-
California "Home-School" Ban
Since no one else here started up a thread and I only just heard about this;
Apparently California leads the way again, this time inprisoning parents who teach their own kids. Anyone know more about this and why there has been very little if any news coverage?
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
I don't agree about throwing them in jail that is a bit I do think kids have the right to learn that the world is not flat and that dinosaurs actually did exist, if you catch my not so subtle drift.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
^^Not all home-schoolers do it for religious reasons. I'm atheist and I homeschool my daughter because the education system sucks and I think she deserves a better education. Also (in Wisconsin anyway) home-schooled children must pass a standardized test to continue their education at home. I don't know why California has done this because I didn't read anything about it yet but I think it's pretty crazy since most parents who homeschool actually do a better job than the public school systems.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zia_Abq
I don't agree about throwing them in jail that is a bit I do think kids have the right to learn that the world is not flat and that dinosaurs actually did exist, if you catch my not so subtle drift.
NEA propaganda.
My brother was home schooled simply because - we don't know what happened - but the administration and teachers got a craw up their ass about him.
Four other children went to the school just fine and graduated - but this one brother they just took a dislike to him and that was that. Labeled a troublemaker.
So my mom home schooled him.
In California? Private schooling for my kids - that is for sure.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
WOW I just finished reading that. I think if the people were abusing their kids and letting them be sexually abused then THEY should be allowed to homeschool and in fact have their kids taken away from them, but don't fuck it up for those of us who homeschool properly, socialize our kids and don't abuse them in any way. WOW
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
How else do you expect Cali to indoctrinate the people.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
California IS NOT the state that should be banning learning from somewhere other than those 'schools'.
G-d if I had a dollar for every thing I know they told me was wrong...
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deogol
NEA propaganda
Nah, not from me anyway. Just speaking from my own experience with home school types. Never met one that wasn't part of the whole the planet is only five thousand years old school of thought. I guess they are out there but I just have yet to met one, that's all.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
^ hey, hey...we homeschool. But, because we think the public education system sucks. Our daughter is extremely active and talkative and doesn't sit still well for long periods of time...I know that sending her to public school would only be problems (like them labeling her ADD, ADHD, etc).
I also know how my daughter learns and I can accommodate that. In public school, you are forced to learn how the teacher teaches. When the teacher should be learning how to best teach each student...but in classes of 20+ students, that's not really easy (or possible). So, my daughter learns one on one and excels.
Criticize homeschooling all you want...but for a lot of kids...they are much better off.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
I guess if the kids take regular tests graded by a qualified third party to make sure they are learning up to par or the parents hold teaching degrees or something of that sort it wouldn't be a problem.
Curious questions. What about advanced science and math classes or is that just one of those cross that bridge when the time comes type thing? A private tutor at some point maybe?
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
As a kid I met two different types of homeschoolers. The first kind was of the ultra religious parent who wanted to keep all their children out of the real world. The second type of homeschooler I met was the young athlete who homeschooled in order to train more in their chosen sport. I was the product of public school mixed in with a few unaccredited private school experiences. My education in public school sucked. All of the homeschoolers I met were very advanced academically. Venus is right. When the child does not learn well the way the teachers lesson plans are set up no adjustments are ever given. This leaves many children behind. The public schools in many areas are so shitty that even religous fanatics can turn out better educated children than public schools. Regardless of a parents reasons (of which I know there are many more than the two kinds I met as a kid) they should have the right to educate their child as they see fit.
As for advanced courses for home schooled high schoolers many community colleges or homeshooling groups offer courses for those children.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
I'm sure there are a lot of parents that spend big chunks of their life making sure their kid has up-to-date facts on everything from evolution to adagio flute playing. Apart from that, they need to socialize, so every damn build-your-own-teddy-bear workshop, ballet class, boy scout troupe or whatever is paid for and attended religeously. Then a hand-full of morons ruin everything.
It is a crime (and very arrogant) to think that everything Junior needs to know can be taught at home - but I really doubt that's the case for a lot of homeschool kids.
I'm not really a fan of homeschooling. But I think the courts should consider putting some "surveillance" on home-schools, like a visit from a guidance counsler every few months. Or schedule proffesors to pop in and lecture in the homes, or at a community center for the local kids. And in this day in age there really should be mandatory online classes. Any of those steps - if they aren't already being taken - should be given a whirl before making it a freaking crime.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
G-d, I'm so glad I moved. K and I totally plan to homeschool.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
I think in theory, homeschooling done right is a great idea. However, the reality that I've gleaned from several people I've known who've been homeschooled is that whatever potential they had, and however much they learned-- they were extremely socially hobbled-- some due to religious reasons, and some just because they didn't get that social interaction from their peers.
