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How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
I found the thread entitled "Do you believe in God?" very interesting reading, so I thought I would post this question. I've been asking how to believe in god all my life.
(If it isn't obvious) I am atheist. I have been my entire life. I used to call myself protestant when I was younger, but that is more like a kid saying he/she is a republican. I didn't really know what it meant to be a protestant. I was just repeating what my parents taught me to say.
So my question is this: How do you know God exists? Is it a feeling, something that happened (like a miracle), a vision, do you hear the voice of god or is it something else?
Why do I ask? Because I've never experienced a single thing that demonstrated to me that God exists. Everything that has ever happened in my life can be explained as a natural occurrence or a man made occurrence. I've never witnessed a miracle (okay, that show with Chris Angel is pretty close;)) and have never been convinced that events in the lives of loved ones was truly miraculous (the fact that a medication cured a family member doesn't strictly fall into the miracle category). I've never heard the voice of god, either in my head or externally, and I've only had supernatural experiences while under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. hehe.
So, what am I missing?
I heard that saying, "That's why it's called faith" ,enough times that I know that is certainly not all there is to a belief in God. I have "faith" that when the light changes from green to red that the cars will stop, but not so much that I don't double check that the cars have indeed stopped before I cross an intersection.
At the same time I can't deny that billions of people believe, with every fiber of their being, that God (in one form or another) does indeed exists.
Frequently I've wondered if there is something wrong with me that I cannot identify a deity in the universe...Or something right?
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Everyone is going to have a different answer for you, but this is my story:
When my dad died 6 years ago, I wasn't sure how we were going to make it through. My mom was retired, I was in college, and I still had 2 kid sisters living at home. The kids were 8 and 14 - old enough to know what happened, but not old enough to have to deal with the grueling behind the scenes things (bitching at the life insurance company, making funeral arrangements, dealing with the crazy side of the family looking for money, etc.). My mom was a mostly non-functional wreck. That left a large bulk of the responsibility to me. Long story short, I spent months being The Rock. I did everything at home, was still going to school full time, and still working 2 jobs.
Not once did I cry in front of my family. I still haven't. But alone, at night... well, I was a wreck. I didn't eat. I didn't sleep. I sat up all night watching infomercials, smoking cigarettes, and drinking Mountain Dew. I was a mess. For the months it took to sort through everything, I was a total zombie. There were points where I didn't think I could keep going.
Then one night, I just had an epiphany. All of a sudden, things were just clear. Of course I was still sad, but I felt like my dad was there with me, holding my hand and telling me that everything was going to be ok. I went to church the next day and felt peace for the first time in a long time. I don't know what it was, as I'd never really felt totally comfortable in church before, but it made me feel like I was close to my dad again. I spoke to God and told him everything I had been feeling, and the burden just started to lift.
Even now, when I start to feel overwhelmed by everything in my life, I speak to God and things feel better. Maybe it's just easier to put the burden on someone else - after all, we're told that our lives are as He has planned for us. Whatever the reason, believing in God has given me something to turn to during the hardest moments in my life since.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
That's my question, too, Paris.
Even more specifically, how does a feeling give evidence of God? What's the link between a feeling, and an omnipotent Creator? I can think about my mother's death and feel sad because she's gone, or think about her and feel happy because of what she meant for me. Same event but different feelings, depending entirely on my thoughts and inclinations. The feelings only tell me what's going on in my own head, nothing more.
I'm an atheist, so I suspect I'll have very little to contribute to this thread beyond questions. But I'll definitely be reading and learning.
Thanks, Paris for starting it.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Lady Jade, that is a beautiful story. I've never had those kinds of feeling before. When I ask others these kinds of questions, they describe the same kind of emotional closeness to God.
Maybe we are born either being able to feel the presence of God or not. Maybe atheism is like being color blind. Most people can see color, but a few are born without the ability to do so.
