So teachers need guns now?
I was watching Fox news today [I'm weird and can't stop watching the news...I watch it at least 2-3 hours out of the day] and they were having a conversation about how teachers should have the right to carry guns to school; of course, with a permit and proper instruction.
news story
Video
Now, I'm thinking, why..its just going to make it worse. Students in fear of teachers holding guns especially now that students are aware that other students can bring guns to school. Its not just schoolyard bullies anymore students fear.
All the conversation was brought on by today's school shooting in Ohio. It was a sad ending as the shooter most likely ended up killing himself.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
Insane.
At The Hubby's first school, which admittedly is very inner-city, he went through all that crisis situation training. It scared the shit out of me that he had to do that--I mean, police were running through the halls, firing guns and pretending to be teachers under attack to test if he would disobey regulations and open the classroom door. It's unbelievably tragic.
Sigh and thank God no one was killed at this shooting but the perpetrator, and even that's so needless.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
Well if she is facing a real and specific threat (as opposed to there COULD be a Columbine and I'm unreasonably afraid) it is a favourable set of facts. I would be surprised though, the court said that the state or county could offer permits, but not limitations on those permits. I would have been incredibly intimidated and distracted at the thought of my classmates and teachers carrying weapons. And only an idiot thinks that arming a classroom will help prevent school violence.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
^^^ I must be an idiot then. Gunmen attack schools and university campuses because they know the people there will be defenseless. If there is a likelihood that someone else may be armed (especially someone older and better trained), would-be shooters will likely think twice and if they do attack, they can be disabled after the first or second shot instead of setting off on a spree.
Maybe it's just that I come from a part of the world where nearly everyone knows how to shoot, and we don't have this terrified awe of guns that some other places have. It's a machine, it doesn't do anything on its own and there's nothing magical about it. It doesn't turn anyone into a murderous psychopath, and it can save a life just as well as taking one. Nearly all the time, a gun sits quietly and harmlessly whether it's in a cabinet or a hip holster. So I don't see why you would be "incredibly intimidated and distracted" by the simple fact that someone else has a gun tucked away with his belongings. Are you also too intimidated to enjoy a restaurant meal because of the likelihood that the chef has a very large, sharp knife?
Re: So teachers need guns now?
IMO rather than this bs, they should have metal detectors at every entrance to the school and a few campus security people patrolling fences and what not to catch intruders.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
I seriously doubt the kind of people who become teachers would be the kind of people who could actually shoot a kid.
Metal detectors, bleh. We had them in my school and still had one of the worst gang problems in NYC alongside plenty of snuck into school firearms.
We even had a police station INSIDE the school on the top floor.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
^^ Yeesh! Ok, well then thanks for bringing that perspective to the table. I grew up in a middle-class neighborhood in suburban San Diego. :P
Re: So teachers need guns now?
I'm always amused by people who say they would be distracted if they knew someone has a gun.
They don't realize they are surrounded by people carrying every day. And I don't even mean illegal guns. I mean perfectly permitted, licensed guns.
I have a license to conceal, and I carry my gun everywhere. To the movies, restaurants, whatever. I get called paranoid, but it has gotten to the point where you just don't know anymore. I would rather be overprotetced than defenseless...like the poor kids killed in the middle of the day in a pizza parlor by a total stranger two days ago.
During the Virginia Tech aftermath, the first thought that hit me was...if only another student had had a gun. The shooter had what, 30 minutes? During which he stalked defenseless people and shot at will. If one student or teacher had a gun, it could have been ended in a few seconds, with far less lives than what happened.
And I think people would be a lot less likely to pull a gun on strangers if they weren't sure if that group had guns or not. That was the belief system behind air marshalls as well; that terrorists woul dbe less likely to hijack a plane if they thought there would be trained users of firearms on board.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
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Originally Posted by TheSexKitten
IMO rather than this bs, they should have metal detectors at every entrance to the school and a few campus security people patrolling fences and what not to catch intruders.
So rather than allow constitutional freedom to the adults on campus, we should set up a militaristic police state and foster a sense of mistrust, and treat all the innocent people as potential criminals?
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Originally Posted by Sh0t
I seriously doubt the kind of people who become teachers would be the kind of people who could actually shoot a kid.
I'm a teacher and you better believe I'd shoot a gunman who was threatening the lives of innocent students, whether he was a student too or not. I'd feel terrible about it, but it's better for one gunman to die than a dozen innocent victims.
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Originally Posted by kandie_kitten
And I think people would be a lot less likely to pull a gun on strangers if they weren't sure if that group had guns or not. That was the belief system behind air marshalls as well; that terrorists woul dbe less likely to hijack a plane if they thought there would be trained users of firearms on board.
