Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
If you plsn to stay in state, esp. in California, the ranking of the school will not matter as much unless you are in a field like Biology, Physics, Engineering. Grad school is where I think the ranking/dept matters the most. If you plan on pursuing further graduate studies, you may want to look at a university which is on the same 'level' as the grad school you wish to apply for, especially if you may want to keep your options open for out-of-state schools. I attended a top UC and I'm sure it helped to get me into my top, well-regarded private east coast university for graduate work.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
Never been to Diddy? I don't believe it. Now that I've talked it up, you probably won't be that impressed.
But back on topic, Cal Poly is big and impersonal too. At bigger state schools you really have to work hard to make yourself known to your professors, and to create a community.
OMG I just looked up Pomona College:
Tuition $ 33,635
Fees 297
Room and Board 11,748
Books 900
Personal Expenses 1,000
Total $47,580
are you kidding? That's insane.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
Oh another tidbit of advice.... if you do decide to go to the smaller less well known school be prepared to deal with nay sayers.
I've had people tell me I could hang my degree on my windshield to get handicapped parking.
I've had people tell me that since I went my college I was mildly retarded.
I've had people tell me my degree was only good for wiping my ass.
Mean people suck. If you can roll with the punches you'll do great.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
The advantages of attending a college with a national reputation may not be immediately apparent. But they are truly overwhelming.
By far the most important advantage is that you are studying under people with an international reputation. The people who advise the White House, appear on CNN and have directed national policy for much of the last century. Even in the scientific disciplines, which applies in your case, you have a MUCH better chance of studying under a professor with a national or international track record at a private or top 20 school than you do with somebody at a larger state institution. They may be at that institution, but you will never actually see them.
In an exclusive private institution, all of your peers are brilliant. There are no slackers; they get washed out in the first three weeks of whatever -- pre-law, pre-med or in my case, Russian where the classes are taught IN Russian, even though it's a first-year course. Same with physics. They have no mercy at all. Georgetown had a 40% failure rate in Russian, and these are people with top 5% SATs and top 1% class rankings.
You will learn more from your peers, and over your lifetime gain more advantage from those relationships, than anything else. I grew up as exceedingly poor white trash in a small town in Arizona. If I stayed there, I would probably be selling real estate to big rollers from the East Coast, hoping to make my next mortgage payment. Instead, I got the hell out of there when I was 18, flew to Washington, D.C., took on more debt than I'd ever seen in my life, and was granted dozens of partial scholarships. My parents gave me absolutely nothing. There were weeks where I did not eat for several days. But I was fortunate enough to bond with very important people -- the current Librarian of Congress, who I used to team-interpret scholarly conferences with. The architect of all US foreign policy toward the former Soviet Union in the 20th Century -- the late George Kennan. And I had lunch with Gloria Steinem most Fridays up on the second floor of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, where I interned. You were not only studying history, you were actually participating in it.
My first job out of college was as head technical linguist on the US-USSR Direct Communications Link -- also known as the Hot Line, or "red telephone" on the president's desk (it's not, and never has been, a red telephone. That's all Hollywood). I got my first Top Secret security clearance during that period, something that is not easy to do. So when your first job out of college lands you right in the West Wing, it tends to validate all the sacrifices, long hours, lack of sleep and enormous debt you take on.
In your particular case, you should really try to go back to Berkeley. Why you turned down an opportunity like that is a little puzzling. The Claremont Consortium colleges are also very good.
Although it's true that your graduate program is more important than your undergrad, your chance of getting into an excellent grad program is largely determined by the prestige and rank of your undergrad school as well as your grades and performance there. I was offered opportunities to study at the Sorbonne in France strictly based on my relationship with scholars in Washington. I would have never, ever had that opportunity in 95% of the colleges in the U.S.
Let me emphasize one point if I've not yet been clear enough. These programs are absolutely brutal. I was a student at St. Petersburg State University in Russia, and they took.... wait for it...exactly 35 students from the entire United States (from about 500 applications) through a series of written and oral exams and in-person interviews. If you were not the very best, they had no use for you.
