-
New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
It has to go to a Conference because the Assembly and Senate versions have differing definitions of "rich". But taxes on higher earners are definitely going up.
Meanwhile, a private gun club, a yoga federation, a brick museum and the Soccer Hall of Fame in Oneonta will all continue to receive state funding. A private gun club ? The Soccer H O F ?
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Stoner
It has to go to a Conference because the Assembly and Senate versions have differing definitions of "rich". But taxes on higher earners are definitely going up.
Meanwhile, a private gun club, a yoga federation, a brick museum and the Soccer Hall of Fame in Oneonta will all continue to receive state funding. A private gun club ? The Soccer H O F ?
What would NY be without the brick museum? In better financial shape! NC has the equally ridiculous state funded teapot museum. Unfortunately, state taxpayer funding of silliness knows no boundaries.
Z
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Last chance to buy a McMansion in Connecticut or Pennsylvania !!!
The NY income tax rate on those earning $500k or more is set to increase to something like 9.65% on top of a separate 3% NY City income tax. This will prompt remaining brokers / bankers / corporate types to change their tax address in a big hurry ! However the NY tax hikes and fee hikes aren't confined to the brokers / bankers / corporate types earning the big bucks.
(snip)From bottled water, to beer, cigars and electricity, the cost could be going up for all of these and more.
Governor David Paterson said the new state budget is shared sacrifice, but its a tough sell.
If you live in New York City and suburbs there is only one thing you can do in reaction to the new state budget – gasp.
"This is not a happy budget," Senate Majority Leader Malcolm Smith, D-Queens, said.
No kidding. Critics said there are so many taxes and fee hikes the average family of four in our area can expect to shell out an additional $5,000 -- for now. (snip)
from
Personally speaking, all I can say is that I'm even happier that I'm now south of the border !!!
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
Last chance to buy a McMansion in Connecticut or Pennsylvania !!!
The NY income tax rate on those earning $500k or more is set to increase to something like 9.65% on top of a separate 3% NY City income tax. This will prompt remaining brokers / bankers / corporate types to change their tax address in a big hurry ! However the NY tax hikes and fee hikes aren't confined to the brokers / bankers / corporate types earning the big bucks.
(snip)From bottled water, to beer, cigars and electricity, the cost could be going up for all of these and more.
Governor David Paterson said the new state budget is shared sacrifice, but its a tough sell.
If you live in New York City and suburbs there is only one thing you can do in reaction to the new state budget – gasp.
"This is not a happy budget," Senate Majority Leader Malcolm Smith, D-Queens, said.
No kidding. Critics said there are so many taxes and fee hikes the average family of four in our area can expect to shell out an additional $5,000 -- for now. (snip)
from
http://wcbstv.com/local/ny.state.budget.2.971103.html
Personally speaking, all I can say is that I'm even happier that I'm now south of the border !!!
You got out while the going was good, BUT - Watch Out for Obamanite plans to reach out and grab money from "Tax Exiles" like y-self. They're just talking about it for now but where there's a will there's a way when it comes to the Gov't getting it's hands on OPM.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zofia
What would NY be without the brick museum? In better financial shape! NC has the equally ridiculous state funded teapot museum. Unfortunately, state taxpayer funding of silliness knows no boundaries.
Z
Everybody knows the "Brick" Museum belongs in North Carolina where they make more bricks than any other state. And the "Cheese" Museum belongs in Wisconsin. It's "only" $170 million in "member items" but it demonstrates the mentality of the dolts in Albany. We have dozens of these little cultural and other treasures that nobody bothers to visit. If the private sector can't or won't fund them then let them close. Even worse are these private clubs and organizations that get State funds.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
You got out while the going was good, BUT - Watch Out for Obamanite plans to reach out and grab money from "Tax Exiles" like y-self. They're just talking about it for now but where there's a will there's a way when it comes to the Gov't getting it's hands on OPM.
