangement with a guy regardless of whether or not he's grading her. Healthy person initiating the NSA romp, or Captain Braggin, part of the responsibility falls on the person going into it that early on. It's a Risk.

You wont hear me say enough that sex for bragging rights, or even grading is symbolic of so many things that really aren't my business and should get checked out. But you wont bully me into saying that any/every girl he sleeps with is a victim.



I think a woman (or man) is much more likely to be victimized by someone who has a pathological need to use people for status than by someone who just enjoys sex.


Of course that's the case. Assuming that he's nice enough to remember their names and not just counting them.



I don't assume he is honest and up front, because I don't think, based on the neuroses he's exhibited here, he is capable of being honest and upfront.


I assume he IS honest and up front based on the neurosis he's exhibited here. I really don't think he cares about any one target long enough to lie to get in. In this case he's lost all respect for the individual and has completely reduced her to a couple of good holes and some distinguishing features followed by an mental check of how hard it would be for other people in his entourage to score her. I personally believe he could give a rats ass if she doesn't like the truth since he knows he'll find a 10 that doesn't give a rats ass either, or hell, she wont know him long enough to even ask. I doubt, when you care that little.



And really - what would honest and upfront be in this situation? I don't really want to fuck you, and I get no pleasure from your body - nor am I particularly interested in giving you pleasure, but nailing you will give me some bragging rights with my buddies?"


And if you think saying that wont entice women to prove him wrong, and/or test his statement, or even just fuck him cause maybe she just doesn't care, then you have a greater understanding of the human race than I do. I concede. Hell, I bet he's used something similar as an opener.



Well knock yourself out by not arguing. I don't mind. I would say that rather than coming across as agreeing with his methods that you would just want to show some reason that he would be different than what we both perceive as the norm. But I don't think that exists here.

I didn't say I wont argue. I said I CAN'T argue it. (Well I wont try to argue something I can't is what I meant) You pointing out that it's an assumption followed by the possibility that a control group may prove you wrong. There's no real counterpoint to that. You're validating an specific assumption based upon an widely accepted assumption while giving an exit clause. Not only is it true, but any argument would be an assumption example war.

I literally can't argue it.

It was NEVER about whether or not he was different than what we both perceive as the norm, just that from the so-called victim's point of view, if I went out and got laid tonight by some chick, and never hear from her again:

How am I more of a victim because she fucked me to add to her number counts and bragged/made fun to her friends about fucking me, versus, just telling her friends about it in recollection, in penis count reference, or hell, even just keeping it to herself?

It's all after-the-fact risks anyway, lets keep in mind that both a "Healthy Hookup" and a "Pickup" can happen in the exact amount of time and in the same conversation. Now you tell me how, after sex, I'm somehow more a victim and relieved of responsibility for going at the one night NSA?

Bridgette
10-07-2007, 12:38 PM
Players make the best boyfriends once they can be settled.Amen to that!! Almost every real boyfriend I've had was a player who settled it down with me. They are the best because they always loved women or have learned to appreciate us at least. Not the really young ones who are still trying to rack up their numbers, but the more experienced ones who've already done that and grown up a bit. The ones who are actually nice guys as they play around, who always seem to have lots of female friends (not just fuck buddies). Not the macho assholes who abuse women emotionally / mentally / physically - those guys are just assholes and will always be abusers/cheaters.

A man who loves women, or has learned to appreciate us as people will treat you better than any self-proclaimed "nice guy" ever will - once he finds a woman he cares to settle with.



Wow I just realized yall were comparing me and Sh0t. LMAO!! Ok, no I don't count and I don't do it for conquest. I just do who/what I like when the mood and opportunity strike. Although, I suppose one could say I sometimes go for a conquest because I most definitely go after the one I want at times. But I'm not doing it to meet some quota; I'm doing it because I saw someone I was attracted to, was horny and felt that person would be fun in the sack.

However, someone brought up promiscuity. This is not the same thing. Simply being promiscuous isn't always sexually liberated - most promiscuous females are basically letting guys take advantage of them in hopes of getting some emotional needs filled by those guys, and then they feel used when the guys don't give them what they want. I am most definitely NOT doing that. For me a fuck is just a fuck - something to be enjoyed in the moment and that's it. If it turns into something more, it's because we were both interested and it worked out (and probably because the sex was so good we kept doing it until we got to know and like each other LOL).


