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Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Some of this book is pretty interesting and it's good to see this guys point of view and hear his stories, but some of it really needs some editing! It's pretty clear that Shannon Lechter pulled out his draft files and just threw it all together without even proofreading it before publishing... I keep finding a ton of typos and gaps in logic.
Anyways, it's making me want to take a year off from school again, so that I can work more at the club and purchase real estate or start my own business or whatever. This book is really convincing me that school is an overpriced waste of my money that is only bound to make a good worker in the "rat race", while I should be using my brains and applying it to something bigger and better, like forming my own corporation.
Help?
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
An utterly worthless book, and horribly written to boot.
All you need to take away from that book is the very basic concept of assets and liabilities; assets generate income, liabilities are costs. If you buy things that don't generate income, they're a liability. If you buy things that appreciate in value or generate income, they're assets.
Everything else in that book is utter tripe and real estate boom drivel.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
and an interesting outgrowth ... in today's US economy, is spending money on a college education an 'asset' or a 'liability' !
from
(snip)"$50,000: The number of colleges in the region that charge that much or more for tuition, room and board, and mandatory fees is expected to go up 100%
The Boston Globe reports:
A trip to space on Virgin Galactic. A Dior couture wedding gown. A Bentley Continental GT. These luxe indulgences each cost $200,000.
Add another item to the list: four years at a growing number of private colleges and universities.
Next year, the number of schools in the region that charge upwards of $50,000 annually for tuition, room and board, and mandatory fees is expected to more than double, according to a Globe survey of 20 colleges and universities. Just two years ago, less than a handful of schools cost that much (though many hovered just below the threshold.)
Among the latest members of the $50K Club: Harvard, MIT, Wellesley, Brandeis, Brown, Dartmouth, and Holy Cross. They join Tufts, Boston University, Boston College, Smith, Mount Holyoke, and Babson, which all broke the barrier this year.
College costs have been creeping up for decades, rising faster than inflation and average family incomes. But hitting $50,000 is a significant psychological milestone, education analysts say, and a tipping point that could scare families away from applying to private colleges.
For parents already reeling from the effects of the recession, it is causing sticker shock.
“It’s the most overpriced product you could possibly buy,’’ said Jim Scannell, a laid-off financial analyst whose son, a Natick High School senior, is applying only to public colleges because of their lower cost. “It’s frustrating because you encourage your kids to do their best to get into one of the best schools, but when it comes time to go to these good schools, we can’t afford it.’’
Where would these expensive tuitions be without Pell grants and other government loans? See what happens when the government artificially subsidized something. "(snip)
While this topic has been discussed in other threads, where dancers and college is concerned, the arguable fact remains that when dancers reduce / stop working in order to study for college they are actually forsaking a very high earnings potential and thus incurring a 'lost opportunity' cost. The concept of 'lost opportunity cost' refers to the fact that the ( extra ) money that the 20 something year old dancer could have earned by dancing instead of studying for college could have been used to purchase 'assets' ... assets that will continue to generate active or passive income in future years. If that 20 something year old dancer attends college, even if she is able to avoid accumulating a mountain of student debt via part time dancing earnings, she is still unable to accumulate those 'assets' and thus forsakes the active or passive income they would have generated in future years. This may be as simple as earning enough money to purchase a decent car for cash, versus having to take out a car loan and pay ~10% interest to the lender ... or as complex as investing $1000 of (extra) dancing earnings into silver bars or a commodity ETF and having that $1000 generate an additional $500 in passive investment earnings.
Additionally, these days, one needs to seriously consider the real world value of a college degree. In an environment where large numbers of somewhat older unemployed / underemployed Americans holding the same degree plus work experience are competing for 'entry level' jobs, and in an environment where a reduction in entry level positions now has new graduates from 'name' universities applying for some of the same entry level positions as new graduates from state colleges, two things are virtually certain. The first is, on the average, that the available entry level positions will carry lower rates of pay. The second is that new graduates of 'affordable' colleges will stand third in line at hiring time behind earlier graduates with real world work experience, and behind new graduates of 'name' universities.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
You know what though? I'm really not concerned at all with "getting hired" or "working for someone" for the money. I'm more in school for the classes I get to take there, or the connections that I can easily find through the school system.
