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http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...opNews&sp=true
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^^^Only has 3 weeks left to what?, usher in the next generation and the next level of terrorism?. The blow-back from this event will felt for a long time and it won't be limitied to Isreal.
Three weeks left until Obama's inauguration, at which point the Israelis / Jews risk a pro-muslim shift in US foreign policy ...
(snip)"For far too long, Israel has allowed Palestinian terrorists in Gaza to turn the south of the country into a shooting gallery, making life increasingly intolerable for tens of thousands of Israelis.
From January 1 through November 11, according to the Foreign Ministry, a total of 1,151 rockets and 1,239 mortar rounds fired from Gaza struck southern Israel. That is an average of seven per day, every day, since the start of the year.
It also exceeds by far the combined total of rockets that have crashed into Israel in the past two years. In all of 2007, a total of 896 Palestinian rockets hit Israeli territory, after 946 did so in 2006.
And with Hamas terrorists eagerly working on expanding the range and improving the accuracy of their arsenal, the danger posed by the rocket fire will only continue to grow.
So instead of continuing to appease the assailants, now is precisely the time for Israel to storm into Gaza and put them out of commission, before the Obama administration comes to power.
In these, the waning days of the Bush presidency, Israel is far less likely to come under heavy diplomatic pressure should it launch an extensive counter-terror operation to undermine Hamas.
The next 60 days until Barack Obama's inauguration are therefore a golden window of opportunity for Israel to strike a piercing blow against Palestinian irredentism.
THIS CHANCE cannot be frittered away, particularly since the odds are that an Obama White House will be far less inclined to support bold Israeli moves in the war on terror and far more likely to press for appeasing Hamas.
Just last week, a senior Hamas official confirmed that the terror group has been holding talks for some time with Obama's advisers.
Ahmed Yousuf, political adviser to Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh, told the London-based Arabic daily Al-Hayat on November 11 that "We were in contact with a number of Obama's aides through the Internet, and later met with some of them in Gaza, but they advised us not to come out with any statements, as they may have a negative effect on his election campaign."
Yousuf described the contacts with Obama's aides as "ongoing," said he is still in touch with them, and went on to suggest that Obama's Middle East policy "will differ from that of his predecessor George W. Bush." (snip)
at any rate, it would appear that things are escalating ...
(snip)"GAZA (Reuters) - Israel launched air strikes on Gaza for a second day on Sunday, piling pressure on Hamas after killing more than 270 people in one of the bloodiest days in 60 years of conflict between the Palestinians and the Jewish state.
Israeli leaders said the campaign was a response to almost daily rocket and mortar fire by Gaza militants that intensified after Hamas, an Islamist group in charge of the coastal enclave Israel quit in 2005, ended a six-month ceasefire a week ago.
"Right now, we are not considering an end to the fighting," Israeli Cabinet Secretary Oved Yehezkel said on Israel Radio. "We have the time, patience and means ... to return life in southern Israel to normal."
Under clear morning skies, an Israeli air strike destroyed the headquarters of Hamas's al-Aqsa television stations, which continued broadcasting from an unknown location. Israeli aircraft also attacked a training facility for Hamas fighters.
Palestinian militants continued to fire rockets across the border, including one that police said landed in open territory about 30 km (18 miles) inside southern Israel. No casualties were reported.
Dozens of Israeli armored vehicles massed along the Gaza border for a possible ground invasion and the U.N. Security Council called early on Sunday for a halt to the violence."(snip)
^^Great Mel, so what are the Israelis going to accomplish by this?. Are the Palestinians going to wake up from this bloodbath and say, "hey, in face of this overwhelming power, lets stop our fight against oppression and just be docile". Of course not, all that is going to happen from this current action is that the hundreds of milititants killed will be replaced by thousands of militants who until this point were moderate or even anti-Hamas. That and because of the extreme overkill on the part of the Israelis the level of the conflict will be vastly raised and probably will not be able to be contained.
