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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yuki*
I'd be interested in trying it out for a month, after I move..
Only problem is I don't know the first thing about Indy camming :(
Several good tutorials here about Indy work.
Generally, Indy work involves using your own IM platforms (yahoo, skype (most popular at the moment), Live, and some older ones like camfrog or ICQ pop up from time to time. Most indy sites out there allow you to list with them, and they take 20%-30% for this. They pay you, because they want control and to be able to take their percentage out, and most of them still pass chargebacks on to you. So the advantages over NOT using them are minimal, except that they, by virtue of having 100 or 1000 or whatever # girls registered, get lots more traffic than you do on a solo site. So I kickstarted the process to get a site going that accomplishes this while ONLY providing the services we NEED.
Malaya actually inspired this work from me in many ways, and I give her credit for that.
Since I am working with people that I know can get a site MAJOR traffic, I personally think that if they need $15-$18 per girl to be profitable and make it worthwhile, then WE really need to think about doing the smart thing and getting them to buy more bandwidth and traffic to the point of saturation, but this would require a level of co-operation that I cannot fathom in THIS business, where the owner of the site has to come to just to get peace, much less a co-op that could change camming forever.
:)
B.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
So, go head, whisper in B's ear and tell me what YOU wanna see on this site...
B.
I'll have to think about this when it's not 3:30 in the morning and get back to ya.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Juliette25
I'll have to think about this when it's not 3:30 in the morning and get back to ya.
Great, because this is the sort of thing we're discussing in the other thread. How we can make the women who WORK become a part of the action, so to speak.
I have heard and read so many complaints over the years about how things are run and that if it was designed by the people who perform or even the patrons, how different and cool it would be. Well, often when that gets offered, the performers shoot it down, or can only think INSIDE the box, of how it is done NOW and that this radical new thing can't work...Well, if we can drum up enough support for this to get 50-100 initial women who are willing to take a chance with $20, for one month, I believe that by the end of 1 month, we'd be seeing results enough to make it 2 months, and by 2 months, the traffic would be flowing, regulars would be established etc.
Either way, we'll see...But when it is finally put before you to have a site be exactly what you'd want...don't blow it and be negative...give us what you believe WILL make it the best place.
So far we have a few things...
High Traffic, of a high quality is obvious, but it is the "selling point" for most women it seems. A pretty site, a rotating galleries, etc. Not so much...Traffic rules the day. So assume we get the agreement we want, in writing for traffic shaping. What next?
ESPECIALLY if we can work on things to make the chargebacks become a non-issue, we can RULE this. Because I believe chargebacks are, next to poor traffic, the most important and irritating part of Indy camming.
B.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
So would the site have its own payment processor? I don't know much about avoiding chargebacks, but it would seem in order to minimize them we would have to have all of the guys paying through one place instead of each girl using their own processors (maybe I'm wrong though).
A place to upload videos/pic sets for customers to purchase while we're offline would be awesome.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
ESPECIALLY if we can work on things to make the chargebacks become a non-issue, we can RULE this. Because I believe chargebacks are, next to poor traffic, the most important and irritating part of Indy camming.
B.
Exactly. And most of those guys are actually repeat offenders. There needs to be some kind of "3 strike" rule. (Pick what ever # limit is appropriate). If someone has done 20 or so chargebacks in one month, I think their motives are pretty clear.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
I'm still thinking inside the box here. Hmmm...
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Christany
Exactly. And most of those guys are actually repeat offenders. There needs to be some kind of "3 strike" rule. (Pick what ever # limit is appropriate). If someone has done 20 or so chargebacks in one month, I think their motives are pretty clear.
Several independent sites use CCBill, and from what I understand if you do a chargeback on CCBill only once you are blocked for life.
I think even 3 strikes are too much.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
laurielegs
I think even 3 strikes are too much.
I totally agree !
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
I say after 1 chargeback, you need to have your email, username, AND ip address banned. Of course they can always change their username and ip, but still, at least make it hard for them to come back
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BustyAmeera
I say after 1 chargeback, you need to have your email, username, AND ip address banned. Of course they can always change their username and ip, but still, at least make it hard for them to come back
You can also hide you IP :) There are multiple ways to do that.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BustyAmeera
I should have know! lol
Ok, so ONE strike they are out. No second chances. At least not so long as the site has pro girls who actually do the show. If the guy watches the show, he doesn't get any chargeback. Period. Zero tolerance. This place is being built to make things better for models.