Ah yes ... EXCEPT ... the US gov't will have a far easier time 'closing the barn door' on future US moneys being taken out of the country, versus finding and attempting to claw back US moneys that have already left !!! Remember the Bloomberg story that I posted last Christmas time reporting on the noted rush by 'rich' Americans to open offshore accounts and export some portion of their money before the end of last year ? In other words, 2009 tax laws could still be changed (retroactively) right up to the end of this year to severely tax moneys leaving the USA, but 2008 tax laws have already been cast in stone and that money has already left the country.
As to the US gov't attempting to identify and tax the EARNINGS from moneys already deposited / invested outside of the USA, I agree that the US could make major new attempts along these lines. However, as proven by the recent sale by UBS of ALL of it's financial branches within US borders, such new attempts are not likely to meet with much success ... as long as the offshore financial institutions do not operate branches within US borders that would in turn subject them to some form of direct US jurisdiction / leverage.
Put another way, UBS has decided that the bank's earnings from the (anonymous) swiss accounts of 'rich' US customers is worth more in terms of overall corporate profits than the bank's potential earnings from all of its retail banking operations within the USA !!! You might want to let that thought 'percolate' for a while ... i.e. the amount of 'rich' Americans' money / earnings that is already effectively beyond the reach of the US gov't now that the Swiss gov't has reconstructed the 'wall of secrecy' that requires actual proof of wrongdoing before financial information on accounts held by US customers will be divulged. Now imagine how much MORE difficult a time the US gov't will have with offshore banks in other countries that, unlike Switzerland, do NOT have anti-terrorism financial information sharing treaties with the USA !!!
~
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
It's not just NYC. Illinois plans to raise taxes on those starting at about $30,000. Apparently in Illinois $30,000 is considered "rich". Meanwhile they plan on expanding the state welfare system so MORE illegals can be qualified. Illinois likes to waste money on corrupt politicians (both parties) and wasteful spending. They give a lot to the museums, and in return the museums charge almost $20 per person. I'm seriously considering moving to Indiana next door to save on these taxes. After working in Illinois government and seeing how much they waste, this state disgusts me.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
^^^ and California has also been haggling over the earnings thresholds and increased tax rates that will soon be enacted on THEIR 'rich' residents ... with the definition of 'rich' being steadily shifted toward lower and lower earnings levels.
Ultimately, all of these very 'blue' states have the same problem ... their welfare and medicaid expenditures are steadily rising, their 'low income' populations are steadily rising, yet their 'rich' residents are being given ever stronger motivation to move out of the state since their taxes are being increased to pay for all of that medicaid and welfare spending. This is going to have MAJOR consequences in the future. Again consider what the difference in state tax rates really means. For example, the difference in top tax rates between New York and Connecticut is 9% versus 5%. For somebody earning 1/2 million a year, moving across the Connecticut border and commuting to work in NY would result in a $20,000 per year difference in 'after tax' income !!! That's enough money to make a 30 year mortgage payment on a new McMansion !!! Same situation already exists in California versus Nevada (which has 0% state income tax versus 10% in California), where moving out of California respresents a $50,000 per year difference in 'after tax' income.
~
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
duhhh ... it seems that the civil service union that has been promoting tax increases on the 'rich' in New York just figured out that two NY schoolteachers who are married will also be subjected to the tax increase !!! Similar story in New Jersey and many other states, which are attempting to balance their budgets by increasing taxes (or excluding tax deductions / exemptions) on residents who earn as little as $75k per year !
Pandora's box is now wide open toward all manner of tax increases affecting those that earn far less than Obama's $250k per year definition of 'rich' ...
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
duhhh ... it seems that the civil service union that has been promoting tax increases on the 'rich' in New York just figured out that two NY schoolteachers who are married will also be subjected to the tax increase !!! Similar story in New Jersey and many other states, which are attempting to balance their budgets by increasing taxes (or excluding tax deductions / exemptions) on residents who earn as little as $75k per year !
Pandora's box is now wide open toward all manner of tax increases affecting those that earn far less than Obama's $250k per year definition of 'rich' ...
http://www.realclearmarkets.com/arti..._come_aft.html
On top of everything else, the math doesn't work. The so-called "rich' had a lousy 2008 and increasing taxes on them will NOT raise anything near to the sums needed. Add in, the many voluntary "tax exiles" who will simply relocate to another state OR do the necessary to establish Legal Residence in a low tax state like Florida and the projected revenues go down even more.