Israeli air marshals go armed, in plainclothes, and there's never any guessing who they might be, how many there are on a particular flight, or where they might be sitting. Hot damn, El Al has not suffered a single hijacking since they instituted this policy.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
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Originally Posted by
Yekhefah
I'm a teacher and you better believe I'd shoot a gunman who was threatening the lives of innocent students, whether he was a student too or not. I'd feel terrible about it, but it's better for one gunman to die than a dozen innocent victims.
Even if that gunman is a student? The most obvious choice would probably be yes. One armed person against another armed person can get out of hand pretty quick.
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Originally Posted by
TheSexKitten
IMO rather than this bs, they should have metal detectors at every entrance to the school and a few campus security people patrolling fences and what not to catch intruders.
Who will pay for that? Who will pay for the campus police salaries and health insurance?
Re: So teachers need guns now?
Well, yeah. He's a direct threat to the lives of multiple innocents. Of course I'd shoot him to save their lives. What kind of person wouldn't? It'd be better to just let him keep killing people?
Re: So teachers need guns now?
Of course not. I'd shoot him (most likely him being as I don't know of any other female school shooters) too. Yet, what I was trying to get at was solving gun violence with more guns is not going to do much to put students, teachers and officials at ease. Its a big wish but students should acknowledge others with compassion. Just as the VT shooter was a social outcast and even his parents didn't notice or acknowledge his disturbing behavior. If there was more done to recognize another's negative behavior then there would be no need for others to want to carry guns to school with or without permits.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
Well, we can wring our hands and talk about our feelings all day long and it won't make guns disappear. Personally, I notice that this sort of thing happened far less often BEFORE we started coddling everyone's widdle feewings, and back when people knew there would be harsh and dire consequences for stepping that far out of line. It used to be commonplace for people to go around armed; in any given room, you never knew how many people would be packing. And this stuff just didn't happen back then, certainly not with this frequency.
People should not be afraid of guns. I don't know why our society is so hell-bent on teaching us to fear guns nowadays, but they are nothing to be afraid of. Fear a psychopath, fear a rapist, fear a murderer, but there's no reason to fear the gun itself. A psychopath/rapist/murderer is just as likely to hurt you without the gun, but a gun of your own can save countless lives.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
Its also guns in the wrong hands. Theres nothing wrong with using a gun within reason or carrying a gun with permit. What I don't like is the people using them. Seems too easy for a situation to get out of control and someone ends up dead and it isn't the criminal all even with knowledge of how to use one.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
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Originally Posted by
TigersMilk
Its also guns in the wrong hands. Theres nothing wrong with using a gun within reason or carrying a gun with permit.
Hmm, true. I think it can be a bit too easy to get a gun, but guns in the right hands do create a much more serious atmosphere for those considering starting shit, like Yek said.
Stricter gun laws, but availability... I remember when my dad was all schizo and manic and he walked into a Target andbought a shotgun to kill himself. It took under half an hour to buy I think, but this was in the early 90's. Things like that = bad. But otherwise, guns can protect people.
Re: So teachers need guns now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yekhefah
^^^ I must be an idiot then. Gunmen attack schools and university campuses because they know the people there will be defenseless.
What, you mean it being a "gun free zone" does not scare off a would be shooter? How can that be? Those are some very "extreme" views you have and I demand you stop using common sense, ergo:
Do "Gun-Free" Zones Encourage School Shootings?
by Larry Elder
Posted: 10/18/2007
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=22911
Here are a few excerpts:
"Do shooters consider schools "gun-free zones"? Do they consider it unlikely that any authority figure -- whether teachers or, in some cases, security guards -- poses an armed threat? But in some school shooting cases, guns helped to end shooting sprees and minimize loss of life and injury."
"Israel gets it. Since the 1970s, on school campuses in Israel, policy requires teachers and parent aides to arm themselves with semi-automatic weapons. The result? School shootings have plummeted to zero."
Re: So teachers need guns now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yekhefah
Israeli air marshals go armed, in plainclothes, and there's never any guessing who they might be, how many there are on a particular flight, or where they might be sitting. Hot damn, El Al has not suffered a single hijacking since they instituted this policy.
American air marshals are armed as are the others from other countries. Israeli *teachers* are armed as are their pilots. American pilots are now allowed to be armed, but it's not manditory as far as I know. A teacher I know after the VT tech shootings wrote:
A terrible tragedy. I know, I teach on college campus.
Once he starts to act, the only thing that can stop a single, psychotic killer who is willing to die is the rapid delivery of counter fire by whoever is near. Cop, civilian, it doesn't matter who or their job status. The more people who are nearby and capable of delivering return fire, the fewer and less serious the injuries (there's criminological data on this).
Virginia Tech. is a "gun free" zone guaranteeing that the psychotic killer had the only gun. He came prepared. He waited until there were no police in sight and then commenced his murderous acts certain that he would encounter no effective resistance. And , he didn't.
Twenty-one innocent dead because there was no one capable of fighting back. All they could do was cower or run.
Professor Joseph Olson, J.D., LL.M.
Hamline University School of Law
St. Paul, MN 55113-1235
[email protected]