Thanks for sharing your story.:)
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
I don't follow any religion very closely. I know bits and pieces of bits and pieces of Christianity, but only because of my grandmother. My mom told me when I was younger and I was in the hospital going through a procedure to treat my Leukemia, that she started to walk in the hospital room and heard me talking to someone, but I was alone in the room. She walked in and asked me who and I described the person. She said the description I gave matched every description and every picture she's seen of who is said to be "God". Was it? I don't know. I don't remember because I was around 4 years old. Could it have been? Possibly. Is that what saved me a young grave? Maybe...but I give about 85% of that credit to medical science and amazing doctors. I believe in a higher being, and have respect for that being. I don't believe in organized religion.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lunarobverse
I can think about my mother's death and feel sad because she's gone, or think about her and feel happy because of what she meant for me. Same event but different feelings, depending entirely on my thoughts and inclinations. The feelings only tell me what's going on in my own head, nothing more.
That's not exactly what it feels like for me. I do have sadness because my dad is gone and I'm happy to have had him in my life... but it's hopefulness that is the best way to describe what believing in God makes me feel. It's like no matter how upset I get, it's never been that crushing depression that I felt at first. Some people may say that I've just moved on, but whatever it is, it's given me the ability to keep going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paris
Lady Jade, that is a beautiful story. I've never had those kinds of feeling before. When I ask others these kinds of questions, they describe the same kind of emotional closeness to God.
Maybe we are born either being able to feel the presence of God or not. Maybe atheism is like being color blind. Most people can see color, but a few are born without the ability to do so.
Thanks for sharing your story.:)
I look at it as being more like... being on a scavanger hunt, without all the crazy pressure. We each go at our own pace to find the clues. Some of us get to the "end" faster than others, but we each eventually find the treasure we're looking for. For some of us, it's God/religion/faith. For others, it's material goods. Either way, I feel like it's part of the plan and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Well, I've always believed in God. I don't know why...I just have. I've witnessed 2 miraculous events in my life...!) the birth of my child, and 2) my near-death experience.
When my son was born there was an energy in the room that was so high, so amazing, it was almost like heaven and earth became one. It was awesome and I was blown away. And my son had a beautiful glow around him when he was placed in my arms for the first time, as babies generally do. I think anyone who has given birth will tell you that despite the pain and the pushing, it is no doubt a miracle. It was just awesome.
When I had my near-death experience, my spirit buzzed out of my body and floated up near the ceiling. I was conscious of the fact I was dead, and I felt very little concern about my physical body, which remained on the bed below. I was an energy, and it was peaceful and I had no worries. Beyond my window was a dark void, and when I approached it I sensed that if I went into the void/tunnel thing, I would progress further into my death. I recoiled and thought "Whoa!! I am NOT ready for that yet!" And as soon as I had that thought, my spirit slammed back into my body and I awoke with a jolt. After returning to my physical body, I saw a bright light. It didn't hurt to look at it. I realized it was the light of God. The light, who loved me unconditionally and made me feel at peace, spoke to me. It was like spirit-to-spirit communication...a transfer of thoughts with no room for misinterpretation. God informed me of the truth about my life, what is to come in the future (future looks awesome, provided that I continue to love and respect life) and my purpose in life was revealed to me. God was aware of my sins but He was happy that I turned my life around and chose to respect life. (And yes, He was fine with me being a stripper LOL!)It was awesome and profound and I cherish the memory. Mind you I was not on any drugs or alcohol whatsoever (I'm a clean-living gal) and it was not something that was "all in my head". It was very real.
Since then, I go to church a lot more often. I just hang out inside, by myself, and pray. I also meditate. I find that I am much more intuitive than before ( I am to use my intuition to help others). I see my life with a new set of eyes. And I am no longer afraid to die.
So that's my why I believe in God story.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Paris...The universe IS your deity. Reality, existence is what you believe in. This is all fine until you have the thought "what am I missing?", or "is there something wrong with me?". Without those thoughts you are just Paris, at peace, and contented. What would you gain by believing in something else?
I think you're fine Paris.
hb
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
I wonder the same thing Paris... even after reading the stories which I find lovely I still do not "get it". Ive never called myself atheist. I do not/can not believe that after given life that death is just nothing. I guess I have to believe there is something else, something more. That this life is just a small thing in a bigger scheme of things. What that bigger scheme is I do not know and I guess will not know until I pass....