I really think we've struck on something wonderful here. Because THIS is just as important as the actual indy site....Some way for us to verify the users as "Non-Scammers"...Most Indy sites barely pay lip service to actually stopping the chagebacks, and the best I've seen is the warning on the guys who are first timers.
So...I got an idea...model the whole thing as a club. This way we hand out usernames based on real names. That way we cut down on the anonymous asshole factor.
Whattya guys think?
B.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
So...I got an idea...model the whole thing as a club. This way we hand out usernames based on real names. That way we cut down on the anonymous asshole factor.
Hmm I don't know. I think a lot of good guys out there enjoy the anonymous factor and would shy away from having to give it up. I have a few really good regs that don't like to give out much info of themselves. I think it would help with fraud, but might keep legit guys from signing up.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
Please, name some sites that will tell users when you are on and off Yahoo/IMs and also gives you a full webpage to post pics and prices and so on like the Indy sites do, that doesn't charge a dime. I'd love to find some more of THOSE resources. Especially if they also have verified traffic.
If you are talking about Indy sites, they take 20% of your money or MORE.
Oh, and generally, traffic is a joke on most sites. As I said earlier, the indy sites are TERRIBLE at traffic propagation. Go look how they get their traffic, it's all evident from their links page.
This site would either give a StatCounter report to all prospective users, showing hits to the site or a Google Analytics report.
However, I believe models have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot quite often. See, it is quite likely this site will fail. It is a great idea and could make HUGE money for models. It is a no-lose proposition. Ah, but wait...for it to be no lose, the models who are all quite cynical, would have to trust that someone who spends weeks programming a site and setting up pages and so on, and who signs a contract to spend a minimum of 25% on traffic...will do so. Since buying 100,000 hits of traffic, for a CamModel site that has NO cam-models, would be not only business suicide, but also useless and a ridiculous. This is why for this to work, the owners will need at least 50 models at $20. Which gets them the content which allows buying traffic. After reading today and thinking about this, I told them I think it should be $20 per month for those who PRE-Order a page, and everyone who comes after opening day pays $50 per month. Since by the end of the first month, the traffic would be in the 10s of thousands and worthwhile at $50...so the $20 price (forever, as long as an original sticks with the site) would be a perpetual thank you to those who signed up as first responders willing to take a chance on something.
This also has the definite positive spin of keeping the "club" somewhat exclusive and keeping the membership down to a number that allows all online models to always be on the first and second pages.
Hmm...this could work quite well I think.
A new tool for Indy girls.
B.
Sorry Bambalina sounds like alot of big talk to me alot of hype , it's so easy to say all these big traffic numbers but its alot more work to really get the traffic even if you pay for traffic it might not convert.
To pay to be listed on any cam site i would never do. I would rather list myself for free with many yahoo sites and share in the % then give money upfront.
I don't like the idea but thats just me.
The whole thing sounds to much like sales hype and a very easy way for some new site to come into the business and grab 50 models cash real fast and then disapear of the planet..
any really good yahoo cam site takes time to grow and alot of effort nothing happens over night and any site who promises to come into the business that strong that fast i would not feel safe trusting..
sorry just my feelings..
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
Ok, so ONE strike they are out. No second chances. At least not so long as the site has pro girls who actually do the show. If the guy watches the show, he doesn't get any chargeback. Period. Zero tolerance. This place is being built to make things better for models.
I really think we've struck on something wonderful here. Because THIS is just as important as the actual indy site....Some way for us to verify the users as "Non-Scammers"...Most Indy sites barely pay lip service to actually stopping the chagebacks, and the best I've seen is the warning on the guys who are first timers.
So...I got an idea...model the whole thing as a club. This way we hand out usernames based on real names. That way we cut down on the anonymous asshole factor.
Whattya guys think?
B.
the whole point of a yahoo cam site is to not be something a guy needs a membership for or user names to log in. As for charge backs in yahoo shows the % is very low.
Dealing with time wasting guys on yahoo chatting with you happens this is the cam business you cant avoid this 100% it's apart of the sex business.
a perfect world will never happen.. I have been a cam girl for 8 years and i just dont agree with the ideas sorry
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
Great, because this is the sort of thing we're discussing in the other thread. How we can make the women who WORK become a part of the action, so to speak.
