For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
Hey there--
I know there's a few similar threads about this, but it's just easier to start my own thread on it.
Long story short: (edit: long story long):
I have a sibling who I was best friends with growing up because we were both alternative, non-alpha type people. We both still are, but I noticed that as she grew older she didn't really grow more responsible. In time I became ashamed of my connection with this person I used to look up to so much, so much so that I really worried that perhaps our similiarities went beyond the positive into the negative.
There was period of time over a year ago when one of our parents needed the help of the entire family. This sibling, over a month long period, did not help at all despite the debilitating health of our parent. She even got in the way and then expected everyone to help her out during the month.
At first I played devil's advocate because everyone was pissed at her. It wasn't until later on when we all added our 10 cents that we realized the enormity of her selfishness. At first, I thought it was because she was mad at our parent for making her move out of the family house and only giving her 30 days notice (there was some friction there.) I thought she would be obviously aware of everyone's anger towards her actions.
The final blow to me cutting her off completely was when she asked me if our other sibling had said anything about being mad. Not about being mad about anything specific. Just asked if she was mad.
This moron sibling of mine wasn't even aware of the shitstorm she raised.
That level of obliviousness was so repugnant to me it was the final straw.
Fast forward several months. It is now November and I am happy as a clam looking forward to coming home for Christmas. While not looking forward to seeing sister B for the first time, but just because I was looking forward to seeing my parents and the rest of my family. Sister A (who had been ENORMOUSLY PISSED BEYOND BELIEF at B's actions before) is now defending her and asking why I'm so mad and why I'm not talking to her.
Uh, kind of obvious but I told her politely that it wasn't her concern and that I was very happy with my life without her in it. She pushes it further to the point that I don't even want to go home for Christmas but do anyway, doing what I could to salvage a shitty situation with small perks for myself (like not staying with the family.)
Things go fine with Sister B. We don't really speak but it's not really a tense situation either. We just pretty much share airspace, do the typical small talk and that's it.
There had been an event that I had wanted to take my mother to for Christmas. Before this whole ragging by Sister A had taken place I had put together a list of Christmas activities we might, as a family, do. Stupidly I put that event on the list thinking that there's 25 other things on the list so it's unlikely that the whole family would want to go, but that if the whole family does-- then it's okay.
What happens?A month later no one chooses ANYTHING on my list but Sister A wants to go to the event with our mother, taking along our other siblings and a few family friends. I had already asked my mother about half a week previously to accompany me to the event as my christmas present to her. Then Sister A asks and my mother (selfish, but she's human) chooses to accompany them to please the most amount of people, or because she wanted to go with all of them instead of just with me.
I swear. Is the dibs system not sacred? I even asked my sister if she could make other plans for any other event because this was something really close to my heart.
but she didn't.
So because she made my life an anxious hell for a month previous to Christmas, and fucked with my present to my mom (I ended up spending a ton of cash on a fuck you gesture taking her by plane to another city for an even bigger event) I'm not talking to her either.
Now-- I don't check my family email that much. It's just not got a lot for me-- my parents can call, and I check it occasionally. So today I'm emptying all the new crap and there's a note from Sister A asking why her whole family (hubby and two kids) aren't a part of my life anymore.
As far as the hubby is concerned--
1. up until last Christmas he didn't even buy christmas presents for me. My sister did.
2. Same with birthday presents. I would spend $40 or more on each of their presents and all I get for mine is a fifteen dollar book with a card from Sister A and the kids. Fuck you Sister A for your cheapness, and as much as I love your hubby for not being a shrewish bitch like you, fuck him too in this instance.
3. he never calls me. Occasionally in the past I would call the house and talk to him a little before talking to Sister A and the kids. I called when his mother died. Never have I gotten an email or a phone call from this guy (and it's been ten years) unless I've asked him to go to lunch.
4. I've never gotten a package from him. I put together a huge care package for him when his mother died, and while I realize that's a big life event, I've never gotten anything from him like that.
