Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
(snip)""Sen. Obama is a gifted and eloquent young man who can do great things for our country in the years ahead," Lieberman said. "But eloquence is no substitute for a record -- not in these tough times."
In a clear appeal for backers of Obama's former rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Lieberman said, "Contrast that to John McCain's record, or the record of the last Democratic president, Bill Clinton, who stood up to some of those same Democratic interest groups and worked with Republicans to get important things done like welfare reform, free trade agreements, and a balanced budget."
Lieberman tried to use his experience with homeland security, his religion -- he is an orthodox Jew -- and his reputation for voting his conscience to swing disaffected Democrats to McCain.
"I think it's a very strong signal to Jewish Democrats that there's a comfort level they can have in the McCain presidency and Joe Lieberman's support adds a great deal of credibility to that argument," said former New York gubernatorial candidate John Faso, R-Kinderhook.
Republicans seemed generally pleased on Tuesday that Lieberman was crossing the aisle.
"I don't know much about Joe Lieberman, but if he wants to join us he's welcome, Jewish or non Jewish," Eleanor Friedman said.
"I believe he's going to swing a lot of people that may have some doubts," said Rockland County Republican Committee Chairman Vincent Reda. "I think he brings a lot to us as Republicans." "(snip)
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When the former VP candidate of one party is now championing the candidates of the other party, somebody needs to start asking questions ! It's doubtful that Lieberman has a political 'death wish' in terms of his own career in politics, so there has to be a deeper reason.
The 'tin foil hat' crowd will tell you that the underlying issue is the impression by Israelis and American Jews that a President Barack Obama will NOT be committed to the defense / support of Israel if and when Israel again winds up in conflict with her muslim country 'neighbors'. Arguably there is a lot more to this than 'tin foil', a la recent comments from Rudy Giuliani ...
(snip)"DENVER - Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani ripped Sen. Barack Obama as "ambiguous" in his stand on support for Israel, miles from the convention hall where the Democrats are celebrating the near-nominee.
Giuliani, who's known as being staunchly pro-Israel and in favor of a strong relationship between the US and the Jewish state, made the comments in a sit-down with The Post as he started a two-day attack on Democrats during their convention, acting as a surrogate for GOP Sen. John McCain.
"There's no question he's ambiguous about" his stand on Israel, Giuliani said, citing specifically that Obama said months ago before a Jewish political group that he supported an undivided Jerusalem, and later aides clarified it.
"I think that his position in dealing with the issues that are important to Israel, like they are important to me in America, is -- (the) best and kindest thing you can say is, ambiguity," he said, clearly referring to security.
Giuliani added it's "of grave concern. It either comes from deeply held views that he has or lack of experience, one or the other. But in either case he's too close to the presidency not to have formed views about this that don't require having to explain it two or three different times."
The comments from Giuliani, who enjoys strong popularity in Jewish communities -- which could play a key role in the swing state of Florida -- came as some Jewish voters have expressed hesitance over Obama, and have cited Israel as the reason. "(snip)
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
Lieberman's slogan appears to also be "Country First". The question is which country? He still considers himself a Dem, but without a McCain victory and a Cabinet appointment, I think his political career is effectively going to be stuck in neutral for it's remainder.
It was amusing to hear the Republicans on the floor champion their party as the inclusive party after his speech.
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
Actually many Dems blame Lieberman for Gore's loss in 2000. Here's why. During the Florida re-count there were a number of Military absentee ballots that were clearly postmarked AFTER Election Day. It was unclear then and remains unclear when they were actually filled out i.e. they may very well have been filled out and dropped in the mail in a timely way and then were subject to the vagaries of the U.S. Postal Service. Lieberman publicly insisted that they be counted and they were overwhelmingly for Bush. Gore didn't dare publicly contradict Lieberman on counting votes from the military.
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
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Lieberman's slogan appears to also be "Country First". The question is which country?
that's a very 'telling' question ... and one which arguably applies to ALL Jewish American voters. From recent polls it would appear that a whole lot of Jewish American voters consider US foreign policy toward Israel and its 'enemies' to be a very important topic.