I have heard and read so many complaints over the years about how things are run and that if it was designed by the people who perform or even the patrons, how different and cool it would be. Well, often when that gets offered, the performers shoot it down, or can only think INSIDE the box, of how it is done NOW and that this radical new thing can't work...Well, if we can drum up enough support for this to get 50-100 initial women who are willing to take a chance with $20, for one month, I believe that by the end of 1 month, we'd be seeing results enough to make it 2 months, and by 2 months, the traffic would be flowing, regulars would be established etc.
Either way, we'll see...But when it is finally put before you to have a site be exactly what you'd want...don't blow it and be negative...give us what you believe WILL make it the best place.
So far we have a few things...
High Traffic, of a high quality is obvious, but it is the "selling point" for most women it seems. A pretty site, a rotating galleries, etc. Not so much...Traffic rules the day. So assume we get the agreement we want, in writing for traffic shaping. What next?
ESPECIALLY if we can work on things to make the chargebacks become a non-issue, we can RULE this. Because I believe chargebacks are, next to poor traffic, the most important and irritating part of Indy camming.
B.
so you want 100 girls at 20.00 for the month so you get 2000 just to so called start the site and promise by the 2nd month after you have 4000 that the site will be rocking with traffic.. sounds like a fast way to grab alot of money!
there are cam sites out there right now who are run by real cam models abd who focus on them but they sure dont ask for a pile of money..
Sorry sounds fishy if your yahoo cam site will be so good you dont need to charge us money to be listed!
I am not trying to be rude but to me this is not good logic or something i would trust..
You want the site to have all this paid traffic then come up with the ad money yourself but dont try and get all the girls to pool the money togather for you and again you could just take the money and run!
Paid traffic is known to be low quality traffic in the first place like traffic holder crap traffic.
Good luck
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
Several good tutorials here about Indy work.
Generally, Indy work involves using your own IM platforms (yahoo, skype (most popular at the moment), Live, and some older ones like camfrog or ICQ pop up from time to time. Most indy sites out there allow you to list with them, and they take 20%-30% for this. They pay you, because they want control and to be able to take their percentage out, and most of them still pass chargebacks on to you. So the advantages over NOT using them are minimal, except that they, by virtue of having 100 or 1000 or whatever # girls registered, get lots more traffic than you do on a solo site. So I kickstarted the process to get a site going that accomplishes this while ONLY providing the services we NEED.
Malaya actually inspired this work from me in many ways, and I give her credit for that.
Since I am working with people that I know can get a site MAJOR traffic, I personally think that if they need $15-$18 per girl to be profitable and make it worthwhile, then WE really need to think about doing the smart thing and getting them to buy more bandwidth and traffic to the point of saturation, but this would require a level of co-operation that I cannot fathom in THIS business, where the owner of the site has to come to just to get peace, much less a co-op that could change camming forever.
:)
B.
I have never had a yahoo cam site take charge back money from me! ever!
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
salemsexy
Sorry Bambalina sounds like alot of big talk to me alot of hype , it's so easy to say all these big traffic numbers but its alot more work to really get the traffic even if you pay for traffic it might not convert.
To pay to be listed on any cam site i would never do. I would rather list myself for free with many yahoo sites and share in the % then give money upfront.
I don't like the idea but thats just me.
The whole thing sounds to much like sales hype and a very easy way for some new site to come into the business and grab 50 models cash real fast and then disapear of the planet..
any really good yahoo cam site takes time to grow and alot of effort nothing happens over night and any site who promises to come into the business that strong that fast i would not feel safe trusting..
sorry just my feelings..
No need to be sorry. It's just a disagreement. I think what you say is flawed. But only because I have seen how easy it really is to build traffic numbers. I think the sites you are referring to are INCREDIBLY nervy in charging 20%-30% and then not bringing in huge amounts of webcam traffic. I see it that we who use indy sites are being ripped a new butthole, but because there is very little alternative, we smile and talk about how "high paying" they are.
I also have serious doubts about the word "never" as you use it above. It is possible that now that I say this, you might never sign up. But in general, even the biggest doubter will sign up and pay the $50 a month for late-comers, if every girl who has signed up on this board is getting 4 or 5 shows per day every day. Those that don't? Well, a poor busines choice is everyone's prerogative.
