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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
I never said I was for banning anything. The government is not there to enforce my disapproval. People definitely have the right to do plenty of things I consider unethical, and I wouldn't dream of interfering with that right no matter how heartily I disapprove.
I also agree that it's wrong to have children you can't support, but sometimes pregnancy happens to those who aren't prepared. In that case, I think adoption is the best choice. And perhaps more people would be inclined to provide their children with stable adoptive families if so many of those families weren't pouring all their money and efforts into bizarre vanity projects. Sure, I understand wanting to be pregnant. But I don't agree with the American mentality that we're all automatically entitled to have everything we want, especially at the expense of other people's needs.
But again, I'm not talking about government or banning anything, just personal ethics.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yek
That doesn't make that ethical, and it certainly doesn't mean they have an unalienable right to bizarre and expensive medical tactics to satisfy their vanity.
I would say they do have such a right if they have the right to spend their own money as they see fit. I abhor government(taxpayer) financing of ANYTHING, but if rich lesbians want to fund scientific experiments to procreate with male help, I, for one, welcome our Amazonian Neosapien overlords.
If we repealed child labor laws, that would help adoption rates tremendously as it could turn children from a net economic liability into a possible economic capital. Dicken' slander of them aside, the old Oliver Twist-like workhouses of England played a major role in caring for orphaned children, which were very common. Labor unions fought hard to put in child labor laws and truancy laws because they did not want to compete with working children. The result was a big detriment to children where such laws were enacted.
Imagine if instead of expensive machinery(automation is also subsidized by labor controls and immigration restrictions), companies had workhouses of orphans stuffing CD cases. The children would be productive, learn job skills, and perhaps become independent far earlier than normal children. It was quite often the case back-when.
To comment on what GymnastMom has said above, I think women should be able to have as many kids as they want, but NOBODY else should be forced to pay for them. That alone would reduce the amount people have, as the understanding of public assistance being available often encourages it. In my neighborhood growing up, young women viewed it as a viable strategy to have kids to collect bigger welfare checks. I even got propositioned to help.
I don't think we need to counter one bad(disallowing unnatural conceptions) with another one(tube tying of those deemed poor parent material). This was already done by the way, even here in America. In many ways, the Nazis copied OUR eugenics programs for germany.
See
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
It is a sad, sad day in America when people see no difference between legal rights and moral rights, and when people automatically assume that everyone wants the government to legislate his or her opinions.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
^^^ I remember reading about them offering pay for meth users to get their tubes tied and all kinds of ethics came up...
I had my daughter at 16 and if there were laws about not having money = not being able to care for your children therefor you are forced to have an abortion or sh*t like that Id have no daughter.
I just think once you have had 7 pregnancies and cant care for your children you should be shot. Thats all. Sorry, I get all peeved with this crap because of my EX friend. The last baby was the last straw then she went and got pregnant again (and had an abortion) ugh... just f*cking tie your tubes you idiot. She KNEW she didnt want more children 3 pregnancies (and 1 baby) ago. Give me a fricken break. Its not as hard as you make it out to be. Ill take you. WTF?! Grrrr Get on BC "it makes me sick" I think her getting Krones was the best fricken thing. Now if she has another pregnancy shell most likely die. Natural order I guess. Making sure she has no more children and takes her pill.
Or people like THIS
8 children?! 11 people in a 1 bedroom apartment?! 3 investigations and you still have children and proceed to have more?! 4 of your toddlers test + for COCAINE?! WTF?!
Note: Gymnastics 430 today... :D
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sun child
Did anyone notice the date on the article? It's 10 July, 2001.
Lol - no I didnt - but as I was reading it I was thinking "But Ive heard of this before, its not new!"
I think its pretty crazy really - not really nessesary in the grande scheme of things.
I dont like animal experimentation but the mention of human experimentation in this area worries me too.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yekhefah
It is a sad, sad day in America when people see no difference between legal rights and moral rights, and when people automatically assume that everyone wants the government to legislate his or her opinions.
Hell, fukkking yes! go yek!
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yekhefah
It is a sad, sad day in America when people see no difference between legal rights and moral rights, and when people automatically assume that everyone wants the government to legislate his or her opinions.
I don't make that assumption about you, but to be fair, the term "right" usually applies to something political when force comes into question. For morals we usually say something along the lines of "moral obligation", "moral imperative", etc.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
And who used the word "force"?
