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Yes We Did ! in perspective
It was an historical event, to put it mildly. I'm a white conservative and I voted for Obama. Obama won just about every demographic except white working class males.
Obama got about 53 % of the vote ( the highest for a Dem. and largest victory margin since LBJ ) and a lot of Republican dead wood got swept out of office- Dole in North Carolina; Sununu in New Hampshire and Stevens will soon be where he belongs.
Let's try to keep things in perspective. Let's enjoy the moment without being euphoric. There is a toxically unpopular incumbent in the White House. The economy is doing poorly and we're fighting an unpopular war in Iraq. A lot of Republican incumbents decided not to run for reelection.
New Jersey decided it wants to be represented by a walking cadaver in the Senate but Minnesota apparently rejected the smarmy Al Franken. By a whisker.
The Republicans can still filibuster the Senate.
California rejected gay marriage (52-48% Lawsuits to follow ) . I think Arizona did too. Too bad afaic but Obama said he opposed gay marriage.
For me, the biggest positive was that Hillary is destined for political oblivion.
Let's see how popular Obama is if we're still in Iraq two years from now. It will be "Obama's War" in about two months.
What will his poll numbers be if he raises EVERYONE'S taxes ? Will we go the way of Britain of the late 60's and early 70's ? How long before the "Daily Kos" types turn on him ?
How much Congrssional squealing will he put up with as he cuts some of their cherished programs ? Murtha can howl like a hippo if his district loses a dime.
How aggressive will he be in going "green" ? How high will he let gas prices and electric rates go up ? How will that play in "coal country" ? Obama won every major coal state except West Virginia- Ohio, Pa., Va. and Colorado. How on board will "Sheets" Byrd, Jay Rockefeller, Casey, Webb, Warner, Salazar et. al. be when crunch time comes on coal policy ? What about Congressman Dingell, Senator
Levin et. al. on imposing higher mileage and emission standards on cars and trucks ?
These and a lot of other questions will be answered in the next four years.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
Nope. I am euphoric. Not because a Dem won but because most of the country voted for a black man. That speaks volumes about where we're headed as a country and yeah, I'm going to stay euphoric.
If people can't see that as a reason to absolutely over the fucking moon about this election (no matter who they thought should win politically) then I don't know what to say to them.
Fuck the politics for a minute, look what the US has accomplished!
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Miss_Luscious
Nope. I am euphoric. Not because a Dem won but because most of the country voted for a black man. That speaks volumes about where we're headed as a country and yeah, I'm going to stay euphoric.
If people can't see that as a reason to absolutely over the fucking moon about this election (no matter who they thought should win politically) then I don't know what to say to them.
Fuck the politics for a minute, look what the US has accomplished!
I agree that it's a WONDERFUL, MARVELOUS, INSPIRING, ENCOURAGING etc. accomplishment BUT the higher the euphoria, the harder the fall when it wears off.
In Buddhism, they say that: " Heaven is the back door to Hell " meaning that there is no such thing as heaven on earth because the good times never last.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
My euphoria will never ever wear off. Ever. Never Ever Ever. A black man was elected president of the United States. That kind of euphoria stays with me FOREVER.
Like I said, fuck the politics. I could care less about the politics. If the repubs had run a black man and he had won, I would be just as euphoric I assure you. Not about the politics, just about the implications for race in this country.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Miss_Luscious
My euphoria will never ever wear off. Ever. Never Ever Ever. A black man was elected president of the United States. That kind of euphoria stays with me FOREVER.
Like I said, fuck the politics. I could care less about the politics. If the repubs had run a black man and he had won, I would be just as euphoric I assure you. Not about the politics, just about the implications for race in this country.
After you get past the history-making, Obama was given what everyone who wins the Presidency is entitled to : an OPPORTUNITY to govern. Let's see what he does with it.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Miss_Luscious
My euphoria will never ever wear off. Ever. Never Ever Ever. A black man was elected president of the United States. That kind of euphoria stays with me FOREVER.
Like I said, fuck the politics. I could care less about the politics. If the repubs had run a black man and he had won, I would be just as euphoric I assure you. Not about the politics, just about the implications for race in this country.
What about your previous comments that you weren't voting for him just because he was black?
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
Well I certainly understand your euphoria. However, be aware that not everyone in the world has the confidence in Obama that you do ...
- the Russian president announced this morning that Russia is installing ballistic missiles targeted at US ally Poland and other EU countries.
- 'big money investors' ( via hedge funds) sold a ton of US stock shares today, causing the markets to drop by 5%+
- Hamas fired 44 rockets, missiles and mortar shells across the Palestinian Gaza border today in a co-ordinated attack on Israel
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
bem401
What about your previous comments that you weren't voting for him just because he was black?