Right now I'm studying at an arts school for a BFA (bachelor of fine arts) degree, taking classes like "mixed media sketchbook" or getting credits as Props Manager for a school play. I want to apply to study abroad in the summer or next year, either Traditional Chinese Medicine or Traditional Papermaking and Bookbinding- I'd get to live rural China and study with the native Naxi and Bai tribes that live in the mountains there.
Ultimately, I might like to get a masters degree in Painting at Yale, later on, and then even later, teach art as a college professor.
So, isn't the game a little different in the arts world? Or is it less different than I think?
I want to publish books- of my writing and my visual imagery, picture books most likely.
And/or I want to produce performance theatrical pieces- either writing the scripts, or directing the filming/choreography process.
They're just things I like to do, what I've already been gradually expanding and growing in... So I assume I'll be making these things bigger and better every year. I'm going to school to improve my creative skills, in a way, but also make valuable connections with professors and other people in the field. I know I can do the same without, I just figured school summarizes a lot, and saves me some effort and time. Really, i see that it might not even be true!
At the moment, it seems like I should finish my commitment for this semester, finish my term up until May, then take another "break" to work and build on my art-world-related base for at least a year or so. I'm thinking I want to save enough to buy cheap real estate to get started- a place that can double as a residency, as well as a venue for starting a simple retail business. I can also spend my time working on getting published- which can start bringing in royalties.
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Question: is it really worth going back to dancing NOW, if the economy is shaky and the money isn't great? I average at $300 a shift. Though I have a hunch I'm not making as much as I could if I weren't dividing my attention with school during the week.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Well it just so happens that my son is also studying towards a Fine Arts degree. So far he has received essentially zero real world revenues from his artwork, and is looking forward to near zero lucrative job offers when he graduates - most likely due to reduced state and local spending on museums and other arts related grants.
Agreed that if you are presently working under tuition that you have already paid for, it probably makes the most sense to finish out the semester or whatever.
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Question: is it really worth going back to dancing NOW, if the economy is shaky and the money isn't great? I average at $300 a shift. Though I have a hunch I'm not making as much as I could if I weren't dividing my attention with school during the week.
Well that's a question that only you can answer. However, one thing that I did glean from years of dancing is that girls who are college students first and dancers second typically lack earnings motivation. As long as they are able to earn enough to meet their near term needs ( next semester's tuition, next month's rent etc. ), they elect to conserve as much 'energy' as possible while working in the club, and elect to work as few days per week as they can get away with.
On the other hand 'serious professional dancers' look upon dancing as their first priority, thus generally maintain a higher 'energy' level while working, definitely work more days per week, etc. As a result they earn both more money per week, and also more money per hour worked.
As a theoretical exercise, working 5 days per week and cranking up your earnings potential by perhaps 20% to $360 would result in a gross income of around $90k a year ... with probable net income around $60k a year. If you were able to live on say $30k a year, and invest the other $30k, next year your investments could be providing say 7% * $30k = $2,100 of tax free income from state municipal bonds. Doing the same thing the following year would result in $4,200+ of tax free income from state muni bonds. Thus the 'opportunity cost' of pursuing a 4 year college degree, earning $30k per year working less hours / days to meet minimum living costs, and investing nothing, could actually amount to 'losing' $8,400+ of tax free annual income for the rest of your life ( totalling up to perhaps $336k over 40 years ), plus 'losing' the $120k worth of tax free bonds as well ! This is NOT a trivial amount by any means !
Granted that studying to be a doctor, an attorney, a financier etc. would eventually result in an annual earnings potential increase that would quickly overshadow the $456,000 in 'lost opportunity' cost that was incurred to obtain a 4 year degree versus dancing full time for those 4 years. However, for degrees leading to less lucrative professions, that 'lost opportunity' cost may never be recovered !!!
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
I went to Indiana University where I got my B.Sc. in Accounting. I passed the CPA and frankly thought I was set. But, in the middle 2000s, the world became obsessed with M.B.A.s. Why, I do not know, because, I learned everything they teach in M.B.A. school at I.U. But, since my fellowship paid for my tuition at Duke (a thoroughly over-rated college) and I needed an M.B.A. to get noticed, I got the ticket. And it is a ticket, nothing more and certainly not like the quality of education I got at I.U. Having said that, there is no way you can pass the C.P.A. exam without going to college. Same with the bar exam and medical licensing exam and the plumbing exam. I see college mostly as a trade school to teach you a specific base set of skills. Look at the income for the skill set and make your decision about going or not. My dad makes a good living being an ASE certified auto mechanic. (He makes a better living now with a daughter who has a C.P.A. and can do his books and taxes.) My dad has weekends off and closes the garage at 6:00 PM. He has about two years of trade schools and on going courses at factory schools. (Highlighting the need for continuing education.)
