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Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
I'm defining feminist stripper as a dancer who stands up for her rights even if she will lose her job, a dancer who never takes disrespect from anyone (male or female), and does not compromise her personal boundaries for men and their money.
When I started dancing three years ago I saw the sex industry differently. The "rules" of the strip clubs i danced at were extremely relaxed, there was no such thing as a late fee or even a house fee over 40 dollars (and i danced at so called "gentlemen's clubs). The managers were nice to the girls, the guys seemed nicer too. You were treated as a true IC.
Now.... clubs have exorbitant house fees, tons of rules, fines if you're late, fines if you miss a shift, fines if you don't wear enough jewelry, fired if you gain weight, fired if you lose weight, fired if you're late to stage, can't pick your own music, berated by management constantly, management lets guys treat you badly just because they're spending money, etc. Most clubs that I have worked at are trying their hardest to treat dancers like employees with schedules and rules without paying them, in fact they are downright EXPLOITING dancers.
I guess you could blame it on the economy. Money brings out the worst in people.
So... what do you think? Has it changed? It seems like in order to work at clubs like mentioned above, you have to put up with disrespect (and that's putting it lightly) from management and customers and conform to their standard of beauty and non-paid pseudo employee status or you're "fired". (I put "fired" in quotations because you cannot fire an IC, only an employee can be fired. an IC gets their contract terminated).
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
I'm very tired of the club bullshit too. The club I work at , I have to pay a flat fee of $200-$250. If I did extremely good, I have to pay almost $300. And this club fines you for everything! They don't even let us take breaks unless we're eating. They recently lowered down the dance prices to very low, with the same house fees. Its $25 for 2 nude songs. It used to be $20 per song. I feel like they just exploiting us.
As the economy gets worse, clubs just push us harder and harder. therefore, I dont think its possible to be a feminist stripper anymore.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
Not only are clubs pushing us harder- new girls who don't know any better and veteran dancers who are scared to go against the grain just TAKE IT!!! If you're 1 girl in their roster of 60 or so who is dissenting the common law, you get terminated. No one listens to you because you're disposable. Everyone is so desperate for money now, they'll take anything. It isn't right.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
I'm going to follow athena and make some positive points about my club:
1) the bouncers will really help you get your money. A guy owed me $500 a few weeks ago and he didn't have the money. One of the bouncers told
me he would take care of it and told me to go work. I went and sold more lap
dances while he got the guy to empty the $300 he had in his bank account and get his friends to give him the $200. Then gave it to me afterwards. So not only did I get all the money I might not have gotten without him, but I got to make another $200 because I didn't have to waste time standing there arguing with one customer.
2) The bouncers really care about the girls. One of my friends got slipped drugs a month ago and started flipping out. They couldn't get the guy who
gave them to her because he had already left, but one of the bouncers sat
with her in a sepArate room for two hours calming her down. I got really upset a couple weeks ago and one of the bouncers took me aside and talked to me for 45 minutes and told me I was really special andnot like the other dancers and not to let their bullshit get me down. I've cried on another one
of the bouncers shoulders and he was really sweet, even though I got his suit all snotty and wet!
3) The waitresses will help the girls if they can. If they have extra drinks on their sheet they'll give them to girls who haven't met their quota, and if your
customer buys a drink he can't use his ticket for you get credit for it. I couldn't sell my last drink one night and one of the waitresses convinced a customer who had a crush on her to buy her a drink and gave me credit for
it.
4) Our club takes a 10% charge to cash our funny money. But guys can't buy less than $100 in it and they have to buy in increments of $100. So even though you get shorted from whAt they give you, they at least try and help you by forcing the customer to tip you.
5) Our owner is really cool. When he manages he will always try and get girls funny money cashed, he's even given me money from his own pocket before. If I'm ten or so minutes late, he'll usually say for me not to get charged late fees. And he brings friends to the club frequently but he doesn't let them slide on paying. He had a friend refuse to pay two girls who danced for him a few weeks ago; not only did he not charge the girls for what they werent paid for, but he took dances off the board to not be charged for, so they made the money they weren't paid anyway.
6) If I only do a few dances, staff members will refuse to take my tips.
My club takes a lot of our money and has a lot of fines, but it's a small club and like a family. I never feel unappreciated or like I'm not valued.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
^^ yea its good to hear about situations where dancers are not treated so badly. Im glad you posted that too, since everyone is always saying bad things about LA.
And another thing to add on the yes you can be feminist and a stripper topic: Personally, i feel like dancing was the first thing that really made me feel like i had control over my life. I moved out when i was 17 so in that sense i was free from the parents, but i never really felt like i was able to control my own future until i started dancing which gave me the financial independence and the belief that i can find creative ways to make money without climbing the corporate ladder. And thats largely what feminism is about, feeling like you have the option to do what you want and to be successful on your own terms.