The reason I bring this up is to emphasize that it's really all up to you. If you enroll in a top school, you really need to be able to perform there. If you can do that, then the opportunities open to you are really amazing. I understand that you like to take the non-traditional route, but any PhD program, even in physical therapy, is going to smile on the more traditional routes. There is enormous competition for PhD slots in scientific and technical areas with a strong commercial demand.
There are a million opportunities to talk yourself out of going to the top-tier colleges. They are too expensive, too much debt, a good education is available elsewhere, etc. But smart people are, well, smart. Not stupid. They do not throw away tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars if they don't believe that there is some comparative advantage to attending these schools. There are.
If you have any doubt about this, and you truly want to complete a PhD program in any discipline, look up the educational backgrounds of the faculty at the major universities you want to attend. The vast majority of successful faculty at major US institutions did not get their PhDs at Arizona State or Northern Arizona University. The ivy league, the top private universities, the boutique universities and the specialty schools are overwhelmingly, lopsidedly represented. And for a very good reason.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
^ all of the above, of course, assuming you are seeking GREAT WEALTH AND POWER!!
I've actually made a point of noting the schools that influential people in my field attended, Canadian, American and New Zealander (those are the only places where I have a concept of school rankings), and undergrad schools really seem not to matter. Lots of podunks represented. Check it out in your field, to get an idea.
Graduate schools and PhD schools of course matter much more, mainly because of the funding you can get and the equipment available. But, your question was about undergrad schools.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
^ No, it's not restricted to people who are strictly seeking "great wealth and power." The same holds true of people who wish to pursue careers in the scientific disciplines, which is my other area of specialty, and the same as the OP's, which is why I mentioned it.
Most scientists toil away in absolute obscurity. But you can easily trace back the academic history of the most successful ones and they correlate well with universities that specialize in their field. The "podunks" are not well-represented in the undergraduate records of students who are successful in entering the graduate programs of the top universities in their disciplines.
I recognize that the situation in Canada may be markedly different.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
I am somewhat kicking myself for not attending Berkeley. I didn't think UCLA trailed it by far in the rankings but I suppose I made a hasty decision because I was very disappointed in UCLA. I live in LA, I had a relationship here and at the time I was interested in a major that seemed to have a better department at LA (ancient near eastern civilizations and their languages). My biggest mistake however came right after high school when I chose to go the community college route instead of apply for the ivies. I graduated high school early and only discovered that this was feasible a semester before I did- so I was without time to apply for a real college the following year. I know my chances to transfer into one now are very, very slim. They hardly admit any transfers. I don't doubt at all that I could have got into at least one after hs. I'm sure UCLA would still allow me into an Ivies grad school, I know its been done plenty of times, but I was really disappointed that this was the cream of the crop (or so I thought) and that that they pride themselves on a low admissions rate. (I'm sorry I sound a little snotty and full of contempt).
I'd really been looking forward to college my entire life. In my freshman year of high school I traveled by myself to Oxford to take a class during the summer and was hooked. I dreamed of going back. It was so vastly different from life at home. I'm the first in my family to go to college and never really realized what a different world it was until this point.
Every time I became frustrated in high school I was always told "It will get better in college." Once I hit college and realized not everyone else was in the same boat I became frustrated and slightly depressed. I couldn't hold a discussion in section with anyone. Again, I was told by several "It will get better in grad school." After a while I did start to wonder if I really needed college to succeed. As sad as it is I've come to realize its not so much the learning but the paper that matters. These past 3 months have been a huge turning point in my life and I feel a huge weight on my shoulders to make decisions that will have a lasting impact.
I am somewhat thankful that I had my community college experience to find out what I enjoyed most. I was able to dabble here and there, work full time, and drop classes when I found out the teacher was an imbecile. I held some amazing jobs, dabbled in stripping and featuring, and matured even more (if I was an old soul before I'm positively geriatric now). I changed my mind about what I wanted to major in almost daily. First it was international relations, then it was ancient languages, biochemistry, and finally neuroscience and nutrition.
I don't think its too late to attend Berkeley. Luckily for in-state tuition I can afford it. Unfortunately, their neuroscience major is only at the graduate level but I can still get my undergraduate in physiology and nutrition. The Doctor of Physical Therapy is actually not a PhD but rather called a DPT and is much like medical school except three years. I would probably try for a PhD in biokineseology because I'd want to be the best at what I did.