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Nobody dude relax.
I'm just offering some alternatives to the ideas of population control, which involve removing some bad laws in existence today to change the incentives.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
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Originally Posted by
AudreyLeigh
Im going to guess babies werent made...
LOL i was going to mention something like that too . 2001 is still in the millenium anyway...
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TigersMilk
You mean I can make my own army now for the apocalypse when the earth has finally had enough?:alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :wizard:
Yea really we should be working on making more food to feed the people we already have here. Its kind of a waste of money to develop something like this when HIV has exploded over the last few decades.
i think they already have the cure for HIV. if you have the money, you can buy the cure. if you don't, too bad for you. money talks shit walks!
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
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Originally Posted by
LadySoft
i think they already have the cure for HIV. if you have the money, you can buy the cure. if you don't, too bad for you. money talks shit walks!
As far as I know, there is no cure yet. It can be put into remission, but requires taking many drugs for life and those have side-effects. I'll think of it as a cure when it actually kills off the virus and leaves the human being healthy and free of it, no need for further drugs.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Im sure the cure has been found but how much money is going to be lost to doctors, etc if it is there. Take a pill and youre cured. Too many politics involved for that whole conversation....
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AudreyLeigh
Im sure the cure has been found but how much money is going to be lost to doctors, etc if it is there. Take a pill and youre cured. Too many politics involved for that whole conversation....
Several cures, but yes way too many politics involved!
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
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Originally Posted by
xdamage
As far as I know, there is no cure yet. It can be put into remission, but requires taking many drugs for life and those have side-effects. I'll think of it as a cure when it actually kills off the virus and leaves the human being healthy and free of it, no need for further drugs.
of course they aren't gonna tell you theres a cure, but there is a cure and only money can buy it.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
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Originally Posted by
Sh0t
We are not overpopulated, calm your nerves Malthus.
We have too much GOVERNMENT, but not too many people. The US, for example, is very sparsely populated.
We could easily produce enough food to feed 20billion people without a sweat, but government regulations ensure that food costs way more than it should. And it is the poor of course who suffer most from this.
Really? I thought that the planet will max out at 10 billion with the law of diminishing returns coming into play (the planet will be too tired to continue to produce at the rate so many humans need it to). We would be like locusts eating everything and eventually the earth would just quit producing.
It is theorized that humans caused the extinction of the Mammoths through consumption. We humans ate more mammoths than they could reproduce, hence, no more mammoths. The same is happening to our oceans, right now. We are running out of fish.
I'm with Yek on this one. This is a waste of time. There are millions of children that need homes, we don't have to produce half million dollar "designer" babies.
The whole idea is repulsive to me. Why not work on the problem facing human exsistence right now: Global warming, lack of drinking water (The Aussies should know this better than most!), aids, cancer and the list goes on and on.
I guess I agree with you, Sh0t, but for different reasons;).
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Sorry, I don't believe in the conspiracy theories like there is a cure to AIDS. I think this starts with people who really don't have the slightest clue how Viruses act at the cellular level. If they did, they would understand why a cure has been hard to find. But they don't, so instead of acknowledging their complete ignorance of the topic, they stroke their own egos, tell themselves they are smart, and make up a conspiracy theory. Problem is, their ego strokes makes them sleep well at night, and still does absolutely nothing to really solve the problem of how to kill the virus without killing the host. For that they'd need to get up out of their armchairs, and spend a decade or more in school to truly contribute. Too much work, it's easier to stroke one's own ego from the armchair.
X
p.s. and if you believe in a conspiracy theory, at least point us all at the cure and the details so we can have the option of bouncing it off of someone who might really be able to tell us if it could cure the Virus without killing the host. At least then we have a shot at evaluating the truth of it. Without even that it's nothing but hot air.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
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Originally Posted by Paris
*some text*
You tend to get the population that is optimum for a given economic circumstance, over time. We may very well have killed off the mammoth, but so what? There weren't six billion humans then, for sure, and we do well with that number now. It depends on what the economic can support. Technologically, we can handle many more times our number. The problem is politics.
Humans are hardly locusts eating the environment away. We are a small slice of nature. We used to produce more food when literal horse-power was our transportation. In 1912, 70% of the farmland in the US was used to grow horsefeed.
Waste of time? Not if you are two lesbians wanting a biological offspring. To them it might be a tremendously beneficial technology.
