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Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
The more I read about the human trafficking epidemic, the more I am beginning to understand why business keeps getting worse for strippers.
Las Vegas is ground zero for human trafficking the USA. Our police are doing nothing to stop it. All they do is arrest the victims. It makes no sense at all. They never arrest the john's or do any stings targeting john's. Even when they say they are going to target pimps they don't. All they do is arrest the victims.
http://www.sharedhope.org/what/enddemand4.asp
How can strippers fight this? We obviously can't compete with slavery.
I believe prostitution should be decriminalized for the prostitutes only.
Myths and Facts about Legalized Prostitution
Warning some people will find some of the statements offensive. Even I don't agree with ALL of the statements.
http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/...ion-facts.html
http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/...-research.html
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Sorry this may cause some drama but I couldn't help but to mention..
I'm lol'ing at the prostitution link ... whoever created that site does not have a clue what they're talking about. Sounds like a very ignorant/naive person.. clearly.
I'm NOT for legalizing prostitution though but I am for decriminalization of prostitution. That
article is bullshit. Until one has worked as a prostituted/highend escort they know NOTHING
about being a sex worker. I'm stuck on the "pimp" comment.. wow. Ignorance is not bliss!
Clearly a closed-minded hater. Those facts sound more like personal opinion.
@Human Trafficking: I have to agree the police arresting the victims makes no sense at all.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
malayataylor
I'm stuck on the "pimp" comment.. wow. Ignorance is not bliss!
Clearly a closed-minded hater. Those facts sound more like personal opinion.
@Human Trafficking: I have to agree the police arresting the victims makes no sense at all.
I am also for decriminalization of prostitution. The websites that I have looked at on the subject of human trafficking also do not think that victims of human trafficking should be arrested. They are the victims, not the criminals. Even if human trafficking was not bad for the stripping industry I would still want to try to make the police go after the criminals and not the victims. The reason that I am focused on this even more now is because we just had another bust here in Vegas where no johns were arrested. They never are.
I just want to see what others have to say on this topic and if anyone else has any ideas on how we can demand better treatment of women in our individual communities.
I am just tired of cops harassing women in Las Vegas and never going after the pimps and johns. To me it seems like we have serious discrimination against women in this city. It might be different where you live. I feel that the focus on arresting victims and not johns and pimps is unacceptable. That is why I started this thread.
http://www.justice.gov/olp/pdf/catw-letter.pdf
What pimp comment are you talking about that you feel is close minded?
Where I live we have a lot of pimps. They are everywhere. I have only met one pimp who "seemed" nice. Most girls who dance out here will tell you that the pimps are a real pain in the ass. They are very disrespectful.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
What pimp comment are you talking about that you feel is close minded?
Where I live we have a lot of pimps. They are everywhere. I have only met one pimp who "seemed" nice. Most girls who dance out here will tell you that the pimps are a real pain in the ass. They are very disrespectful.
There is no such thing as a "nice" pimp. A pimp is a pimp. Escort agencies are pimps (dosen't matter if they're high end/low end/mid range.. they're fucking pimps.. I never said anything about a pimp being nice. I was referring to the comment about healthcare services being pimp dominated. I just thought it was very stupid.
Smart women study the business and become independent. Period. I feel bad for the girls that allow themselves to get pimped then again I have never met one just because the ladies in my social circle are independent escorts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
loren
I am also for decriminalization of prostitution. The websites that I have looked at on the subject of human trafficking also do not think that victims of human trafficking should be arrested.
What pimp comment are you talking about that you feel is from a close minded hater?
I just want to see what others have to say on this topic and if anyone else has any ideas on how we can demand better treatment of women in our individual communities. I feel that the focus on arresting victims and not johns and pimps is really a big part of the problem.
I will get to the pimp comment here in a few.. I just thought THIS was also hilarioius
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4. MYTH Women choose to enter prostitution. It’s better to choose to make lots of money as a prostitute than to choose to work at a minimum wage job like McDonald’s.
FACT: It is profoundly unjust to declare that prostitution is an acceptable job for some women - those who are mostly poor, mostly women of color, mostly young. Prostitution is an intrinsically abusive institution and women stay poor in prostitution (although lots of cash passes through their hands on the way to pimps, stripclub managers, bartenders, taxi drivers, casino hosts and other predators).
This is false (The supposed "fact")
First of all, As an independent escort, I do my own screening and everything else on my own .. there is NO Middleman.
