Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
Ok. The last two months have been kind of a nightmare in dealing with this horrible rental agency. My roomate and I wanted to break our lease because two and a half weeks after moving into our apartment, we were harrassed/ stalked by a couple of guys. Then we were broken into and robbed.
The property manager said that 'never happened', even though the cops said it really did. They promised this building to be drug free and secure, neither of which were true. They didn't even offer condolences for our robbery. So. We requested to break the lease, since the police never managed to catch the guys, and we were feeling unsafe living there.
They said "sure, you can break the lease. If you find someone to sublet." Not what we meant. I was thinking more along the lines of a fine? But even with the police report, no dice.
Fine. We advertised for a new tenant, found one, and we promised that once CLV group approved the application, they'd reassign the place. (ie- we'd be in the clear).
Well now. Things have not gone so well. The following has happened, subsequently:
---They never answer the phone, and it takes about three days for them to return calls. My roomate sent an email complaining about our inability to reach the office in order to get ahold of lease applications, and we got a very nasty email shot back at us instantly.
-- They claimed we didn't pay rent when we did. So they threatened to evict us. My roomate had to go to the office with a bank copy of the rent cheque they cashed, and a copy of the eviction notice. She then dropped off the application we got (which they charged us $110 to process.) The office secretary apologized for the mix-up
---But that night we got an email stating that they would not accept personal cheques with the application, the applicants needed more ID, and they would 'certainly not process our application until they got the rent money'. Hah.
---My roomate went back to the agent with more ID from the applicants, a cash deposit, and again told them we paid our rent (re- BANK STATEMENTS). They told her they could not accept cash deposits. She said 'we gave you a cash deposit'. The secretary denied they EVER accepted cash deposits, when we most ABSOLUTELY gave them cash. So roomate went down the street to Money Mart to get a money order.
---That was last Thursday. Yesterday we get an email informing us the applicants need a 'strong guarantor', so we go to give them an application for a guarantor. Now, we're supicious about that, seeing as though our credit check was approved, and we're not millionaires. (I didn't work much last year, and her job is just over minimum wage, part time). The rent on this place is LOW. I start to wonder if I can request to do my own credit check...
---Then today we get another email informing us that 'they have held this application since Nov 13', and unless they get the guarantor application by tomorrow, they will tell the people to come pick up their deposit. We were informed that they needed a guarantor YESTERDAY.
---Also, when we signed the lease initially, they promised us an Ipod. A little thing, but still. We never got the bloody iPod, which was advertised as a signing bonus.
They also refuse to credit our last month's rent, even if we get an approved tenant. For no apparent reason, since there is nothing in the lease agreement.
Anyway, they've just put us through the ringer, and my roomate's mother (who works for another rental agency) believes they are trying to fuck with us, and have us either hold onto the lease or just be evicted. The above may not sound that bad, but they just never communicate...It's like trying to contact the Wizard of Oz. And there is nothing on their business statement about 'limited time to hold an application'. I mean, they had to process it to let us know about the guarantor...It's just driving us insane.
What to do? Is there anything we *can* do? I hate how they refuse to deal with the applicants, but only us. They also will continue to charge us $110/ per application we try to process. I have a feeling they won't process any of them. These apartments also suck to high heaven...they promised us they'd clean the carpets before we moved in, and they haven't. They promised they'd clean out the storage locker, and no. We told them about the plumbing problems/ fire detector problems, and they don't care.
Ugh.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
Yes, definitely get a lawyer.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
It definitely helps to consult a lawyer. I did, when having a problem with my property management company. We didn't even have to go to court: they gave us the most amazing loophole ever. We were told to handwrite a letter in chicken scratch, requesting the owner's address. The management company just thought it was trash and threw it out. Because they did not respond to us within two weeks, our lease became null and void.
Of course, this was in the U.S. But a lawyer might be able to tell you something equally tricky and helpful.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
After all that you're ASKING if you need a lawyer?