HTH
Z
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
I haven't read the book (though I would like to, if only for a reference) but in terms of is college "worth it"...well, that depends.
I think that there is a general trend toward "everyone go to college" - getting a degree just for the sake of it. This is what has made a masters degree so important for getting a job - when everyone has a degree, it means squat. You need a new barometer of discipline and education. So if you are planning to go into a "traditional" field, then you should be prepared to go for two (or more!) degrees.
Given that you are looking to work in arts...college really isn't that important. I dropped out of law school (it bored me to death!) and did a degree in interior design which I have not used. I would love to do a fine arts degree for the sheer learning - there is so much that I would love to learn from others - but this is something that I intend to do when I have my career on track, and a good financial footing (I own a home, have no debt, and have a solid income). You may find that you make connections through this system - you may also find that in the art world, these connections stand out less when they are made en masse with the rest of your graduating class than they would if you approached people as an aspiring artist.
Personally, if I were you, I would finish the semester, and then make some real decisions. If you want to publish, I would be more inclined to work up through a company now, rather than trying to get a degree first. If you want to travel, there are ways to do this without a school programme - and you may find that these are more flexible.
And bear in mind, like Casual Observer mentioned, the real estate boom influenced a lot of books - investing is an awesome idea, but really thoroughly check the market in your area, and start small so you don't risk everything in the first shot!! Good luck, whatever your decision is!
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
And this is why I've just going to be a fucking novelist.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
I have less then a year of college.
I am the top banker in three states for the past two quarters. Top banker in my division for the past year.
I worked my way up the hard way because well I had little choice.
It can be done.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lillionaire
This book is really convincing me that school is an overpriced waste of my money that is only bound to make a good worker in the "rat race", while I should be using my brains and applying it to something bigger and better, like forming my own corporation.
Regardless of whether his advice is good or not, I'm not certain whether his stories are fiction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Da..._Dad#Criticism
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Robert Kiyosaki is a fraud and made the vast majority of his money from selling books and seminars, not from following his advice.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
really? i should have done some research.. but i guess i dont have time to research everything all the time. Thanks for the heads up though.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
I was just talking about Melonie's theory of income maximization stripping in lieu of a college degree with 2 other retired stripper friends yesterday.
And really, I don't know a single stripper that doesn't burn out from the job and have to take significant time off. Its such a unique environment in that sense. I've had the burnout in the financial industry as well, but I was working 80 hours a week and partying hard every night while "networking".
The idea of spending 18-22 working your ass of stripping is great conceptually. But its simply not realistic for all but the most strong and driven women. And those women can succeed at ANYTHING they put their mind to. Why waste that on stripping when they can create a real resume and build their future.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
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Why waste that on stripping when they can create a real resume and build their future.
... a few reasons this doesn't work anymore ...
- 'serious professional dancers' can earn $100k plus a year starting at age 18. On the other hand, obtaining a college degree ( while not earning $100k plus per year for 4 years plus racking up student loan debt ), and then working their way up through entry level straight jobs ( paying FAR less than $100k per year ) to mid level straight jobs that actually pay decently ( but still less than $100k per year ) may take a total of 10+ years. Thus 14 years later, girls that pursued a college degree and built a resume, not counting their tuition costs, are 'only' about ( 4 * $100k college years ) + ( 5 * [100k-$40k] entry level years ) + ( 5 * $100k-$75k] mid level years = $825k BEHIND their 'serious professional dancer' counterparts in cumulative earnings by the time they reach age 33. That's one hell of a big deficit to dig out from under !
- with 'global wage arbitrage' getting worse instead of better, there are extremely few professions / careers that appear to be in demand today ( and currently paying lucrative salaries ) that will still be in demand 14 years from now ( and still paying lucrative salaries ). Undoubtedly some portion of the 770,000 Americans who actually filed new unemployment insurance claims this week hold degrees that were in high demand 14 years ago, and formerly held lucrative jobs that have now been permanently 'shipped' to Asia. Also, with extremely few exceptions, the types of new US jobs now being added to supposedly replace the lucrative career oriented jobs now being permanently 'shipped' to Asia are mostly low paying 'service' jobs with questionable long term future job / wage security.