So, I really am not all that sorry that your kids (who are under ten) and your hubby aren't a part of my life. I send the kids gifts occasionally, and when I'm home I take them out to eat and to movies. I am not a monster and while I love them, it's just not worth dealing with their bitchy mother to get to them.
I'm not really asking if it's okay if I cut Sister A and Sister B out of my life (and by extension, hubby and the kids though I'd totally talk to them if they made any effort) I'm just gearing up for the assault by the family because I know it's coming.
I just feel it.
So what are some good responses here?
Please realize that part of my character makeup is that I'm pretty mellow. but when you do something that I mark as an inexcusable character trait, such as a betrayal of one's parent when they need one most-- that's it. you're done. game over. you don't get another chance. And sister b, because she was related to me, had several points in our relationship where if we weren't related she would have been dead in the water a dozen times over. this was just the last straw because she was doing something so unforgivable to someone else.
also--
My mother gave me shit during Christmas.
My third sibling gave me a little shit but at least theirs was a well-reasoned discussion of repercussions rather than a full-court pressure attack where they didn't listen to me. they listened, stated their points, and backed off.
My dad was the only one who has not brought this up at all ever because he was the one she did this too. I don't know what he thinks, but I assume his silence is either a respect for my position, or a concurrence of opinion.
I'm glad I wrote that all down-- it's been awhile and I've stopped being angry and I've stopped having bad dreams about being ashamed of being related to Sister B.
I just want some unassailable statements that I can state when various members try to push me on this subject again.
Thanks. I know that was long.
edit: I also feel like I've put a little over six years of effort into my family in terms of keeping in touch. Sister B and I would call each other quite a bit, but mostly I was the one calling my other siblings, the kids, talking to the hubby, and my parents (although there was more of an equal exchange with my parents contact-wise.)
I was the one always traveling down for surprise visits and vacations and holidays. After my parents dropped me off at my first year of college I got one visit from my mom for parent's weekend. My siblings came up for my graduation (my parents were overseas) and my father came out once before heading back overseas after that hellish month with Sister B.
That's all that's occured in six years on their side. Think of all the car trips, gas costs, plane trips, special arrangements I had to make to visit sometimes as often as every two months (and I lived 12 hours away for 2 years, then 5 hours away for 2-3 years.) I missed one Christmas, and I pretty much gave up on Thanksgiving after the first couple of years, but still, that's a lot of freaking travel and money on my part!
and the worst part is, I graduated and my parents weren't there (though I know they wanted to be,) yet a couple years later one of my siblings had a two week OCS military training where they had a graduation afterward and both my parents made it out for that. I know they were in different points in their lives and felt more able to travel, but still-- they still had to travel back to the US and knowing that they did that for a two week program when they didn't for my two YEAR program left me feeling very shitty.
However-- at least with my parents, in growing older, I understand that they make mistakes too and while I'm still mad at my mom for choosing the group for the Christmas event rather than me, I guess I just chalk it up to her evening the scoreboard for my occasional selfish choices.
I'm just done with putting in a bunch of effort. My parents just gave me a bunch of shit because I hadn't really checked my emails for a month and I'm like hello? get a fucking phone card and call me if you're that worried.
agh! -throws up my hands-
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
Yep. I only speak to one family member, my mom. She is re-married, and although I like her husband well enough, we are not close.
I have a new family that suits me much better. A group of friends that are like siblings, aunt/uncle, grandparents etc. My blood family is so dysfunctional, that I doubt there is any saving those relationships at all. I've been estranged from my father since 1994, and my brother and I don't get along at all (and never really have). As far as extended family goes, I know so little about them that they are literally strangers to me.
I'm sure my blood family thinks I'm being selfish or whatever, but I don't care. Those relationships were toxic to me, and my personal well being takes priority over any relationship. There are 6 billion people on the planet, so I'm not really worried about being lonely;).
