Re: California "Home-School" Ban
I haven't commented on this subject, and I'm still not going to in a specific fashion.
However, I would point out that California's home schooling ban is actually just one more step down the 'slippery slope' ... which now includes gov't directives in regard to what Californians should learn along with similar gov't directives in regard to what Californians should (or should not) smoke, eat, utilize in their own defense, etc.
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Well.
It's not a new step - it is the same law and education code that has been in effect for a very, very long time.
Nothing I saw indicated that the state was exercising a lot of control over the curriculum of homeschooling merely determining who was competent to teach it.
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fancygirl
ugh,
a. I said that homeschooling is great if it's done in a way that socializes the kid.
b. I said that I've never met anyone homeschooled that wasn't socially retarded. I also said that I'm sure there are people out there who aren't but that I haven't met them.
I was pointing out that my opinion is not going to be changed on SW because I already know that there HAS to be people out there who aren't socially retarded, and that there's parents out there who do homeschooling in a way that doesn't socially retard people. However, my bias against homeschooling is going to continue until I start meeting people who've been homeschooled who weren't fucked up as a result.
A nice little chat about how homeschooling really works for a few people isn't going to overcome this bias.
I can agree with a few people on here who've had first hand experience with homeschooling that homeschooling CAN BE GOOD. This does not mean that a few people on the internet is really a valid indicator of homeschooling's success. I can only judge from my experience, and my experience states that there's more fucked up homeschool kids out there than not. I'll change that opinion when I start meeting loads of well-adjusted adults who've been homeschooled. Feel free to start a new age of homeschooling as long as you take every step to make sure they're not going to be socially fucked up members of society.
a couple other points:
1. I don't support the ban. (though Jenny brings up great points. I think that there needs to be training and more stringent check ups on homeschooling parents and their kids.)
2. I do think that homeschooling does a lot for a kid intellectually. I just think there's a massive trade off. I would rather see a kid who has intensely involved parents who is in public or private school than a kid who is just home schooled. Although, to take that further, I think that home schooling trumps a kid in public school with parents who could give a shit about their kid.
4. I spent most of my time in private school, with high school in public school where I was taking a lot of advanced placement and college level classes. I guess it just depends on what the parent has available for their kid at the time regarding crappy violent public school or great solid public school with good teachers versus private schools also with different ranges.
5. also, one example of a person I knew was a guy who knew a lot of latin and some greek. However, he was crap at computers, socially dependent on losers for self-worth, and couldn't cut the apron strings. He was so intimidated by the idea of going to college that he never went even though he was obviously bright. It's great that there's a more diverse learning in homeschool students, but if you can't teach your kid to handle a computer after eighteen years (actually longer since he still lived at home at like, 23) then you're not just socially hobbling your kid--you're fucking up their future as a member of society who can get a job, support themselves and otherwise be useful to those around them.
um, again, you're privileging your anecdotal, non-direct experience with homeschooling over other peoples' anecdotal experience. the people you personally meet do not constitute a statistically useful fraction of homeschooled people-- so saying that homeschooling can't work out because you have different anecdotal experience is pretty silly.
the biggest thing i notice is that you buy into the myth that schooling at home magically means parents can't work with other homeschooling parents or use local public services/groups to socialise their children or just take them out on activities themselves. it's legal in many places to use public school services, as well as making use of local little league or whatever equivalents. just teaching your kid at home has never meant they can't ever leave the house or see other people. the homeschoolers i know have smart, fun and interesting teenagers and children. some are religious, some are not, but in all instances, the kids met other kids and adults along the way and just learned a ton of stuff they were never going to get from public schooling.
there's numerous websites for homeschoolers, both national and state-based. pretty informative reading, and certainly not duelling anecdotes on SW. homeschooling is producing wonderful adults already and has been for ages. the myths arise because as a culture it took a very short time to turn away from homeschooling and local non-government schooling and our memories are so short we think it's always been government school, when that is a very new thing overall.
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
That's terrible. I'm sure some homeschoolers slack (although they do have to pass tests) but lord knows teachers do too.
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miabella
um, again, you're privileging your anecdotal, non-direct experience with homeschooling over other peoples' anecdotal experience. the people you personally meet do not constitute a statistically useful fraction of homeschooled people-- so saying that homeschooling can't work out because you have different anecdotal experience is pretty silly.
I have an opinion. You have an opinion. Just because you have an opinion and state your case does not mean that suddenly my opinion is invalid. You have your facts. You have your reasons. You have your biases. As do I.