I didn't and I have no idea how me being happy about him winning somehow means I only voted for him because he's black. I can still revel in the fact that he is a black man who won the presidency. That's huge!
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
Well I certainly understand your euphoria. However, be aware that not everyone in the world has the confidence in Obama that you do ...
- the Russian president announced this morning that Russia is installing ballistic missiles targeted at US ally Poland and other EU countries.
- 'big money investors' ( via hedge funds) sold a ton of US stock shares today, causing the markets to drop by 5%+
- Hamas fired 44 rockets, missiles and mortar shells across the Palestinian Gaza border today in a co-ordinated attack on Israel
How do these connect to Obama winning?
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
It disappoints, but doesn't surprise, that many "conservative" pundits ( not all ) have exhibited a shameful lack of graciousness in defeat. I listened to a lot of talk radio and watched Fox yesterday. Rush was at his worst and really turned me off. No recognition whatsoever for the history and potential positives. Even Ralph Nader was in very poor form saying : " Obama has to choose between being an 'Uncle Sam' and an 'Uncle Tom'. " Shepard Smith put him in his place asking him if that is what he wants his legacy to be .
If Hannity and Levin were dogs, they'd be put to sleep. Totally rabid ravings. But I never liked either one anyway. All they do is keep repeating the same stuff aboujt Ayers, Wright etc. America spoke loud and clear : "WHO CARES".
In contrast, O'Reilly, Kudlow and Imus were cognizant and appreciative of the historical moment All were wiling to give Obama his due and an opportunity to govern.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
Hey Eric I agree with you yeah I still can't believe we have a black man for president, but I wanna see whats he is gonna do for our country in the next four year. Because he is really gonna have to learn a re-election.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
Well I certainly understand your euphoria. However, be aware that not everyone in the world has the confidence in Obama that you do ...
- 'big money investors' ( via hedge funds) sold a ton of US stock shares today, causing the markets to drop by 5%+
Hey I hear you loud and clear my man was like look the stock market is gonna go up 11/5/2008 and I was like I dont think so it drop 500 points.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
Well I certainly understand your euphoria. However, be aware that not everyone in the world has the confidence in Obama that you do ...
- the Russian president announced this morning that Russia is installing ballistic missiles targeted at US ally Poland and other EU countries.
- 'big money investors' ( via hedge funds) sold a ton of US stock shares today, causing the markets to drop by 5%+
- Hamas fired 44 rockets, missiles and mortar shells across the Palestinian Gaza border today in a co-ordinated attack on Israel
sadly...you don't understand the euphoria..... and it insults me just to hear that come out of your mouth....
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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How do these connect to Obama winning?
- in regard to the Russian missiles being installed on the Polish border, the arguable reason that Putin and Medvedev chose to do this is that they do not forsee any significant political or military consequences stemming from the new Obama administration ... i.e. the democrats will be unwilling to commit US troops or risk yet another foreign military commitment over an ally as 'unimportant' as Poland (or Ukraine, or Georgia)
- in regard to 'big money investors' selling off their US assets, which continued today for an additional 4% decline in US stock markets, this is arguably the result of Obama's announced capital gains tax increases ( which will cost investors more next year than this year ) as well as Obama's announced direct and indirect tax increases on US businesses (which will lower profitability thus lower the future value of the company's stock shares)
- in regard to Hamas attacking Israel, this is arguably the result of Obama's perceived position of being less committed to support of Israel and more committed to discussions with Islamic countries (regardless of their having been labeled as national supporters of terrorism)
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
I agree with Melonie. If youcan not see how Obama being elected maybe, possibly could have caused that stuff, then I dont know what to say. It is not a coincidence that directly after the election results this stuff happens. This is not the first time it has happened and it wont be the last. Countries reactions to our elections have always been becauseof how they precieve the new administration will react.
It is the same as when dad comes home, the kids act better, because they know the consiquences of their actions if dad sees it. They are less likly to take those risks.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Lady
I agree with Melonie. If youcan not see how Obama being elected maybe, possibly could have caused that stuff, then I dont know what to say. It is not a coincidence that directly after the election results this stuff happens. This is not the first time it has happened and it wont be the last. Countries reactions to our elections have always been becauseof how they precieve the new administration will react.
It is the same as when dad comes home, the kids act better, because they know the consiquences of their actions if dad sees it. They are less likly to take those risks.
you if mccain was elected there would have been no negative reprecutions???? come on now... its the same with any candidate...might not have been the same reactions...but there would have been bad reactions... and i know one of them would have been that this country would have been divided... and extremely upset...
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Ms. Mia Roberts
you if mccain was elected there would have been no negative reprecutions???? come on now... its the same with any candidate...might not have been the same reactions...but there would have been bad reactions... and i know one of them would have been that this country would have been divided... and extremely upset...