I have more money that the 50 year olds that I know working corporate jobs. I also have more money and can do a lot more than cashier/manager at Mcdonalds. Prostitution is NOT abusive. Sure there are pimps/manager/predators that prey on young beautiful women but this is not the case for independent escort/business women like myself. LOL @ cash passes through their hands on the way to pimps, strip club managers, bartenders, taxi drivers, casino hosts and other predators.. I guess whoever wrote this article just felt the need to make this stuff up. As an independent escort, I have two cars in the garage why would I need a taxi driver?, I conduct my business from home online and NOT a strip club or a casino .. so that eliminates the idea of money passing a bartender's hand.
Sorry I rather get fucked for $475 an hour than $7 an hour...hell even $20 an hour. I am in the happiness business. I love my job.. People love thinking that all prostitutes walk the streets and are forced into prostitution by some guy ..this is not true. Alot of us are smarter than that. I got into this business willingly.. I just thought I'm single, why fuck for free? when I can $$$$$$ doing it.
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6. MYTH: Most prostitution does not involve pimps.
FACT: Most prostitution involves pimps. Health service providers, shelter staff, survivors of prostitution, and law enforcement sources estimate that 65%-85% of all prostitution is pimp-dominated.
This is just the most stupidest thing I've ever read.
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5. MYTH : Prostitution is a victimless crime. Legal prostitution protects women in prostitution.
FACT: All prostitution harms those in it. Legal prostitution does not protect women in prostitution from harm.
Now the only reason I don't want prostitution legalized is because the price of companionship will go from $2000 an hour to $20 an hour .. Well everyone will be doing it. That would just suck! However if it were legalized the government could force prostitutes to get tested /report their test every few months. This would make the industry a safer place. (I could go on and on about this but I'll leave it here)
Quote:
12. MYTH: Pornography and stripping are not prostitution.
FACT: Pornography, stripping/exotic dancing/lap dancing are almost always prostitution.
This is the only thing on that website that I agree with.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
9. MYTH: Social stigma is the most harmful aspect of prostitution.
FACT: The worst thing about prostitution is not social stigma, it is rape, strangulation, beatings, toxic verbal abuse, and other violence from johns and pimps.
This is why we screen. I have been doing this for almost 2 years and never had a bad date. I have also always said your rate attracts a certain type of client. At $475 an hour I don't have fat truck drivers/ average joe blows coming to see me BUT I do have banker, Lawyers, doctors and Prominent businessmen/CEOs as clients because they have that kind of money.
There are women that charge up to 2k an hour. They attract a different Caliber of clientele. This is FACT!
I have never been raped, I have never been beating, I have never been strangled or abused in anyway. I love how people watch tv and start making assumptions. Escorting/ Prostitution is all about class. There are different classes of escorts. For one, I'm not one of those girls you see advertising on craigslist. Hell, I hardly ever advertise to keep a somewhat "low profile".
Low class escorts are subject to abuse because they make themselves available to everyone and they DO NOT screen. It is unfortunate. Alot of women get into this business with their eyes shut and no smarts at all.
The chance of an escort on my level getting abused/arrested is very very slim. *knocks on wood* Just because there are certain measures (screening) we take that others don't.
Screening involves ALOT!
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Thank you for your insight. It sounds like you have been successful and have your act together.
The purpose of this thread is really to discuss how human trafficking and the lack of prosecution of johns and pimps by law enforcement has created an atmosphere of hostility and discrimination against women.
I can't tell you how many guys have said why do 3 songs for $100 in VIP plus drink minimum when I can have sex for less $$.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
There was a problem here where several clubs hired sex slaves. Did they know these girls (all were from Eastern Europe) were slaves? I don't know but they needed to go after the pimps to stop human trafficking. These women often didn't know they were going to be sex slaves. To me it doesn't matter whether they prostitute or not, if they are doing it against their will it's slavery.
Something has to be done with prostitution though. The pimps and johns need to be arrested more often. I am NOT talking about escorts, etc. I am talking the streetwalkers who are usually pushed into for drugs or for pimps. I am talking about women brought to this country to be strippers or prostitute. Not arresting these women but the men who did it to them.