Personally, I think that parents SHOULD have a great deal to do with their child's learning, but having to spend day in and day out with one's family is wearing both for the parents and the kid, and it makes for a rather twisted interdependent homelife-- because everything IS the homelife. I would much prefer that either several parents in a county got together and homeschooled their children TOGETHER so that there was a sharing of responsibilities and viewpoints, as well as socialization. Otherwise, private schooling in the right school with lots of involvement of the parents is probably the best.
I don't disagree that a parent would know how to best tailor an education to their child's learning and deficits, but at what point is the kid going to be allowed to learn how to make it with the majority of the population, and in normal learning situations? It's not like you can homeschool your kid at the university level--- but by the time they reach that age, it would be incredibly hard to learn when the student to teacher ratio is 30-1 or even higher. So the experience turns out not just to be socially retarding but educationally retarding (and note that I did not say intellectually retarded because there were some very intelligent people who'd been homeschooled, and yet it was the homeschooling that either a. made them not able to or made them especially intimidated by university level education, and b. they were severely fucked up with parent issues from being cooped up with one viewpoint from one teacher their whole education.)
I'm sure there might be a few homeschooled kids out there who weren't fucked up by their extremely sheltered life that comes with homeschooling, but I haven't met one yet.
This isn't to say that I disagree with a ban, I just disagree with parents who do this to their kids.
There's ways to tailor a kid's education using public and private resources as well as those within the family-- there just needs to be a balance.
So please, if you are going to do this for/to your kid,
a. get together with other like-minded parents so that your kid can have semi-regular "classes" where the child has to mix socially in an education-atmosphere and also has to deal with different teaching strategies by another teacher
b. enroll them in as many social programs and any summer school classes that might be available so they do get a chance to learn real-world coping strategies for situations that aren't tailored to them specifically
and
c. at the high school level, as long as they can handle the work load, get them involved in community college classes. For an intelligent kid, these classes are pretty easy, offer a great springboard into university learning, and also offer them socialization with people their parents wouldn't necessarily want them to mix with. This is important because a kid needs this to learn how to deal with these people slowly rather than being tossed into it when they finally rebel against their parents and start looking for an unsheltered life.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Well, I can tell you my brother wasn't socially hobbled. He interacted with people all the time. In fact he interacts with people a lot better than I do. It's not like they kept him locked up in the basement.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fancygirl
Personally, I think that parents SHOULD have a great deal to do with their child's learning, but having to spend day in and day out with one's family is wearing both for the parents and the kid, and it makes for a rather twisted interdependent homelife-- because everything IS the homelife. I would much prefer that either several parents in a county got together and homeschooled their children TOGETHER so that there was a sharing of responsibilities and viewpoints, as well as socialization. Otherwise, private schooling in the right school with lots of involvement of the parents is probably the best.
I was homeschooled and my mom belonged to a group that set up all kinds of stuff for homeschooled kids. Everyday she would drag me and my brothers and sisters to at least 2 different classes, events, etc. I remember girl scouts, bowling leagues, softball, jazzersize, singing lessons, homeschool get togethers (each of us kids went to different ones b/c of the age differences), slumber parties with other homeschooled girls, childrens theater, weekly trips to the zoo and the omniplex as well as several museuems (where we had classes taught by the instructors there). We had a gym membership and worked out with my dad at least 2-3 times a week, in addition to playing outside with all the neighborhood kids who were in public school. My poor mom!
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deogol
Well, I can tell you my brother wasn't socially hobbled. He interacted with people all the time. In fact he interacts with people a lot better than I do. It's not like they kept him locked up in the basement.
and I wish that out all the people I'd met who'd been homeschool, more had been like him. I don't expect that they keep their kids in the basement-- but the ones I had met didn't get as large and varied a social experience as people who had gone to public and private schools.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MeanGirl
I was homeschooled and my mom belonged to a group that set up all kinds of stuff for homeschooled kids. Everyday she would drag me and my brothers and sisters to at least 2 different classes, events, etc. I remember girl scouts, bowling leagues, softball, jazzersize, singing lessons, homeschool get togethers (each of us kids went to different ones b/c of the age differences), slumber parties with other homeschooled girls, childrens theater, weekly trips to the zoo and the omniplex as well as several museuems (where we had classes taught by the instructors there). We had a gym membership and worked out with my dad at least 2-3 times a week, in addition to playing outside with all the neighborhood kids who were in public school. My poor mom!
then that sounds like an optimum home schooling experience. If every kid who was home school got that then I doubt I'd have the opinion I have now towards most homeschooling.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fancygirl
then that sounds like an optimum home schooling experience. If every kid who was home school got that then I doubt I'd have the opinion I have now towards most homeschooling.
