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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
I don't mean to be argumentative, but this is a KEY consideration...
Actually, I love a good argument...but I don't think that's argumentative. Actually, I agree. In fact, I think for many people, the cost/benefit ratio of a college degree is THE consideration.
I went to college right after high school, and at the time the "potential future earnings" aspect of going to college was really a non-factor. Now that I have the perspective that only time and experience can provide, that feeling has only been reinforced. It really was just something I wanted to accomplish and for me that's really the most important aspect of it...an accomplishment.
However, I can completely understand why many people choose not to go to college, particularly if they know (or even suspect) the time, money, and effort invested will not significantly alter a bright, opportunity-filled future they might have even without ever going to a college or university.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
I have to agree with Mel on this one, insofar as people with degrees and jobs already are a different kettle of fish to people considering whether to start a degree NOW. You can't go "worked for me, so it'll work for you". Being a doctor used to be a good meal ticket, not so much nowadays. Who knows in 10 years.
Of course, I don't know enough about the US economy to have an informed opinion on what's best for young uns over there, but I thought I'd point out the "historical success cannot predict the future" issue ;)
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
^^^ in fact, that's one major factor that makes the situation for today's new graduates even more dicey. For better or worse, where many degrees are concerned, there are a whole bunch of unemployed / underemployed Americans who also hold the same degree PLUS have some amount of real world experience under their belt ! This depresses entry level wage rates right along with 'mid level' wage rates for jobs requiring that degree. This also greatly alters the 'cost / benefit' equation for the new graduate ... who may not achieve any 'payback on investment' whatsoever if the achievable pay rate from an entry level job minus the cost of student loan payments is actually less than the achievable pay rate from a different job that does not require the degree !
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
OTOH, regardless of your terrible economy, there's stuff you learn at a good university that you won't learn anywhere else.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
^^^ are you referring to truly 'important' stuff, like the Skull & Bones secret handshake ?
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
I've found that my degrees have given me more than just a career (though they have given me that). My education has informed my perspectives on everything. It's expanded me in ways that I might not have otherwise achieved. My personal view is therefore that tertiary education is important for non-economic reasons as well as career prospects. It isn't something everyone's interested in, nor is it something that everyone will profit from, but that doesn't mean that it's generally a waste of time.
ETA - I finished my second degree in 2008, so I'm not part of that previous generation of which person appeared to speak.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
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My personal view is therefore that tertiary education is important for non-economic reasons
It isn't something everyone's interested in, nor is it something that everyone will profit from, but that doesn't mean that it's generally a waste of time
Well, here we go with the concept of 'lost opportunity cost'. Indeed obtaining a college degree is never a total waste of time. However, these days the argument can certainly be made that, in many circumstances, it is a waste of money.
Every life experience provides additional 'education' ... at least for those who keep and open mind and make an effort to learn. I'll be frank with you and state that the best source of 'education' I was ever exposed to was Manhattan VIP rooms ... where gentlemen customers from the corporate / banking / entertainment / gov't etc. who actually played roles in 'how the world really works' would discuss things amongst themselves while thinking that the big boobed blonde 'bimbo' on their lap was incapable of understanding a single word of their conversations !!! And obviously I was getting paid rather well at the same time I was receiving this 'free' education !
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
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Originally Posted by
Flickdreams
I would be interested to hear Britney Ireland's or Kylea Killeens opinion on this thread topic...
It looks like I missed this thread (or possibly actively chose not to respond) during the past 5 months or so that I wasn't actively posting on SW. I'll give my opinions on this now.
Melonie & I tend to be very close minded on the thoughts of college. For a career stripper going to college actually can eat away at profit potentials, as she already went into. I honestly don't think I will ever tell anyone (including non-career strippers) ever to go to college before they can qualify to fill out FAFSA as an independent (generally age 24 unless you fall under special circumstances).
You can read more about this here:
http://forum.stripperweb.com/showthr...9&#post2020159
Keep in mind that the government & schools also pressure students to go to college right away because colleges/loans are businesses. Simply put, they want the cash. The government wants you to take out all the higher interest loans that are available to the 18-23 year olds. By the time you turn 24 basically they are offering you a discounted price so that they don't fully lose making the money off of you by giving you a loan. The colleges can easily be seen the same way. They will make you jump through hoops to get what you need to graduate, & they don't care how many classes you pay for that don't count towards whatever major you decide on... all those wasted classes are still making them money!