Next...every site out there that takes forever to grow, takes forever for a reason. MySpace and Twitter and Facebook and Google and all of the best sites out there prive what you say to be absolutely wrong. The BEST sites get popular overnight. The BEST sites with original design and ideas grow quickly because they fill a true need. Lastly, the BEST sites have people working for them who actually understand web promotion. THAT is what sets apart a truly great web site.
Lastly, I take slight offense to your assertion that I, as one of the principles involved in this whole project would be scamming the ladies here. So. lets look at these words here:
"very easy way for some new site to come into the business and grab 50 models cash real fast and then disapear of the planet"
So...I and a few other people...send me in as a mole, to post for weeks and become the "most hated person on SW" and all that, so that I can get 50 women to sign up for something. That will bring in $1000 TOTAL, ever, if it up and disappears. I (or my hidden cohorts) will have web designers write a web site and program all the stuff necessary to make it work (this leaves out the fact that any DECENT designer makes $40-$100 per hour) and buy a domain and put up the site and pay hosting for it...So I can get $1000 and disappear. Is this what you are saying up there? Seriously?
Personally I think the words Very Easily are a problem no matter what, since the whole scheme would be VERY complicated and very hard to pull off, and all for $1000.
So we will agree to disagree. Enough people on here, know that I know ENOUGH about the web that a $1000 StripperWeb Sting is not worth the huge amount of time and effort I have put in here. It is an entertaining plot to a short story though.
B.
PS. Also...I am NOT recruiting off of here. I have no desire to recruit. I want opinions on the site. Anyone here honestly think I'd have ANY trouble recruiting from the major cam sites? From the Indy sites? From backpage? Getting 50 girls will be the least of my worries in that sense.
So let it be said...One thing true thusfar. This is conjecture, and so far, she's right, it's hype until the programmers can deliver me a website to promote. I have never seen THESE people fail to deliver before, but it COULD happen. For now though, we're just pipedreaming...
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
salemsexy
the whole point of a yahoo cam site is to not be something a guy needs a membership for or user names to log in. As for charge backs in yahoo shows the % is very low.
Dealing with time wasting guys on yahoo chatting with you happens this is the cam business you cant avoid this 100% it's apart of the sex business.
a perfect world will never happen.. I have been a cam girl for 8 years and i just dont agree with the ideas sorry
Ok, so...does everyone kind of agree with this post? I mean it is the only one from Salem that really presents constructive ideas and is not just a negative tear down.
Let me ask it right out. Do you guys feel the possibility/probability of chargebacks is low enough that you would be willing to not have any stringent measures in place to keep them from happening?
When I've asked other places, I've gotten that several camgirls when they tried to do shows on skype etc. Got chargebacks and quit doing them.
So you tell me.
B.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
salemsexy
so you want 100 girls at 20.00 for the month so you get 2000 just to so called start the site and promise by the 2nd month after you have 4000 that the site will be rocking with traffic.. sounds like a fast way to grab alot of money!
there are cam sites out there right now who are run by real cam models abd who focus on them but they sure dont ask for a pile of money..
Sorry sounds fishy if your yahoo cam site will be so good you dont need to charge us money to be listed!
I am not trying to be rude but to me this is not good logic or something i would trust..
You want the site to have all this paid traffic then come up with the ad money yourself but dont try and get all the girls to pool the money togather for you and again you could just take the money and run!
Paid traffic is known to be low quality traffic in the first place like traffic holder crap traffic.
Good luck
Sigh. Ok, last of the negative messages I really want to respond to here. If you truly don;t think it will work, I cannot stop you from posting here, but I'd like to keep the thread MORE about ideas for a workable site, that negative posts which have no real substantial truth or meat to them. I mean it's easy to go "they are trying to rip you off!" without actually thinking about the amount of work necessary to rip off these girls, when doing the site and having it work is JUST AS EASY as what you posit. Did you even think about that? If I have a working site up and running, why the HELL would I ever run away and disappear? And no-one will be asked to give a dime until a working site is up and running and can be demo'd. So your accusations hold no water.
Secondly, you didn't read very well. I said the site would running well enough but the END of the FIRST month (ie before the second month is paid) that it would be obvious that you would do well. In other words, if all the girls make at least enough to pay the $20 and still come out making 75% or more of their money, then going to month 2 is a GOOD INVESTMENT. See?