Excuse me, I think its time for me to head for the drunk thread at this moment :)
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yekhefah http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/ima...s/viewpost.gif
Go where you're happy and where there's a program you like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/ima...s/viewpost.gif
It depends on what you want to do.
Yep. People (non-islanders, usually) used to talk shit about my University in Hawaii all the time, but I never listened to them. I knew I either wanted to Major in Marine Biology, Oceanography, or The Travel Management Industry. Plus, I was happy where I was... that's all that mattered to me. I never finished my degree, because I had to leave Hawaii, and I am planning retirement right now... but if I ever do decide to go back to school, I already know where I'm going.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmazingKat
I think sticking with a state school for my undergrad and then going for a decent name for grad school will help.
Good thinking. ;D That is a solid plan.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
^ word. Do what makes you enjoy school. It all falls into place once you've got that. :)
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sophia_Starina
Meh... never assumed you were a silver spooner. I was just bitching about the whole situation in general.
My bad. With all the drunk posts I made yesterday one was bound to stink. Sorry.
I actually didn't mean cronyism via Stanford though in the post you were responding to. I got my current job because the bassist in my high school band dated one of the partners' daughters. That was completely unclear from my post on the matter though. Doh!
Anyway going to a top school is awesome and at the same time anyone who looks down on a less prestigious school or feels there is not brilliance or opportunity at such places is an ignorant elitist ass.
EDIT Also OP sounds like you have your head on straight and if so you'll probably excel regardless of where you go. Good plan with the schools. And good plan with the drunk thread!
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmazingKat
Does where you went to college really make that big of a difference in the long run? Say 5 years or even 20 years from now? Do you think not choosing a more well known school over a smaller local public college has hurt in any way?
Depends on what you want to do with yourself and other issues. Sure, as time goes by and your resume builds up with work experiences, where you went to school matters less, but if you are say trying to get a specific job at a specific research spot, and it's down to you and another person with say equal work experience. They got their degree at Harvard and yours is from say X Community College (as just an example), who do you think will get the position? It can matter in the real world, but it also depends on what you plan to do with yourself. In some circles it can matter.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
I don't know, what I think matters is the reputation of the school. Just b/c there's a big well known university does not make it good. If there's a smaller school that deals with your specific concentration and has a good reputation among professionals, than it could be better in the long run as far as hands-on training is concerned.
It can work both ways, my brother goes to Harvard, and I know plenty of people in his class who are going for medical degrees or business degrees, and they couldn't care less. You know, partying all the time, slacking off in class, not going to class at all. I also know people who graduated from those schools who don't just land jobs b/c of where they went. There are ivy-leaguers who are unemployed right out of college. I personally know some. I also have a friend that went to one of the best graduate schools in her field, graduated top of her class and couldn't get into her med program to save her life. Space was so limited. She got put on a waiting list, eventually got in, and she has a horrible job in her field making only $35K right now.
It mostly depends on your drive to succeed. Some people have it, others don't.
Talk to several industry professionals, get their feedback, do research. Do what will make you happy.
Oh, the only other advice I could give is this: It's not what you know, it's who you know. Network like crazy, with people from all different schools, but in your field, as well as with indisutry professionals. Network network network.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
I have to agree with TOO here, to a certain extent. All other things being equal, the more prestigious schools offer connections and opportunities not afforded at non-elite schools, even if the education isn't necessarily better.
That said, despite my best efforts, I'll never use either of my degrees and I'll be paying on those loans for the next 17 years.
Re: Does where you went to college really matter?
I seem to remember some study claimed there was no correlation with which college someone attended and income in later life.
The difference was if you applied for an ivy league school you had a higher income. Getting accepted or rejected did not make a difference, just the fact you applied made your income higher. But on the personal side did know someone who got a very good job right out of college because of a college friend and met some girls who were far more attracted to ivy league students, so thats something. Among my peer group from high school I would assume those that got specialized medical degrees are making more than those that went to ivy league schools and didn't get a particular professional degree.
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/edu/pd110199f.html