The problem with over-consumption of anything is not so much a scientific problem as it is an economic one. The oceans are being over-consumed because there are no property rights in the ocean, it is essentially one gigantic tragedy of the commons. If we were to establish property rights in the oceans, people would have incentives to "re-fish" and "re-whale" the animals. We see this same mechanism when we compare forests under "public" ownership versus private ownership.
Same goes for those kids really, put in the proper economic incentives and they will be taken care of, as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdamage
Sorry, I don't believe in the conspiracy theories like there is a cure to AIDS. I think this starts with people who really don't have the slightest clue how Viruses act at the cellular level.
Peter Duesberg, the foremost retro-virologist, understands how viruses act and he insists HIV cannot cause AIDS, nor any disease that is a threat to humans.
I do not think there is a hidden cure waiting to be revealed. I think the definition of the disease itself is wrong. A passenger virus is being blamed for what is essentially caused by certain recreational drug usage and the actual drugs used in AIDS TREATMENT.
If a healthy person took AZT or the protease inhibitor cocktails, he will die. And it will look just like AIDS. This is why AZT never entered the market as a cancer drug as it was intended to be in the 60s. It was killing people faster than the cancers it was supposed to attack.
The Noble Prize winning bio-chemist who invented one of the HIV tests says HIV does not cause AIDS(Kary Mullins). He has been to school as you suggest and won the Noble Prize based on his invention of a process to detect HIV.
Those two are hardly armchair theorists. One is the leader in the very field of viruses to which HIV belongs. The other is a NOBLE PRIZE WINNING CHEMIST WHO WON THE PRIZE BASED ON HIS CREATION OF AN HIV TEST.
I've linked stuff before. The AIDS thing won't last too much longer. Maybe 10 years. Once 15%of the people or so understand this, the game is up. Just like with scurvy and pellagra, the orthodoxy has momentum with bad ideas even when the real truth is known.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Well it puts a new meaning on family.
Really "Who's the daddy"? This is great! But bad for men. Once this is proven to have many sucessful rates. Men value will lessen, and pretty soon we become like the amazon women.
I guess this will be a threat to all men. They will have to become better people. Better lovers, get penis implants for the 2 inch man. I guess now they will be force to prove thier man hood. Since they not our only way of caring on the human race. I guess now they will be force to keep thier bodys hot for us. I guess now the will have respect for women. How much it takes to keep thier bodys all nice hot. First the dildo know we can get pregnant without them!
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
it's no threat to men. it's expensive, full of potential risk, and completely artificial. you can make a baby inna vat (test tube child) right now-- it certainly hasn't ended sexual intercourse, much less sexual reproduction and pregnancy.
it's just something weird for rich lesbians to do, possibly. if it produces viable pregnancies that then grow up into problem-free children (or at least with no health issues due to the process of creating them). and that's information nobody has, since the procedure is an experimental theory at best.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xdamage
Sorry, I don't believe in the conspiracy theories like there is a cure to AIDS. I think this starts with people who really don't have the slightest clue how Viruses act at the cellular level. If they did, they would understand why a cure has been hard to find. But they don't, so instead of acknowledging their complete ignorance of the topic, they stroke their own egos, tell themselves they are smart, and make up a conspiracy theory. Problem is, their ego strokes makes them sleep well at night, and still does absolutely nothing to really solve the problem of how to kill the virus without killing the host. For that they'd need to get up out of their armchairs, and spend a decade or more in school to truly contribute. Too much work, it's easier to stroke one's own ego from the armchair.
X
p.s. and if you believe in a conspiracy theory, at least point us all at the cure and the details so we can have the option of bouncing it off of someone who might really be able to tell us if it could cure the Virus without killing the host. At least then we have a shot at evaluating the truth of it. Without even that it's nothing but hot air.
I can tell you a secret. You cant tell anyone, there is a cure. Why let people know when drug companies makes so much money off of drugs. When you have to keep taking med to stay alive! They have meds that keep the virius from spreading and going to the next stage. They have meds to keep a pregnant woman from giving it to her infant. It cost a arm and two legs. Really do they want you to have a cure, they are getting dirt rich off aids patients. Remember when magic had HIV. Now all of sudden he never had it! You can get the cure but not in the states. The guy who said to have made the cure will not give his secret to the US. His patient have to come see him only to get the meds. The US will not let him pratice here in the states. You know it very sad to say, drug make there money off of people being sick. Those who are dirt rich,and have connection you have access to certain things like a cure.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miabella
it's no threat to men. it's expensive, full of potential risk, and completely artificial. you can make a baby inna vat (test tube child) right now-- it certainly hasn't ended sexual intercourse, much less sexual reproduction and pregnancy.
it's just something weird for rich lesbians to do, possibly. if it produces viable pregnancies that then grow up into problem-free children (or at least with no health issues due to the process of creating them). and that's information nobody has, since the procedure is an experimental theory at best.
