Re: Promotion or Demotion?
You've been dumped. She let you down easy, letting you think that you are still friends, but most likely this is a distancing so that she can exclude you completely.
You got the "we can still be friends" talk.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
All is not lost...spend more and you will regain your rightful place of honour.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paris
You've been dumped. She let you down easy, letting you think that you are still friends, but most likely this is a distancing so that she can exclude you completely.
You got the "we can still be friends" talk.
No no no no no. Please don't read between the lines. This question is based on actual experience. I spent 1 year being a regular, seeing her whenever I please (as long as I had the money), and the last 2 years as a friend. Seeing, talking, doing normal friend things, on a casual basis, sometimes more intensely, sometimes less, and absolutely no money exchanged in 2 years.
I just wondered which was better, and wanted to gather thoughts.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Everyman
...This question is based on actual experience. ...
I just wondered which was better, and wanted to gather thoughts.
So then what's your take on the situation?
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
I think 'promotion' or 'demotion' is the wrong way to think about interpersonal relationships. If you are happy with your relationship with someone - great. If not, do something to change things. I don't believe in ranking my friends...
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
It's another does she really like me question then? Sounds like yes, as a friend. Is it an upgrade from customer? /shrug.
Personally I don't have casual friends so I wouldn't know. I tend to have people I care intensely about around me, but otherwise being an introvert I prefer alone time to just hanging out. I guess from that PoV your experience with her is less intense so it's a downgrade. But if you prefer, and feel it is an ego stroke that she'd hang out for free, then it is an upgrade. Presumably she has more guys that pay her for her time then those that don't so in that sense you are receiving better then usual treatment from her.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
verfolgung
So then what's your take on the situation?
Pretty much what xdamage just said. Depends on the day and the mood. I actually picked the 3rd option in the poll.
I'd never become friends with someone from this walk of life before, so for a long time after I stopped paying her, I thought it was tits that we kept being friends. I still talk to her all the time -- about an hour of texting conversation yesterday.
But actually seeing her is a struggle -- sometimes twice in a week, then not for 2 months. To the point where I think, "fuck it, I should have just stayed her customer, then I could see her whenever I want and still play with her naked" (which I don't do). I think it's too late now, for both of us, to go back to a club relationship.
So the authenticity of a real, but somewhat lukewarm, friendship vs. the time and sexuality of a regular/stripper relationship is a good question I think...so I asked it.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Everyman
No no no no no. Please don't read between the lines. This question is based on actual experience. I spent 1 year being a regular, seeing her whenever I please (as long as I had the money), and the last 2 years as a friend. Seeing, talking, doing normal friend things, on a casual basis, sometimes more intensely, sometimes less, and absolutely no money exchanged in 2 years.
I just wondered which was better, and wanted to gather thoughts.
You're asking us? Which was better for you? That is your answer.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paris
You're asking us? Which was better for you? That is your answer.
RC 101.
My original post: I realize this is purely an individual decision, but wondered about thoughts on this both from customers and dancers.
My last post right above yours also gives a fuller explanation of my thoughts.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
If I start to think about in-depth issues like this when I'm clubbing, then I'm taking shit WAY too seriously. I think many of us sometimes lose sight of why we're going to stripclubs in the first place, and get caught up in the "relationship" game that we've created in our heads. I play my PL role when I'm in the club with a dancer, then go back to my real life when I exit the club. Life OTC is just too distracting to worry about where I stand in her circle of friends.
It seems that many people thrive on drama, so to each their own, as I always say ;D.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Just show up at the club with a fat wad a dead presidents {I know, Ben Franklin was never president} and you will be ass deep in nakedness again.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
It means that she likes you enough to have you as a friend, but in the back of her mind she may always think of you as just some guy that wants to fuck her.... which at least for me means you'll never be a close, trusted friend.
Since I have a BF I would never actually hang out with former customer IRL, simply because I don't really hang out alone with ANY other men, old highschool and college buddies aside. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.