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
You don't really need a lawyer in Ontario. Contact the Ontario Rental Housing Tribunal. It's designed to be cheap and easy, and the guys arbitrating aren't lawyers either. You need a T2 form. http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/Forms/STEL02_111308.html
There are instructions and stuff. If you need to there will be a legal clinic run run the local law school that will represent you.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
I guess the question is, do you think you're going to be sued if you move out without doing anything about the lease?
methinks not if this is the way they choose to go about punishing you.
However, mail certify what you can and move the fuck out. You probably shouldn't use the place as a reference, but even if you do, the fact that you have copies of the police report (I'm assuming you do) would justify breaking the lease, plus all this other stuff, to any prospective rental person.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
That sucks, bad. They are being awful.
When is your current lease until?
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
And how much money is to be paid if you just break the agreement , one month's rent and the deposit? And how can management argue with a police report showing the place was broken into and pilfered. I'm almost of a mind to believe that the managment people are the thieves.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
^^Oh no, if we break the agreement, they'll sue us. They told us that. They'll sue us for the remaining eight months or whatever on the lease. Our lease is until August 2008 (we literally got broken into within three weeks of signing the lease).
So either we cough up $9000 or thereabouts, or I dunno. They evict us and ruin our credit.
They don't care we got broken into. They don't argue that we did, they just don't care. It's no reason to break the lease, apparently. I guess 'guaranteed secure' building is just empty words? I don't know.
So yeah. Thanks for weighing in, everybody. I'll fill out that T2 form, Jenny. Thanks. We did call them when this all began, but they kept putting us on hold for over an hour. We'll drop the form off in person though.
I think I'm going to ask my dad to go there and 'talk' to them too. Not threatening in words, but just ask what's going on. He's 6'5", and looks like Hitler. These people just treat us like trash. I want them to take us seriously. Grrr.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
Since Jenny is probably better-acquainted with Canadian real estate/ rental laws than us Americans, try that. However, I think you should simultaneously locate a lawyer who specializes in this kind of thing... any lawyer worth beans will offer a free consultation (or that's what my Dad always said, and he's a lawyer). As Stella For Stars said, A lawyer should be able to tell you, based on the information you provide, if there are any easy escapes from your situation. He/she might also be able to tell you if the rental agency has behaved in such a way that would nullify any sort of lawsuit they'd try to slap you with.
Something kind of similar happened to me. I was living in a bungalow owned by some guy. I had never signed a lease or anything. When I decided to move out, he decided that wasn't cool, even though I gave him 30 days' notice and found a replacement tenant. He said that I should pay him some extra money, and he also threatened to sue me, though I never understood why. It got to the point where I was afraid to answer the phone because he'd call from 3 or 4 different lines (so I never knew if it was him) and scream at me about lawsuits. Finally, I asked my dad WTF was up with the guy. My dad laughed, and told me to tell the guy that I knew he had no grounds for a lawsuit, but if he continued to verbally harass me, I'd be able to sue him. That shut him up pretty fast. I never heard from him again.
My point is this: people will often try to take you for a ride when they think you don't know your rights. People are frequently greedy, and losing a guaranteed source of income (as your landlords will be when you move out) can bring out the worst in people. That doesn't mean you shouldn't move out-- far from it, I think you should run-- but I'm saying, your landlords' greased-eel tactics are not inexplicable. So, you learn your rights, and you argue back with the same self-righteousness and vitriol they've displayed toward you.
Oh, and don't pay them any more money until you've spoken to a lawyer or the Rental Tribunal. I don't know your local laws, but it sounds like they're making illegitimate requests.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
It's extremely cheap, easy and if all you want is to leave, any arbitration is likely to come out in your favour - so they will probably let you go in exchange for dropping the grievance.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
I'm no lawyer, but if you're not safe where you are, and can prove it (and you can- gather more evidence!) I feel like even if they did sue you for breaking the lease, you'd win. Especially with proof that you tried to make it easy on them.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
So, to update...