I am very tired of hearing this. Think for one second, just because policy isn't 100% favored to Israel doesn't mean it's pro-Muslim. There is a place in the middle called balanced policy. This is the core of the problem, this tremendously biased policy that only exists because the US allows it to makes the Palestinian suffer terribly and gives them no recourse except to be docile, suffer indignities and let their land be stolen. Well alot of people when under the gun will do that, but many will not play by those rules and they will fight back with the only weapons they have- suicide bombers and crude rockets.Quote:
Three weeks left until Obama's inauguration, at which point the Israelis / Jews risk a pro-muslim shift in US foreign policy
Your outlook to me seems the same as those geniuses who told us the Iraqis would welome us as liberators and the rest of the Middle East would fall like dominos in a wave of US styled democracy. How's that plan coming along?.
well, the 'tin foil hat' crowd would tell you that Israel's primary goal remains the destruction of imminent nuclear weapons capability by surrounding states. It would appear that Iran is now 'playing along' just as certain Israeli interests had hoped. The 'tin foil hat' crowd further speculates that such an impending Israeli attack upon Iranian nuclear facilities will be carried out with the tacit approval of 'non-Persian' surrounding states (particularly Saudi and Egypt) as well as the tacit approval of the GWB administration ... which explains why such an evolution must take place and be completed prior to January 20th !Quote:
^^Great Mel, so what are the Israelis going to accomplish by this?. Are the Palestinians going to wake up from this bloodbath and say, "hey, in face of this overwhelming power, lets stop our fight against oppression and just be docile". Of course not, all that is going to happen from this current action is that the hundreds of milititants killed will be replaced by thousands of militants who until this point were moderate or even anti-Hamas. That and because of the extreme overkill on the part of the Israelis the level of the conflict will be vastly raised and probably will not be able to be contained
(snip)"TEHRAN, Dec 28 (Reuters) - Iran's Supreme Leader issued a religious decree to Muslims around the world on Sunday, ordering them to defend Palestinians in Gaza against Israeli attacks "in any way possible", state television reported.
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei also declared Monday a day of public mourning in Iran after Israel killed more than 280 Palestinians in two days of air strikes on Gaza.
"All Palestinian combatants and all the Islamic world's pious people are obliged to defend the defenceless women, children and people in Gaza in any way possible," Khamenei said.
"Whoever is killed in this legitimate defence, is considered a martyr," he said in a statement.
A religious decree is an official statement by a ranking religious leader that commands Muslims to carry out its message. While there is no religious and legal force behind it, Khamenei is respected by many Iranian and non-Iranian Shi'ites.
Iran refuses to recognise Israel, which accuses Tehran of supplying Hamas Islamists with weapons. Iran denies the claim, saying it only provides moral support to the group.
Israeli leaders said their campaign was a response to almost daily rocket and mortar fire by Gaza militants that intensified after Hamas ended a six-month ceasefire a week ago.
Khamenei criticised some Arab governments for their lack of response towards the Israeli raids.
"The even greater catastrophe is the encouraging silence of some Arab governments who claim to be Islamic," he said, also accusing the West of being indifferent to the killing of Palestinians.
Khamenei, Iran's most powerful authority, urged Muslim countries to punish Israeli leaders.
"The officials of this regime ... should be tried and punished for this crime by Islamic governments."
Khamenei's remarks were interpreted by some oil traders as a hint that Iran was calling on oil-producing Arab countries to disrupt energy shipments to Israel.
The West accuses Iran of covertly trying to build nuclear bomb, a charge rejected by Tehran.
But Israel's insistence that the Islamic state must not be allowed to develop atomic weapons has fuelled speculation that the Jewish state, widely assumed to have the Middle East's only nuclear arsenal, could mount its own pre-emptive strike."(snip)
In Iraq, rather well actually - other than the Iranian / Syrian agitators who continue sneaking into Iraq, agitating unrest between Sunni and Shia, and 'posing' as the voice of all Iraqis toward certain western media. In fact I just received an update from a relative who returned from Iraq on 96 hour holiday leave.Quote:
Your outlook to me seems the same as those geniuses who told us the Iraqis would welome us as liberators and the rest of the Middle East would fall like dominos in a wave of US styled democracy. How's that plan coming along?
