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weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
(snip)"In September of 2007, the city of Windsor, which borders the United States, officially asked for financial assistance from Ottawa to deal with American refugees flooding into Canada. This is proving to be the tip of the iceberg, and only the first wave of economic refugees that have been created in the United States.
There are now tent cities being built outside most large metropolitan areas, one of the largest of which is in Los Angeles. The following report from the BBC highlights the consequence of the US subprime meltdown and the fears that the crisis is growing.
The homelessness situation has grown so rapidly in the United States that certain cities are issuing color-coded wristbands – blue for those who can stay, “orange for people who need to provide more documentation, and white for those who must leave.” Refugees will no longer be able to stay in one area, meaning that many towns and cities will now have to be prepared to receive migrant refugees displaced by local governments from other districts and States.
Canadians will also need to be prepared for this influx, especially considering that the average processing time for a refugee claim in Canada is currently 14.2 months, “a period during which the applicant is eligible for financial and other support. A failed claimant then also has the right to seek leave to appeal his or her rejection to federal court.” If the American refugee crisis continues to grow as analysts predict, then the cost to Canadians will be astronomical. "(snip)
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
What?? What city is issuing wrist bands?? How could that even work?? This just sounds ridiculous...
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
^^^ from
(snip)"Large, often confused, crowds formed ragged lines behind police barricades where officers handed out color-coded wristbands. Blue meant they were from Ontario [California - sic] and could remain. Orange indicated they had to provide more proof to avoid ejection, and white meant they had a week to leave.
Many who had taken shelter at the camp -- which had grown from 20 to more than 400 residents in nine months -- lacked paperwork, bills or birth certificates proving they were once Ontario residents.
"When my husband gets out of jail he can bring my marriage certificate; will that count?" asked one tearful woman.
Another resident, clearly confused, seemed relieved to get a white band -- not understanding it meant she had to leave.
Pattie Barnes, 47, who had her motor home towed away last week, shook with anger.
"They are tagging us because we are homeless," she said, staring at her orange wristband. "It feels like a concentration camp."
Ontario officials, citing health and safety issues, say it is necessary to thin out Tent City. The move to dramatically reduce the population curtails an experiment begun last year to provide a city-approved camp where homeless people would not be harassed.
Land that includes tents, toilets and water had been set aside near Ontario International Airport for the homeless. Officials intended to limit the camp and its amenities to local homeless people, but did little to enforce that as the site rapidly expanded, attracting people from as far away as Florida.
"We have to be sensitive, and we will give people time to locate documents," said Brent Schultz, the city's housing and neighborhood revitalization director. "But we have always said this was for Ontario's homeless and not the region's homeless. We can't take care of the whole area."
Officials believe the local homeless number about 140, less than half of those currently in residence. Schultz wants to reduce Tent City to 170 people in a regulated, fenced-off area rather than the sprawling open-air campsite it has become.
No other city has offered to take in any of the homeless who Ontario officials say must leave."(snip)
Arguably, the driving force behind this is the massive loss of tax revenues for California cities. In Ontario's case, much of the tax revenue reduction was due to falling home prices thus falling property tax collections, with additional reductions in business taxes coming from vastly reduced profitability for Ontario's agricultural industries ( which were hit with a double whammy of an increased minimum wage plus heightened enforcement of illegal alien employment). Hundreds of homeless people residing in the city translates into hundreds of social welfare checks / MediCal bills etc., with part of those costs falling on already hard pressed county and city budgets. Therefore the county and city have a strong financial incentive to 'pursuade' as many homeless residents as possible to move into some other county or city so that THEIR taxpayers will have to foot the bill instead.
The news story points out that some of the 'homeless' people currently residing in Ontario, California actually come from as far away as Florida. Arguably, the reason that some 'homeless' people are drawn long distances is a combination of California's nice weather, combined with California's generous social welfare and MediCal benefits. However, as the news story also points out, California cities do have the authority to force non-locals to 'move on down the road'.