In New York, New Jersey, California and others , the essential problem is the refusal of state legislatures to cut spending to reflect lower tax revenues resulting from the recession. They've also let themselves be seduced into taking Federal bail-out money that they will be obligated to raise by themselves in the out years. In other words, they will be obligated to spend "X" amount of dollars on "Y" program WITHOUT Federal funds.
Additionally a lot of folks are finding out how much it costs to be "rich". Own a house ? Here's your bill for property taxes; school taxes; water and sewer assessments; utility bills with all their hidden taxes; telephone taxes; Cable T.V. taxes etc.etc.
Drive a car ? Registration, license fees, Inspection Fee, Insurance ( taxes included ) gasoline taxes; hazrdous waste and disposal fees ( for oil changes and new tires) plus all the tolls you get to pay etc.etc.
Wanna go hunting ? Hunter's license plus a bunch of other fees especialy if you hunt in a State Park or Forest.
How about a vacation ? Airline taxes; hotel room taxes; sales taxes; customs duties and import taxes; passport fees etc.etc. Driving instead ? See "Drive a car" supra. Just going to the beach ? Beach badges and parking.
Want to protect what you have ? Home security systems, gun licenses, guard dogs and in some communities, an assessment to pay for the Private Security Service.
Want to keep a reasonable portion of what YOU worked for ? You'll have to pay for a good accountant and maybe a good financial planner and/or tax lawyer.
I know, I know; "cry you a river" right ? But I'm only talking about the Middle Class in many areas. Couples making maybe $200,000 jointly. Singles making that or even less.
History has repeatedly shown that when the tax burden in a particular state gets too onerous, those that can move; do move. Young, highly educated earners leave in droves. We've seen it in New York in the 1970's and will see it again. We've seen it in N.J. under McGreedy and Corzine and we've certainly seen plenty of it in "Kaleefornya" under "Grayout" Davis and "Ahhnolt". The best recent example is the "brain drain" in Michigan. Even allowing for auto industry dislocation, there has been a mass exodus of better educated, higher earning younger people packing up and leaving.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
^^^ following up, all of these 'stealth taxes' and 'fee taxes' are also flat rate i.e. they cost a poor person (nearly) the same amount as they cost a 'rich' person. Of course the 'poorest' don't have to worry about the affect of these taxes since they have public housing benefits, they have gov't assistance in paying utility bills etc.
This leads to a scenario where the standard of living achievable by an unemployed 'poor' person who is eligible for social welfare benefits does not decline, but the standard of living achievable by an unskilled 'working class' person who is not eligible for social welfare benefits declines noticeably. In essence this creates a strong 'moral hazard' for unskilled 'working class' Americans to simply stop trying. In combination with the strong impetus for high earning people to 'vote with their feet' i.e. relocate to a different state / country with far lower effective tax rates, this creates a steadily growing state / local gov't spending requirement that must be shouldered by a steadily shrinking pool of state taxpayers.
Also agreed (as discussed in other threads) that the Obama stimulus package does indeed force states to institute uniform unemployment benefits which are often far more generous than those currently offered by the state ... benefits which will run out of stimulus money assistance in 2011 thus further increasing the tax burden on taxpaying state residents and businesses.
At some point, when faced with a mandate to balance their budgets versus continuing to pay for social welfare benefits and public sector employees, states are going to be faced with the prospect of bankruptcy. This could very well result in drastic reductions in social welfare benefit payments, as well drastic reductions in public sector employment levels (i.e. cops, firemen, teachers, sanitation workers etc.) at the very same time. Needless to say, this could be an extremely 'volatile' combination !
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Well... it is always easier to tax 'the rich' because the majority believe that it will not affect them. Later they can lower the threshold for what 'rich' is. (Always remember that the federal income tax was just a 'tempory' tax of 2% to pay for WWI...)
