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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
Elvia
I don't think she's saying it's not bad, she's saying that if it's not that aggressive and she can fend it off, then she'd rather continue with the dance.
Oh, I understand. I can even see it, sort of. Its just that violations of the person are usually defined in black and white terms. Not, my person is being violated unless he's spending "X" amount. It is usually either an is, or is not, sort of thing.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
Not oddly enough, I've never had such a problem with men who pay $500 + an hour. Funny how that works out. Its always the cheapskates.
I don't care how much money he's spending, its a third strike, you're out kind of situation. If you want to put your fingers in some vagina, please go see an escort. And please, ask her permission to do so as well. Some escorts don't like fingering because men can have long, dirty nails as well.
I have had such men removed from the club, and will do it again, before they have a chance to assault another dancer. Ladies, we should NOT put up with this kind of behavior, i.e., the man trying to stick his fingers up into your junk. That's dangerous, unsanitary, and can cause infections.
As for boobie and butt gropers, hate to say it, I can deal with them a little bit better, have gotten adept at pinning their arms and moving around in a way that shifts their gropes to non-sexual areas. They still suck though.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
it is bad. but if you read the second part of my post, i said it depends on how aggressive they are being. there are some guys who are more so persistant than physically aggressive. as in no matter how many times you tell them no they will sneakily try to grab something. i am willing to deal with this.
some guys try to take the brute force route over the wear you down route. if they are taking the brute force route, then i wont deal with it these are the ones who will try to physically fight you or hold you down to get what they want, as opposed to the persistant octopus who will stop as soon as his hand is smacked, apologize, then try again. i am not willing to spend time alone in a room with one who completely tries to overpower the girl though.
yes, it is grey area. but to me as the dancer there is a big difference between the two. one is annoying, and one is scary.
also for me personally, there is a big difference when working at a topless or a nude club. even though the fabric on a thong is teeny, it is great psychological protection. i am more willing to put up with gropers in the private areas than when i am totally in the nude. i am aware that the thong is not a chastity belt that will keep out octopus's hands, but the fact that htey would have to physically remove my thong to the side to get to teh lady bits comforts me. in a nude club, a wandering hand that i miss that lightly touches the vag is extremely violating.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
Wow where are all these clubs that pay you a grand an hour? I mean I'm in Vegas and our Vip has always been $400 an hour since like the beginning of time...
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
I've never had a dancer try to stop me from touching her vajayjay. Maybe it's because I have slow hands and a easy touch. :)
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
The OP didn't say anything about stating rules up front. Why not just say tits and biscuit are off limits. Actually as a customer the best way to hear it is when it SOUNDS like an invitation. "You CAN TOUCH my thighs and my shoulders but my girls and my no no are mine" Anywhoo my 2 cents.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
audrey_k
Why don't you give up?
I constantly have customers trying to touch/finger me and for a song or two I will just squirm around like an octupus to get them to stop, but they just keep trying. Even when I grab their hands they will FIGHT with me... can I not make it anymore obvious that I don't want your dirty hands on me?
I really just don't understand the motivation for fighting with a dancer to be able to finger her... doens't this equate to sexual assault?
If you are trying to open a door and its stuck you don't give up because the door doesn't want to be opened, you push harder. Sadly that's how a lot of people see strippers and obviously they are not really concerned about what you want. Yes, it is obviously sexual assault and i wish it was treated as such by both strippers and the law.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
this is starting to depress me
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
audrey_k
Why don't you give up?
I constantly have customers trying to touch/finger me and for a song or two I will just squirm around like an octupus to get them to stop, but they just keep trying. Even when I grab their hands they will FIGHT with me... can I not make it anymore obvious that I don't want your dirty hands on me?
I really just don't understand the motivation for fighting with a dancer to be able to finger her... doens't this equate to sexual assault?
Of course it is.
It seems that SCs attract this type of men so you get a disproportionate amount of that type there. Looks like it's a fact of life and you have to deal with their behaviour as part of your job. I'm not excusing what they do, just saying that that type will continue to try and you must continue to stop them.