Circling back to the original topic, Canada's generous social welfare and national health care benefits provide a similar attractive force for 'homeless' Americans. This is made even more attractive by the international asylum treaties, which makes it far more difficult for Canadians to force American 'refugees' to leave Canada (and stop collecting social welfare and national health care benefits paid for by Canadian citizens !). Under present circumstances, if a 'homeless' American can get to Canada and 'plant' himself, he is virtually assured of at least a year's worth of residence (and benefits).
This is a bit off topic, but the US federal gov't may have been preparing to handle a very large number of 'homeless' people as well ...
(snip)"BERKELEY, Calif.--A Halliburton subsidiary has just received a $385 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security to provide "temporary detention and processing capabilities."
The contract -- announced Jan. 24 by the engineering and construction firm KBR -- calls for preparing for "an emergency influx of immigrants, or to support the rapid development of new programs" in the event of other emergencies, such as "a natural disaster." The release offered no details about where Halliburton was to build these facilities, or when."(snip)
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
You know Melonie, we really don't consider people applying for refugee status at one of our shared border sites to be legitimate refugees. People generally don't flee torture and political persecution from the US. And the reality is that more people tend to want to get into the US than Canada, as the US is generally regarded as the Holy Grail, where the streets are paved with gold and whatnot.
People are looked at on a case by case basis, but both our Countries are considered "safe" countries. We have an agreement with your Country to handle "refugee" claims from each other: Safe Country
We're not really quaking in our boots, worried about hordes of homeless Californians rushing the border and draining our treasury. Well maybe during the 2 weeks of summer we get in July. :D
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
^^^ well then, just out of curiosity, why did the city of Windsor, Ontario, have to go crying to Ottawa for special 'federal' tax money appropriations to help defray the city's rising costs ?
(snip)""When there is a possibility of adding thousands to the local social assistance system as a result of refugee claimants crossing the border into Windsor, we will become overwhelmed and our current resources will not suffice," Francis wrote in a letter sent Wednesday to Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
Over the past three weeks, 45 families and 31 individuals -- approximately 200 people -- entered Canada at the Detroit River crossings and applied in Windsor for shelter and social assistance after filing refugee claims with the Canada Border Services Agency. Municipal agencies dealing with the sudden influx of mainly Mexican refugee applicants are renting out hotel rooms and bracing for predicted thousands more to come.
"We don't have the means, ability or capacity to deal with this additional cost. We are not able to deal with this potential crisis locally," Francis wrote Harper.
"I don't believe that Windsor's residents and taxpayers should have to foot the bill for U.S. immigration policy," Francis told The Star. He was referring to the suspected source of the problem -- a recently begun crackdown on illegal immigrants in economically struggling regions of the U.S. South.
With the bulk of the latest arrivals being long-time Mexican illegals dislodged from their homes and workplaces in southwestern Florida, fingers are being pointed at unscrupulous outfits charging money and then directing desperate individuals and their families toward the Windsor border crossing.
"We are aware of these operations -- they have been advertising incorrect and false information," said Marina Wilson, a spokeswoman for Citizenship and Immigration Canada. Wilson said Canadian immigration authorities have started contacting the Mexican and Haitian communities in Florida, as well as local media there, to get the word out that nothing has changed in Canadian refugee policy.
"The fact someone wants to come here for better economic opportunity or a better quality of life ... that's no basis for a successful refugee claim," said Immigration Refugee Board (IRB) spokesman Charles Hawkins.
But a group operating out of Naples, Fla., vowed to continue sending the so-called economic refugees to Windsor.
"They ask, 'Is Canada an option?' and I say, 'Yes, it is an option,'" Jacques Sinjuste of the Jerusalem Haitian Community Center said in a phone interview Wednesday. For a US$300 "donation" (most of those interviewed in Windsor claim they paid US$400), JHCC staff download forms off the Internet, help applicants fill them out and give directions on how to get to the Canadian border."(snip)
(snip)"To be successful, refugee claimants must prove they are fleeing persecution at home, something most of the Mexicans arriving in Windsor would be hard-pressed to do. The IRB's Hawkins said there was only a 13 per cent acceptance rate of refugee claims filed by Mexican nationals during the first six months of the year, compared to an overall rate of 47 per cent.