~
Axelrod on a sunday news show today says that Obama will not speak further (to the public) about this until the inaugration. President-elect Barack Obama, who supported Israel’s right to defend itself during a visit in July, has spoken with Rice and will continue to consult with her, David Axelrod, an Obama adviser, said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” today.
“When bombs are raining down on your citizens, there is an urge to put an end to that,” Axelrod, paraphrasing Obama’s position in July, said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.”
I guess my question is why the cease-fire was allowed to terminate without further negotiations that would continue it in some other terms or form. Who didn't do their part here? Because since that time the rocket lobs into Israel started big time again. However, although I don't know too much about the recent ceasefire, BOTH sides have historically been intransigent when it came to following terms of almost all previous ceasfires. Looks to me like Hamas will have to be taken out, but that will be disastrous for all in the end. This will not end in another couple of days of bombing. To do what Israel wants, they will have to use ground forces to invade, and it will be another Baghdad.
Hamas should not have been voted to power because they are immovable in their outlook, and therefore not a real political power. But here we are. Sad.
What oppression? Israel pulled out of Gaza. The Palestinians held elections. Israel is completely and totally willing to let them live in their own state with their own government. The problem is that the Palestinians elected a group of terrorists to lead their government whose only goal is to destroy Israel. Is Israel just supposed to sit back and say, "oh that's ok, we don't want to oppress you, just keep firing rockets"? I'm tired of hearing that the Israeli's should show restraint and that their responses are disproportionate. A group of terrorists flew 3 planes into 3 buildings on American soil 8 years ago and killed thousands of people. We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan killing people over it. Bush goes on TV (and this is regardless of whether or not you like Bush) and talks about a war that was brought to our shores. In 2001 all people could talk about getting the bastards responsible. So explain to me why you feel Israel is wrong in the amount of force it's using to retaliate when it was perfectly fine for the U.S to invade TWO countries. It is only by people who have no idea what it's like to live in that country who think they can say Israel is wrong. You can only sit here, IN AMERICA, and pass a judgement like that. Do as I say, not as I do, right?
^^^ well it is the same sort of 'saying one thing but thinking another thing' that now has many Jews / Israelis deeply concerned about Obama taking a highly conciliatory stance re Palestine / Iran / Syria after merely giving 'lip service' to AIPAC.
(snip)"Obama's anti-Israel friends
Ali Abunimah is a well-known Chicago-based activist for Palestinian causes. He has a harshly anti-Israel attitude. He has also written that he had met Obama about half a dozen times at various Palestinian and Arab-American events, including a May 1998 community fundraiser at which the late Edward Said was the keynote speaker (there is a photo of Said with Senator Obama and his wife).
Edward Said was a severe critic of Israel; he developed a school of study about the Middle East based on denunciation of so-called "Orientalism" that has influenced many Middle Eastern professors to take an anti-Israel view. The entire field of Middle Eastern studies has been so corrupted that Congress has raised an alarm about federal funding going to professors with an anti-American, anti-Israel agenda. These are the ideological heirs of Edward Said.
Abunimah recently wrote an article critical of Obama's very recent and somewhat lukewarm outreach to the Israel's supporters. He wrote that years ago Obama had been forthright in his criticism of American foreign policy and had called for an even-handed approach to the Palestinian-Israel conflict. But Abunimah detected a change as Obama began his Senate run. He met Obama at an event that occurred in the midst of the Senator's primary campaign for Senate. Abunimah writes,
Obama said, "Hey, I'm sorry I haven't said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I'm hoping when things calm down I can be more up front." He referred to my activism, including columns I was contributing to the Chicago Tribune critical of Israeli and US policy, "Keep up the good work!"
Could Obama's outreach to the pro-Israel community during his Presidential run just be a reprise of his actions during his Senate campaign? True, Abunimah may not be the most reliable source, but the picture of Obama together with one of Israel's harshest critics in America, Edward Said, gives scant reason for comfort regarding Obama's true beliefs."(snip)
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Israel certainly does and has oppressed the Palestinians for decades. Even is quieter times I doubt you would want to live under those conditions. And if so, it is because you just don't understand it
This is true, but that doesn't mean there are no other ways to deal with them. Unless you think it will win your party more seats in the Knesset.Quote:
The problem is that the Palestinians elected a group of terrorists to lead their government whose only goal is to destroy Israel...