I don't get why you don't all just walk away from the LD when they try this. Perhpas they will accuse you of doing it just to rip them off, but really it is not in a stripper's interests to cut an LD short unless she is sure that the customer (and his friends) will not extend the LD or pay for more later.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
Steve123
The OP didn't say anything about stating rules up front. Why not just say tits and biscuit are off limits. Actually as a customer the best way to hear it is when it SOUNDS like an invitation. "You CAN TOUCH my thighs and my shoulders but my girls and my no no are mine" Anywhoo my 2 cents.
Really? So when I say "You can touch my legs below the tattoo line" it sounds like an invitation for otherwise? Or am I misconstruing?
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
^I think he is saying it sounds better to the customer if you put the emphasis on what they CAN touch rather than what they can't touch, by wording it a certain way.
However, I wouldn't be put out by a stripper telling me I can't touch her crotch (or boobs if that is the rule), since it's perfectly reasonable for her not to let me. But I think (though I could be WRONG - this is just my own admitedly limited experience and I don't want to sound like I think I'm an expert on the whole industry) most strippers do say where he can touch as well as where he can't. As in "First I'll tell you the rules. No mouth contact, no touching between the legs, but you can touch me anywhere else." So also she is saying it's the club rules, not her rule, though it probably is also her rule, unless she is an "extras" girl.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
Hopper
I don't get why you don't all just walk away from the LD when they try this. Perhpas they will accuse you of doing it just to rip them off, but really it is not in a stripper's interests to cut an LD short unless she is sure that the customer (and his friends) will not extend the LD or pay for more later.
you just contracted yourself here, but answered your first sentence with the second one.
I dont usually state the rules in detail before the sale unless the issue is pressed. If they ask whether they can touch in the private rooms, my response usually is "within reason." I try to steer the conversation away from that question.
You have to remember, a lot of our income depends on making impulse sales when the customer is not thinking logically. When there is an depth discussion of rules before the purchase, then the customer gets more into the mode of "well is this worth xx$?" which is not where we want them. I want the customers in impulse mode, because that is how i get more money.
Also, personally i find nitpicky bartering of contact when making a sale to be a tad demeaning. I might be the only one who feels this way. But I am not a fan of being like "well, if you pay 25$ for the LD over there, you can lightly touch my arm, my hand, my lower leg, and maybe my thigh if it is not done in a bothersome manner. But if we go to the private room, you pay 200$ and you can touch the side of my asscheek-- but please keep at least 3 inches away from my crack, my tummy-- but not my bellybutton because that annoys me, and my boobs sort of lightly but no squeezing and stay off the nipples." I feel better about selling my entertainment in blocks of time or by the song instead of putting a specific price tag on every body part. Mentally it just works out better for me. I would rather swat hands away (assuming they are not being forceful) than haggle over contact before hand... haggling over contact makes it feel kinda like i am selling my body! Selling the sexy dances feels like i am selling entertainment, and if they are an octopus then in my mind its like, ok im still selling entertainment, but i guess at the moment i am selling entertainment to an asshole customer-- it reflects more badly on him than me. I hope i am kind of getting the point across that i am trying to make, it sounds silly and like i am splitting hairs here, but it does keep my mind at peace.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
^I was going on the idea that being sexually assaulted is not worth the extra money. If you choose to class it as sexual assault. A guy trying to stick his finger into you is pretty serious. He's paid for the dance you interrupted, you just won't get paid for more and why would you want to be.
I think I do get what you said. You don't want to spoil the effect or demean yourself by dividing your body into zones like a carcass in a restaurant cold room.
Where I've been, dancers don't explain the rules when making the sale either. They recite them at the start of the LD. It's not such a let down either, or too much rigmorole, since in those clubs generally only between the legs is off-limits, as well as mouth contact. Very reasonable and not complicated to explain.
Obviously your situation is different. But touching a dancer between the legs and trying to push their fingers in is going beyond ignorance of the rules. They'd be idiots to think they can do that to a stripper. One in a hundred would be honestly unclear on that.
Seems awkward for them to find out about the rules (or what you personally allow) by you pushing their hands away in the midle of the dance instead of finding out before it, like it's a let-down. Maybe depends how you do it. But again, the guys the OP is complaining about shouldn't be disappointed at all about not being allowed to do what they are trying to do.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
Pretty_Penny
this is starting to depress me
Sorry, that might have been a bit too blunt.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
I don't care how much money he's spending, its a third strike, you're out kind of situation. If you want to put your fingers in some vagina, please go see an escort. And please, ask her permission to do so as well. Some escorts don't like fingering because men can have long, dirty nails as well.