I learn (and unlearn) things on here all the time. It's what keeps me around. ;D
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deogol
I learn (and unlearn) things on here all the time. It's what keeps me around. ;D
It's going to take a lot more than people telling me that they know people IRL (or were those people) who aren't socially retarded from homeschooling to make me think that too-- I would actually have to meet some people too who have been homeschooled who aren't socially retarded. Doesn't make me any less glad that you're brother isn't one of them, but it's not likely to change my opinion either. Like I said earlier, I think there were some people out there who aren't affected this way by home schooling-- I just think most of them are because the parents aren't as good at it as Mean Girl's.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
ah, so your anecdotal evidence is valid, but other peoples' that disagrees with yours is not a valid enough indicator that homeschooling is a diverse and varied method of educating children.
one of the reasons anecdote isn't data is because when people run into anecdotal experience that is the opposite of theirs, they want to say it's not good enough because they personally didn't experience it. which is nuts.
homeschooling is nearly always better than public school, even if the children are undersocialised (which is way less common than the stereotypes). most of the information a kid under 15 needs is easily teachable by just about anyone of roughly average intelligence (which is technically the majority of the country) . and after that age, it is very easy to get into college and take specialised classes if one desires to in a given subject.
this is just so funny, that teaching children at home is banned suddenly, although they've been trying for quite a while in california.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miabella
homeschooling is nearly always better than public school, even if the children are undersocialised
Private school students are, on average, 2 years ahead of public school students.
Homeschoolers are, on average, 3 years ahead of public school students.
Not to mention the overrated 'socialization value' of public schools.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
glambman
Not to mention the overrated 'socialization value' of public schools.
There is a thread all in it's self.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ultra_manic
^^Not all home-schoolers do it for religious reasons. I'm atheist and I homeschool my daughter because the education system sucks and I think she deserves a better education. Also (in Wisconsin anyway) home-schooled children must pass a standardized test to continue their education at home. I don't know why California has done this because I didn't read anything about it yet but I think it's pretty crazy since most parents who homeschool actually do a better job than the public school systems.
I dunno. Don't you think it is a little... weird for this family to say "I think I can do a better job educating my children as a high school drop out"? It was one of the children themselves who lodged the complaint, wasn't it? While actual accreditation may be a high standard, maybe the capability of being accredited is a valid measure? I mean there should be some measure of saying "Yes, you can viably provide an education that will enable this child to make decisions as an adult." I mean, I have my doubts that you can make children college-ready if you haven't been to college.
-
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miabella
ah, so your anecdotal evidence is valid, but other peoples' that disagrees with yours is not a valid enough indicator that homeschooling is a diverse and varied method of educating children.
ugh,
a. I said that homeschooling is great if it's done in a way that socializes the kid.
b. I said that I've never met anyone homeschooled that wasn't socially retarded. I also said that I'm sure there are people out there who aren't but that I haven't met them.
I was pointing out that my opinion is not going to be changed on SW because I already know that there HAS to be people out there who aren't socially retarded, and that there's parents out there who do homeschooling in a way that doesn't socially retard people. However, my bias against homeschooling is going to continue until I start meeting people who've been homeschooled who weren't fucked up as a result.
A nice little chat about how homeschooling really works for a few people isn't going to overcome this bias.
I can agree with a few people on here who've had first hand experience with homeschooling that homeschooling CAN BE GOOD. This does not mean that a few people on the internet is really a valid indicator of homeschooling's success. I can only judge from my experience, and my experience states that there's more fucked up homeschool kids out there than not. I'll change that opinion when I start meeting loads of well-adjusted adults who've been homeschooled. Feel free to start a new age of homeschooling as long as you take every step to make sure they're not going to be socially fucked up members of society.
a couple other points:
1. I don't support the ban. (though Jenny brings up great points. I think that there needs to be training and more stringent check ups on homeschooling parents and their kids.)
2. I do think that homeschooling does a lot for a kid intellectually. I just think there's a massive trade off. I would rather see a kid who has intensely involved parents who is in public or private school than a kid who is just home schooled. Although, to take that further, I think that home schooling trumps a kid in public school with parents who could give a shit about their kid.
4. I spent most of my time in private school, with high school in public school where I was taking a lot of advanced placement and college level classes. I guess it just depends on what the parent has available for their kid at the time regarding crappy violent public school or great solid public school with good teachers versus private schools also with different ranges.
5. also, one example of a person I knew was a guy who knew a lot of latin and some greek. However, he was crap at computers, socially dependent on losers for self-worth, and couldn't cut the apron strings. He was so intimidated by the idea of going to college that he never went even though he was obviously bright. It's great that there's a more diverse learning in homeschool students, but if you can't teach your kid to handle a computer after eighteen years (actually longer since he still lived at home at like, 23) then you're not just socially hobbling your kid--you're fucking up their future as a member of society who can get a job, support themselves and otherwise be useful to those around them.