No one said it was 'perfectly fine' to start the Iraq war, which anyway was completely different. US is cooperating with the Afghanistan government and trying to with the Pakistani government. That is not any kind of analogy for this topic.Quote:
So explain to me why you feel Israel is wrong in the amount of force it's using to retaliate when it was perfectly fine for the U.S to invade TWO countries. It is only by people who have no idea what it's like to live in that country who think they can say Israel is wrong....
Agreed. The attack last year against Hezbollah in south Lebanon is widely regarded as a policy failure inside and outside Israel. Many Hamas-hating Palestinians (because of their 'no peace' outlook and integration of their outposts with the civilian population for shielding) may join with Hamas in trying to repulse invaders. Why doesn't Israel set up buffer zones abound Gaza as the have done on the Golan Heights? What Israel giveth Israel can taketh away.
Lots to say but little time to say it.
Not quite the people in Gaza are cut off from the rest of the Palestinians, they are completely reliant on Israel for all necessities (which are frequently withheld) Here are some reports from less than a month ago:
AFP/File – Palestinian children study by the light of a lantern in Gaza City on November 28, 2008. Gaza's sole power plant was shut down on Sunday for the second time in less than a week after Israel again halted fuel supplies to the Hamas-ruled territory, a Palestinian official said.
posted on Nov 27th, 2008 Israel "deny[ies] [Gazans] . . . the right to food, water, shelter, security, and dignity . . . imposes draconian sanctions on [Gazans] for democratically electing a government not to its liking . . . seals a heavily populated territory of 1.5 million people so that no person can enter or leave without permission, fishermen cannot fish in their own waters, and world food aid cannot be delivered to the starving population . . . [and] shuts off fuel, water, and electricity and then rains down on the people [of Gaza] bombs and artillery fire."
No, the problem is that the Palestinians should be free to elect whoever they want, then you deal with them. This way they feel empowered. When they feel they have no power, they resort to desperation- suicide bombers and rockets. Better to let them have the power, let Hamas rule, don't interfere and when Hamas is incompetent they get thrown out by Palestinians, the minute the US or Israel does anything to get Hamas out, the people stand behind it and they forget about how imcompetent Hamas is because they are more concerned about the foreigners trying to impose their will on them.Quote:
The problem is that the Palestinians elected a group of terrorists to lead their government whose only goal is to destroy Israel.
No again, if Israel truly wants peace it should:Quote:
Is Israel just supposed to sit back and say, "oh that's ok, we don't want to oppress you, just keep firing rockets"?
1. Immediately cease all land theft and new settlement construction
2. Allow Palestine full statehood
3. Return all Palestinian funds that have been siezed
If when these policies are inacted the bombs or bombings continue, Israel should do targeted assinations with very little collateral damage.
Once again way off, One Israeli was killed by the recent rocket barage. To drop hundreds of tons of bombs on an urban area in response is ridiculous by any stretch of the imagination. Many in Israel are even aghast at the level of response. Close to 300 dead and 700 wounded.Quote:
I'm tired of hearing that the Israeli's should show restraint and that their responses are disproportionate.
Close to 5,000 civilians were killed in the 9/11 attack. Big difference between 5,000 and 1.Quote:
A group of terrorists flew 3 planes into 3 buildings on American soil 8 years ago and killed thousands of people. We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan killing people over it.
It is not perfectly fine the for US to invate two countries, it was perfectly fine for the US along with an international force to invade Afghanastan after they refused to hand over the culprits. As for invading Iraq, Bush, Cheney, Rove, Wolfowitz, Feith and a bunch more should be tried as war criminalsQuote:
So explain to me why you feel Israel is wrong in the amount of force it's using to retaliate when it was perfectly fine for the U.S to invade TWO countries.