Speaking of pimps, we don't want to admit this, but in many cases they are in strip clubs. There is another thread where someone mentioned how they are coming to her club. I've seen them in clubs myself and a club I worked at had them. I later found out a club I worked at had a manager who was pimping out girls. It's their choice but pimps are taking advantage of women. I once dated a guy who was a pimp and found out luckily. He seemed sweet until a little bit later on. Once I found out I dumped him but he caused me a lot of trouble and even got me fired at a club (he was a DJ too).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
malayataylor
I have more money that the 50 year olds that I know working corporate jobs. I also have more money and can do a lot more than cashier/manager at Mcdonalds. Prostitution is NOT abusive. Sure there are pimps/manager/predators that prey on young beautiful women but this is not the case for independent escort/business women like myself. LOL @ cash passes through their hands on the way to pimps, strip club managers, bartenders, taxi drivers, casino hosts and other predators.. I guess whoever wrote this article just felt the need to make this stuff up. As an independent escort, I have two cars in the garage why would I need a taxi driver?, I conduct my business from home online and NOT a strip club or a casino .. so that eliminates the idea of money passing a bartender's hand.
Sorry I rather get fucked for $475 an hour than $7 an hour...hell even $20 an hour. I am in the happiness business. I love my job.. People love thinking that all prostitutes walk the streets and are forced into prostitution by some guy ..this is not true. Alot of us are smarter than that. I got into this business willingly.. I just thought I'm single, why fuck for free? when I can $$$$$$ doing it.
The money issue is why many get into it. It certainly was for me. I could either make $200+ a night dancing or make that in two weeks working fulltime at a minimum wage job. A minimum wage job where I'd have to bust my butt and deal with rudeness, lots of stress, etc, especially if I was going to college (as was the case). I got tired of this and figured why not make the amount in one day I made in a week or two and have more time? Incidentally, when I started nude modeling and dancing I made the Deans List in college, whereas when I was working fulltime at a store I struggled because I didn't have time to study.
Another reason why women get into the adult industry is because of the lack of opportunities for women. We still live in a world where women are paid less than men, even with more experience. Many women I've known who got into the business didn't want to be strippers, porn actresses or escorts but those were their only choices unless they worked minimum wage. I've known even college grads who got into it because they could make more than a recent women grad.
ETA: I remember once at a club this woman was protesting and told me she could "save my soul". I had to tell her I didn't need saving because I knew what I was getting into. I didn't live the "lifestyle" and to me dancing was a job only.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
A. this phenomenon is certainly not confined to Vegas
B. there have been a couple of high profile busts on the east coast. One I know some details about involving an eastern european 'pimp' arranging for US work visas on the basis of backing a ficticious 'ethnic dance' troup. He then trolled his eastern european home country for a bunch of hot girls who were eager to come to the USA and work as dancers. Once paying for their trip and bringing them to America, however, he set them up as 'strippers' and posed an ultimatum to the girls to either pay him $1000 a week ( or whatever ) or he would take back their work visa and call immigration to have them deported. Apparently additional retributions were also threatened in regard to girls' other family members who still lived in the eastern european home country.
C. because of the financial pressure / LE deportation threat / 'retribution' threat, these 'strippers' were encouraged to offer high levels of extras and OTC pay for play in order to make sure that they had earned sufficient cash at the end of the week to pay this 'pimp'
D. the increased availability of high level extras and OTC pay for play that these eastern european 'strippers' began offering in the clubs they were working at quickly prompted some number of 'home-grown' dancers to do the same in order to avoid a collapse in their earnings potential.
E. with the club itself gaining a reputation for widespread extras and OTC activities, LE's attention was attracted and the club was busted. As a result of the testimony under interrogation given by the eastern european girls, this eastern european guy was SERIOUSLY busted !
Unfortunately, the above situation is probably occurring in most major US cities !!!
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
I wish prostitution was decriminalized, but Malaya makes a good point about the financial repercussions for prostitutes if it was completely legalized. A simple $200 ticket or something would be affordable for any prostitute worth her weight in gold.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
^^^ well be careful what you wish for. In Germany, where prostitution is more or less legal, a very touchy situation developed ... which required the German national gov't to step in before all hell broke loose.
In Germany like the USA most businesses have to pay into unemployment insurance funds. However, in Germany, brothels are legal businesses. So one day a brothel is short of prostitutes and decides to post an ad through the local unemployment office. Following non-discrimination rules, the unemployment office starts sending hot young unemployed girls for interviews. The brothel owner would gladly hire many of the girls that the unemployment office sent in the brothel's direction. However, the unemployed girls did not want to work as prostitutes and refused to take the job offered.
Again following non-discrimination rules, the unemployment office promptly threatened to cancel the future unemployment benefit checks of unemployed secretaries, teachers, and other 'straight' careers who turned down the jobs offered by the brothel. Legally speaking, working as a prostitute was not illegal ... and the brothel owner was abiding by the 'rules' of the German unemployment system ... thus the unemployed girls had voluntarily refused to accept a legal job offer and therefore should forfeit their unemployment benefits.