I think that after im done moving and get my positive spirits back up again i am going to start a positive things your clubs/managers do. There is so much negativity going around now (and not without reason) that i think we need some positive stuff to give us a little hope that the entire industry is not going to shit. Maybe a lot of it is, but some of it is still holding out and letting us feel like we are ahead of the game and are valued, not being exploited.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
I think you can be a feminist and a stripper. Feminism at its core really has little to do with dealing with unfairness. At a previous non stripping job I was discriminated against and there was little I could do except quit. Same with dancing. When I danced I stood up for myself and refused to be a victim.
The club Emily mentions has been pulling this as long as I've been dancing. In fact I auditioned, but never worked there because of this. The owner is the biggest sleaze on the planet and he treats women like they are cattle. I worked at a club that used to be close to this club and most of the dancers were from the club in question. Now most of these clubs are gone. Sorry to go off tangent, but this guy is the epitome of what's wrong with the industry.
However, I think many (none in this thread btw) glamorize the 90's as this perfect time and that's not completely true either. Sure, it was a lot easier then to make money in a clean capacity, but there were still sleazy owners/managers. The only difference was in many cases there was more competition with clubs. If one didn't like the rules, they could move on. Now that's not as possible and the club owners know it. Add to the fact that many more girls want to be strippers than ever before, and that there is less money in general, and there's the problem.
I really feel for all of you dancing in clubs now. When the club is making more off you than you, that is completely warped, especially when you have to offer more just to break even.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
Feminism at its core does have to do with unfairness, in essence all it really means is equality, and to have equality you must have justice/fairness.
All valid points above, there ARE good clubs out there, I'm just finding the ones that do treat their dancers with respect are so few!!
Maybe we could make a list (especially the ones you referenced) of clubs that treat their dancers kindly and fairly? I think it would be really helpful.
I'm especially interested in the one you listed in California.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
But the problem with that is not all unfairness has to do with equality. It sounds like an oxymoron but it's not. By fairness I'm not talking paying women les or anything like that. That is unfair and sexist. Life isn't fair. For instance just because one has a skill doesn't mean they'll be paid more than someone unskilled. Now of course if they are paid less because they are a woman, yes that is immoral. If however someone is paid less because the unskilled job requires more danger that's another issue entirely. Same thing with dancing. Some girls will always make more and it has nothing to do with unfairness. Some might make more because they work harder, others because they are prettier. Which one is fair? Obviously the one working harder deserves more, but the prettier one is somewhat questionable.
When it comes to clubs, if a club is paying the men more, then yes that is inequality. For instance one club I worked at never hired managers who were women, but would hire any guy who came in. They were also paying the female DJ less than the males. At another club, all dancers, waitresses, and bartenders worked strictly on tips, but the male jobs were paid. I thought all of these instances were a form of sexism. In general I don't think managers are even thinking of feminism when they institute these ridiculous fees, they are thinking more money, and would probably do this to male dancers as well.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
Re Isis Star:
lol well if we listed all the good clubs then girls would flock to them and make things difficult for the girls already there, except for the one on a hiring freeze. I will say that 3 of the (positive) clubs i mentioned up there are within an hours drive from Cleveland-- for whatever reason a lot of cleveland clubs treat their dancers well (not all, but a good portion in my experience). At some point ill get around to writing a review about some of these clubs, but ive been kinda lazy on it.
Re Kellydancer:
I agree that refusing to hire female managers but hiring incomeptent men is unfair. There is definitely anti-feminism that goes on in some of these clubs.
But on the flip side, at some clubs, us girls makea lot more than any manager there!
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
The club I just left was actually very respectful towards its' dancers! Too bad the money dried up after bachelor party season ended, haha.
Basically the way this club worked was, Saturday was the big bachelor party night and they would draw huge crowds. They would hire pretty much anyone to work Saturdays, but they would cap the number of girls who was allowed to work other nights between 10-15, mostly senior girls and girls with a lot of regulars. They were even on a hiring freeze for a while after the season ended.
They never fined us, never had shift "requirements", and a couple times I even saw them cut the house fees from $40 to $20 because it was soooo dead and nobody was making money. There were absolutely no extras and girls who started drama were warned and fired if it became a problem for other girls. Management never ever called anybody a slut, except jokingly, and we were all treated as respectable human beings.
Oh and here's the best story: There was another dancer who started there at the same time as me but very quickly became a valuable member of the staff, would work 4-5 shifts a week (she was supporting her whole family) and was a very sweet girl. Right before I stopped working there, her apartment complex burned to the ground and her family lot everything they had. Management and staff started a donation in the dressing room and girls brought in all kinds of stuff to help this girl and her family.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
Most of the clubs I've worked at have been pretty cool.