I was pointing out to Deogal that having a conversation online with people that I have not met in real life (and therefore cannot directly attest to direct truthfulness) is not going to sway me from my opinion.
Should I privilege everyone else's opinion and experiences over my own opinion and experiences? No. Because to do that would be pretty silly.
Disagreeing with me is fine-- I never said that my opinion was the end all be all reality, however it is what my experience and reality for me has been so far.
Get over the fact that people are going to disagree with you even after you state your opinion. Continually coming back at me and acting as if I'm doing something wrong or attacking you is useless and fosters negative energy-- not the best way to encourage internet discourse on a topic like this which is, guaranteed, going to have dissenting opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miabella
the biggest thing i notice is that you buy into the myth that schooling at home magically means parents can't work with other homeschooling parents or use local public services/groups to socialise their children or just take them out on activities themselves. it's legal in many places to use public school services, as well as making use of local little league or whatever equivalents. just teaching your kid at home has never meant they can't ever leave the house or see other people. the homeschoolers i know have smart, fun and interesting teenagers and children. some are religious, some are not, but in all instances, the kids met other kids and adults along the way and just learned a ton of stuff they were never going to get from public schooling.
there's numerous websites for homeschoolers, both national and state-based. pretty informative reading, and certainly not duelling anecdotes on SW. homeschooling is producing wonderful adults already and has been for ages. the myths arise because as a culture it took a very short time to turn away from homeschooling and local non-government schooling and our memories are so short we think it's always been government school, when that is a very new thing overall.
I don't consider homeschooling to be new. And I think it's awesome that you have had quite a different experience with homeschooling families. I absolutely hope that this is the direction that most homeschooling already takes, or is taking now. When I start meeting more well adjusted adults who have been homeschooled, that is what will change my opinion. So, essentially, if there are that many of them currently running around (or growing up soon enough that I'll come into contact with them fairly soon) then no doubt I should be meeting scads of them very soon.
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Update:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/s...n9homeskl.html
As to socialization via the public school system, I earned my high school diploma going through the LAUSD. If anything, the public school system in Los Angeles has made me more antisocial as an adult, not less antisocial.
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhaedrusZ
Update:
As to socialization via the public school system, I earned my high school diploma going through the LAUSD. If anything, the public school system in Los Angeles has made me more antisocial as an adult, not less antisocial.
I am amazed they can have close to a 50% drop out/failure rate in many areas and then have the audacity to lay the smack down on people actually attempting to teach their kids something.
Then when they fail, we hear all these excuses about how it is the parent and the home environment that is at fault.
I am glad this ruling reversed the previous decision.
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
Makayla is in cheerleading, ballet, theater, playgroup, etc. She's hardly unsocialized and I've met other "public" school kids who are raised by the school system so mom and dad can work to afford their HDTV and all the other tons of toys that they have who have absolutely no respect for anyone or anything.
I am Makayla (and Adrian and Aaron)'s mom. It is my job to see that they get the education that they need to be happy, well-adjusted, successful adults. I've been through both the public and private school system; neither one impressed me much. One because of the horrible education and the other because of the focus of "follow blindly".
I hear constantly: "I don't feel that I've got enough education to properly homeschool my children." To which my response is, "If you feel that the public school system failed you so miserably that you cannot teach your children properly, why in the world would you willing send them to public school?"
I may not have a teaching degree, but I'm intelligent, I know other families who homeschool and I'm not afraid to admit when I don't know the answer to a problem. I may not know it now, but I will after some searching.
People make a mountain out of a molehill constantly. Every homeschooled child I know (and I know a lot of them...homeschooled both for religious reasons or because the parents didn't like the PS system) are extremely more advanced than their Public/Private school counterparts. They also are very close to their families and while they have no problems with independence from their families, they realize the value of their family. Most homeschooled families we know are not trying to buy all the latest and greatest things. They are very happy with the things they have that are paid in full and living as simply as they can so that they can afford to live on one salary and take care of the children.
I do like Deogol's comment about the excuses of the PS system, etc. They can never accept their faults and so they never work to improve on them...simply being content in blaming everyone else for their shortcomings. Why would I want my children to learn this?
Insanity, I tell ya. ;D
Re: California "Home-School" Ban
My youngest sister was just in homeschool last year, and all three siblings were in homeschool at some point of our lives, and we're all "normal"