My opinion is that if you are motivated you will be successful at whatever you do. Unless you plan to major in a field where college is actually required (medical, law, etc.) then college doesn't really need to be part of the equation... particularly if it's just going to get you into un-necessary or un-reasonable debt. Besides, most of the really amazing professionals in their industry are not teaching in a college. I actually think that colleges in the US as a whole are really beginning to fail because the professors no longer seem to care. Why would they when the school only cares about the financial bottom line most of the time? That brings the point up that with all the other professional leaders, many people would be better off seeking out an apprenticeship from one of these leaders (even if one needs to pay) or to attend professional workshops being put on by these professionals. Either way the fact is that this format would yield a better ROI (return on investment) than the traditional college format within the US.
* As a side note one of my long-term ex's (the over-educated one) was going to the University of Leicester while we were together for an additional masters (he already had multiple ::) ) & a PhD. I will say I was rather impressed by the school compared to so many others that I've seen.
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
Arguably, this is manageable providing that the 'serious professional dancer' is willing to change clubs / locations in order to minimize stress levels. In my own experience, dancer burnout often results from a dancer being 'trapped' at a particular club in a particular city ... which in turn results in higher stress levels if that particular club's customer contact expectations and/or club management / fellow dancer working conditions and/or anemic dancer earnings potential is a constant 'irritant'.
I would also add that, using a yardstick of $100k per year in earnings for a 'serious professional dancer', this still allows for significant time off. Even at a $500 a night earnings potential, that still only amounts to 200 working nights per year. This allows for schedules like 3 weeks of full time dancing followed by a full week off, which is what I always did to 'decompress', rest, and deal with 'real life' issues.
Melonie is spot on about this. Part of the reason I travel so much is to avoid all of the BS that is starting to occur. I regularly go back to places where management is better, drama is lower, & the contact levels are easier to deal with... even if that means less money. I'd still rather be one of the top earners in a low stress environment than to have to deal with a lot of stress. AthenaTheFabulous has mentioned this on SW too, but many of these low stress places are actually clubs which are independently owned. Many of the club chains have gotten out of hand, & I strongly suspect that what happened in Seattle with the courts shutting down multiple clubs after it was proved that the high house fees & fines lead to prostitution, is probably something that will become a much wider phenomenon. The managers & owners of the smaller clubs know the entertainers better, & they see the value in being a reasonable/low-stress environment.
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Originally Posted by
KS_Stevia
I understand the numbers behind it all. And I agree with you that it makes sense and I wish I had done it. But I also know that every 18-20 year old stripper I worked with just couldn't handle it and fucked off all her money, partied too much, didn't work enough.
This is why EDC (SW's predecessor) was such a huge impact on my life. Having the right mentors can really make or break a person. More people need to learn to reach out for good mentors, & those who had them I believe have a responsibility to return the favour to the younger generation. I'm going to censor my thoughts here, but I have expressed some issues to Pryce regarding this.
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Originally Posted by
KS_Stevia
Not assuming that all young strippers are like that. There are many mature ones here. But I've never seen one in the clubs.....
I find it hard to believe that you never met a mature & responsible stripper. Chances are more likely that you didn't know that is what she was.
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Originally Posted by
KS_Stevia
...and traveling to strip eats away at the bottom line. But I agree, its one of the best ways to prevent burnout, that's the method I employed.
Keep in mind that business travel expenses are deductible on taxes. With that said though, most of my good friends know that I have been contemplating downsizing what I own, & putting the majority in storage to go on the road. Downsizing on un-needed junk would obviously be necessary to avoid having to get a bigger storage unit & waste money. An entertainer who does go on the road full time though does have more earning potential.
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Originally Posted by
KS_Stevia
Too much travel prevents regulars too, and from what they say, cultivating regulars now is more important than ever as there is a dwindling base of customers out there.
It's not impossible to cultivate regulars on the road... on the contrary it can actually be helpful. Customers tend to be more willing to put down money on an entertainer who they have either never met before, or whom they have not seen in a long time. The issue really is that the entertainer needs to be responsible for finding a way to keep these people as her regulars. That could involve simply keeping a database & storing info on everyone she dances for that spends a certain amount, or in areas where it is legal simply exchanging contact information & contacting the customer when she returns. Either way though, I think it's not so hard if you have a way to either remember the customers or to notify customers of when you will be returning. This is also where having a website & using social networking can come in handy.
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
by definition you're not likely to see 'serious professional dancers' in certain clubs ... clubs where the earnings potential is anemic and/or the customer or club management pain in the ass factor is high.