(sorry if this sounds stupid, ive been drinking)
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paris
Frequently I've wondered if there is something wrong with me that I cannot identify a deity in the universe...Or something right?
There is nothing "wrong" with you Paris. I think sometimes it is difficult for people to believe, so they lose faith, which makes it more difficult to believe.
The there are those who have faith, experience something, then they have even more faith.
Don't judge yourself on it though. You are where you need to be, and it's all good.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
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Originally Posted by
AudreyLeigh
I wonder the same thing Paris... even after reading the stories which I find lovely I still do not "get it". Ive never called myself atheist. I do not/can not believe that after given life that death is just nothing. I guess I have to believe there is something else, something more. That this life is just a small thing in a bigger scheme of things. What that bigger scheme is I do not know and I guess will not know until I pass....
(sorry if this sounds stupid, ive been drinking)
It doesn't sound stupid at all. And you're right...you won't know until it's time to pass.
In my experience, there was life after death. The light was awesome. It made me feel good to see it, as it felt like a "preview" of my afterlife to come.
However, after reading about other people's NDEs, I realized that, while my death had much in common with others' deaths, everyone's death is very special and personal. Some reports were positive, some were negative...some were just weird. But let's put it this way...I'm not afraid to die.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
God is the one who calls, not you (in a general sense).
atheists often demand God appear at their whim, like a vegas magic show or something.
but the thing is, there is *some* proof, as humans reckon such things. the history of the biblical canon and of extant biblical manuscripts is simply fascinating. there is always some proof. Jesus walked around on this earth, and did actual miracles in front of thousands of eyewitnesses.
and even then, people still stood around and said 'meh, that dude totally isn't the Christ. all that stuff is parlor tricks'.
at the end of the day, either you can hear God's call at some point in your life and you can be saved, or you cannot.
faith is a forest, with lots of brambles known as 'denominational disputes' and 'false doctrines' and the ever-present 'sinful will'. i am not surprised many find God's voice hard to hear. it can be very still and small, sometimes.
those whose reject God, who are dead in sin, have some strange comfort, though-- this world, here and now, is their Heaven. if you think Christianity is boring or stupid or lame or 'not the right path' or 'one of the right paths out of many', then you really are in Heaven right now, and this is the best you'll ever get. you have to find happiness alone, with all your shortcomings and flaws and limitations of mind and body.
God surpasses understanding. you don't 'get' God. you don't comprehend the infinite being. the most brilliant human knows nothing in comparison. for many this is a problem. they think that a three pound brain should be able to understand an infinity of existences, an unending stream of knowledge.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
The best thing on earth is Vagina. I worship Vagina. Vagina always deserves to have a capitol V. I worship Vagina because i am always and forever in pursuit of it.
Vagina<God.
When was the last time God HELPED me get Vagina? God's followers are all lock-legged, put a chastity belt on them (Well the true believers at least ;))
I know that something greater than me exists, it created me and i'm searching my head off to find it again asap. Vagina.
V for Vagina (Remember, remember)...
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
this is probably blasphemous, but to me God is the collective subconscious of humanity. I'm not religious, yet I believe in God and I do believe in prayer.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
I've just always sensed that there is some form of higher being; after all, creation is way too complex and perfect to have just happened by accident. Something had to be guiding evolution, designing physics, and putting it all together.
But I too had an experience. I met my ex-husband when I was 17, so I had never been really alone. When I was in Australia, he left to go back to the States and I had to stay in Oz for six more months to finish my degree. I spent the first few weeks on my first solo road trip (it was a semester break), just driving around the country by myself. I wound up in Tasmania, one of the most beautiful and remote places on earth.
