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It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
(snip)NEW YORK (CBS) ― The world's economic fears were violently pushed aside on Wednesday by another global threat -- terrorism.
A massive coordinated attack was launched in Mumbai, India just hours after the FBI warned that Al Qaeda may be targeting New York's subways and railroads.
If Al Qaeda terrorists have their way there will be chaos and mayhem here this holiday season, a mass transit bomb plot that would probably affect all the subway and train lines at Penn and Grand Central stations.
"The threat is serious, the threat is significant, and it is plausible," said Congressman Peter King, R-Long Island, a member of the House Homeland Security Committee.
Uniformed officers, including this NYPD Counter Terrorism Squad members and Amtrak cops with M-16s, flooded Penn Station Wednesday after the FBI said it had received a "plausible but unsubstantiated" report that Al Qaeda operatives discussed a plan two months ago to bomb New York City's mass transit system.
The report said: "These discussions reportedly involved the use of suicide bombers or explosives placed on subway/passenger rail systems."
Sources told CBS 2 HD the plot involved the Long Island Rail Road. If the explosion went off in Penn Station, the source said, it would affect transportation of Amtrak's northeast corridor between Boston and Washington, LIRR service and New York City subway service.
"This is definitely linked to Al Qaeda and they had very significant details about exactly how they would carry out the attack, where they would carry it out -- that's what makes it sound so plausible," Rep. King said. "(snip)
Thanksgiving Day in New York indeed !
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Key word here is unsubstantiated. But hey lets not allow a little thing like something being unsubstantiated to get in the way of good old fashion fear mongering or anything :sarcastic
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Blame this on Bush's diversion into a war we did not need nor want (Iraq). Instead of one that we did need and want (Afghanistan). And because of that failure it has not involved more countries (Pakistan, some African countries, Indonesia, etc.), and they have gotten more powerful, diverse, and organized world-wide.
'FAIL' is the recent term for this.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
But hey lets not allow a little thing like something being unsubstantiated to get in the way of good old fashion fear mongering or anything
this of course leads to a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation i.e. the only way to prove that serious terrorist intent against the USA still exists is to allow the terrorists to carry out their plans. Seeing as how New York is the main terrorist target, I simply can't buy into your position.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
More attack attempts are entirely possible. I feel good that they are watching but they haven't tightened up all the big holes yet, even after all those billions directed at it a few years ago. Another Bush bungle.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
threlayer
Blame this on Bush's diversion into a war we did not need nor want (Iraq). Instead of one that we did need and want (Afghanistan). And because of that failure it has not involved more countries (Pakistan, some African countries, Indonesia, etc.), and they have gotten more powerful, diverse, and organized world-wide.
'FAIL' is the recent term for this.
WRONG.
Terrorists have been blowing up planes and taking hostages long before Bush ever showed up in the political scene.
Learn a little history.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deogol
WRONG.
Terrorists have been blowing up planes and taking hostages long before Bush ever showed up in the political scene.
Learn a little history.
Now that is true people seem to forget the many terrorist attacks that happened before he was president.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deogol
WRONG. Terrorists have been blowing up planes and taking hostages long before Bush ever showed up in the political scene. Learn a little history.
I have learned MORE than a little history, but 'thanks' for the unsolicited critique. And here's mine for you...be a little more patient and thoughtful before you criticize someone.
Terrorists have been operating a long time. I recall terrorists taking planes hostages even in the 60s and consequently we've had baggage and carry-on checks a long time. And probably before that....
BUT the US has several times blown up chances of crippling al-Qaeda's (once in Clinton era) of becoming what it is now. And that was what I was talking about. It is the relevant item now; it is what is going on. So my comment stands. In spite of all the apologists for an incompetent administration.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
this of course leads to a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation i.e. the only way to prove that serious terrorist intent against the USA still exists is to allow the terrorists to carry out their plans. Seeing as how New York is the main terrorist target, I simply can't buy into your position.
Problem with your "position" as well as these so called "alerts" is that it does more damage than good on a number of levels.