But the average processing time for a refugee claim in Canada is currently 14.2 months, said Hawkins, a period during which the applicant is eligible for financial and other support. A failed claimant then also has the right to seek leave to appeal his or her rejection to federal court"(snip)
(snip)""This is a problem the U.S. has allowed to create. It's really unfair for Canada to have to face this," said MP Joe Comartin (NDP -- Windsor-Tecumseh), his Party's public safety and national security critic.
"This is very much being driven by (the U.S. Department of) Homeland Security," he said, predicting that, "with few exceptions," most of these "economic claimants" will eventually be sent back."(snip)
the biggest question, of course, is 'will eventually be sent back ... where ? To Mexico City ? After all, these former illegal residents of America are not American citizens, so America will certainly NOT allow them to be sent back into the USA.
the second biggest question, of course, is how long is 'eventually'. As things previously stood, an 'American refugee' crossing into Canada and filing for refugee status + social benefits + public housing could expect to receive those social benefits plus public housing provided at Canadian taxpayer expense for at least 14 months while their refugee claim was being processed by the Canadian gov't. However, if the number of 'American refugees' doubles or triples or quadruples, those 14 months might turn into 28 months or 42 months !
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We're not really quaking in our boots, worried about hordes of homeless Californians rushing the border and draining our treasury. Well maybe during the 2 weeks of summer we get in July
in the immortal words of Master Yoda ... 'you will be, you WILL be'
Consider some interesting facts. Canada's population is somewhere around 32 million people. America has somewhere around 12 million illegal alien residents, with some 10 million of those being Mexicans. If US Homeland Security is successful in dislodging 50% of current Mexican illegal aliens through revved up enforcement efforts (plus our tanking economy killing off their primary meal ticket, construction work ), and if even 10% of those dislodged Mexican illegal aliens decide to cross the Canadian border and file for 'economic refugee' status, that would still amount to 1/2 million additional people for 32 million Canadians to feed / clothe / shelter / educate / incarcerate.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
The term "Hooverville" comes to mind reading these articles. Maybe a good modern name for these tent cities would be something like "Bush RV resort and campground".
It is going to be a long road to 01-20-09.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
Well Melonie, you know, we'll probably muddle our way through this little blip like we do everything else. There'll be more immigration officers hired, more money spread around for housing. I suppose some high-level talks will take place. We'll likely do some smart things and some stupid things...kinda like your country does.
I think we could use more people up here. Especially hard working need-a-chance people. If you guys are going to be having this kind of a serious problem, with people running away from your country, then we'll have to do our part to help out.
Whatever happens, I'm not the slightest bit worried. What good would that do? ;)
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hockeybobby
We're not really quaking in our boots, worried about hordes of homeless Californians rushing the border and draining our treasury.
I have to agree with hb. Will we, as Canadians, be on the hook for expenses due to housing, medicare, legal costs, and even deportation? Most assuredly, yes. Is it fair that taxpayers take on the financial burden? Probably not. But it's something we accept as Canadians with our open door policy. It's very much like a company that accepts the fact a portion of their customer base will turn out to become bad debt accounts as a cost of doing business.
We are already seeing the effects of baby boomers retiring with labor shortages across the country. There are benefits to approaching these "refugees" as a potential source of new workers.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
Um. Well. Outside of any other issue that a refugee from the United States might have, and better financial opportunities are not viable refugee claims... Canada has an agreement with the United States called "safe third countries". That means that people cannot arrive from the United States - even if they are just passing through, much less have lived there - and claim refugee status in Canada or vice versa. This is... what you would call a "mistake" and "misinformation".