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFMNH44
Well... it is always easier to tax 'the rich' because the majority believe that it will not affect them. Later they can lower the threshold for what 'rich' is. (Always remember that the federal income tax was just a 'tempory' tax of 2% to pay for WWI...)
Actually, our modern personal income tax was started in 1913 with the passing of the 16th Amendment, but there were previous PI taxes going to the Civil War (which was supposedtemporary). During WW1, the top was raised to 77%.
If you want to see what happens when you 'tax the rich', look no further then our failed Luxury Tax. 'The rich' cut back, bought foreign yachts (luxury tax exempt), and it cost more to collect then they ever took in.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
At least some good came of New York's tax increase on the rich:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...augh_sa-1.html
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
15 shows in NYC isn't really a resident. He was already gone. As an aside, over the last few years, people I know have left Cali, and taken their businesses with them. Cali's loss is someone elses gain.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
And how is this bad?
I would much rather the well-to-do have their tax rates go up than have them increased on the nearly poor. Unless I were one of the few rich! How much do their votes count?
I would also hope for real tax simplification. Now that's also a real pipe-dream.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
^^^ voting with their feet counts when the City of New York attempts to balance next year's budget. If NYC loses $100k in tax revenue, and NY State loses $1 million in tax revenue, because Rush Limbaugh closes up the NYC broadcasting studio he uses 15 days per year, that same $100k and $1 million dollars will either need to be collected from lower earning NY taxpayers or cut from NY social spending / public sector employment budgets.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
threlayer
And how is this bad?
I would much rather the well-to-do have their tax rates go up than have them increased on the nearly poor. Unless I were one of the few rich! How much do their votes count?
I would also hope for real tax simplification. Now that's also a real pipe-dream.
The impact of these increases is heaviest on the poor. What ? How ? The poor ?
Yes. Here's why - Who do you think donates gobs of money to institutions that service the poor ? Who do you think employs them ? Those evil, nasty "rich" people you want to tax into oblivion.
Who do you think bears the brunt of budget cuts when the tax revenues aren't there to pay for them ? Who do you think has to make up the difference by paying higher regressive taxes like sales, cigarette, alcohol, tolls, transit fares etc.
The blessed "poor".
As for moving OUT of N.Y. and other high tax states, that is generally done by younger "near-rich" folks whose annual income is INCREASING year to year. The very people most state governments would WANT living in their state.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
^^^ voting with their feet counts when the City of New York attempts to balance next year's budget.
The place has too many people living in too little space already. There isn't even enough room in Manhatten for the existence of one supermarket!
Quote:
If NYC loses $100k in tax revenue, and NY State loses $1 million in tax revenue, because Rush Limbaugh closes up the NYC broadcasting studio he uses 15 days per year, that same $100k and $1 million dollars will either need to be collected from lower earning NY taxpayers or cut from NY social spending / public sector employment budgets.
I'd help pay to shut Rush Limbaugh up.... LOL Anyhow if they work in NYC, the city gets some tax money anyhow I believe.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Stoner
... Who do you think donates gobs of money to institutions that service the poor ? Who do you think employs them ? Those evil, nasty "rich" people you want to tax into oblivion.
We taxpayers. We taxpayers. They aren't nasty and evil. they just want what they already have and what the rest of us have too.
Quote:
Who do you think bears the brunt of budget cuts when the tax revenues aren't there to pay for them ? Who do you think has to make up the difference by paying higher regressive taxes like sales, cigarette, alcohol, tolls, transit fares etc. The blessed "poor".
The poor. No. The poor have no money. The ones that are left, including those of us who live upstate and are constantly bailing out the city because te politicians in Albany are largly from the city anyway. Further, those 'taxes' are not described correctly:
- sales tax is purely regressive, as is well-known -- why does the government step into a private transaction (only because the can);
- cigarette and alcohol are 'sin' taxes and imbibers often bring health and other problems for the public to deal with;
- tolls and transit fares are cost per use and are not taxes, but fees.
Quote:
As for moving OUT of N.Y. and other high tax states, that is generally done by younger "near-rich" folks whose annual income is INCREASING year to year. The very people most state governments would WANT living in their state.