(snip)"If 25% was too high a percentage of Jewish Republicans for liberal Jews to stomach, they must really be having heart burn with the new Gallup poll, that showed that The Democrats' 50 point win over Bush with Kerry is now but a 29 point lead for Obama over McCain (61-32, with 7% undecided). In a state like Florida, with about 400,000 Jewish voters in Presidential election years, that is a net shift of about 85,000 votes. John McCain is trouncing Obama in virtually every poll in Florida taken to date, and the shift among Jewish voters seems to be part of Obama's problem in the state. I think given the way some Clinton voters have told pollsters they were for Obama this year (an average over-polling for Obama of close to 5% in primary states), my guess is that many of the undecideds are really McCain voters, and so are some of the 61% who say they are for Obama.
McCain could break the modern day GOP high water mark of 39% set by Ronald Reagan against Jimmy Carter in 1980, which was before Carter's venomous attitude towards the Jewish state was so evident. A shift of that magnitude could make a difference in Pennsylvania, a state Kerry won by only 2.5% in 2004, and in which Obama was soundly beaten by Clinton in the recent primary. There are over 200,000 Jewish voters in Pennsylvania.
None of this is surprising. Jews who care about Israel have many reasons to have concerns about Barack Obama, pretty much all of which have been laid out in the American Thinker in a series of exhaustively researched articles by Ed Lasky. Of course, some Jews do not care about Israel very much, and those Jews can find a comfortable home in the Democratic Party, where support for Israel is far lower than among Republicans overall in every national survey that has been taken comparing the parties on this issue.
In any case, with Obama a risk on Israel and untested in matters of national security and foreign policy, and with the Republicans offering John McCain, a long time strong supporter of the US-Israel relationship and a man, whose entire career provides a definition of the words "tested" and "experienced", it is no wonder that those Jews who choose this year to finally vote Republican will have a lot more company than they might have in the past. "(snip)
and the reason for their concern is fairly obvious, albeit not well documented by US mainstream media ...
(snip)""Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct, presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions."
- Barackobama.com
Barack Obama has enshrined the principle of unconditional summitry with Iran as one of the central foreign policy planks of his campaign for President. This despite recent efforts by Obama surrogates to confuse the electorate.
The statement above is found on the campaign website of Senator Obama and reflects his view -- repeated a number of times by himself in debates and question and answer sessions -- that the thrust of his foreign policy will be personal Presidential engagement with tyrannical regimes across the globe, including Hugo Chavez in Venezuela or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Iran. But the focus clearly will be on Iran as the campaign moves along. Iran is the leading state sponsor of terror and is developing the means to construct nuclear weapons.
What would be the consequences of such a Presidential meeting between President Obama and President Ahmadinejad?
Michael Gerson has written eloquently about the moral stain that will color the mere act of meeting with a Holocaust denier who boasts of his yearning to repeat the effort to exterminate the Jews. Obama, a man who on the campaign trail has declared that "nobody has spoken out more fiercely on the issue of anti-Semitism than I have," will be extending the honor of a Presidential meeting to the most dangerous anti-Semite of all.
For what benefit? As Gerson wrote,
"having made Iranian talks without precondition: his major foreign policy goal, Obama is left with little leverage to extract concessions, and little choice to move forward"
There will inevitably be pressure to offer concessions to Ahmadinejad to help ensure a successful summit. To paraphrase John F. Kennedy, who will bear the burden? Who will pay the price?
Ahmadinejad has been crystal clear about his goals. He is fanatic towards Jews and toward Israel -- a type of obsession the world has witnessed before. Israel will certainly be on the agenda of any presidential meeting.* Obama would meet and perhaps even shake hands with a man who has repeatedly condemned Israel, has called it "filthy bacteria" and will hear the ritual denunciations of Israel. Perhaps, he has become inured to such bombast. He has heard it all before.
When a summit meeting occurs, there is considerable pressure to "accomplish" something, to come to an agreement. What exactly would a President Obama be willing to give to Iran in order to get back something that could be touted as an achievement of his summitry?