I say promotion however, because aside from a few misteps as a newbie dancer, only one custy has ever earned the privlege of contacting me IRL- and not because I was looking for more of his money :P He gets facebook, real name privleges (no otc though) and the funny thing is.... he's remained my custy. Which is cool. He's a very unique case. I care about him as a person, and find him entertaining to communicate with, and the fact that he still wants to spend money on me is a total bonus.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
There really is no answer for this. You only know what you know. You don't know enough about what the woman in question is doing when you are not with her to judge anything other than how much time YOU get for YOUR money.
Honestly why would you even care about this. Unless you are a true outside the club friend with this woman all that matters is what you are getting for your money. If you are happy keep spending on her, if you are not then move on...
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Everyman
Promotion: you don't have to pay to be her friend any more; you have some assurance that she really actually likes you and you have a real friendship.
Pointing out a misconception that skews the entire question: If you are paying someone to pay attention to you they are NOT a friend of yours.
Make no mistake about this. It is a major problem is the S-C industry. Lonely guys coming into S-Cs to not be so lonely making the mistake of assuming someone they are paying to pay attention to them is a "friend" of theirs.
SCs are about being entertained. The woman you are paying is no more a friend of yours than an actress on a screen or a stage. She is playing a part and speaking her lines because you are paying her to entertain you. When you enter a SC think of it as having entered a movie theater with 3D screens where you get to help write the script of the play unfolding before you.
Like a movie or a play it is FANTASY. Never confuse that with reality. The sanity you save my well be your own.
====
Important note: Never does that mean though that you treat those you meet in the SC as anything less then real people. As real as yourself. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that because the people are real the parts they are playing are real too. :)
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
IMO, in the dancer's eyes, its a promotion. She doesn't charge that second circle of friends to spend time with them, does she? And the guys in that circle of friends don't pay her to get naked, do they?
Yoda is right though. What matters is what you are looking for in the relationship. What works well for one might not work for another.
The thing is it is entirely up to her whether you move into that second ( or even first ) circle of friends. At my current club of choice, there are several dancers I have more to do with IRL than inside the club. One is a girl I did a significant number of dances with over the years but a few years ago began limiting it to bailing her out on bad days. She hasn't asked my help in over a year. A few weeks ago, a customer offered to buy me 15 minutes in CR with her. Much to his surprise, she refused. I had mixed emotions personally, as she's probably the #1 girl in the city. ( actually, I felt good she said "no" since I predicted beforehand she would )
There are other RL friends who have asked me not to even visit them at the stage and one ( now retired ) girl who asked me to avoid visiting when she was working. So I can see why this might not be considered a good thing by some. Personally, I'd rather be thought of as a friend than as a customer, regardless of the treatment I might be getting in the club. I automatically lose interest in anyone I'd have to pay to spend time with me.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bem401
The thing is it is entirely up to her whether you move into that second ( or even first ) circle of friends.
That makes her a person, like anyone else, and is how it should be for anyone.
To be very candid the actual relationships I have with some dancers that have crossed over lines of fantasy into reality were born first in the fact that they could see I knew the difference.
I never presume. If anything is going to happen it happens naturally and not because I was attempting to push anything one way or the other. I use SCs for what SCs were designed for. You want to pay to find a date, go to a dating service. You want to be entertained, go to a place of entertainment. Never try to drive a nail with a screwdriver.
I don't go to the supermarket or the gym or anyplace else to find women. I go to shop or work out, but women are there and if you strike up conversations and folks are folks and if you leave things be and just be natural sometimes things unfold. Its always a pleasant surprise to me and I leave it at that.
Sometimes the best way to have things happen to you is to have zero expectations of any such occurrence. :)
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Golden_Rule
To be very candid the actual relationships I have with some dancers that have crossed over lines of fantasy into reality were born first in the fact that they could see I knew the difference.
Game, set , match!
And for what it's worth GR this works with escorts (the non-jaded ones of course) as well...