In terms of safety they do more harm because these things lead to false positive id's by the general public and thus causing a waste of law enforcement time and resources that could be better spent tracking real terrorist.
Studies show that peoples instincts in spotting trouble are much more accurate when they are not bombarded by "Be afraid, very afraid" announcements, especially so when those announcements are based on unsubstantiated information.
If actual safety was the goal these announcements would not occur in this manner and certainly not with any frequency.
But then again safety is not the goal with shit like this announcement or even this thread now is it?
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
For anyone interested in a little reading material regarding the results and true purpose of the public announcements of unsubstantiated threats ( key word here being unsubstantiated) I offer up the following links.
Happy Reading!
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deogol
WRONG.
Terrorists have been blowing up planes and taking hostages long before Bush ever showed up in the political scene.
Learn a little history.
Yeah! Wasn't the American Revolutionary war perpetrated by a terrorist insurgency led by a bunch of radicals?
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
at risk of (again) being hammered on this subject ...
All of these opinions which attempt to de-legitimize concern over future terrorist attacks on US soil, and/or devalue the successful counter-terrorism efforts by the US gov't which have aborted terrorist attacks before they were allowed to happen, are VERY easy to make when you live in an area where the probability of a future terrorist attack is essentially zero.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
All of these opinions which attempt to de-legitimize concern over future terrorist attacks on US soil, and/or devalue the successful counter-terrorism efforts by the US gov't which have aborted terrorist attacks before they were allowed to happen, are VERY easy to make when you live in an area where the probability of a future terrorist attack is essentially zero.
Well keeping in mind that according to your side of things (meaning politically conservative/right-wing/Republican) no area of the US is or US interests is safe and we are all supposed to live in fear every minute of every day.
Additionally your side has also frequently told us if we don't buy into you fear based propaganda that we are anti-American terrorist lovers. So considering that you'll have to forgive us for thinking you are a more than just a little bit of a Chicken Little.
The really, really, sad part is that you Chicken Little/Boy who cried wolf people are the ones letting the terrorists of the world win.
Worse yet by constantly trying to pass on these false alarm alerts and even embellishing the original version ( ie saying NY dodged an attack that was never even a real or substantiated threat to begin with) you are doing the work of the terrorist for them. Not that I think that is the intent but it is the reality :(
You want to do your part to fight terrorism? First stop buying into these unsubstantiated threat alerts. Ans second, stop passing them around like candy. That will do a hell of alot more good in fighting terrorism than ANYTHING else.
They lose when we REFUSE to live in fear.
The End.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paris
Yeah! Wasn't the American Revolutionary war perpetrated by a terrorist insurgency led by a bunch of radicals?
I know you are tickling me, but there are those who really believe such things.
For them I say:
Ah. Obviously all revolutions are for the same ends and done in the same manner. Perhaps you will feel a revolution needed should they win and you have acid thrown in your face for being a harlot. (Quite common in many muslim controlled areas.) But to do so would make one a murderous terrorists. Best to cover up and know your place.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lucy in the Sky
Well keeping in mind that according to your side of things (meaning politically conservative/right-wing/Republican) no area of the US is or US interests is safe and we are all supposed to live in fear every minute of every day.
Additionally your side has also frequently told us if we don't buy into you fear based propaganda that we are anti-American terrorist lovers. So considering that you'll have to forgive us for thinking you are a more than just a little bit of a Chicken Little.
The really, really, sad part is that you Chicken Little/Boy who cried wolf people are the ones letting the terrorists of the world win.
Worse yet by constantly trying to pass on these false alarm alerts and even embellishing the original version ( ie saying NY dodged an attack that was never even a real or substantiated threat to begin with) you are doing the work of the terrorist for them. Not that I think that is the intent but it is the reality :(
You want to do your part to fight terrorism? First stop buying into these unsubstantiated threat alerts. Ans second, stop passing them around like candy. That will do a hell of alot more good in fighting terrorism than ANYTHING else.
They lose when we REFUSE to live in fear.
The End.