The "financial and other support" isn't that good. Trust me - people do not feel encouraged to stay on it, will take whatever temporary work is available and unless there is an error in the decision, most of them will not be granted an appeal. The average refugee claim is a little more complicated than just being flat out wrong and prohibited on multiple levels, both national and international; It may involve complex and hard to determine facts; it may involve time for investigation of claims of torture or persecution, the path the person took into the country, and administrative reviews, none of which will be necessary based on these claims (I suppose someone could claim they were being sent to Guantanamo) which are ineligible as a matter of law. I would be surprised if claims such as these took over a year to dispose of.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
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Will we, as Canadians, be on the hook for expenses due to housing, medicare, legal costs, and even deportation? Most assuredly, yes. Is it fair that taxpayers take on the financial burden? Probably not. But it's something we accept as Canadians with our open door policy. It's very much like a company that accepts the fact a portion of their customer base will turn out to become bad debt accounts as a cost of doing business.
We are already seeing the effects of baby boomers retiring with labor shortages across the country. There are benefits to approaching these "refugees" as a potential source of new workers.
I suppose you'll have to wait and see how all of this altruism works out a couple of years down the road, when these illegal aliens become a significant fraction of Canada's workforce ... at about 1/3rd to 1/2 of the 'going' pay rate for legal Canadian workers. At least the labor cost savings will make Canada's export industries internationally competitive again !
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
I sitll find this whole thing ridiculous... A person who came to American illegally and then goes to Canada because they think things will be better economically is not a American refugee... In most cases, these people doing that is not a bad thing.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
I suppose you'll have to wait and see how all of this altruism works out a couple of years down the road, when these illegal aliens become a significant fraction of Canada's workforce ... at about 1/3rd to 1/2 of the 'going' pay rate for legal Canadian workers. At least the labor cost savings will make Canada's export industries internationally competitive again !
We have minimum wages here, just like you do there. And really, having these people there in your country hasn't exactly dragged you guys down, in any way that I can see. Yer a friggin superpower yanno? Like numero uno. I mean, they are not some sort of pestilence.
When we want to take advantage of super cheap labour, we do it the tried and true way...build a plant in China. It's free enterprise...right? Right.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
^^^
We also have fairly strong anti-discrimination laws.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
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And really, having these people there in your country hasn't exactly dragged you guys down, in any way that I can see. Yer a friggin superpower yanno? Like numero uno. I mean, they are not some sort of pestilence.
While I'll avoid any reference to 'pestilence', unfortunately there is a ton of evidence that illegal aliens in America have indeed dragged down the US economy in many important ways.
(snip)"Balance of Taxes and Benefits
On average, low-skill households received $32,138 per household in immediate government benefits and services in FY 2004, including direct benefits, means-tested benefits, education, and popula*tion-based services. Total benefits rose to $43,084 if public goods and the cost of interest and other financial obliga*tions are added.
By contrast, low-skill households paid only $9,689 in taxes. Thus, low-skill households received at least three dollars in benefits and services for each dollar in taxes paid. If the costs of public goods and past financial obligations are added, the ratio rises to four to one."
Strikingly, as Chart 4 shows, low-skill households in FY 2004 had average earnings of $20,564 per household; thus, the average cost of government benefits and services received by these households not only exceeded the taxes paid by these households, but substan*tially exceeded the average earned income of these households.
Net Annual Fiscal Deficit
The net fiscal deficit of a household equals the cost of benefits and services received minus taxes paid. As Chart 5 shows, if the costs of direct and means-tested benefits, education, and population-based services alone were counted, the average low-skill household had a fis*cal deficit of $22,449 (expenditures of $32,138 minus $9,689 in taxes). The net fiscal deficit of the average low-skill household actually exceeded the household's earnings. If interest and other financial obligations relating to past government activities were added as well, the average deficit per household rose to $27,301." (snip) from
I can only conclude that, given Canada's generous social welfare benefits, the cost differential falling on 'middle class' Canadian taxpayers to support a large influx of low skill immigrants will be even larger than the costs experienced in the US. But even if you go with my previous scenario of 32 million Canadians = 8 million taxpaying Canadian households carrying a new $22,500 per year cost of supporting 1/2 million new low skill Mexican immigrants, that's $1400 per Canadian houshold in additional tax burden (or additional national debt).