My club right now had a bouncer get hit by a car when he was trying to chase down a custy that screwed a girl out of money. We have donation boxes all over the doors and DR's, we've had bake sales, and the club is covering his medical and legal expenses.
One night I saw a shit ton of people come in the front door that I knew from work and they pulled me off stage the rest of the night without charging skip fees. They also helped to keep them away from me so I could still make money.
My first club the managers would get your money for you. No matter what. That was awesome. }:D They also made the custies buy extra funny money to make up for the percentage the club took.
When I danced at a base rent/per dance club they NEVER charged us the full amount. I had kept track of how many dances I did the first night and was expecting to get charged for all of them and they asked me at the end of the night how many I did (23) and I told them and she said " oh I must have heard you wrong, you said 5, right?" ;) And then lowered the base rent from $40 to $25.
The bartenders were also really cool. One of them would get custies to buy me whatever I wanted, LOL. I found a slave at the club and he would go get me food and coffee and rub my feet.
They also loved my costumes and made me a feature every night with theme sets.
The manager that hired me loved me and went across the street to the other club they owned to tell the mgr that didn't hire me there that he was an idiot and I was their new top girl. :O
God I loved that club. The female manager was like a verbal jaws of life to get money out of bastard custies trying to rip us off. I was so sad when I had to come home.
There ARE good clubs out there! It's just a matter of finding them.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
I saw the title of your post and thought it would be including a more general definition of "feminist"
I don't want to derail your thread or anything but if I just saw the question itself, "Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??". I would say that I've come to realize and accept that stripping, and sex work in general, cannot exist without some level of female objectification, which to me is anti-feminist.
I will continue stripping, but I think for strippers who also consider themselves feminists it's important that we recognize the inherent contradiction between what we do to put food on the table and what we believe is, idealistically, in the best interests of women as a whole.
Then again, I know perfectly good-hearted, spiritual, wonderful people who buy items that were produced in sweatshops, who use energy that comes from coal ("clean" coal is a myth), who eat animals that were brutally tortured, etc.
I guess to relate this back to your OP, when money is involved and we live within a certain set of capitalistic economic conditions, especially when capitalism is sort of going bananas right now, we should be wary of defining our values based on how we interact with those at our jobs who have the power to hire and fire us, or how we make our money in general
Being exploited by greedy clubowners doesn't make you any less of a feminist, just like someone working in an office, sweatshop, brothel or McDonalds can still be a feminist, or an anarchist, or a socialist, or anything that seems contrary to their profession
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SerenaSin
I saw the title of your post and thought it would be including a more general definition of "feminist"
I don't want to derail your thread or anything but if I just saw the question itself, "Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??". I would say that I've come to realize and accept that stripping, and sex work in general, cannot exist without some level of female objectification, which to me is anti-feminist.
I will continue stripping, but I think for strippers who also consider themselves feminists it's important that we recognize the inherent contradiction between what we do to put food on the table and what we believe is, idealistically, in the best interests of women as a whole.
Then again, I know perfectly good-hearted, spiritual, wonderful people who buy items that were produced in sweatshops, who use energy that comes from coal ("clean" coal is a myth), who eat animals that were brutally tortured, etc.
I guess to relate this back to your OP, when money is involved and we live within a certain set of capitalistic economic conditions, especially when capitalism is sort of going bananas right now, we should be wary of defining our values based on how we interact with those at our jobs who have the power to hire and fire us, or how we make our money in general
Being exploited by greedy clubowners doesn't make you any less of a feminist, just like someone working in an office, sweatshop, brothel or McDonalds can still be a feminist, or an anarchist, or a socialist, or anything that seems contrary to their profession
I agree completely. Great post.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Isis Star
I'm defining feminist stripper as a dancer who stands up for her rights even if she will lose her job, a dancer who never takes disrespect from anyone (male or female), and does not compromise her personal boundaries for men and their money.
There are women in this business like this, I am one and work with a few. But it is rare. Women are sacrificing a lot of themselves in the business now b/c they are so desperate. And the new girls are making it worse and worse. Don't know how to be in control, letting these men get away with everything they want, completely giving them the power. It's very frustrating.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
I'm so fed up with the b.s. from the club ona daily basis that I don't even want to go to work anymore. No Im not overweight or ugly, nor do I have any problems with anyone and at one point I used to be one of their top earners. Now, Im watching the greed completely take over and find myself not speaking to a single person because I feel like Im going to snap. Exorbitant house fees, the fear that if I dont tip 20% or higher I will be fired, having management screw me out of money, everyones general attitude just sucks because after all, we are all just cattle. Unfortunately all the other clubs are dead right now, so that's the way it has to be. I hate stripping now, its been totally ruined.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
Yes, it's possible. Things that help contribute to my stripper feminism:
1) I work in a dive. Low house fees, lower expectations for the girls. We can wear whatever we want, etc.