So yeah, I don't think comparing me and Sh0t in this context works. BUT I don't think that the simple fact he likes to score himself makes him an evil piece of shit. It seems he does care about making the women he's with feel good, at least for that moment, and he says he's honest about not wanting anything more than sex. So if a woman fucks him and then gets hurt because he doesn't call later, it's her problem. I doubt he tells them he's going to score them later or that he's fucking them just to rack up numbers. Really, who cares what the reason is? If he winds up a lonely, bitter old man because of his sexual practices, he's not hurting anyone but himself.


Also, I have to agree that most women can't handle knowing how most men REALLY view sex. I think Sh0t is probably in the majority....

Alaska
10-07-2007, 12:50 PM
^ Absolutely. I've been with my playboy for 3 years. His last serious relationship was '98, that was nice. Even tho just yesterday I got a letter from her after she disappeared forever...that was pretty crazy.

Djoser
10-07-2007, 12:55 PM
Amen to that!! Almost every real boyfriend I've had was a player who settled it down with me. They are the best because they always loved women or have learned to appreciate us at least. Not the really young ones who are still trying to rack up their numbers, but the more experienced ones who've already done that and grown up a bit. The ones who are actually nice guys as they play around, who always seem to have lots of female friends (not just fuck buddies). Not the macho assholes who abuse women emotionally / mentally / physically - those guys are just assholes and will always be abusers/cheaters.

The parallel to my observation about the best girlfriends.

That would be my stepfather. Hell, my dad was a player, too, and a much better looking guy, actually. But he tended to get involved and fall in love. In his book, and according to the way Love works as I see it, if you love someone you don't want others.

So my stepdad had way more women, I'm sure--and approached this image of the ideal recreational stud Bridgette describes. According to him, he was popular with all of them even after he moved along to the next. This is exceedingly difficult to pull off for most men, but I don't doubt he was pretty much telling the truth, I can tell by the way he talks about the women--he had respect for them.

And he was devoted to my mom, that's for sure! The guy spent the vast majority of his time when he wasn't working taking care of her (she had rheumatoid arthritis and needed constant attention). Though he did confess to me once after she died he had an affair once when they had a huge fight.

Vyanka
10-07-2007, 01:06 PM
For me it totally depends on the position, too. I don't like laying on my back and getting "eaten out." I LOVE sitting on a guys face, 69, or being bent over on all fours on the bed while he is behind me going at it. OOOHHHH DAWGIES!!! }:D


*fans self*

That's the best. Licking and fingering, with a smack on the ass.

Bridgette
10-07-2007, 01:30 PM
The parallel to my observation about the best girlfriends.Yeah, I know *I* make a great girlfriend ;D because along with actually liking men, if/when I decide to settle with someone it's because I'm genuinely into him, not just the idea of having a relationship. I think it works the same with any player type, male or female.

madmaxine
10-07-2007, 01:38 PM
^ Absolutely. I've been with my playboy for 3 years. His last serious relationship was '98, that was nice. Even tho just yesterday I got a letter from her after she disappeared forever...that was pretty crazy.

:scared: That's weird.

I don't have time to read this whole thread. I hate talking about relationships anyway.

I will agree that many people are much more shallow about relationships than they'd like to admit, even me. But it has to do with their surroundings sometimes. My family is very "fascist" in that their opinion would affect my relationships (which is why I don't live near them anymore, LOL.)

Glad to see this thread went in an interesting direction, though!

RandomUser
10-07-2007, 03:22 PM
Life is great if you find the partner who is sexually compatible to you. I have met women that have initimated that sex is an animal passion. We're animals.

But things mess us up along the way. I've had one women switch places with me and show me how she wants it done. Another who told me that she is "Always going to get hers" and I had better look after myself.

White & Nerdy
10-07-2007, 04:43 PM
That's the best. Licking and fingering, with a smack on the ass.