Again, here we go:
"sounds like a fast way to grab alot of money!"
several weeks or months of R&D, web design, domain and webhosting and start-up costs, plus showing IDs and getting accounts so we can receive this money, all for $1000-$2000. Seriously?
"pile of money"
$20...it is a pile...if we use $1 bills. Also, I completely disagree that asking for 20%-30% is not asking for a pile of money. If a woman makes even $500 in a MONTH on these sites, she is paying them a MINIMUM of $100 of her money..if she is making $1000 we double it, $5000, she's paying $1000 per month!!! That is a HUGE pile of money compared to $20 and the site doesn't take a dime more if you make $100, $5000, or $100,000....No matter what, it's $20 per month. You HONESTLY think percentage deals are better? Wow...
"if your yahoo cam site will be so good you don't need to charge us money to be listed!"
True, because those others who charge you 20%+ are altruistically giving away their services to you free. That 20%? Ignore that..it's just, um, a donation! being charged a percentage of everything you make is never better in my opinion. I think some women will buy it, because they are so USED to the baited hook of "it's free upfront!" that it signals "Good Deal"...
So let's try this...tomorrow Streamate or MFC go to a model of "$20 per day to cam here and you keep 100% of tips and earnings"...Would any of you NOT jump on that? So tell me which is better, a small upfront fee, or a BIG back end that eats your earnings away? Are any of you even going to miss the $20 that is "trying this site for one month"? This is a silly debate.
Lastly:
"Paid traffic is known to be low quality traffic in the first place like traffic holder crap traffic."
This shows me there will be no point in debating this further. Please, go read adult webmaster resources out there. Paid traffic depending on sources, ifs the absolute BEST traffic you can get and converts at 5-10 times ANY OTHER traffic. But that is not even the point here. Because your statement leaves out so much and ignores reality.
If one puts up a web-site, traffic has to come from somewhere. There are two possibilities. Paid sources, and free sources. So what you are saying is that paid traffic (and you don't even say most, or some, you just lump ALL paid traffic together) is low quality traffic, and this then would follow that FREE traffic is High Quality traffic. Because traffic HAS to come FROM somewhere...it is the nature of the World Wide Web. So, the best free traffic comes from the Search Engines, so google started selling those litte ads on the right of the screen, and this is PAID Search Engine traffic.
So where does this great traffic come from that your indy sites use...That is a thread of its own...watch for it.
B.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
"The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over-and-over again expecting different results."
With this said, I will be likely trying this service because $20 is a bet I'm willing to take on a potential gold mine of traffic. If it's not, I cancel. No sweat off my back. I spend that on coffee in 3 days. If $20 is too steep then I would suggest hustling on SM, LJ or AW and get a following/get your money right and then give it a try on indy;)
HUGS!
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
This is too much for me to comment on. *SIGH*
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
i got a good experience in websfinest, and its an indy site. I will give it a chance bcause it can be good too and even better, maybe it will not work, who knows.Bambalina seems a smart person. I know the idea about pay for be listed is controversial, but lets see... if it have succes (and i hope to) its a good deal. Bambalina had shown knowledge about move traffic, advertising, promotion, etc.
So isnt so bad be listed in a place that can give us all that withot move a single finger (exept for finger yourself 4 a customer :D)
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
^^^ Dirrrrrty! HHAHA... but true.
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Re: Independent CamGirl Listing site. What would make it Perfect?
Bambalina - here's my opinion if you care for it ......
A busy indy style site for girls to use where girls pay a flat rate to be listed is a great idea.( Girls spend much more than 20$ on good traffic if they own their own sites ) . The vast majority of indy sites takes 35-30% of income. I think the problem does not lie with the fact girls are used to the baited hook that it's free up front, but rather the fact they don't pay anything unless there is traffic , it guarantees they don't pay something for nothing . I'm sure if you asked most girls regarding the indy sites they currently work on , if they would rather swap to pay a small advertising fee, they would jump at the chance , because it's sites they know and trust to be busy to make it worth while.
Personally 20$ is nothing , and if I thought it looked like somewhere I could get even one new customer I wouldn't think twice about joining.......
I was just giving my opinion on why I think you're getting the reaction that surprises you with girls not wanting to pay a flat fee. If your site gets busy , I'm sure people will pay much more than 20$ to be listed ;-) . An introductory period could be a worthy investment .