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
I agree. You're totally right and she's totally wrong but she's closer to home and she is manipulating them. You have no choice but to cut off people like your sister who are toxic to you. Its not your fault.
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
I dont talk to my parents much,extended family not at all unless I happen to see them at a wedding or funeral. We were never close. My ex-brother disowned me when he found out what I do so he ceased to exist to me at that point.
I have hubby and a close small group of friends I love like family and vice versa.People who would lay down their lives for me and me for them. Thats all I need.
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
I am not in contact at all with anyone in my family save for my mother and 2 of my sisters. No need for the negativity in my life. I've suffered enough, I don't need them constantly reopening wounds.
Some people say that blood is thicker than water, but sometimes it just doesn't matter.
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
It's weird because while yes I do remember some really great times with those sisters, on the whole it's not worth dealing with all the same crap that comes up over and over: Sister A's micromanaging bitchiness and Sister B's irresponsible woe-is-me selfishness.
Some people act like I'll get over it, and it's true, I've gotten over much of it, moreso over time, but that doesn't mean that I'll want to reopen that relationship back up again.
Not to say that I don't wish them well. There's been people I've cut off that I totally wish would die and rot in hell. As far as these two are concerned, I hope they have very blessed, happy and fulfilling lives. I sure haven't been the perfect sister, so I don't know if they (mostly Sister A) keep trying to reopen the relationship because they miss the real me or if they just want to appear to be in the right like they're (now) doing everything to be family member when they didn't before.
and yet, as far as the real me is concerned, if they knew me well enough...
I don't know-- I want to say, "they wouldn't have done the things that they did," but perhaps that is just me not knowing them well enough.
eh-- whatever.
I kind of like where I'm at. Not having to constantly keep up with family, having to put in more time and effort with them, having to feel sabotaged, betrayed or disgusted with their actions and just plain being me.
I think I'm going to skip Christmas this year. I've been thinking about it for the past couple of weeks. I'm not going to be beholden to a group that hasn't acted beholden to me.
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
Amazing. I hate to say it but family sucks. My friends are pretty much my family.
I am going through such hard times right now, and have had no help from any of them, I've been told to fuck off pretty much. I'm a loser, the black sheep, blah blah blah. But god forbid if I won the lottery or something how they'd all come crawling. All of a sudden I'd be the greatest person in the world.
It happened when my grandpa died and no one liked him either. All of a sudden when there was a few million at stake....wow the crocodile tears amazed me. He was such a great guy all of a sudden.
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
^ don't get me wrong. we've had our disfunctional points, but for the most part my family has been great. Even the two sisters that I think are heinous stupid bitches have a lot of positive characteristics. It just got to the point where I felt tired of having to deal with all the bad characteristics over and over again (or in Sister B's case, having all of her characteristics cast in high relief after how she treated our parent.)
Loyalty is a huge thing for me, as is getting the same amount of energy back as I put into a relationship.
Sister A and B both showed disloyalty (A to me, B to parent), and Sister A and her hubby have both showed a decided lack of equal (positive) energy towards me.
I know that Sister A's hubby is not the type of person to call me out of the blue, or really at all. He's very old-school, closed emotion type of guy. I get that. I just don't get how when I stop calling Sister A it's MY fault that the hubby and the kids and I don't have a relationship.
I'm not holding it against the kids either-- I'm just saying that at their age I occasionally sent a thank you note that my parents then sent to my extended family. If Sister A isn't encouraging that type of communication with the kids and I, then they're just going to have to settle for my occasional packages.
gee-fucking-eez.
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fancygirl
I think I'm going to skip Christmas this year. I've been thinking about it for the past couple of weeks. I'm not going to be beholden to a group that hasn't acted beholden to me.
Hahaha! I've been on "vacation" every Christmas since 1999. No one really begrudges a person their vacations. Some years I just went out of town to dance. But I was out of town, so that counts, right?