I happen not to live in the US and in fact the country I am in has in the past been invaded. As for passing judgement, the raw facts in the below link tell enough of a story.Quote:
It is only by people who have no idea what it's like to live in that country who think they can say Israel is wrong. You can only sit here, IN AMERICA, and pass a judgement like that. Do as I say, not as I do, right?
That's actually true ... TODAY ... now that Israel has blasted some 40 tunnels between Gaza and Egypt. As to why the Palestinians chose to bring arms through those tunnels rather than fuel is of course another story !Quote:
Not quite the people in Gaza are cut off from the rest of the Palestinians, they are completely reliant on Israel for all necessities
arguably, such freedom is a two way street ... and now that they are absent major international pressure the Israelis ARE dealing with them !!! It is arguably just as likely that the Israelis will also deal with the Iranian nuclear threat before major international pressure returns (i.e. Obama takes office).Quote:
No, the problem is that the Palestinians should be free to elect whoever they want, then you deal with them
^^ Bush has allowed the Israelis freedom all this time. I still wonder why they chose this time, unless they believe (1) Hamas is getting ready for a much bigger attach with longer range missiles; (2) Obama will try to keep them more under 'control', (3) elections are coming up and Likkud Party's (Netanyahu's) opponents want to appear stronger. Hamas' missiles are short range and are poorly contolled/aimed, so they do little damage (unless you are one of the few people that reside too close to Gaza and have gotten scared/hit). But that's all water over the dam now.
I reviewed Arctic's posts on http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/sho...93#post1753993
I don't think Bush is a war criminal, though probably he should have been impeached, but I think he was misled by biased staff, he is not far-thinking enough for a president, he is arrogant and will not listen to outside opinions, and he has appointed only YES-men. In short the USA was wrong (stupid) for electing him in the first place. But I don't think he should be executed. Now Rove, well....
Israel will not exist in four years. It will be an incredibly dangerous and irrational world.
Yes, well that's great. The only problem is unless they want to murder pretty much every Palestinian in Gaza, this strategy is not going to work, as occupations never do. It will however raise the bar and the frequency and scale of terrorism directed towards Israel and toward the U.S.(those are U.S. F-16's dropping American made ordinance on civilians over there). So in 3-20 years when the Palestinian version of Bin Laden takes his vengeance for his family getting killed these last couple of days you won't have to wonder why and ask "why do they hate us?".
Also when the day comes when the U.S. isn't top dog in the weapons department (maybe not far off, look what happened to Russia's military when the economy collapsed) Israel and the U.S. are going to have a big day of reckoning. Israel is able to pull all this crap, the oppression and the massacre only because the US not only stands by but actually blocks any fairness or justice being metted out by the rest of the world. All those countries are going to be looking to make up for alot of years and alot of injustice and payback is a bitch.
I'm not anti or pro Israel or anti or pro Palestinian. I am a cause and effects guy. And the bottom line is that if the current policies continue three things are certain, Israel is going to experience more rockets and terrorism, the Palestinians will continue to suffer and incur many deaths and the US will become an even bigger target for terrorism. You hawks can rah, rah all you want but in the end you are just cheering your own destruction because that kind of injustice and violence always comes home to roost.
Much better if Israel acts like the modern civilized country it's supposed to be and ceases new settlements, gets out of the occupied areas, turn over financial and management responsibilies of the Palestinians to the other Arab countries and basically has nothing to do with the Palestinians. Then if the Palestinians act up, it will be very clear who the culprit is and world opinion will be on the side of the Israelis for once and you can have an international force handle any military action if necessary. As it is, it's pretty impossible for Israel to get world sympathy when the Palestinians launch crude rockets and blow themselves up while Israel is seizing land, denying freedom and in every way oppressing an impoverished people. If the above solutions were imlpemented, probably 75% or more of the anti- US sentiment from the Muslim world would dissappear overnight. Militants would be leaving terrorist orginizations in droves as for most of them their primary reason for being involved would no longer exist. It's the inequity in the graphs and data below and dozens more like them that drive a majority of the extremists.