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I don't know a single stripper that doesn't burn out from the job and have to take significant time off.
Arguably, this is manageable providing that the 'serious professional dancer' is willing to change clubs / locations in order to minimize stress levels. In my own experience, dancer burnout often results from a dancer being 'trapped' at a particular club in a particular city ... which in turn results in higher stress levels if that particular club's customer contact expectations and/or club management / fellow dancer working conditions and/or anemic dancer earnings potential is a constant 'irritant'.
I would also add that, using a yardstick of $100k per year in earnings for a 'serious professional dancer', this still allows for significant time off. Even at a $500 a night earnings potential, that still only amounts to 200 working nights per year. This allows for schedules like 3 weeks of full time dancing followed by a full week off, which is what I always did to 'decompress', rest, and deal with 'real life' issues.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
I understand the numbers behind it all. And I agree with you that it makes sense and I wish I had done it. But I also know that every 18-20 year old stripper I worked with just couldn't handle it and fucked off all her money, partied too much, didn't work enough.
Not assuming that all young strippers are like that. There are many mature ones here. But I've never seen one in the clubs.....
...and traveling to strip eats away at the bottom line. But I agree, its one of the best ways to prevent burnout, that's the method I employed. But too much travel prevents regulars too, and from what they say, cultivating regulars now is more important than ever as there is a dwindling base of customers out there.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
Well that's a question that only you can answer. However, one thing that I did glean from years of dancing is that girls who are college students first and dancers second typically lack earnings motivation. As long as they are able to earn enough to meet their near term needs ( next semester's tuition, next month's rent etc. ), they elect to conserve as much 'energy' as possible while working in the club, and elect to work as few days per week as they can get away with.
This all depends on the intent of the dancer. If the dancer is only working at the club with the intent of paying her way through school, then she may cut back on her work at the club to concentrate on her studies. If the dancer's intent is to maximize her income, there is no reason why she can't do very well as a dancer, and go to school at the same time. I have a friend who is going to school and dancing, and she is one of the top earners at the club where she works.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
^^^ another issue where we are in complete agreement.
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Not assuming that all young strippers are like that. There are many mature ones here. But I've never seen one in the clubs.....
Not meaning to belabor the point, but by definition you're not likely to see 'serious professional dancers' in certain clubs ... clubs where the earnings potential is anemic and/or the customer or club management pain in the ass factor is high.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
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Originally Posted by
lesbianbob
Robert Kiyosaki is a fraud and made the vast majority of his money from selling books and seminars, not from following his advice.
why do you say so?
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
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Originally Posted by
Casual Observer
An utterly worthless book, and horribly written to boot.
All you need to take away from that book is the very basic concept of assets and liabilities; assets generate income, liabilities are costs. If you buy things that don't generate income, they're a liability. If you buy things that appreciate in value or generate income, they're assets.
Everything else in that book is utter tripe and real estate boom drivel.
why do you think it is worthless? some guy sitting next to me on the plane told me he made a fortune in a few years, and that "Rich Dad Poor Dad" is one of the best books he's ever written.
Just curious about your opinion.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
I would be interested to hear Britney Ireland's or Kylea Killeens opinion on this thread topic...
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Kiyosaki has been outed as a fraud, do some google searches. He is very charismatic and writes good books. Successful people might read his stuff, but I'll be they don't ONLY read Kiyosaki, they do a lot of other research, studying, networking, and work their tails off....although a few do luck out.
Also, re: stripping. The most successful person in my sales team, out of 50 people, is a 23 year old girl without a college degree. She works hard, but we generally don't work more than 45 hours a week, MAYBE 50. She networked and made a friend who got her the job, then opened herself up to learning, opportunities, and nurtured relationships. She has the looks and personality to be a very successful stripper, but is religious and would never. There are plenty of non stripping opps that can make a young woman successful without a college degree. She is making a healthy 6 figures without having to deal with a lot of the stress that stripping imposes on people's feelings of self-worth. Sure its sales, and there are commonalities...burn out does occur in most sales. And its all uphill for her from this point. She can go into upper management with the company, or she can get her degree part time in a few years if she needs something to advance.
