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You may not like this bit of advice, but he'll never marry you...or or if he does, it'll be a forced, unhappy situation.
I'd get out if I were you, if marriage is what you really want. He clearly does not want it.
Ouch. That isn't exactly how'd I'd talk to someone I was going to spend the rest of my life with. Cover your hand in glitter? How rude!
That hurts
However my fiance and I were together for 2 years. He HATED the idea of marriage and said in no way he would EVER get married. He graduated Doctorate school and got a job 4 states away. I decided to follow and after living for a year together something switched. It was Jan. 1st and he said something along the lines of
"Aren't we engaged already?"
me: We are? Ummm... I don't have ring?
him: you get a ring?
me: uh.. yeah
him: oh..you should get one then
me: I guess I need to buy it myself then :/
I bought my own little ring, and sometimes it bothers me, but I think "hell it's just a ring, he buys me so many other great things on a weekly basis. Why obsess over the ring." So it doesn't bother me much anymore.
So to the OP, maybe just wait and see what happens...maybe he'll change with time. Try not to bring it up for awhile. If it's a long time, and he keeps joking, then maybe it's time to move on if marriage means a lot to you.
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Its perfectly ok to know what kind of ring you want.
Look, he's been divorced before so I don't think anyone who has been divorced is going to get married right away again. Also, its been almost 5 years with this guy and without you bringing it up he should WANT to marry you and know it by now if he is going to or not at this point.
His "jokes" are probably a way to lighten the conversation up because it makes him uncomfortable.
He does have issues, and I try to be sympathetic but its confusing because he says he wants to spend the rest of his life with me multiple times a day, and I can see that he means it, but then he's so negative about marriage sometimes. And he says wants to and anticipates marrying me someday, its just this crappy comments inbetween that make me upset.
I'm assuming you're not psychic, and I don't think you could possibly know enough about their relationship to declare that he'll "never" marry her. I do agree, however, that at this moment, he sounds like he doesn't want to do it.
I don't think two years is necessarily all that long, esp. if he's been divorced. If you want to stick it out, I'd say do not bring up marriage again anymore. Maybe if he doesn't feel pressured, he might come to it on his own. And to make sure you're not wasting your time, set yourself a deadline for however long you're willing to stay with him if marriage is not an option. Then when you reach that deadline (be it years from now or months), if he has not brought it up, test the waters again and see where he's at. He might just need time to heal.
On the one hand, you know, marriage is an arrangement and a societal institution, and it's different from love and/or a long-term relationship. It's the promise of eternity. When you realize that things can still go wrong even despite marriage, it loses its luster. That might be where he's coming from.
But on the other hand, as a woman, I wouldn't be with a man who wasn't falling over himself in love with me and making me feel like I was his ultimate fantasy woman. So what matters more than promises or the lack of them is how he feels about you, how he treats you.
Hope this helps.
^ This guy is misreading you so badly that you may want to consider the possibility that he will never marry you. Not because he's against marriage, but because he doesn't truly respect or support you in ways that would sustain a marriage. At least not right now.
Those brush-offs made me cringe. There is truth in humor.
If he's still in shell-shock five years after a divorce, first, he should see a therapist and second recognize that it doesn't give him license to be flippant with his SO's heart.
When you bring up topics so obviously close to your heart and happiness and broadcast them in 50,000-watt neon lights, and he still dismisses you, he either does not understand you at all, or your happiness is not a core concern of his.
While I realize this is a high bar, go check out Yek's "The Awesome Partners Thread" and see how many attributes your boy shares.
I am concerned, honestly, that you are making excuses for him. I totally understand this -- we all do it for people we love -- but the end effect may be blinding you to an important reality.
He's been with her 5 years. After 5 years, if he's making jokes about marrying her before he's 80, I'd say he'll never marry her, or if he does, it'll be a forced situation where she gives him an ultimatum.