On my first morning there, I hiked at dawn up Cradle Mountain, and sat on a rock overlooking Dove Lake to watch the rest of the sunrise. This is where it was:
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=74869&rendTypeId=4
I had been nervous and panicky, terrified of my solitude, afraid to speak to people, distraught over where my life was going. But I sat on that huge rock and watched the lake, which was glassy and perfectly still, and there was no sound. No leaves rustling, no birds, just vast and profound quiet. There's something in the Bible that refers to the presence of G-d as "a still, small voice" and that's sort of what spoke to me - no one actually spoke in the sense we understand it, but I got the sensation of a warm and loving embrace, and I knew in a moment that I was going to be all right. I suddenly understood that I was strong and capable, and I was a match for anything life threw at me, and I could be alone if I needed to be but I didn't need to be afraid of companionship either.
When the embrace sensation lifted, so did all my fear and stress. I haven't been afraid of death since that morning, because I know it will come when it's time and not a minute sooner. I haven't stressed about things I can't change since then, either. I know there is a higher plan and everything will work out the way it's supposed to.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
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Originally Posted by
LoveSexMoney
this is probably blasphemous, but to me God is the collective subconscious of humanity. I'm not religious, yet I believe in God and I do believe in prayer.
you're a univeralist. it's a form of paganism.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
I am really enjoying reading everyone's personal accounts of their interactions with God. It is giving me insight to what sensing God is all about.
Miabella, I found your post very interesting. Just to be clear, I'm not looking for proof of God. I'm sure if a spirit talked to me and insisted that God exists, I'd chock it up to an anurisim or stroke or something and head to the nearest emergency room for an MRI.:D
You had also said "God is the one who calls." I take that to mean that god might not believe in me either? Or maybe all atheists are under the divine radar. Maybe god can't sense me either. I'd find it very humorous if upon entering the afterlife, both god and myself are surprised that the other exists. Hehe.
I guess what I'm asking is to have music explained to a deaf person:-\. If you can't hear, it is hard to imagine what others are listening to.
I don't fear death. Of course, I wish to avoid death for a while longer yet, but the idea of dying seems interesting to me. I'll embrace it when I'm ready.
As far as a destiny...That concept I'm very uncomfortable with. I embrace random chance. That means that anything is possible. The idea that I'm merely a character in some grand story defies my sense of reality. What's the point in doing anything if there is no such thing as random chance? So I must deny the existence of destiny if I'm ever going to get something accomplished. Otherwise I'll plunk down on my couch, like Harold Krick in the movie "stranger than fiction", and wait for destiny to catch up with me. Somehow, I think I'd end up dying while I'm waiting for my destiny. LOL!
Yek, you've convinced me! I'm going to Australia. I may not get any closer to sensing god than I am now, but I totally want to hike up Cradle Mountain. It looks a lot like Sedona, Az.
Madcap, I was a high priestess at the church of Vagina. I had many loyal parishioners, and they tithed generously (well, most of the time).;)
I love reading the stories and accounts here. I've been very moved by peoples spiritual experiences.
Thank you all!
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yekhefah
I've just always sensed that there is some form of higher being; after all, creation is way too complex and perfect to have just happened by accident. Something had to be guiding evolution, designing physics, and putting it all together.
Physics is natural law applied to the physical Universe, like mathematics is natural logic applied to the intellect, a way for us to model the physical world and our observations of it. It was not manufactured; it was there before anything else was. Well before any intelligence existed in the Universe, physics was doing its wonderful thing. The harder thing to come to grips with is the source of the "big bang," since nothing existed before that, not even time. No one yet has any other explanation for "big bang"; I don't think anyone is trying to figure it out. Did 'God' cause it (and thus everything else) because if so, 'God' also gave us the intelligence to understand it. But who can tell that, outside of our own interpretations of our experiences - unless you have faith in someone else's interpretations.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LoveSexMoney
this is probably blasphemous, but to me God is the collective subconscious of humanity. I'm not religious, yet I believe in God and I do believe in prayer.