I heard the best way to lick pussy is to act like you're licking honey off a butterfly's wings. Works for me! :)

Lysondra
10-07-2007, 04:51 PM
I'm surprised she's nice because she's a black stripper. Most of them I've met have been mean and callous. Not because of her attitude towards ME in particular. People are usually always nice to me in general because I'm a nice friendly guy towards them.

Am I the only one who didn't miss this lovely racist comment?

Mily
10-07-2007, 04:56 PM
^No, you're not.

:no:

Lexi
10-07-2007, 06:22 PM
I heard the best way to lick pussy is to act like you're licking honey off a butterfly's wings. Works for me! :)


Oh yes! :yes:

Sh0t
10-07-2007, 06:37 PM
I think I've been using too much pressure in most cases if that's the case. I try to relax my tongue a lot when kissing but quite a few girls have made me stiffen it up for licking pussy.

We need more experimentation to get the car running fast.

White & Nerdy
10-07-2007, 08:10 PM
Oh yes! :yes:

Note to self: meet Lexi one day

;D

Seriously, I watch porn, um, once in a while (yeah, that's the ticket!) and guys generally lick pussy the wrong way. They use their tongue like they're unclogging a drain!

Chloe437
10-07-2007, 08:18 PM
I love oral sex, even if it's just for a few minutes before intercourse it really warms me up!

Alaska
10-07-2007, 11:48 PM
Note to self: meet Lexi one day

;D

Seriously, I watch porn, um, once in a while (yeah, that's the ticket!) and guys generally lick pussy the wrong way. They use their tongue like they're unclogging a drain!

And what is that horrendous sucking/slurping going on? And it's like all teeth and lips....OWWW. I LOVE it sucked, but you can't even compare that porn shit...Budai hit it right on the head with ....they do it like corn on the cob....quote of the week....just typing that has me laughing my head off once again...

PrettyCurlieQ
10-08-2007, 12:31 AM
Okay... it depends on who is doing it.

I had a boyfriend who just LOVED going down on me, but he didn't give me the stimulation I needed, and it lasted forever because it never made me cum. So I could live without his oral sex. My boyfriend now is soooo good at it, but sometimes there's too much stimulation. When he's paying close attention, it's perfect and I'd let it go on for hours if my body wouldn't give out on me. But recently he's been lazy about sex, expecting head to get him up, fucking, the end. Not that it isn't great, but I miss getting oral sex. Now I'm gonna try to get some, damnit!

Budai
10-08-2007, 02:41 AM
Jessica Alba On Sex:
I could have sexual chemistry with vinegar.




Ironically, Miss Alba believes she's got DBA kitty...
(Logging off in order to watch "Sin City" for the umpteenth time...)

ExoticEngineer
10-08-2007, 09:02 AM
What's a DBA Kitty? :\

Budai
10-08-2007, 09:35 AM
What's a DBA Kitty? :\

Sorry, EE! :-[

DBA = "Da Bomb Azz"

Kitty = "Pussy"

Budai
10-08-2007, 09:54 AM
Courtesy of thescreamingho.com:



All your least favorite mistakes, including:

--Making like a gynecologist

--The head shake

--Blowing air up her coochie

--Drunken pussy eating

--Orthodontia and pubes don't mix

Sh0t
10-08-2007, 11:06 AM
@DjOser
I don't think reformed sluts automatically make the best girlfriends. You can't just automatically transfer over the blueprint for the opposite sex. TYPICALLY, women and men value different things, an compliment each other. Reformed sluts can have a lot of baggage, too.

For me, my favorite 'girlfriends' have varied wildly. My only real ex was about as bad as it got and used to sportfuck celebrities , but I've loved prudes, too. Sex is really just one facet of somebody's personality, most of the time you spend with a girlfriend isn't in bed, unless you are both paraplegics.

Most women don't really care how promiscuous a man has been before her, as long as he is honest and true to her from then on. Meanwhile, most men, have serious issues with dating and especially being married to a former "slut". I hate the word, but it's commonly used, and you all understand what I mean. A girl can be the sweetest girl in the world to a guy, but if he suddenly learns he's dating the former community hole of Lubbock, Texas, he will probably have some issues with it and it might even hurt their relationship. To deny this is to deny reality.