The boost a summit (even one that led to no agreements) would give to the image of Ahmadinejad would embolden him within Iran (he faces internal pressures that directly blame him for Iran's diplomatic problems) and without. Furthermore, reformers throughout the region will be demoralized and our relations with Sunni nations,including Saudi Arabia, will be damaged as these Sunni regimes also seek to accommodate Iran. "(snip)
(snip)"The conclusions of the report have been all but repudiated and certainly have been superseded by Iran's success in enriching uranium and developing ballistic missiles. Yet all forward momentum toward further sanctions against Iran has halted. The NIE gave all parties who opposed the sanctions -- business interests, Russian oligarchs in charge of their nuclear export program, Chinese leaders eager to extend their influence -- a reason to oppose further efforts to halt Iran's nuclear program.
But the world's powers until now have diplomatically isolated the regime. Other world leaders have refrained from meeting with a leader who has continually issued a string of odious statements such as "Israel will be wiped off the map" and "Israel is a stinking corpse" and who denies the Holocaust.
A meeting between President Obama and President Ahmadinejad would trigger a parade of other foreign leaders to Tehran. They are merely waiting for a pretext, an excuse, that would absolve them from the shame of meeting with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Our strongest allies in Europe, Angela Merkel in Germany, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, Gordon Brown in England, face internal pressures to engage in Iran from commercial interests and political and diplomatic figures within their nations. Until now they have courageously resisted this pressure. No leader wants to bear the burden, the odium, the shame, of being the first Western leader to grant respectability to Ahmadinejad. Diplomatic pressure from America has provided them with another reason to deny such a bestowal of prestige upon Ahmadinejad. President Obama would radically change these policies.
When other high profile political leaders will come a calling, they may not bear the bowler of Neville Chamberlain, but they will bring hats in hand, newly ready and able to strengthen diplomatic (and hence all) ties to the mullahcracy. Under the cover of diplomatic outreach, sanction-busting deals will naturally follow. European nations are eager for energy deals that will provide the wherewithal for Iran to step up its nuclear weapons program.
Indeed, just this past week, OMV, an Austrian energy company with a multibillion dollar deal with the tyrants of Tehran, gave us a glimpse into the future. The chief executive officer of the company has openly declared that a political change in America -- one that he apparently believes in and hopes for -- will make it far easier to transact deals with Iran. Most assuredly he is not referring to John McCain."(snip)
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It's easy to discount the potential impact for the Democratic party of 'defecting' Jewish American voters, but that is arguably a big mistake. While Jewish voters only represent 3-4% of the US electorate on a nationwide basis, they also represent significantly higher percentages of state electorates in particular states ... some of which like Pennsylvania are close enough in polling numbers that any shift in Jewish voter support for democrats could tip the state's electoral votes in favor of McCain. Again while Jewish vothers only represent 3-4% of the US electorate, they represent a FAR higher percentage of total campaign contributions, of media ownership, etc. with a disproportionately high effect on general public opinion. And Jewish voters always turn out to vote in elections in far higher percentages than black voters or young voters (to name just two examples).
Perhaps even more important, Jewish American voters have been a fundamental part of the Democratic 'coalition' of special interests stemming all the way back to FDR and the 'great depression'. Thus the loss of the Democrats' traditional 70%+ monolithic Jewish voting block support could fundamentally alter the political landscape in future years.
~`
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
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Originally Posted by
Dirty Ernie
Lieberman's slogan appears to also be "Country First". The question is which country? He still considers himself a Dem, but without a McCain victory and a Cabinet appointment, I think his political career is effectively going to be stuck in neutral for it's remainder.
It was amusing to hear the Republicans on the floor champion their party as the inclusive party after his speech.
Tell ya what, if I lived in Connecticut, i would be pissed, as it seems more than likely the Dems will control the senate next session even withough Lieberman caucusing with the Dems.
I think you'll see the Dems tell him to f__k off.
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
Half of the USA's current foreign relations problems and military problems stem from the grossly entrenched and unrealistic uneven position toward Israel. And that is deeply entrenched in politics, basically in ONLY this country.