After about 5 years in sales, if someone does well and has a good track record, they can get into ANYTHING. This can't happen with stripping though, even though it is sales. That's 5 years of blank resume space. Despite Melonie's thoughts that the world is ending, it isn't. The US is in decline, but there are still going to be jobs for successful people. Or, go to Canada or Europe. Lolz.
Just sayin...opportunities are there, they don't have to involve nudity and grinding the dick's of creepy old men. Stripping is NOT the only way, nor is Kiyosaki. Evaluate all your options, learn as much as you can, nurture relationships with people.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
Well it just so happens that my son is also studying towards a Fine Arts degree. So far he has received essentially zero real world revenues from his artwork, and is looking forward to near zero lucrative job offers when he graduates - most likely due to reduced state and local spending on museums and other arts related grants.
Agreed that if you are presently working under tuition that you have already paid for, it probably makes the most sense to finish out the semester or whatever.
Well that's a question that only you can answer. However, one thing that I did glean from years of dancing is that girls who are college students first and dancers second typically lack earnings motivation. As long as they are able to earn enough to meet their near term needs ( next semester's tuition, next month's rent etc. ), they elect to conserve as much 'energy' as possible while working in the club, and elect to work as few days per week as they can get away with.
On the other hand 'serious professional dancers' look upon dancing as their first priority, thus generally maintain a higher 'energy' level while working, definitely work more days per week, etc. As a result they earn both more money per week, and also more money per hour worked.
As a theoretical exercise, working 5 days per week and cranking up your earnings potential by perhaps 20% to $360 would result in a gross income of around $90k a year ... with probable net income around $60k a year. If you were able to live on say $30k a year, and invest the other $30k, next year your investments could be providing say 7% * $30k = $2,100 of tax free income from state municipal bonds. Doing the same thing the following year would result in $4,200+ of tax free income from state muni bonds. Thus the 'opportunity cost' of pursuing a 4 year college degree, earning $30k per year working less hours / days to meet minimum living costs, and investing nothing, could actually amount to 'losing' $8,400+ of tax free annual income for the rest of your life ( totalling up to perhaps $336k over 40 years ), plus 'losing' the $120k worth of tax free bonds as well ! This is NOT a trivial amount by any means !
Granted that studying to be a doctor, an attorney, a financier etc. would eventually result in an annual earnings potential increase that would quickly overshadow the $456,000 in 'lost opportunity' cost that was incurred to obtain a 4 year degree versus dancing full time for those 4 years. However, for degrees leading to less lucrative professions, that 'lost opportunity' cost may never be recovered !!!
do you sign onto Stripperweb with a calulator on hand? Or are you so good at numbers that by now you dont need to use calculators anymore?
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
well, I'm good enough with 'strategic' numbers to nail an obvious trend. For specifics I still reach for the calculator !
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Setting aside the fact that statistically speaking college graduates make much more than non-college graduates over their lifetime...life is, to me and maybe only to me, marked by your accomplishments. Some people want fortune...some want fame...but when it's all said it done, what matters most, "What did you accomplish?"
Every person needs to assess their own circumstances and I would never dream of telling someone "you have to get a college degree" or "you will never be a true success without a college diploma" or anything like that, but being a college graduate is an accomplishment I wouldn't trade for fortune nor fame. You made it...You did it...and nobody can ever take that away from you.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
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Setting aside the fact that statistically speaking college graduates make much more than non-college graduates over their lifetime
I don't mean to be argumentative, but this is a KEY consideration. Yes historically speaking, if you stack up the total costs of obtaining a college degree ( i.e. tuition cost, financing costs, lost opportunity costs of not collecting a paycheck / collecting a smaller paycheck while attending college, etc. ) versus the total additional earnings potential after graduation ( higher pay rate, greater job security etc. ), it has traditionally favored the latter. However, historically speaking, housing values have traditionally always gone up as well !
The point of course is that over the past few years MAJOR changes have taken place in the US economy that now challenge these traditional rules of thumb. And just like investing a lot of money in housing is no longer an automatic 'winning' investment, investing a lot of time and money into a college degree is no longer an automatic 'winning' investment either. Like real estate 'location, location, location', these days the specific nature of the college degree makes a huge difference in the future likelihood of being hired / starting pay rate / future career outlook ( both financially and in terms of job security ).
So yes while there is always value in pursuing and completing a goal, in the case of many college degrees that value may not be of an economic nature any longer !!!