If, as is more likely, a significant portion of the costs of supporting 1/2 million new low skill Mexican immigrants falls to Canadian taxpayers at a local level i.e. Canadian taxpayers living in Windsor, Toronto, Montreal and other cities near the US border where the Mexican immigrants are likely to stay while their 'economic refugee' claims are being processed, then the additional tax burden falling to Canadian families living in these cities could very well be $2,800 or $4,200 per year instead of the national average $1,400. This has certainly been the case in America, where California / Florida / New York / New Jersey / Arizona taxpayers shoulder a far higher tax burden than say Montana or Kansas or West Virginia taxpayers, due at least in part to the fact that a far higher number of (illegal) immigrants have chosen to reside in those states, with associated increases in state and local costs for MedicAid, education, social services, law enforcement, incarceration etc.
There is also a plethora of financial data showing that the after-tax disposable incomes of 'middle class' Americans has been stagnant at best and falling at worst for the past few years. The primary reasons for this are an absence of pay raises (which is leveraged to the downside by the availability of cheap (illegal) immigrant labor, and the existance of significant increases in state and local taxes (which are at least partly motivated by the rising gov't costs of providing social welfare benefits and other gov't services to low skill low income (illegal) immigrants. So far, Canada has not faced a similar situation, but there is no reason to believe that an influx of low skill immigrants into Canada will result in a different outcome than it did in America.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
^^The major difference is that Canada legalizes their immigrants, where as in the US we do not. There is a path to citizenship in Canada even if the person got there by less than official means. That is not the case here. Once illegal (in the US) always illegal. There is no other means to become a legally participating part of this society.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
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Originally Posted by
Paris
^^The major difference is that Canada legalizes their immigrants, where as in the US we do not. There is a path to citizenship in Canada even if the person got there by less than official means. That is not the case here. Once illegal (in the US) always illegal. There is no other means to become a legally participating part of this society.
Except joining the military... and don't people sometimes get green cards AFTER they get here, especially if they're younger?
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
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and don't people sometimes get green cards AFTER they get here, especially if they're younger
this usually stems from getting here legally via a H1B visa, which by definition means that the person has advanced skills and a relatively good job, thus is paying more in taxes than they are consuming in gov't benefits.
this also stems from marrying an American citizen.
this does NOT happen for someone with a low skill level who is residing in the USA illegally as the result of a visitor's visa overstay, and who is consuming far more in gov't benefits than they are contributing in tax revenue (if any) !
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There is no other means to become a legally participating part of this society
actually, yes there is. It's called filing your application while still residing in your home country, and WAITING for approval before moving to the USA ! Frankly, the cavalier manner in which illegal immigrants are treated / rationalized / excused if their 'crime' does a tremendous dis-service to other legal immigrants who have made the effort to follow proper procedures and exhibited the patience to wait their turn.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
H-1B doesn't mean they have advanced skills.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
^^^ technically true, but in general US employers make maximum use of their available H1-B visa 'quota' to bring in highly skilled foreigners ... which maximizes the employer's labor cost savings versus the going US pay rate for doctors / engineers / etc. It makes no sense whatsoever for a US employer to use up an H1-B Visa slot to bring in an unskilled foreigner who must be paid the same US minimum wage as an unskilled American worker.
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Re: weekend commentary - American 'refugees' fleeing to CANADA in large numbers ...
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
actually, yes there is. It's called filing your application while still residing in your home country, and WAITING for approval before moving to the USA ! Frankly, the cavalier manner in which illegal immigrants are treated / rationalized / excused if their 'crime' does a tremendous dis-service to other legal immigrants who have made the effort to follow proper procedures and exhibited the patience to wait their turn.
I meant once a person is deemed illegal. For them, there is no path. This is particularly tragic when the children of illegal immigrants are forced to move to the US, and then discover that the only home they've ever known doesn't want them.