Yes. I prefer to be ignorant of threats and the opportunity to take steps to protect myself, family, and friends. No sense telling people thugs have been talking about something so keep an eye out about this or that. All all a bunch of hogwash and bullshit.
Here is a prediction: During Obama's administration there will be some attack that makes the world trade center a school yard fight.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deogol
.Here is a prediction: During Obama's administration there will be some attack that makes the world trade center a school yard fight.
Are you saying GW took a trillion dollars of our money and made Al-Quaeda a stronger and more effective terrorist group?
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
I believe that the terrorists are looking and planning right now, as they have been for years and still will be for years. I know something about the will of these people--well, people like them anyway. They are counting on people to relax their guard. Unless something military, social and political they will never stop. They might try next in a month, a year, ten years or a hundred years. Whomever's administration is in power at the time will NOT stop their efforts. We have awakened the sleeping lion, and he is looking for food.
That being the case, we do have a lot of things to tighten up, and social liberties should not be given up for this threat. But we have to be smart, not bureaucratic and selfish about what needs to be done. If we give away our freedoms out of fear, maybe we didn't deserve to have them in the first place.
The most socially irresponsible things we can do are to find ways to divert the money and effort we spend on security or to become paranoic about all foreigners and segregate them all.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
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Originally Posted by
Dirty Ernie
Are you saying GW took a trillion dollars of our money and made Al-Quaeda a stronger and more effective terrorist group?
In a sense he did inintentionally, because we fought the wrong war and ignored the one that would count most. Our generals seem to imply that they are stronger than they were in 2001 for example
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
^^ Deogol's prediction about the timing could well be right, but if McCain would have been elected, they same thing would happen. I don't believe the impact comparison is correct unless we stop making progress on tightening up our critical resources (shipyards, food/water supplies and visa/immigration policies as a few examples). But it will not be a Katrina-sized one.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deogol
Yes. I prefer to be ignorant of threats and the opportunity to take steps to protect myself, family, and friends.
I get where you are coming from and all but the truth is these constent unsubstantiated and FALSE "threat alerts" result in the exact opposite effect.
There is a world of difference between a substantiated threat and an unsubstantiated one.
For further explanation see --->
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Here is a prediction: During Obama's administration there will be some attack that makes the world trade center a school yard fight
agreed ... with the question being whether or not this tragedy takes place in Israel or again in New York.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Or other places like Mumbai (Bombay) India....
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
here's the results of 'unsubstantiated warnings' that aren't taken seriously ...
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
When the potential consequences of an 'unsubstantiated', but fairly specific, warning are severe, it makes a lot of sense to prepare for them and search out some greater degree of substantiation before abandoning those preparations. After all, time is on the side of the terrorists. Currently the US has very unspecific warnings, but we do know we have several specific vulnerabilities. We are not a poor country (yet) so we should tighten down those loosest things at least. This is because non-specific threats are surely out there.
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Re: It looks like New York dodged another terrorist attack ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
threlayer
When the potential consequences of an 'unsubstantiated', but fairly specific, warning are severe, it makes a lot of sense to prepare for them and search out some greater degree of substantiation before abandoning those preparations.
Thankyou for that post, threlayer.
In hindsight I see I should have added the term specific to my previous comments in addition to unsubstantiated. It is clearly discussed in my links but it has become rather obvious that the Chicken Little's didn't read a word of any of them. I guess I should not be surprised by that though. Oh well.
Another point that they are intentionally ignoring is that I NEVER said that law enforcement should ignore any warnings. Melonie is now trying to elude that I expressed that point of view but ofcourse that is patently false.
I was obviously commenting on the irresponsibility and actual danger that can result from putting out unsubstantiated media alerts and the further spreading (and in this case her even embellishing) false and or unsubstantiated "alerts" to the general public.
That concept of it being a bad idea to do such things is so old and so well known that there are even fables written about it- i.e. The Boy Who Cried Wolf and Chicken Little.
And that brings me right back to my first post in this subject thread. Why let something like being a responsible citizen get in the way of their partisan goals :sarcastic