Nobody said there would not have been negative repercutions had McCain been elected. We have NO Idea what other countries would have done. i am sure some political analysts do though. We do know what DID happen largly in part to Obama being elected.
Nobody is attacking your precsious prez. We are simply stating facts. Yo ureally need not be so defensive.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
I actually like your post a lot, E_S. I teared up watching the speeches. My heart did surge with the way he has the ability to inspire and unify people and at the huge step toward full equality between blacks and whites. However, he has a LOT of hype to live up to.
There is no question he's intelligent. I'd go as far as to say he has a type of genius. BUT, there is the experience issue, and at the end of the day you never really know
a) what policies he can/will push through that will be consistent with his campaign promises
b) what crazy curveballs will get thrown at him (and the country) that might block ideal progress and repair.
And of course this is the case with any candidate, but his effectiveness as a politician is really still somewhat unknown. He has all the tools (intelligence, charm, reason), now we will all be holding our breath hoping that Mr. Golden Boy is able to live up to the immense challenge that will be bringing America back to its previous prestige.
He is only human after all!
I am staying positive as I do believe he is the better man for the job than McCain (I liked the guy well enough before his mockery of a campaign, though).
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Lady
Nobody said there would not have been negative repercutions had McCain been elected. We have NO Idea what other countries would have done. i am sure some political analysts do though. We do know what DID happen largly in part to Obama being elected.
Nobody is attacking your precsious prez. We are simply stating facts. Yo ureally need not be so defensive.
then what is your point...why bring up things that don't matter???? who is ignoring the effects of his election. No one is denying that bad will come with the good....
its just annoying that people are already complaining... let him get into office first dammit
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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in regard to the Russian missiles being installed on the Polish border, the arguable reason that Putin and Medvedev chose to do this is that they do not forsee any significant political or military consequences stemming from the new Obama administration
I guess those Russians must be phsychic and they knew Obama was going to win so they decided to invade Georgia a few months ago. Come on guys!.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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We do know what DID happen largly in part to Obama being elected.
How can you possibly say that Lady. All these events have been simmering for months and years. Stuff much worse than this has happened on many, many days over the last 8 years and the last 8 years before that. There is a whole world out there, it doesn't all revolve around a US election. In any case, he's not even in charge yet, and for the most part differences will take time to be felt.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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Originally Posted by
Lady
I agree with Melonie. If youcan not see how Obama being elected maybe, possibly could have caused that stuff, then I dont know what to say. It is not a coincidence that directly after the election results this stuff happens. This is not the first time it has happened and it wont be the last. Countries reactions to our elections have always been becauseof how they precieve the new administration will react.
It is the same as when dad comes home, the kids act better, because they know the consiquences of their actions if dad sees it. They are less likly to take those risks.
So, do you think Bush's election was responsible for 9-11 then?
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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I guess those Russians must be phsychic and they knew Obama was going to win so they decided to invade Georgia a few months ago. Come on guys!.
On the other hand, the Russians (mostly) withdrew from Georgia and stopped a potential similar 'invasion' of the Ukraine because GWB sent US aircraft carriers into the Black Sea as an immediate response to Russian actions in Georgia. Arguably the Russians don't fear the similar possibility of Obama sending US aircraft carriers into the Baltic Sea as a result of installing Russian missiles in Kaliningrad.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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On the other hand, the Russians (mostly) withdrew from Georgia and stopped a potential similar 'invasion' of the Ukraine because GWB sent US aircraft carriers into the Black Sea as an immediate response to Russian actions in Georgia. Arguably the Russians don't fear the similar possibility of Obama sending US aircraft carriers into the Baltic Sea as a result of installing Russian missiles in Kaliningrad.
Melonie, I realize you're very intelligent, but your logic is very flawed.
A). If Bush was such an intimidating figure as you propose, the Russian wouldn't have invaded Georgia in the first place.
B) How would the Russians have any idea whether or not he would send the aircraft carriers (he is talking about escalating the war in Afghanastan, he's obviously not a pascifist) until they set up the missile system and he responds everything is pure speculation which is not a strong suit for the conservative/republican types from pretty much everything I've seen.
C) Maybe just maybe they are putting the missiles there because they feel threatened that WE ARE PUTTING MISSILES ALL AROUND THEM. It's very possible that when an adult is in charge of the US alot of these percieved threats will subside and the whole thing will be a moot point.
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Re: Yes We Did ! in perspective
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If Bush was such an intimidating figure as you propose, the Russian wouldn't have invaded Georgia in the first place.
this is indisputably true. GWB is no Ronald Reagan. And Obama may turn out to be far different than Jimmy Carter.