have been killed by Palestinians and have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. ()
Israel currently has built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians on Israeli land. ()
have been demolished by Palestinians and have been demolished by Israel since 1967. ()
I could agree with this, but it will be his job to prove he was too dumb to realize what was happening. The bad "intelligence" was cooked and deliberately manipulated to get some very nefarious people their ends. If Bush wasn't involved, a lighter sentence but something has to happen or the idea of justice for the entire world won't be valid for a few generations. The architects of this though deserve war criminal status. All their wealth siezed except for enough to pay for a lifetime incarceration. The rest of the money goes to charities in Iraq and they go to a foreign prison and do hard labor all the way till the end.
the 'tin foil hat' crowd would point out that, with Obama's potential anti-Israel outreach to Iran policy on deck, the opinions of Americans or British or Russia or any other countries throughout the world really no longer matter.
All that truly matters now is the opinions of Israelis in a position of leadership.
your prediction is very dependent on the results of Israel's actions over the next few weeks ... in particular Israel's ability to bomb the Iranian nuclear weapons program out of existance.Quote:
Israel will not exist in four years. It will be an incredibly dangerous and irrational world
Obama's 'outreach' to Iran has got to be more effective than boycotts and worrying about it aloud with other world leaders. How well has that worked? About as well as it did with Red China, I'm thinking. You can't deal with a recalcitrant adversary by not dealing with them. You have to be creative and there is always some way of 'getting to yes.' You have to know your enemy to find some common ground and ther is always some common ground that can be expanded into a biger agreement. Now Abumenijad may not be that person to deal with, but if you start talking at some level, eventually you will find someone in power who will find advantage in talking and dealing with you.
Pouting and threatening military action is just juvenile and shows one is just spoiled by always getting what one wants. And that's just what Bush and his cronies have been doing so far. So how successful has that been. You cant just keep going over the same things for ever with no progress and thinkone day magically there will be; that's just immature wishful thinking.
You have to have a link open to negotiate. That's just the way things work in reality. Read the book Getting to Yes by Usry et al.
Realistically speaking, that is more than a bit of a stretch, to say the least.
This is a bunch of Israeli saber rattling (sadly resulting in lots of Palestinian civilian deaths) but it is being done because of the upcoming elections. It's a show of force for purely political purposes.
Two things, first off Mel, just as a favor can you stop saying 'tin foil hat' crowd, it's gotten really annoying.
Second, for the 3rd or 4th time now- balanced policy that doesn't happen to favor Israel 100% is not anti-Israel policy. In fact it's probably the best way to solving or minimizing the dispute. If fairness is instilled, the desperation level and animosity level will go down dramatically. Look what happened in Northern Ireland.
Just so you know, when Melonie says "tin foil hat crowd" she is referring to herself. She hides behind the infamous TFHC by saying that those aren't her views, she's just putting it out there. She jsut so happens to completely agree with everything they say.
Your second point is spot on. What Israel is doing right now is horrible and I'm not sure why the US has to back them 100% no matter what. They're bombing people's houses. They're bombing mosques. They're bombing the fucking University.
Having a stance against Israel's policies and actions is not the same thing as being anti-Israel or anti-Semite (or pro-Hamas) and the sooner the US realizes this and stops sucking Israel's dick, the better that region will be.
well, if you want specific names and specific content, try Israeli pundit Bill Levinson and British General Harris ...
(snip)"Israel: Heed Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris
by Bill Levinson
Now that Israel has FINALLY retaliated against Hamas for Hamas’ ongoing litany of mindless violence and breaches of regional peace, it needs to heed the advice of the British air marshal who supervised the bombing campaigns of the Second World War. With regard to justification of the bombing campaign in the first place, just replace “Nazis” with “Palestinians” (easy enough) and the names of the Allied cities with those of the Israeli cities at which the Palestinians have fired rockets.
The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
With regard to the advisability of using Israeli ground troops (who would suffer heavily in combat with guerrillas–house to house fighting is a combat soldier’s worst nightmare):
I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier.