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
You're definitely doing the right thing. Unfortunately the idea of family, that is, your 'blood', means jack shit in the real world, and assholes are still assholes whether they share some of your genes or not.
I no longer talk to about a quarter of my dad's family, but then again they haven't been too keen on trying to contact me either. :-\ Be strong!
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
Take Christmas off, yeah--I did that a couple times to avoid family bullshit that drove me crazy every year and it felt great!
Try not to hold grudges. I know it's not your fault but holding the grudge does take a bit of energy--after you don't care anymore you kind of see it. You might never forget how fucked up they were in one instance or during one month, and you might never put yourself in a position to be susceptible to their pulling anything like it again on you, but just freeing yourself of resentment is, well--freeing.
I'm still pissed off at my dad for some of the things he's done to me over the years, and I know I did something once that merited his scorn (and boy did he show it, lol), but my brother has been gone for years and my mom for a few now, he's all I have left and while I'm not going to take one iota of shit I do still love him. He knows that, and that I won't take the shit, which is great.
I was estranged from my mom just before she died but then thankfully we made up when she got really sick and I went to sit with her while she was dying many nights and she was unconscious but she KNEW I was there, it was proven in a really cool way which I will tell you some other time.
My mom was a kinghell bitch sometimes and I'd tell that to her face if she was here, and she'd probably get in a huge argument with me for saying so, but I'd love to see her to yell at her and maybe cry with her a bit.
Well now I am sidetracking into my own shit, I guess what I mean is fuck all the bullshit (and never take any from them), but once that freedom is established, hopefully you can have some sort of rapport with them after they learn to deal with the fact that you aren' taking any more shit.
A brief withdrawal from the family won't hurt, especially if you go somewhere really cool you always wanted to go for Xmas or whatever. Stand up for yourself, try to forget the grudge factor, spurn any and all attempts at induction of guilt on your part, be pleasant when they decide to be pleasant to you without emotional blackmail.
What else can you do? You can't live your life for your family, not anymore...
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
G-d, I don't even know what to say. It's difficult and I did read the whole story. It seems like your parents aren't on the upandup with the whole graduation thing, either.
I wonder though if maybe there's miscommunication going on in this little game of wires and siblings and if maybe Sister B is the cause of it. It seems weird they got friendly and suddenly she got upset at you and started harassing you with questions right around that time. Maybe the level Sister B would stoop to is lower than you think.
In any case, I think you're right to cut sister B out... but it's difficult with the rest of your family. Cheerist, you're between a rock and a hard place, aren't you?
I'm sorry I can't be helpful. :(
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
I'm not close with my family either. I'm working on my relationship with my mom and it's getting a little better lately. It sounds like your family is taking you for granted. If I were you I would stay away from them until they realize what they have done. If they are not treating you the way family should, you don't owe them anything.
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Djoser
Take Christmas off, yeah--I did that a couple times to avoid family bullshit that drove me crazy every year and it felt great!
Try not to hold grudges. I know it's not your fault but holding the grudge does take a bit of energy--after you don't care anymore you kind of see it. You might never forget how fucked up they were in one instance or during one month, and you might never put yourself in a position to be susceptible to their pulling anything like it again on you, but just freeing yourself of resentment is, well--freeing.
I guess I just see it as cutting ties being freeing. that's why I wish them well- I seriously do. I still get angry at Sister A, but that's also because I've had less time to deal with her bullshit this time around. I had almost a whole year head-start to deal with cutting ties with Sister B.
the only difference here as opposed to cutting ties with other people in my past is that I still have to see them. That's the only thing that could make this a grudge because no matter what, as I grow to care less and less, I'm still going to have to see them, and still going to have to defend my position.
I'd rather not see them ever again, but I'm not going to act like a petulant child (vacation over christmas notwithstanding.)
Perhaps it is a grudge-- but when my anger towards Sister A fades like it has for Sister B then it won't be anymore.