Women know this, that's why they typically guard their reputation.


]Also, I have to agree that most women can't handle knowing how most men REALLY view sex. I think Sh0t is probably in the majority....
It seems most men apparently can't either. They seem to not know how they think.


So if a woman fucks him and then gets hurt because he doesn't call later, it's her problem. I doubt he tells them he's going to score them later or that he's fucking them just to rack up numbers.
I don't "score" them, I just keep track of how many. And I call them all, I'm not really a one-night-stand-and-then-never-see-them-again kind of guy. I stay friends with all of them if I can. I'm not a malicious kind of guy, which has been painted on me here because of...whatever reason.

Actually, I tell every girl I meet exactly that, most think it's amusing and ask me how well it's going. Girls can handle this kind of honestly more than most men can, I think. A few even tell me they appreciate the sexual burden being lifted from them because there are others to pick up the slack. If it's true at the time anyway. Sometimes I'm too busy with work to have time for more than one girl, if even one.

On the original topic...

I would like to ask the guys and maybe the girls who partake, do you find it more comfortable to lay down on the bed too or do you prefer to kneel in front of the bed with her sitting with her butt closer to edge?

I think I am most comfortable when I'm kneeling in front of the bed, but for access's sake, I like to lay on the bed foot-to-head with her. I think this helps me be the most effective, but it seems to accelerate cramping and what not, and is a pretty awkward position for fingering sometimes.

Djoser
10-08-2007, 11:49 AM
@DjOser
I don't think reformed sluts automatically make the best girlfriends. You can't just automatically transfer over the blueprint for the opposite sex. TYPICALLY, women and men value different things, an compliment each other. Reformed sluts can have a lot of baggage, too.

...most men, have serious issues with dating and especially being married to a former "slut". I hate the word, but it's commonly used, and you all understand what I mean. A girl can be the sweetest girl in the world to a guy, but if he suddenly learns he's dating the former community hole of Lubbock, Texas, he will probably have some issues with it and it might even hurt their relationship. To deny this is to deny reality.

Women know this, that's why they typically guard their reputation.


Again, I agree substantially with what you say here. Most guys can't handle it. But then, I am not 'most guys', thank god...

It was me who initially used the term 'former slut', it should be me who apologizes for using it. Consider it done.


It was also me (among others) who came down pretty hard on you about your stated goal of fucking a thousand women. But as I said before, if I didn't think I'd probably like you somehow, if we ever met in person--regardless of philosophical/ethical differences, or whether certain of your statements and attitudes strike me as being less than perfect (and I don't claim perfection, either)--I wouldn't have bothered posting a reply.

I have had many friends who were much less circumspect, and much less forthright, about their aggressive pursuit of sexual conquest than you are being here. If you live in Daytona and don't want to be a hermit, your are going to be dealing with an amazing number of sportfuckers, many of whom employ methods considerably less sophisticated than you do.

I might not be able to admire your goals or methods in this regard, and I'm obviously not reticent about my disapproval of certain aspects of them, but I do admire your honesty, at least.

But you know, this is StripperWeb, honesty concerning sensitive issues such as these never kept people from responding with equal candor, lol! That's the beauty of this site, among other things.

All Good Things
10-08-2007, 12:23 PM
Courtesy of thescreamingho.com:



All your least favorite mistakes, including:

--Making like a gynecologist

--The head shake

--Blowing air up her coochie

--Drunken pussy eating

--Orthodontia and pubes don't mix

--Making like a gynecologist -- This is like playing around in the back of a TV with a screwdriver when the TV is on and you have no fucking idea what you are doing. Something is going to get fucked up, hurt and very sore (the TV) and somebody else, the genius with the screwdriver, is going to get the living hell shocked out of him when his finger meets the cap on the flyback transformer.

You never make like a gynecologist. You need to have an unusually intimate familiarity with the female anatomy, but your job is not to poke around and test your knowledge. Your knowledge should be evident by how your lover responds. You should master her body as best you know how and not talk about it. Your talk should be of the filthiest kind imaginable.