The whole of Gaza is similarly not worth the bones of one IDF soldier, if bombing the place into rubble will end the conflict without ground combat. Civilian casualties are admittedly regrettable, but they are the responsibility of the Hamas terrorists who hide among civilians (often with the civilians’ consent and encouragement, because they support Hamas’ agenda of terror). Harris had some good advice about this too:
The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive…should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilized life throughout Germany.
It should be emphasized that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories.
A similar bombing campaign by the IAF should similarly traumatize the population of Gaza to such an extent that the dazed and vacant-eyed survivors will never again think of lifting a finger to Israel, or being caught in possession of so much as a model rocket (let alone a Katyusha). Even if some might still be inclined to commit violence, they will not have the means to commit it because they will be struggling to find enough to eat in the rubble.
The above may sound harsh, but most normal people learn in kindergarten not to hit other people unless they want to be hit back. Most adults know that you don’t shoot at other people (even in the absence of police) unless you want them to shoot back at you. As stated by Harris, Nazi Germany did not understand this, or did not care, so England turned Dresden into a giant crematorium. Hamas clearly does not understand this either, so Israel is 100 percent justified in turning Gaza into a giant crematorium if that is what it takes to make the rockets and mortar shells stop."(snip)
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and another actual name is Professor Michael Oren of Georgetown University ...
(snip)"That was the unavoidable lesson of the failure of the Oslo peace process, which ended in the fall of 2000 with Israel's acceptance of President Bill Clinton's proposal for near-total withdrawal from East Jerusalem and the territories. The Palestinians responded with five years of terror.
Yet much of the international community blamed Israel for the violence and repeatedly condemned its efforts at self-defense. The experience left a deep wound in the Israeli psyche. It intimidated Israeli leaders from taking security measures liable to be denounced by the United Nations and the European Union, or worse, result in sanctions against the Jewish state.
One consequence was an Israeli reluctance to respond to periodic Hezbollah provocations following Israel's unilateral withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000. This hesitancy allowed the Shiite terror organization to amass a rocket arsenal with the proclaimed intent of devastating Israel's population centers.
Finally, when Hezbollah unleashed its weapons in July 2006, Israel was widely accused of responding disproportionately. It was pressured into prematurely ending its defensive operations in Lebanon, and compelled to accept an international "peacekeeping" force that has permitted Hezbollah to rearm far beyond its prewar levels.
Israelis are now asking themselves whether their Lebanon nightmare is about to repeat itself in Gaza. The parallels are indeed striking. As in Lebanon, Israel in 2005 unilaterally withdrew to its international border with Gaza and received, instead of security, a regime dedicated to its destruction. The thousands of rockets and mortar shells subsequently fired on Israeli neighborhoods represented more than a crude attempt to kill and terrorize civilians -- they were expressions of a genocidal intent.
Israelis across the political spectrum agreed that the state had the right, indeed the duty, to protect its people. But one question remained: Would the international community consent?
That question grew urgent in the days before Dec. 19, when the tenuous cease-fire between Israel and Hamas expired. Nearly 300 missiles landed in Israel, paralyzing much of the southern part of the country. Yet Israeli leaders held their fire.
Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni flew to Cairo to implore Egyptian leaders to urge restraint on Hamas, and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told viewers of Al-Arabiyah Television that Israel had no interest in a military confrontation. If Israel was guilty of acting disproportionately, it was in its willingness to seek any means, even at the risk of its citizens' lives, to resolve the crisis diplomatically.
Yet the U.N. Security Council abstained from condemning Hamas and convened only after Israel resolved to act. The U.N.'s hypocrisy, together with growing media criticism of Israel, is reinforcing Israeli concerns that territorial concessions, whether unilateral or negotiated, will only compromise the country's security and curtail its ability to respond to attack. This fear is compounded when Israelis consider withdrawals from the West Bank, which is within easy rocket range of its major population and industrial centers.
Gaza is the test case. Much more is at stake than merely the military outcome of Israel's operation. The issue, rather, is Israel's ability to restore its deterrence power and uphold the principle that its citizens cannot be targeted with impunity."(snip)
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