The applicants got their guarantor application in on time. And this morning I got an email informing us that they have been denied. With a guarantor. For a cheap-ass apartment that we were approved for no problem. We are so furious. This makes so little sense, I can't even tell you.
The thing is, on that T2 form, I can't see anything that really applies to us except for the part about 'harrassing with or interfering with'. That is what I feel is happening, except I worry that this cannot be proven. I am afraid that if we have a hearing and we lose that they will tear us to pieces. My roomate's boyfriend and mom think we should just get evicted, but that would ruin our credit.
I guess what I'm asking is, given what I've written, does it seem like we are reasonably being harrassed/ interfered with? It really seems like this one agent has a personal vendetta against us, for whatever reason. Have we got anything to lose by filing an application with the Ontario board/ seeing a lawyer? We're trying our damnednest to get out of this as easily as possible, and it's just not happening.
Also, can we request the applicants' information, and that of the guarantor, in order to run our own independent credit check? Because I'm sure their credit, with a guarantor, cannot be worse than our own. I mean, they already live in an apartment with comparable rent, in the same neighbourhood. If I do that, then I believe we can at least offer some kind of proof about how much they're fucking with us.
Sorry guys. This is just so defeating. I'm afraid to tell my parents because they keep blaming me for this crap.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
Okay, first - a lease is not intended to be an indentureship. To get out of the lease all you have to do is give notice and help them recoup their losses - they can't unreasonably deny you. That is, they can't use criteria that they don't use on all tenants to tie you to your lease.
Let me look through some other forms - I think if you filled out the circumstances - that you feel the apartment was unsafe, it was rented to you under the premise and you've been broken into, there is a police report and stuff - yes, it is worth it. And I think that harassment/interference would count if they are arbitrarily applying criteria to tie you to the lease. The cost of finding a new tenant is around about $200. Just give them the cash instead. If you fill out the Tenant's Rights form be very clear that you want to move out, and you want to pay rent until the date you move out (and no later) and that you want to pay a fixed amount - say $200 for the cost of finding a new tenant. So essentially what you want is for all parties to conform to the Act. Oh, and demand the $110 back for their screw up.
Okay - I googled the Board. Here is a handy brochure. http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/Key_Info...02_111862.html. Note especially the Application to the Board to end the tenancy. I would start with the harassment - just because they are likely to cave and then you don't actually have to do anything. I mean, there is a record of landlords who harass their tenants, and all that, whereas the application to end the tenancy, they have less to lose. Here is the N9 form they refer to: http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/graphics/stel02_111572.pdf
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
Thanks Jenny. The cost of asking them to find a new tenant is $250, but they said they would not advertise the apartment if we did that. They would only show it to people who inquired through their website. Seeing as though there are several identical apartments as ours in the building that have been vacant for months, I don't think they'll find a new tenant anytime soon. And they made it clear that we'd still be responsble for rent until they found a new tenant. Just a feeling I get by the way this woman is treating us, I don't think she'd really rent the place out to someone else on her own. We're going to fill out the form with all the info we have, and then bring it in person to the board next week. It can't be worse than getting evicted. This has been going on since September, and we haven't lived there since the robbery because we feel quite unsafe (based on what the police told us, we were not reassured.)
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
Like I said - start with the T2 form. It will go before the board or before an arbitrator, and you will likely get your way. Because what are they going to say? "We're a rental agency, and renting out apartments is a very onerous burden to us"? It won't happen. They just fuck with you as a matter of course. When you give the rental agency your copy of the application - make sure you give another copy to the building owners, or the superiors of the people your are dealing with. And put on the cover sheet: "Copied to:" It works - they'll want rid of you.
BTW - it's not entirely true. They are required to attempt to mitigate their losses.
Re: Should I call a lawyer? Psychotic rental agency
Woohoo!! I did what Jenny said, and it went down exactly as she predicted. It's all over and it didn't cost us a cent! Such a relief.
Thanks so much, Jenny. Seriously, you rule.