But if you're talking about the slight grudge I have towards my mom for choosing the group over me, or the hurt and perhaps grudge towards my parents for flying home for the two-week program graduation-- yes, I am actively working on letting that go.
Re: For those who have cut themselves off from part but not all of their family
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Djoser
Well now I am sidetracking into my own shit, I guess what I mean is fuck all the bullshit (and never take any from them), but once that freedom is established, hopefully you can have some sort of rapport with them after they learn to deal with the fact that you aren' taking any more shit.
A brief withdrawal from the family won't hurt, especially if you go somewhere really cool you always wanted to go for Xmas or whatever. Stand up for yourself, try to forget the grudge factor, spurn any and all attempts at induction of guilt on your part, be pleasant when they decide to be pleasant to you without emotional blackmail.
What else can you do? You can't live your life for your family, not anymore...
I know what you're saying about family, and second chances and oh, what would happen if they died, how would you feel. The thing is--
when someone proves they have a bad character, for me, that's it.
I've been this way since I was eleven, and there's been several people I've cut ties with for stuff such as:
1. being dependent and clingy on me, and then causing trouble for me at summercamp because of it.
2. fucking around with me and cheating on their girlfriend (I was young and thought that either he wasn't with her anymore, or was about to break up with her. He was several years older. I was wrong.)
3. Using abortion as a form of birth control (my stance on abortion has evolved but I also don't feel like you should use it as birth control. this was probably a stupid break from this person but I don't regret it.)
4. telling a secret to a frat party because she wanted to laugh and be popular.
5. only hanging around me because you wanted to "wear me down" and eventually fuck me even though we kept agreeing that would never happen.
6. becoming a backyard breeder to get yourself out of your $30,000 debt and yet still NOT changing your spending habits (at least, not the habits she currently has, not the habits that got her into the debt. Her current habits are just keeping her there.)
I had to pause and think for a second of all the people who were once central to my life at one time or another. I don't miss any of these people because they've got bad character to me.
I did think when I cut off Sister B for treating my father so fucking horribly during that entire month about what would happen when she died. I might mourn the potential she had to overcome her bad character. And I'm not saying that it's impossible for her to change, become more responsible, stop scapegoating others, and generally not be a disloyal and cruel person.
If that happens, then perhaps in the future she might be more than just a relative-in-title-only.
But I don't consider it a grudge to cut someone out entirely. It, for the most part, happens relatively quickly. Someone does an action that I find reprehensible, and that's it. It only caused me so much pain with Sister B because I had gotten over various selfish and cruel things she had done in the past, things that other people would have been cut out for. That I finally cut her out for this final action.... like I said, she's just not someone I want in my life.
So if she did die, I would feel sorry that perhaps there had been distance, and I would mourn her actions as the cause of it, but I don't think I'd mourn my finding it necessary to cut her out. People like this just stop existing for me in a three-dimensional sense. Perhaps this does not make me psychologically different from others-- but I've talked to lots of people who express wonder that I can just do this. I feel like I don't just do this-- it's just done. So, I almost wonder if I've got some sort of emotional disconnect that other people don't have... I feel emotions deeply. I have a conscience. I just haven't figured out why it seems like I'm different from most other people in this extent. I feel like I can see shades of gray, and yet for the most part people say that I'm very literal. Very black and white. Perhaps that's it. Perhaps that's the way that I am how I am, and because of it there's no way that I could go back to a person that has bad character. I mean, I suppose I could fake it-- make small chat and just be behind this ginormous mental wall while I wonder internally why someone could have such bad character, while waiting for themselves to prove it once again. But even I see that as a waste of any emotions I might have in that setting, and a waste in my time because, like an animal who cannot deny it's basic nature, I know they would bite or strike again.