That is happening anyway and not just because of accelerated marginal rates, which have not been implemented in at least a decade. They are moving out because of many factors -- quality of life, pollution, need for space nd peace and quiet and because of business and personal tax policies not even related to an accelerated marginal rate for personal tax.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
threlayer
We taxpayers. We taxpayers. They aren't nasty and evil. they just want what they already have and what the rest of us have too.
The poor. No. The poor have no money. The ones that are left, including those of us who live upstate and are constantly bailing out the city because te politicians in Albany are largly from the city anyway. Further, those 'taxes' are not described correctly:
- sales tax is purely regressive, as is well-known -- why does the government step into a private transaction (only because the can);
- cigarette and alcohol are 'sin' taxes and imbibers often bring health and other problems for the public to deal with;
- tolls and transit fares are cost per use and are not taxes, but fees.
That is happening anyway and not just because of accelerated marginal rates, which have not been implemented in at least a decade. They are moving out because of many factors -- quality of life, pollution, need for space nd peace and quiet and because of business and personal tax policies not even related to an accelerated marginal rate for personal tax.
One set of facts for everybody.
Upstate does NOT and NEVER has bailed out NYC.
Quite the converse actually. It is money from NYC residents and businesses that keeps Upstate afloat. NYC residents provide the Lion's share of State revenues and have almost half the total State population. Add in the immediate suburbs- Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Orange and Rockland and it's 2/3 to 3/4 of the total population of the entire state.
The taxes and fees I cited are all regressive because they are paid by rich and poor alike. Everyone in NYC pays 8.25% sales tax; cigarette; beer; wine; liquor and other taxes. Every car crossing the V-N Bridge pays $10 whether it's a Wall St. Whiz Kid in his Bentley or a family of four in a 12 year old Honda Accord. Both the wealthy and the poor will pay $2 now and $2.50 soon per Subway ride.
The most recent surveys list "high taxes" as the main or prime reason for people to pack up and leave a particular state.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
While we're at it. New York, New Jersey, California and other states who are increasing taxes are counteracting what are supposed to be important parts of Obama & the Dem. Congress stimulus package. Reducing Federal taxes and holding off on Federal increases is countered by the states RAISING taxes. It takes money out of the very hands that are supposed to spend it and stimulate the economy.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Upstate does NOT and NEVER has bailed out NYC. Quite the converse actually.
That is a quite arguable point. Especially when one looks at development going on down there while the lack of development goes on up here. But if one doesn't get around upstate, one does not see it. Not to mention population and industry depletion. Also it is Wall Street, not the population that provides so much state income. None of it stays up here. Eg, power rates were 'equalized' decades ago - we used to pay less than 6 cents/kwh and after equalization back then it was 11 cents.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
threlayer
That is a quite arguable point. Especially when one looks at development going on down there while the lack of development goes on up here. But if one doesn't get around upstate, one does not see it. Not to mention population and industry depletion. Also it is Wall Street, not the population that provides so much state income. None of it stays up here. Eg, power rates were 'equalized' decades ago - we used to pay less than 6 cents/kwh and after equalization back then it was 11 cents.
Upstate started it's economic decline under Rockefeller and it accelerated under Carey and Cuomo. Employers like Carrier in Syracuse; Eastman Kodak in Rochester; Fisher Body and other auto plants; Corning etc. all packed up and left thanks to high taxes. The only employer that replaced them was the State with more prisons.
It's not just Wall Street. It's Manhattan Real Estate; JFK freight; what's left of N.Y. Harbor; Madison Avenue; the Arts; health services ; the media etc.etc.
-
Re: New York Raises Taxes on "The Rich"
^^ and energy prices. That's been a big one. Taxes, not just personal, and business regulations have also been responsible.
Typically upstate starts its decline about 6 months behind the nation's average; then it gets worse here than average; and then it lasts several YEARS longer than average. So by the time the next recession starts nationwide, we have just started recovering from the last one. As a results we seem to stay in a recession permanently. Why am I still living here?