You know fertility clinic was not common, and too expensive for the average person. They come with certain risk. Now there are more fertility clinics. The prices are no longer for the rich. I think this procedure will attract those who want the perfect child. Later on in the future become affordable to the average middle class person. You know the rich get to experiment on stuff first before we can afford it!
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sh0t
Peter Duesberg, the foremost retro-virologist, understands how viruses act and he insists HIV cannot cause AIDS, nor any disease that is a threat to humans.
I've read his ideas, but they do come across as bit too much all or nothing think for me, or at least the conclusion of his lay readers seems so. I think a lot of that hinges on the fact that some people have AIDS, but are negative for the HIV virus. The simple reader conclusion then is HIV does NOT cause AIDS! But that conclusion is based on big assumption that HIV is the only possible trigger for AIDs, and that conclusion is a pointless one.
Just because some people have AIDS but not HIV, does not mean HIV does not cause (trigger) AIDs. It just means that AIDS can be triggered by causes other then HIV. So if it turns out there is a high correlation between HIV and later, AIDS, we still want to continue researching and do everything we can to come up with a way to kill the HIV virus. The other triggers may not be contagious so while they remain, they are not being passed on rapidly to/from people.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Honestly, it freaks me out.
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Re: Fertilize Egg Without Sperm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leilanicandy
I can tell you a secret. ...The guy who said to have made the cure will not give his secret to the US. His patient have to come see him only to get the meds. The US will not let him pratice here in the states. ...
I understand the premise behind the conspiracy theory as it's a very common premise use to explain a lot of problems in the world, but still... we have no man, no sample medicine, no nothing but a urban belief that it must be so. And the conspiracy theory is easy for anyone to spin with no more proof then the National Equirer provides.
What we do have on the other hand is knowledge that for the most part we don't have the solutions to killing viruses. Many people still are made sick or die in all parts of the world due to viral infections of all sorts. In some cases we have developed vaccines, which don't directly kill the virus, but encourage your body to build anti-bodies so your own body can fight off the virus and put it into remission. Yet even so, some things like mouths sores (due to a virus) we cannot cure. Plantar warts (due to a virus), we don't cure, but instead we focus on the warts and eventually most people's bodies put the virus into remission. And history shows us Virus' can be deadly, witness the Black Plague that killed 30-75 million depending on estimates. Every year people get Influenza, a mix of variant Virus's that never really die out, but instead go into remission and awaken again in large numbers during certain times of the year. It's further complicated by the fact that Viruses, like us, but to a lesser degree, adapt and change to survive. So one treatment may not work forever.
The problem here is that people really don't get that Virus warfare is a relatively new thing in our history. TV lulls people into believing that there are super geniuses out there with answers to everything, but it just isn't so. Our understanding of Virus' is growing, but we are still very much learning about them (we meaning those in our societies actively working on understanding how Viruses and our bodies work).
p.s. As for Magic... http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=356618
Read it carefully. He is not cured. The virus has been put into it's latent state. Like I said, with drugs it's possible to put the virus into latency (and it's expensive) but it's not "cured" in that you need to keep taking the drugs or the virus will come out of latency, and AIDs can follow after that. And the drugs have side effects.
Of course it would be great if the treatment was cheaper of course, but I have no idea what it costs to produce those drugs. Hopefully any patents on them will expire soon and then more companies will produce them and prices will come down. It's the positive and negative side of our system. The positive side encourages individuals and private companies to spend a lot of effort inventing because they are rewarded with temporary patents. The negative side is that in the mean time many people are dying of AIDS that could be put into remission and if the government changed the patent laws or overrode the patent, the drugs might be made available to more people sooner. But then you get into issues of government interference, and issues of who wants to risks billions researching drugs if the plug will be pulled when they succeed and they can't recoup their expenses (let alone make profits)? Still, no conspiracy theory is needed.