After 5 years, you should know if you want to marry someone, and if they've made it clear they want it, you should do it. The fact that he's not doing it, and makes jokes about it, makes it pretty obvious what he wants...the status quo.
I agree that he doesn't want to get married. He might want to stay with you forever, but he doesn't want to commit in that way. Guys KNOW that, at least in the US (prob lots of places), girls want a ring. And that sometimes we are weird about it. If he's poor/against diamonds/whatever, you sort it out, not make snarky comments.
Can you go get couple's counseling and sort out what IS going on with his head?
TOO: Thanks for the link but I've actually posted in that thread about all the amazing things he's done for me. And he truly has gone above and beyond to show how much he cares for me and how committed he is. Its just these small comments that he says that make me upset.
Mr H: Correction, we've been together for about 2.5 years and I'd like to consider marriage more seriously after about 5 years, but he doesn't like the time pressure.
ExoticS: Counseling sounds reasonable, I'll definitely consider it if were still having this issue when I'm really serious about tying the knot.
BrodieL: I never thought I would get married. The idea of wearing a ring to remind yourself not to cheat was so stupid to me. I've Always felt that love was something between to people and the institute of marriage fucked it up. But now I've got this guy who's my best friend, and an amazing partner and now I want this. It's confusing, ya know? So while I hear you logically, and its where I was at only a few years ago, things have changed.
Thanks for the amazing advice everyone! You guys really represent all the voices in my head telling me to consider different perspectives about what this means to me and how to handle it. At least now I know I'm not just being unreasonably emotional...
OK sorry Volupte...but even 2.5 years is long enough, honestly...although that might depend on your age (how old are you?).
If you're over 27, and have been dating someone for 2.5 years, he should know if he wants marriage.
Heh, I'm not 27 yet but I would like to be married by then. But I also have a problem with wanting to plan out the rest of my life right now...
uh. It is pretty clear to me through his choice of words that he doesn't want to marry you.
I made a choice of perspective when i was about 17 years old when i experienced my second real heartbreak. IF SOMEONE DOESN'T WANT ME, I DON'T WANT THEM 100 TIMES MORE! Now it has become mindset to me. I am not interested in men who don't want me, or want to treat me right.
Brodie looked at this in a very considered way, I think, and made some really good points--I think a lot of people did here, so I'm not sure I'm adding much.
The way this guy is brushing off your interest in marriage is telling to me--I don't think I could ever say something like the glitter comment if the conversation was a serious one. This indicates a disregard of what is most important to you, and I think you should consider that seriously. Such things are early warnings when it is easy to get out--it will not be so easy years from now, when you have children. We can rationalize things, as TOO mentioned--we can say that your guy has had bad experiences with marriage or even his childhood memories of marriage, but his behavior, his insensitivity, trumps any worry about his background--especially since we are talking about your future. If a man is truly dealing with issues regarding marriage, and he sees you brooding over this again and again, he HAS to tell you seriously where he's at. To me, he sounds like a guy who does not want to get married anytime soon, but who wants it to be you IN CASE he decides to get married, leaving open the door for another situation to come along. So I would agree with Brodie here: I would drop all talk of marriage and perhaps even opt for a separation, telling your guy honestly where you're at. If he wasn't professing constantly that he wants to spend his life with you, then dodging on the marriage question--if you were only bringing up marriage and he wasn't encouraging it--that would be one thing. But you have a lot of mixed signals going on here.
A lot of men, maybe all men at some point, want an escape hatch ready to get out of a commitment if they are unsure about it. Open the escape hatch wide and tell him he's welcome to go through it--no pressure on your part. Then you will see what this is made of. In the meantime, worrying over what kind of ring you want is putting the cart before the horse--make sure you have a horse.
I wish you luck with this. I know these decisions are always tough, and we rationalize to try and bend the truth our way. Better to face the truth with clear eyes now--whichever way things go: you are young and there will be, unquestionably, other chances for you if this does not go as you want it to. My thoughts are with you--best wishes to you, however it turns out.