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man charged with murder for wife's suicide
A man is engaged in an argument with his wife. She is under the influence of alcohol and expresses the desire to kill herself. He hands her a loaded gun and tells her to go ahead. She does and he is charged with murder.
Do you think the charge is appropriate?
http://www.kypost.com/content/news/c...a-997682d8d715
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
No, I don't. She still chose to commit suicide. He did not kill her. I'm sure he did not mean for her to actually kill herself and was surprised when she did.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
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Originally Posted by
Lysondra
No, I don't. She still chose to commit suicide. He did not kill her. I'm sure he did not mean for her to actually kill herself and was surprised when she did.
Do you think he should be charged with perhaps a lesser crime or none at all?
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
I think a different crime. I'm not sure it is "lessor" but this one is too complex for me to treat it as murder in the standard sense.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
I imagine there's laws just about everywhere in the U.S. against aiding, abetting, enabling a suicide. That would seem to fit.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
Accesory to murder? its a stretch I admit....
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
He didn't kill her duh, I agree maybe some sort of aiding a suicide.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
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Originally Posted by
NewMoon
Do you think he should be charged with perhaps a lesser crime or none at all?
None at all. It's not even assisted suicide because he didn't pull the trigger at her request. Assisted implies the person who helped did it because the suicide victim couldn't.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
"Depraved indifference to human life" sounds like the worst they could get away with, which actually isn't as severe of charge as it sounds like.
Still, what a tragedy.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
I don't think the charge is valid... perhaps being reckless, but not murder. If she had killed someone else in a drunken rage, then she would be the responsible party, why the difference solely because she turned the gun on herself? And really, if he handed her the loaded gun, it was obviously in the house. I would imagine she knew where it was. Had he not handed it to her, it would have prolonged the inevitable by perhaps a few minutes.
I'd bet he was trying to prove a point, and it went nicely awry on him. I doubt he had any malicious intent.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
So if you tell someone to go kill someone else, what do you get charged with, if anything? Anyone know?
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
There have been plenty of suicides in which bystanders tried to stop the suicide victim (Freddy Prinze is one famous case) but they were unable to act in time. You can't shadow a seriously depressed person 24/7- that's what the room with rubber walls is for.
IMO he should be required to attend counseling & be investgated....It could have been he was just a sadist and got with a depressive person in order to dominate her (it happens.) Or she could have been very sick and he was unable to procure the help she needed. It's for the local law enforcement and court to decide.
PS I know of a man who drove his wife to kill herself by ingesting a poisonous substance- it was easier than divorcing her. Sick sad world.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
he should be charged with something. after all charles manson didnt kill anyone, he just told others to do it.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
Wow, talk about a slippery slope! o_O
Charging him with murder is just silly to me when there are other crimes far more appropriate, as others have mentioned.
On another note, how freaking stupid is this man for insulting and upsetting someone, then handing them a loaded firearm!? She could've just as easily shot him!
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
i agree with ibi, while i do believe in assisted suicide, what he did is different. he handed her the gun and essentially enabled her, especially since she was not in her right mind.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
Suicide is a crime in many states. I believe it shouldn't be hard to charge him as an accessory to this crime. Much more accurate.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
ABSO FUCKIN LUTELY!!! Who gives a loaded gun to someone under the influence of alcohol threatening to kill themselves?!! Yeah, that is the same as muder imo. Totally, and without a doubt.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
I have proably, im sure, in a drunken fight (years ago , but still)expressed a desire to kill myself, did i want to ? NO! How many people say that and dont mean it? If you are drunk and someone hands you a gun?! My guess is she had no idea it was loaded.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
I would NEVER in a MILLION years hand a loaded gun to someone under the influence who said anything about killing themselves. I think he should be charged with accessory if nothing else.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
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Originally Posted by
LilyLove
So if you tell someone to go kill someone else, what do you get charged with, if anything? Anyone know?
Actually, I was on board with "no" until you said that. What an interesting comparison.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
If I was a prosecutor I'd charge him with accessory to suicide? Is that a crime? It seems like if he was capable of doing something to prevent this and he stood there and egged her on, he's partially responsible. Of course she was drunk and all, which should have made him more quick to respond!
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
There is no actus reus or mens rea here to support the charge of murder in any common law jurisdiction. Unless there is some statute that prescribes his behaviour as criminal I cannot see how it is.
Suicide used to be illegal but no longer is. When a person used to attempt suicide and survive they used to be prosecuted with attempted suicide but they are no longer. So I fail to see how a person should be charged with accessory to a suicide.
Did a tragedy happen? Yes. Is he morally culpable? Perhaps. But I don't think he committed any criminal offence here. Handing someone a loaded gun still leaves the person with the choice of whether or not to end their life. If he did this to a non suicidal person they would not have pulled the trigger. It is sad but I dont think he should be charged.
Charging him with murder is just incorrect. Anyone who thinks he should be charged with murder fails to understand the criminal fault elements that are required to support a charge of murder.
Ah here we go:
State statute allows a murder charge if a suspect acts recklessly and indifferently to human life.
Unbelievable that is just an incorrect interpretation of law. I dont think statutes such as these should be able to override hundreds of years of judge made law.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
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Originally Posted by
LilyLove
So if you tell someone to go kill someone else, what do you get charged with, if anything? Anyone know?
Accessory to murder (I think).
But I still see a chasm of a difference. The difference is this -
In the most common case, people do not want to die. It doesn't matter then if one person plots for them to die, or if you tell someone else to do it, and two people kill someone against their will (which is your example). It is against their will and chosen by others.
In the case of suicide, a person wants to die. In some cases people do it alone. In some they have aid (i.e., Euthanasia).
There is a huge gray question though, is the person who wants to kill themselves of sound mind? Some believe by definition never, that suicide, no matter what the circumstances means the person is mentally ill (I don't see it in this black and white way personally). Some believe in some cases yes such as a person in chronic pain and no chance to live. Then there are the cases where the person is in extreme emotional distress, in "crisis", which leads to this case...
It is complicated how responsible she is for her choice, but even more so how responsible he is. How responsible are we for other's mental health anyway? In the extreme worst case most black and white interpretation we could imagine a law where if we wrote something to someone on the internet, and as a result of that, they go commit suicide, we are held responsible. In reality I don't think most of us would think that would be a fair law. So there is a big gray area here regarding where the lines of responsibility are drawn.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
^^^
eeeek I stayed up all night finishing an essay on right to die legislation. Legislation was passed here in the Northern Territory that allowed active euthanasia but it was quickly abolished by the High Court of Australia.
That is one area of law and ethics you dont want to touch with a ten foot pole.
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Re: man charged with murder for wife's suicide
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Originally Posted by
jaizaine
^^^
eeeek I stayed up all night finishing an essay on right to die legislation. Legislation was passed here in the Northern Territory that allowed active euthanasia but it was quickly abolished by the High Court of Australia.
That is one area of law and ethics you dont want to touch with a ten foot pole.
Yep. Talk about an area where people's feelings and thoughts about it are all over the map... yep, this is one that has gone on being debated for a LONG time.