The key to making the balancing act work is the fact that the sex worker involved trusts you and understands that you "get it". Once that understanding is there then RL friendship...and much more...can occur. Part of that trust is not interfering with her need to earn. The reason most guys go from the (ITC) friend zone to being dumped is becasue they start to demand too much attention and time from a dancer to make whatever money they spend worth the aggravation. Add to this the fact that the money almost always starts to decline once the guy thinks he has some sort of inside track with the dancer and can hang-out for discount rates and you have a clear formula for a "demotion" of sorts...
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Golden_Rule
Pointing out a misconception that skews the entire question: If you are paying someone to pay attention to you they are NOT a friend of yours.
You haven't found a misconception; it was a mere semantic or linguistic error. I guess I should have said "pay her to be your pretend friend." It's what I meant.
We were stripper/customer for about 9 months; in some weird gray transitional area for about 3 months; and nothing but IRL friends (no money or club visits) for the last 2 years. I know the difference.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Everyman
We were stripper/customer for about 9 months; in some weird gray transitional area for about 3 months; and nothing but IRL friends (no money or club visits) for the last 2 years. I know the difference.
It appears you do but why not say this to begin with instead of playing hide-and-seek with your actual question/point?
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Everyman
1We were stripper/customer for about 9 months; in some weird gray transitional area for about 3 months; and nothing but IRL friends (no money or club visits) for the last 2 years. I know the difference.
Truly glad to hear that.
So the issue then has nothing to do with the club, so why approach it from the angle of losing an ATF? She was lost to you as that when you moved it outside the realm of the club and made it a legit friendship, dropping the club visits - as you just said above - in the process.
Absolutely and totally different thing, so why even bother to mention the former as it no longer has anything to do with it? [thus leaving me still confuse which is why I ask you to clear that up]
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
It simply is a case of much ado about nothing.
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bem401
IMO, in the dancer's eyes, its a promotion. She doesn't charge that second circle of friends to spend time with them, does she? And the guys in that circle of friends don't pay her to get naked, do they?
Yoda is right though. What matters is what you are looking for in the relationship. What works well for one might not work for another.
The thing is it is entirely up to her whether you move into that second ( or even first ) circle of friends. At my current club of choice, there are several dancers I have more to do with IRL than inside the club. One is a girl I did a significant number of dances with over the years but a few years ago began limiting it to bailing her out on bad days. She hasn't asked my help in over a year. A few weeks ago, a customer offered to buy me 15 minutes in CR with her. Much to his surprise, she refused. I had mixed emotions personally, as she's probably the #1 girl in the city. ( actually, I felt good she said "no" since I predicted beforehand she would )
There are other RL friends who have asked me not to even visit them at the stage and one ( now retired ) girl who asked me to avoid visiting when she was working. So I can see why this might not be considered a good thing by some. Personally, I'd rather be thought of as a friend than as a customer, regardless of the treatment I might be getting in the club. I automatically lose interest in anyone I'd have to pay to spend time with me.
sorry about the old thread, but i believe the comments quoted above were what i remember from a few months back when commenting today on the same "freinds" issue talked about in the current thread.
as i said earlier today, it doh't think the term IRL is being used accuratrely here, but it may explain why the girl can afford down time if she's a real hottie chick, ift that's what #1 means? however the idea that a customer is hanging real life witth a dancer this hot, i just have a hard tiime believing, reading between the lines it looks like just a "club friends' thing not bad but not an actual IRL thing . Dancers like that don't hang with a no paying customer, i assume fairly often, unless he's giving something in ecxchange, maybe club info or gossip the girl might want to know
Re: Promotion or Demotion?
This is an interesting way to see the whole irl. In my entire life dancing only one time did a customer become a friend (and is in the process of becoming much more). I asked him one time about something like this (after we became irl friends) and he said he wouldn't feel comfortable going back to being a regular. However this point is moot since I no longer club dance, the club in question closed up 10 years and I haven't worked there in 15 years (and he quit going after I quit). I think in most cases guys get confused about the whole irl thing. Truly, he's the only one I can truly call a friend from that situation. Oh sure, I picked up several regulars I saw out of the club but those were bachelor parties and other parties (and no sexual activity). I wouldn't call these guys irl friends because I never got together with them on a personal basis. Maybe they think I am an irl friend but I wouldn't know.