Fortunately, this issue somehow made its way to the german national gov't almost immediately, and a specific new law had to be written to exempt a refusal to work as a prostitute from disqualifying an unemployed girl from receiving unemployment benefits. However, this also allowed brothel owners to avoid having to pay the german gov't for unemployment services that they were not able to use.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
^^^ well be careful what you wish for. In Germany, where prostitution is more or less legal, a very touchy situation developed ... which required the German national gov't to step in before all hell broke loose.
In Germany like the USA most businesses have to pay into unemployment insurance funds. However, in Germany, brothels are legal businesses. So one day a brothel is short of prostitutes and decides to post an ad through the local unemployment office. Following non-discrimination rules, the unemployment office starts sending hot young unemployed girls for interviews. The brothel owner would gladly hire many of the girls that the unemployment office sent in the brothel's direction. However, the unemployed girls did not want to work as prostitutes and refused to take the job offered.
Again following non-discrimination rules, the unemployment office promptly threatened to cancel the future unemployment benefit checks of unemployed secretaries, teachers, and other 'straight' careers who turned down the jobs offered by the brothel. Legally speaking, working as a prostitute was not illegal ... and the brothel owner was abiding by the 'rules' of the German unemployment system ... thus the unemployed girls had voluntarily refused to accept a legal job offer and therefore should forfeit their unemployment benefits.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/05/01/Ge...stitution.html
Fortunately, this issue somehow made its way to the german national gov't almost immediately, and a specific new law had to be written to exempt a refusal to work as a prostitute from disqualifying an unemployed girl from receiving unemployment benefits. However, this also allowed brothel owners to avoid having to pay the german gov't for unemployment services that they were not able to use.
lol this situation is somewhat comical. but glad it was resolved quickly.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
As stated, I would want decriminalization, not legalization.
In my state medical marijuana is legal, but recreational use is illegal. In my city it is completely illegal to possess marijuana and will generally lead to an arrest and a felony or misdemeanor conviction depending on the circumstances and amount. In a city about an hour from me, called Ann Arbor, MI marijuana is decriminalized but not legal. This means if you get pulled over with pot you'll receive a ticket and the drugs will be seized, but you won't be arrested or do any jail time. I like this system because while they are not legalizing the use and sale of the drug, they are lessening the penalties because they recognize that a little pot smoking should not constitute jail time. I think if prostitution was treated the same way things would be a lot simpler. It would help the cities/states raise revenue by ticketing the activities while still keeping the jail cells freed up for actual criminals who are posing a threat to the well being of others!
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Michigan sounds like a good place.
I also think pot should be completely legal because some people are not able to drink alcohol because of health related issues. I think it would be good for business because it would create so many jobs. It would also make the crime level go down dramatically. No one gets into fights because of pot.
I really need to get a regular job or somehow save money to move out of this town. My finances are so bad that I would consider working at a brothel if I thought that I could handle it. I am too freaked out about diseases and I don't think I could handle having so much sex. It would make me sore. Plus the fact that I am actually pretty conservative in real life. I would not want to do a lot of the things that those girls have to do.
I really don't want to see legalized prostitution in Las Vegas or nationwide. It would devastate job opportunities for women. And I can't imagine that girls working in strip clubs in places like Parump would make any money. I wonder if they even have strip clubs out there.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
It really seems to me that the whole human trafficking issue has been really overblown to further the agenda of the anti-sex industry crowd. A lot of studies define "trafficked" women as any foreign women doing sex work in another country, making no distinction between people who are truly forced into something against their will, and those who are working in the country of their own accord.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
loren
Michigan sounds like a good place.
I also think pot should be completely legal because some people are not able to drink alcohol because of health related issues. I think it would be good for business because it would create so many jobs. It would also make the crime level go down dramatically. No one gets into fights because of pot.
I really need to get a regular job or somehow save money to move out of this town. My finances are so bad that I would consider working at a brothel if I thought that I could handle it. I am too freaked out about diseases and I don't think I could handle having so much sex. It would make me sore. Plus the fact that I am actually pretty conservative in real life. I would not want to do a lot of the things that those girls have to do.
I really don't want to see legalized prostitution in Las Vegas or nationwide. It would devastate job opportunities for women. And I can't imagine that girls working in strip clubs in places like Parump would make any money. I wonder if they even have strip clubs out there.