I don't even say this from a particularly self-righteous point of view (except for the dog-breeding. I get hella self-righteous about that.) Perhaps in some way, I have bad character. Perhaps this emotional disconnect is that bad character, or maybe there's some other flaw in me. In the end, I see the necessity of having certain people not be an influence anymore when before they used to be a huge influence. So if someone (and there's been a few) decide that I'm not worthwhile, then that's okay. I try to respect their decision after one or two tries to get them to explain their position.
And because you can't know the feelings in my heart at the moment-- I'm not even angry at Sister B anymore. She did what she wanted to do. She had reasons. I don't agree with her actions or her reasons. And it's pretty cut and dried at that.
Sister A is the only one I still feel anger for (except my mom for her passive acceptance) and that will cycle out too. She and I had a rocky childhood together, and while I understand the psychology behind it, I'm not going to accept her behavior when I'm 25. I can protect myself from it now, though she hasn't gone this hardcore with that attitude since I was 20.
I mean, I spent an entire month with anxiety in the pit of my stomach-- and anger and helplressness, and just sadness that the joy that I had looked forward to Christmas with was now replaced with all these negative emotions.
So, Sister A is even more poisonous in a way because she's poisonous to me. Sister B is only poisonous to me insofar as I used to hardcore worry that I might be like her in her negative ways. Now I don't have that. I don't have the bad dreams about her anymore.
I know that's a long meandering justification-- I just don't see it as a justification or a grudge or anything because I don't know why I'm built this way but people just aren't a part of my life after a certain point. It doesn't matter how pleasant to me they are after the fact.
I'm very mellow, and I can put up with a lot of crap, and I can address issues that bother me in a clear rational manner-- but when that final thing occurs to finally change my perspective on a person's character, or make it finally more trouble than it's worth-- that's it. they're gone.
Of course I really don't want anything to happen to them, but not because of me-- just because the whole family dynamic would change and I would have to deal with everyone's grief (and some of my own.) And Sister A has kids and a hubby so of course I don't want death to tear up that family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lysondra
G-d, I don't even know what to say. It's difficult and I did read the whole story. It seems like your parents aren't on the upandup with the whole graduation thing, either.
I wonder though if maybe there's miscommunication going on in this little game of wires and siblings and if maybe Sister A is the cause of it. It seems weird they got friendly and suddenly she got upset at you and started harassing you with questions right around that time. Maybe the level Sister A would stoop to is lower than you think.
In any case, I think you're right to cut sister B out... but it's difficult with the rest of your family. Cheerist, you're between a rock and a hard place, aren't you?
I'm sorry I can't be helpful. :(
I edited your post to say Sister A (firstborn) as opposed to Sister B (secondborn.) Sister A was the one essentially flaming me for not talking to Sister B anymore. I circumvented any misrepresentation by forwarding all the emails to my mom. It wasn't necessarily the best choice because the emails were ongoing and Sister A always writes like a self-righteous "why are you writing such hurtful emails?" when all I was doing was calling her on her inability to leave me and my decisions alone.
I did let Sister A know that I was forwarding the emails. And I did it so that a) Sister A didn't have get "forgetful" and act during Christmas like she didn't know why I thought she was a nosy biotch (she gets forgetful about her own actions)
and
b) make my mom understand that yes, "dibs" matters, and that this was fucking with my desire to go home.
so Sister A might have done some behind the scenes poison dripping. Eventually I just left it the hell alone and only brought it up (as far as I can remember) when others (like my mom) brought it up.
another influence is that I already feel a bit cut off from the family anyway because of them not knowing about the job. The thing is, I'm working more now than I ever have (not that it's that much, but still) so I've got a groove and I'm happy with it. It's hard not being able to share that with them, but not checking my family email makes it easier for the moment. All I get is forwards and mass emails, so when they finally do send me a single letter just to me I have to wade through all the bs just to find it. I think I'm just taking a mental vacation from my parents right now anyway. I'd love to talk to them on the phone, but if they haven't gone out of their way (right now) to talk to me, I just really don't care.
Guess that's the summer for ya.