--The head shake. Lazy, stupid shit learned from porn. There is a method where this works with just the tip of the tongue, moving only the tongue, right on the clit, in increasingly rapid movement. Keep head still. Oh, and then there is the hilarious "motorboat" scene in "Wedding Crashers," where Vince Vaugn does this perfectly moronic head-shaking routine where his head is supposed to be between breasts, complete with motorboat sound effects.

-- Blowing air up her coochie. Guys, if you learn anything in this thread, please know you can never, ever do this. It is extremely dangerous and can cause air embolisms. Never, ever do this.

-- Drunken pussy eating. Yeah, save your enthusiasm, energy and skills for when you can use them. If you are that drunk, come on SW and post away instead. We cherish drunk posting.

--Orthodontia and pubes don't mix. Uh, true, but when was the last time you actually saw serious pubic hair on a woman? From my experience, every hottie in the US is Brazilian waxed with perhaps a thin line of hair that hardly resembles any natural state, or if they've gone Hollywood, which is becoming really popular, there will be none at all.

I also have a few thoughts for Sh0t and Djoser, but just haven't had the time to post in detail. I will soon, though.

Bridgette
10-08-2007, 12:34 PM
most men, have serious issues with dating and especially being married to a former "slut". I hate the word, but it's commonly used, and you all understand what I mean. A girl can be the sweetest girl in the world to a guy, but if he suddenly learns he's dating the former community hole of Lubbock, Texas, he will probably have some issues with it and it might even hurt their relationship. To deny this is to deny reality.

Women know this, that's why they typically guard their reputation.


Most men make shitty boyfriends/husbands too. Largely because of what you're describing here. If a guy is that hungup on how promiscuous his girlfriend is or isn't, he's got other, deeper issues (like jealousy and insecurity, and maybe some mommy issues) and this little hangup is just one manifestation among many to be found as the relationship develops. Jealousy and insecurity always make a guy a terrible boyfriend.

I won't bother trying to date some guy with this type of issue, and they always make it obvious right away so I know not to waste my time. This is another one of the reasons players often make better boyfriends - they are less likely to have such stupid hangups about sex.


And yeah, I'm no slut. Slut usually implies a woman is an easy target, will fuck anyone who's nice to her, etc. I am NONE of this. If anything I'm probably a harder sex target than most chics because I'm SO picky and will tell a guy to fuck off the instant he says one wrong word or makes one wrong move, and of course if he doesn't meet my ridiculously stringent appearance preferences, he hasn't got a chance in hell in the first place ;D

My point here is: there's a difference between slutty women and sexually liberated ones. Slutty ones probably don't make good girlfriends due to whatever issues that cause them to be so easy in the first place. Likewise, the simple fact a guy might get a lot of pussy doesn't mean he'll eventually make a great boyfriend. He may just be an abusive asshole taking advantage of insecure women - that guy will always be an asshole. Ultimately, a person's attitudes toward sex and how they approach it are a better indicator of what kind of partner s/he'll be - not just the numbers.

Djoser
10-08-2007, 12:45 PM
Truth--the word "slut", as used by most men in most situations, is ugly, inaccurate, and ignorant.

It was a bad attempt at humorously stating my opinion, and I apologize to anyone who might be offended.

Bridgette
10-08-2007, 12:58 PM
Djoser I'm not talking about use of the word slut here (in fact I think it's appropriate in this context and when properly defined), I'm talking about the difference between what people call a slut and what is better described as sexually liberated. Or with men, the difference between an abusive asshole and a player who really likes women.

Ie, the number of sex partners I've had might make me a slut, but the way I approach sex makes me....NOT a slut. Same goes with men. Once again, I think a person's attitude and approach to sex is a better indicator of what kind of partner they'll be than sheer number of fucks.

I think, depending on their attitudes, people who have alot of sex partners can make the best relationship partners.

Budai
10-08-2007, 01:06 PM
I think, depending on their attitudes, people who have alot of sex partners can make the best relationship partners.

I agree wholeheartedly, Bridgette. IMO, such partners seem less vulnerable to the twin dragons of Jealousy & Insecurity...