I never said Michigan was a good place, in fact it is far from it. ::)
Your link in your signature is a little bit offensive, in the myths and facts section. Lap dancing and stripping is not always prostitution, it depends on the person. I'm offended that they would generalize stripping with prostitution when in fact it depends on the individual dancer's decision. >:(
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Laurisa
Your link in your signature is a little bit offensive, in the myths and facts section. Lap dancing and stripping is not always prostitution, it depends on the person. I'm offended that they would generalize stripping with prostitution when in fact it depends on the individual dancer's decision. >:(
I do not agree with everything in the links either. I do think that there is a lot of information in the links though.
I know that there are clubs where the girls don't even do lap dances just table dances. I also know that most girls don't try to grind the guys til the blow a load. I will put a disclaimer in my signature about the links.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
malayataylor
Now the only reason I don't want prostitution legalized is because the price of companionship will go from $2000 an hour to $20 an hour
Why would that happen? I thought your rate was less than half that too.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
This is a very interesting topic. For many years I used to believe that prostitution should be legalized (or at least decriminalized). I felt it was a woman's choice to decide for herself how she should use her body. However, over the last couple years I have begun to reflect back on my own history in the sex industry and how I define personal choice. Overall, I believe that prostituion should remain illegal in the US. However, I do not feel the prostitues should be the ones getting arrested, the men purchasing the women should be held accountable. Also, in the world of prostiution, a 100% independent escort, is exempt from what I have to say. I think women that work independently are grown and can make their own decisions. But, their are many more women that work for someone other than themselves.
My first encounter with the sex industry was when I was 13. That's when I was put on the street (Sunset Blvd). However, I was much to feisty for the pimps and could never be controlled and got out within a year. My first pimp was actually Russian too lol. I always had thought they were black. Anyways, having been a child prostitute I think it helped me see the sex industry in a different way than maybe other women.
Also, to the topic of the post "human trafficking bad for strippers" that is true. Now it has been over 10 years since I've been a worker but back then the men with lots of money, rich men they didn't go to strip clubs they had private parties. I used to attend these parties with the other women I worked with. Millionaries, famous people. The first one I attended the man had children (I'm guessing spilt custody). He let me play in his kids room because I was too afraid to do anything sexually lol I was lucky that night. Point is you rarely ever see very very wealthy men in strip clubs because they almost always prefer a littel more privacy when being entertained. Which in the end is bad for strippers.
There's more I could say on this sunject but maybe another time.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
It's not about competing with slavery it is that human trafficking is wrong!
Be wary of sites like these. They are no better than the people they are trying to condemn.
There are only a few charities that do work to combat human trafficking so it's something you have to research.
I'd have to say that this social issue is much more important than busting prostitutes, buyers or sellers.
Human trafficking is when you force them to sell sex against their will.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zinaida
Why would that happen? I thought your rate was less than half that too.
It would happen because more people would want to become escorts.
Did i answer this? didn't understand it really.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
loren
I do not agree with everything in the links either. I do think that there is a lot of information in the links though.
I know that there are clubs where the girls don't even do lap dances just table dances. I also know that most girls don't try to grind the guys til the blow a load. I will put a disclaimer in my signature about the links.
speaking of your signature, I have to ask...why exactly do you believe that legalized prostitution would mean the end of strip clubs? It seems clear to me that various different aspects of the sex industry can exist side by side. prostitution is legal in Australia, and we've had plenty of girls here who dance in Australia and do very well.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elvia
speaking of your signature, I have to ask...why exactly do you believe that legalized prostitution would mean the end of strip clubs? It seems clear to me that various different aspects of the sex industry can exist side by side. prostitution is legal in Australia, and we've had plenty of girls here who dance in Australia and do very well.
*sigh* Ditto.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
malayataylor
"12. MYTH: Pornography and stripping are not prostitution.
FACT: Pornography, stripping/exotic dancing/lap dancing are almost always prostitution."
This is the only thing on that website that I agree with.
Interesting. Why do you consider porn, stripping and lapdancing to be prostitution? I've been thinking a lot about how to define prostitution, and would love to hear your take on it.
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
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Re: Human Trafficking bad for Strippers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elvia
speaking of your signature, I have to ask...why exactly do you believe that legalized prostitution would mean the end of strip clubs? It seems clear to me that various different aspects of the sex industry can exist side by side. prostitution is legal in Australia, and we've had plenty of girls here who dance in Australia and do very well.
It is very rare for me to see guys from Australia buying dances from anyone out here. Same thing with guys from Germany where prostitution is very common and legal. I meet guys from all over the world every day that I work. Anytime I meet guys from places where prostitution is legal they usually don't get dances. They just watch the stage without tipping and ask girls to go back to their hotel for sex. This has been my experience.