It isn't blasphemous; it's 'mysticism.' It's also Jungian. :)
I've interpreted this for years, as meaning that something either inside or outside all of us produces a sort of commonality in some inner parts of our minds. Is this 'God', and is it inside all of us or some external force/spirit, or is this universally inside and external to us? Conventional religions are composed of 'organizer' people, who must have something 'tangible' to believe in, even though no one can ever 'see' it. So they produced the concept 'God' having some sort of human-like manifestation - in reverse since 'God' was there first and 'created' us. I believe that people who 'experience 'God' are actually experiencing the highly unusual connection with some inner, almost spiritual side of our own personalities. Those who cannot connect with this spirit/force are split off from thyemselves and humanity, to varying degrees. Sorry if this is hard to follow; it (my type of mysticism) is difficult to explain.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
threlayer
Physics is natural law applied to the physical Universe, like mathematics is natural logic applied to the intellect, a way for us to model the physical world and our observations of it. It was not manufactured; it was there before anything else was. Well before any intelligence existed in the Universe, physics was doing its wonderful thing. The harder thing to come to grips with is the source of the "big bang," since nothing existed before that, not even time. No one yet has any other explanation for "big bang"; I don't think anyone is trying to figure it out. Did 'God' cause it (and thus everything else) because if so, 'God' also gave us the intelligence to understand it. But who can tell that, outside of our own interpretations of our experiences - unless you have faith in someone else's interpretations.
from what i understand, the big bang concept was conceived by a Christian, to offer a scientific background for ex nihilo creation.
Christians really love science. ;)
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lady Jade
Everyone is going to have a different answer for you, but this is my story:
When my dad died 6 years ago, I wasn't sure how we were going to make it through. My mom was retired, I was in college, and I still had 2 kid sisters living at home. The kids were 8 and 14 - old enough to know what happened, but not old enough to have to deal with the grueling behind the scenes things (bitching at the life insurance company, making funeral arrangements, dealing with the crazy side of the family looking for money, etc.). My mom was a mostly non-functional wreck. That left a large bulk of the responsibility to me. Long story short, I spent months being The Rock. I did everything at home, was still going to school full time, and still working 2 jobs.
Not once did I cry in front of my family. I still haven't. But alone, at night... well, I was a wreck. I didn't eat. I didn't sleep. I sat up all night watching infomercials, smoking cigarettes, and drinking Mountain Dew. I was a mess. For the months it took to sort through everything, I was a total zombie. There were points where I didn't think I could keep going.
Then one night, I just had an epiphany. All of a sudden, things were just clear. Of course I was still sad, but I felt like my dad was there with me, holding my hand and telling me that everything was going to be ok. I went to church the next day and felt peace for the first time in a long time. I don't know what it was, as I'd never really felt totally comfortable in church before, but it made me feel like I was close to my dad again. I spoke to God and told him everything I had been feeling, and the burden just started to lift.
Even now, when I start to feel overwhelmed by everything in my life, I speak to God and things feel better. Maybe it's just easier to put the burden on someone else - after all, we're told that our lives are as He has planned for us. Whatever the reason, believing in God has given me something to turn to during the hardest moments in my life since.
:hug:
You are a strong person.
I believe in God too, because I had a rough childhood, and while things seemed to get worse for some reason, we made it through.
When my grandfather died, I felt that he never left either. When I am at the lowest points in life, I feel he is here... and I know he is.
I dont need scientific evidence to prove to *myself* that there is a God.
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
It all seems to come down to feelings, from what I can see. And I don't deny the power behind feelings, impressions, emotions, beliefs, intuitions, and the like. After all, they all are coming from the most intimate place; our own skulls.
But I also know that feelings often lead to wrong conclusions, and they're wildly dependent on circumstances and our past experiences.
I know that I, and others, have been dead certain of something, based on a feeling - and turned out to be incorrect after all the facts have come out.
What's the connection between a feeling, and the existence of God, considering the potential for error?
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lunarobverse
What's the connection between a feeling, and the existence of God, considering the potential for error?
We can take that one down all the way to it's philosophical core. Maybe nothing (matter, energy, light or anything else for that matter) exists at all, only thought and emotion.:meditate:
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Re: How do you believe in God? re: do you believe in God thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paris
We can take that one down all the way to it's philosophical core. Maybe nothing (matter, energy, light or anything else for that matter) exists at all, only thought and emotion.:meditate:
If nothing exists at all, then nothingness is awfully consistent, predictable, and amenable to finding general patterns, rules and laws of nature... :)