A few presidents tried to be a bit more even-handed, such as Carter and even Nixon, but the politics (internal and external) quashed those efforts. And Bush, who is somewhat aligned with fundamentalists, with their reactionary belief in the return of Israel of the 2400 years past, has allowed Israel to do much to destroy what peace gains had been made by previous administrations up till then.
Someone had better do something, because those angry people (Muslims) will never give up their retribution efforts. So far it is a standoff, though there are some obvious (and politically difficult) compromise positions, if the USA would just be more even-handed. If Obama gets in, he'd better be the man to do it. Same for McCain.
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
that's a very 'telling' question ... and one which arguably applies to ALL Jewish American voters. From recent polls it would appear that a whole lot of Jewish American voters consider US foreign policy toward Israel and its 'enemies' to be a very important topic.
None of this is surprising. Jews who care about Israel have many reasons to have concerns about Barack Obama, pretty much all of which have been laid out in the American Thinker in a series of exhaustively researched articles by Ed Lasky. Of course, some Jews do not care about Israel very much, and those Jews can find a comfortable home in the Democratic Party, where support for Israel is far lower than among Republicans overall in every national survey that has been taken comparing the parties on this issue.
(snip)""Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct, presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions."
- Barackobama.com
Ahmadinejad has been crystal clear about his goals. He is fanatic towards Jews and toward Israel -- a type of obsession the world has witnessed before. Israel will certainly be on the agenda of any presidential meeting.* Obama would meet and perhaps even shake hands with a man who has repeatedly condemned Israel, has called it "filthy bacteria" and will hear the ritual denunciations of Israel. Perhaps, he has become inured to such bombast. He has heard it all before.
And this is one of the MAJOR reasons why I will NOT be voting for Obama. It has nothing to do with HIS race, sex, or religious affiliation; it ALL has to do with MINE. I can't vote for someone that wants to "hang out" with that monster.
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
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Originally Posted by
kitana
And this is one of the MAJOR reasons why I will NOT be voting for Obama. It has nothing to do with HIS race, sex, or religious affiliation; it ALL has to do with MINE. I can't vote for someone that wants to "hang out" with that monster.
What is YOUR solution to the issue?
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
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Originally Posted by
sapphiregirl
What is YOUR solution to the issue?
You don't want to know.
It has nothing to do with being liberal or gay rights or anything bad about Republicans or people from Kentucky, lol.
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
Quote:
Ahmadinejad has been crystal clear about his goals. He is fanatic towards Jews and toward Israel -- a type of obsession the world has witnessed before. Israel will certainly be on the agenda of any presidential meeting.* Obama would meet and perhaps even shake hands with a man who has repeatedly condemned Israel, has called it "filthy bacteria" and will hear the ritual denunciations of Israel. Perhaps, he has become inured to such bombast. He has heard it all before.
^^^ Ahmadinejad is a friggin' lunatic but he represents Iran. Obama needs to find a way around him but until that happens Ahmadinejad is the only way to talk to Iran. You think Obama give Ahmadinejad any credence? Obama is not an idiot. But you have to either talk with them or blow them to hell. and talk should come first. And to talk you can't spit on his hand then try to reason with him, even if you'd like to. Don't be such an idealogue. Politics and diplomacy are dirty businesses, at least when your adversary is as nutzo as Ahmadinejad is.
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kitana
And this is one of the MAJOR reasons why I will NOT be voting for Obama. It has nothing to do with HIS race, sex, or religious affiliation; it ALL has to do with MINE. I can't vote for someone that wants to "hang out" with that monster.
What monster? Lieberman?
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kitana
And this is one of the MAJOR reasons why I will NOT be voting for Obama. It has nothing to do with HIS race, sex, or religious affiliation; it ALL has to do with MINE. I can't vote for someone that wants to "hang out" with that monster.
Hang out? For real? You think he wants to "hang out" with him, maybe grab a beer? ::)
Re: Lieberman 'champion's' Jewish / Israeli position at Rep Convention ...
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Originally Posted by
Richard_Head
Hang out? For real? You think he wants to "hang out" with him, maybe grab a beer? ::)
"I'm a dinner jacket" doesn't drink alcohol but they could go for coffee.