The problem, and if you are being fair you have to give a small amount of latitude on this, is that so many dancers are also escorts [the way you are defining them] in the clubs that it becomes a bit hard to figure out for the average customer which are only dancers and which are dancer/escorts.
Now, as I have mentioned in other threads, if dancers and customers were more open to talking to each other boundaries would be MUCH more obvious and what I call M.I.C. [mutual informed consent], where - like water - everyone has found their own level and no one is dealing with anything the want not to deal with would come into play far more often.
The problem is dancers and customers exchange little information at all before entering the LD room or VIP. Some folks, dancers and customers alike, enjoy this as it leaves a lot of room for trying to get something over on the other. When communication takes place though and everyone knows AND HAS AGREED UPON what is expected of the other all that latitude disappears and you wind up with two people in accord on what is being given and taken from each other in their exchange.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trem
If you are trying to open a door and its stuck you don't give up because the door doesn't want to be opened, you push harder. Sadly that's how a lot of people see strippers and obviously they are not really concerned about what you want. Yes, it is obviously sexual assault and i wish it was treated as such by both strippers and the law.
Oy vey. ::)
That only works if somewhere along the line no stopped meaning no.
And a I pointed out earlier the law, though it ought to be different, has little to do with it if dancers are never calling the police because management would have a conniption if Alcohol Violations Control Board reports were being filed against the clubs because a sexual assault took place within them based on a dancers complaint about a customer touching her va-jay-jay without consent.
Leaves the dancers behind the 8-ball on that account. Not to mention that even if it got past the above you'd have the issue of many police departments not taking such complaints seriously [sorry to have to admit].
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigmarv
I've never had a dancer try to stop me from touching her vajayjay. Maybe it's because I have slow hands and a easy touch. :)
Or maybe, one might hope, you have been very honest about what you want and therefore the only dancers who have entered a VIP room with you are ones that have agreed via M.I.C. to allow you to do that, and you paid accordingly.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
Golden_Rule
Or maybe, one might hope, you have been very honest about what you want and therefore the only dancers who have entered a VIP room with you are ones that have agreed via M.I.C. to allow you to do that, and you paid accordingly.
I have the utmost respect for the lovely ladies and always ask if touching is allowed before going to VIP. And yes I do tip accordingly, but they all say I have nice soft hands. :)
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
nevermind. accidental post.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
^ do you need a post removed?
FBR
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
Athenathefabulous
You have to remember, a lot of our income depends on making impulse sales when the customer is not thinking logically. When there is an depth discussion of rules before the purchase, then the customer gets more into the mode of "well is this worth xx$?" which is not where we want them. I want the customers in impulse mode, because that is how i get more money.
:O
Thank you for being honest.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
Being in that environment makes some people feel that it's more acceptable...or that they can get away with more. Your message is indeed clear. They just don't care.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
MojoJojo
Being in that environment makes some people feel that it's more acceptable...or that they can get away with more. Your message is indeed clear. They just don't care.
Agreed.
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
FBR
^ do you need a post removed?
FBR
you can remove it and these threads talking about it. I just asked a question that had already been answered and then deleted it. :P
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
Pretty_Penny
you can remove it and these threads talking about it. I just asked a question that had already been answered and then deleted it. :P
Penny I will only remove one post for free. If you want multiple posts removed along with threads I will demand free LD's }:D LOL
FBR
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Re: when you are trying to touch a dancers vajayjay and she is trying to stop you...
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Originally Posted by
Pretty_Penny
this is starting to depress me
This is starting to make me more angry at my customers!
I can put up with this for maximum of five songs and then I'm done (I am really good at dodging hands). Honestly though this happens with SO many of my customers I would lose more than half my customers if I just ended the dance and didn't deal with dogding their hands. But this gets to be really fucking difficult and I am just sick of it.
For some reason this is the number one extras thing guys want from me in dances, above hj/bjs. Apparently I have a very tempting vagina.