wear her traditional religious head gear?
Topic was being spoken about in the local station and I would like to know how the blue side feels about it?
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wear her traditional religious head gear?
Topic was being spoken about in the local station and I would like to know how the blue side feels about it?
Is bad enought that they are allowed to wear those darn scarfs of theirs for their license photographs not allowing for any kind of positive ID whatsoever...>:(
It wouldn't bother me.
I don't see why not. Sadly it'd probably hurt her more than anyone.
How would one know if it is a real police officer or just someone who is impersonating one? should Jewish officer be allowed to wear their Yamaka?
One point brought in by a caller was that when you go in to the police, you are encouraged to leave any personal information of who you are as a person to ensure that if a drunk, a person who is high a suspect sees any type of anything that is dear to the officer they can use it to get the officer upset and this can cause more problems.
Also, what is a the purpose of a uniform?
And does the separation of Religion and state apply?
Yes they should be allowed to. Anybody can impersonate a police officer. And I'm certain a muslim trying to get away with impersonation is not going to be wearing her headscarf.
As for seperation fo church and state... I don't see them trying to force you to be a religion. I see police officers wearing crosses all the freaking time. Should they stop as well.. or is it only okay because they believe in Jesus? If someone is a police officer, they have gone through NUMEROUS checks to make sure they are safe to their surroundings. A headscarf or a cross isn't going to make them suddenly a horrible bomb-toting human being.
If you're going to take a Jew's Yarmulke, take the fuckin' Christian's crosses as well.
L need a hug? you ok? lol these are the points callers made, they are not allowed to wear crosses, well they are but not to be shown over the uniform.
My personal question is, does a head scarf allow for ability to perform? no seriously, does it prevent full use of the head? does it cover the ears and can you hear as well? what if it gets loose and gets caught on something? is it a safety hazard for her or other officers?
Huh... no it does not effect anything. Actually it should be worn UNDER the police hat. It does not cover the ears.
I'm betting the only safety hazard it has to her is some prick thinking it's okay to shoot her because she's Muslim.
And no, I don't need a freaking hug. You asked questions and I answered them. How dare I?
If anything, I'd be GLAD a cop was wearing her headscarf. Why? Because they wear them to show their reverence to G-d. If she is so faithful to her religion to wear something knowing full well people out there are awful and racist while still maintaining her police duties, I know she is a fearless creature who TRULY believes in the work she does to help people. If anything, it'd mean she's a more capable officer, not a worse one.
I voted NO because I am sick of the PC crap.
FBR
Oh I see.
Well maybe it's the topic, seemed a bit tense there for a minute and I tried to be lighthearted, anyway. I see it isn't a hazard to her or the others, but maybe because of her religion she might be targeted, sucks ass yes but it is what it is in the world.
I personally find any alteration to the uniform not suitable, I see it as it having a purpose, or maybe I am just hopeful about this but seeing all as the same, at least in appearance, benefits the police force.
She's not doing anything to desecrate the actual uniform. She's not hotfixing bling to it or cutting it into a tube top. She's wearing her reverence to G-d in plain sight, tucked neatly underneathe her hat (and most likely, it's even safer because she would be putting it around her police bun and tucking it under her hat to make it so her hair can't be grabbed either)... if she was fucking with the actual uniform, I'd get that. But she's not touching anything except covering her head underneathe her hat.
Heck, the ones here even match their scarf to their uniform.
Aha I was not seeing it that way, every search I've done on them though seem to cover the ears, but I guess the material isn't really think. I have never really seen one up close.
I am not sure if this is the article but I found this...
PHILADELPHIA -- Lawyers for a Philadelphia police officer who wants to wear a Muslim head scarf on the job are taking their case before a federal appeals court panel. Kimberlie Webb, 44, has been on the force more than 10 years. A federal judge ruled in June 2007 that the police department did not discriminate against Webb when it forbade her from wearing the head scarf at work.
Webb has appealed to the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Her lawyers are going before a three-judge panel on today. The scarf would cover Webb's hair, forehead, neck, shoulders and chest; the city says it violates uniform regulations.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...nts_to_we.html
It is this one cause it was posted on Sept of this year, another source...
Court hears appeal by Phila. officer to wear religious head scarf
By Robert Moran
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
A three-judge appellate panel heard arguments today on whether to reopen a case concerning an Islamic Philadelphia police officer who wants to wear a religious head scarf while on duty.
Last year, a U.S. District Court judge dismissed a suit filed by Officer Kimberlie Webb, writing that the Police Department could "subordinate individuality to its paramount group mission" of protecting lives and property.
Attorney Jeffrey M. Pollock, representing Webb in her appeal, told the judges from the Third Circuit Court of Appeals today that the case represented a "fundamental liberty right" and asked the judges whether wearing a scarf is "such a violent religious symbol that we can't tolerate that?"
Eleanor Ewing, a lawyer for the city, said the uniform policy was intended to maintain religious neutrality. Decisions about what officers are allowed to wear should be left to the police commissioner.
However, Pollock said the department has tacitly allowed officers to wear Christian crosses and angel pins and ash on their foreheads for Ash Wednesday.
Webb, 46 and a mother of six, became a Muslim in 1995, the same year she joined the Police Department.
In court today, she wore her traditional "khimar" over her hair and around her neck. In Islam, it is part of the "hijab," which is a word for modesty in clothing.
For work, she has custom khimar with a velcro fastener so that it breaks away if someone grabs at it. It is also less noticeable under a police hat than her other scarves.
Outside of court, Webb said she has been allowed to pray in Muslim fashion at the 35th Police District station where she works.
She wrote memos requesting that she be granted permission to wear her scarf on duty. "They just said no," she said.
After Muslim men on the force were allowed to wear beards, which required a policy change to accommodate them, she decided she had a right to wear a khimar.
In 2003, she appeared at work three days in a row with her khimar. Each time she was told to remove it and she refused. And each time she was sent home. She then received a suspension.
She filed a claim with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and won. Then she sued.
Her civil case was based on a narrow claim and did not allege violations of her constitutional right to freedom of religion and speech, which her new attorneys are now asserting.
Ewing, the city's attorney, called the appeal "a request for a do-over" and a request for the judges to consider facts and arguments not introduced in the original case.
Webb is being represented pro bono by Pollock, a New York attorney, and Seval Yildirim, a professor at Whitter Law School in California.
Pollack said the appeals court probably will rule in 60 to 90 days.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/br...ead_scarf.html
I googled and every image of a police woman wearing her headscarf around appears to be Australian - but in Aus. they're allowed to wear it in place of the hat.
But seriously, anybody willing to die defending what they believe in while wearing their belief in plain sight is okay by me. She's not hurting anyone. She's saying, "I am Muslim and you can hurt me for that - but I still choose to protect you and my country knowing full well I could be killed for who I am." That's a lot of freaking faith and I'll be standing near her in a gunfire, lemmetellyou.
You changed your second link. Which is good, I had a lot of shit to say about the fact he put officer in quotes and started calling her a waste of money.
Yeah I saw it wasn't an actual news paper just some idiot speaking out of his ass.
Either way - I'm all for it. Some of the quotes on these sites are just mind boggling. One person thought that Muslim headscarves were to show subservience to men? Um....no?
Man, research would be good before people commented. But just because she's Muslim she's somehow 'bad'.
Racism. Win.
Requires too much brain power at the moment.. I rather like FBRs thinking though. Whatever is the least PC :)
Well off to bed, thought it would be a good debate. See people's views and opinions. I truly hope it so does not get ugly in here.