2) I don't 'need' the money I make. Meaning I feel much more free to turn guys down when they're disrespectful, etc. I'm not saying you can't do this if you do need the money, but I can imagine putting up with a lot more BS if I needed their money. (and here I don't mean to speak for other dancers)
3) My club doesn't have good management, but they're nice to me. I come to work, do my job, and leave. No sexual harrassment, random fining, etc. If we're sick and can't come in, there is no penalty.
It also helps that I only work about once a week. I think a lot of women on this board would be much happier if they only had to face the noise once a week or so. Burnout is a bitch. If I try to work more hours, my mojo goes kersplat.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
charlie61
2) I don't 'need' the money I make. Meaning I feel much more free to turn guys down when they're disrespectful, etc. I'm not saying you can't do this if you do need the money, but I can imagine putting up with a lot more BS if I needed their money. (and here I don't mean to speak for other dancers)
This is a great point and one of the most important things to be noted.. I think if less girls were desperate there wouldn't be so much being given away to these men. These girls are so hungry for money they will do just about anything to get what they can.
I know when guys come at me with the attitude of "Im paying you, you do what I want" I get a lot of pleasure from looking at them with that look-"really??" and walking away..
I think it was Jenna Jameson who said if you are desperate you should never go into porn, it's the same with stripping. You have to be able to stand your ground, it's hard to do that if you feel you need every cent that comes in your direction.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
I guess I don't really see how being objectified is anti-feminist. I mean, to say so would be denying that there is pleasure in objectification. Have you ever tried to have sex that involves zero objectification? Not much fun.
Furthermore, one can see the strip club as a place that sends the messages "objectification is okay when you're in a strip club" and "objectification is only okay when you're in a strip club." I think most men realize that they can't treat women the same outside of the SC. That's why it's so much fun. Just drawing that distinction might aid in lessening real world objectification. Then again, in some cases, it could work the opposite way. Shrugs.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
You know if it weren't for feminism there wouldn't be strip clubs, porn or abortion.
Women are the ones who can take all that away.
Make sure you remind the customers who like talking shit. ::)
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
I think it depends on how you define feminism.
But I highly recommend reading Female Chauvinist Pigs, because I think it may give you a little insight to feminism in the adult entertainment industry.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
^ Isn't that an non sex-positive book?
I highly recommend Jane Sexes It Up for insight into how seemingly non-feminist things (BDSM, dildo use, stripping, prostitution, etc) fit into feminism.
I figure...if you're a woman, and you want to do something, it probably fits under the feminist umbrella. After all, what could more feminist than free choice?
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
In my opinion, FCP doesn't really take a stand either way. It's pretty much just some insight and facts into a sex-sells culture and how woman have either embraced or denied it. Ariel Levy leaves it up to the reader to determine if as woman we are objectifying ourselves or declaring sexual freedom and liberation.
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
^ But who is to say that objectification is non-feminist? Is it not enjoyable to be objectified sometimes? Why can't that be included in feminism?
Pretty sure that book is one of the most ardently sex negative feminist books out there. I've read pieces of it for school. "Leaving it up to the reader" is a guise for "let me show you my opinion based on filtered facts and lead you to an inevitable conclusion".
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Re: Is it possible to be a feminist stripper anymore??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
charlie61
^ But who is to say that objectification is non-feminist? Is it not enjoyable to be objectified sometimes? Why can't that be included in feminism?
Pretty sure that book is one of the most ardently sex negative feminist books out there. I've read pieces of it for school. "Leaving it up to the reader" is a guise for "let me show you my opinion based on filtered facts and lead you to an inevitable conclusion".
I'd be lying if I said I didn't fantasize about being a sex symbol. Playboy? Digital Playground contract girl? I'd jump at either of those opportunities. But do I think that those things would be empowering and pro-feminist? HELL NO. I love stripping and I love the attention from men. But I feel more sexually liberated when I'm with a guy who doesn't view me as an erotic tool. I feel liberated when my intellectual abilities are far more appreciated than my physical attributes.
If I did consider myself a feminist, I would say that I'm sex-positive. [I'm actually a virgin (vaginal penetration virgin, at least) and I'm not entirely sure how that fits into my personal views]. I am a very sexual person. As far as the adult industry goes however, I think it will always be of more benefit to the men than the woman who delude themselves into thinking that transforming into a sexual instrument either on stage at a strip club or in front of camera for some porno is feminist power.
And yes, I just pulled out Female Chauvinist Pigs and Ariel Levy is VERY critical (more critical than I remember) of the sex positive movement.