Agree 100%
Another issue, while I used to be all about buying real estate I am not so keen on that these days. There are too many things which are beginning to play into it & unless you buy it young (which is what I did) or plan to live in the place permanently, then it may not play out in your favour. For a young college student buying real estate when the prices are low means the opportunity to take a huge write-off on taxes, & also sell higher once you graduate. The problem for a career stripper having a home is that sooner or later when working on the road yields higher earnings the home becomes more of an un-necessary expense, a liability, & generally a trap. Renting out a home can be a pain, & unless you have multiple rental properties it's probably not worth the cost to use a rental management company. If you simply begin collecting rental properties but not using one as a primary residence then you many not be able to receive all the real tax benefits of owning a home either. So again, once the career stripper hits the point where traveling makes sense, the home for a tax write-off generally won't make as much sense.
What Melonie did with stripping, saving money, then moving outside the US to an area that is cheaper to live as an expatriate effectively makes sense. She optimized on earning money, then retired in a place that is much cheaper to live. This is basically the new version of working somewhere with high earning potential such as California or New York, & then retiring somewhere less expensive like Florida. The process of either becoming a US expatriate to significantly lower your taxes, or giving up US citizenship to avoid US taxes all together is actually a huge trend. For me personally it is too soon to say what my citizenship status will be 20 - 40 years down the road, however my retirement business plan effectively means that I wouldn't be staying anywhere for more than a few days, so I suspect that legal issues & taxes surrounding this plan will be my primary concerns.
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
Well it just so happens that my son is also studying towards a Fine Arts degree. So far he has received essentially zero real world revenues from his artwork, and is looking forward to near zero lucrative job offers when he graduates - most likely due to reduced state and local spending on museums and other arts related grants.
This is spot on as well. There are certain degrees that as the saying goes:
"You can either teach with it, or wipe your _ _ _ with it."
Probably about 98% of degrees fall into under that quote.
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
Agreed that if you are presently working under tuition that you have already paid for, it probably makes the most sense to finish out the semester or whatever.
I agree with this as well. If it's already paid for you may as well finish it out so if nothing else you keep up your G.P.A., & can list the courses on your resume if the need ever came.
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Originally Posted by
Lillionaire
This book is really convincing me that school is an overpriced waste of my money that is only bound to make a good worker in the "rat race", while I should be using my brains and applying it to something bigger and better, like forming my own corporation.
While I don't know you personally, for myself I could say that was true.
One other thing to note about art schools is that many have this quaint little set-back in their contracts that keeps students from dropping out. Basically many of them say that if for any reason you drop out, they won't let you return ever. This helps them to ensure that students don't drop out, while also giving the students who do so a kick while they are already down... because most of the art schools won't take the majority of credits from one another. Isn't that nice of them? ::) Actually, I suspect many private college & universities do this, but it's just something to be aware of... particularly if the school offers a master's program that you may want to pursue someday. If that is the case, & you are already taking courses, it's probably best to just finish the degree... then give yourself a long break before actually starting the master's program, so that you are really 100% sure that you want to do it.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
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Keep in mind that the government & schools also pressure students to go to college right away because colleges/loans are businesses. Simply put, they want the cash. The government wants you to take out all the higher interest loans that are available to the 18-23 year olds.
To be totally correct, these days student loans and more than half of all colleges are GOV"T RUN BUSINESSES. And as such, not only do gov't entities 'profit' when a person takes out a gov't backed student loan or attend a gov't operated college, but the gov't benefits in other less tangible ways. For instance, what happens when a high school grad does NOT attend college ? They add to the unemployment statistics !
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
^^^ Yes, that was part of my point as well... I should have clarified. I think I've gone more than 24hrs without sleep... so I was mental slack on my end.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
All the Kyosaki books have value...however one must realize the limitations of "book knowledge" and that R.K. didn't get his fortune from reading books but from the lessons learned.
One of the biggest lessons in his books / teachings is "hang out with who you want to be" - he studied the rich dad and emulated him...and became that. Some do that with college, some with other methods. Some with real estate, some with MLM.
No one ever did it by hanging around the drunk-ass cheapskates and crackheads in this industry. Many have by following Melonie's path/advice, or treating this business like a business (a-la the brand better known as jenna Jameson).
remember. KISS is a brand, not a band! That's been their motto for 30 years
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Thanks for resurrecting this 2 year old ... but still relevant ... thread.
Indeed the 'hang out with who you want to be' advice remains correct in theory. However, in practice it is even more difficult to achieve the intended results today as the 'rich get richer' while the non-rich remain stagnant or fall farther behind. In my own personal case, there was no way that I was going to be able to increase my exposure to the 'rich' while still living in New York. However, relocating to a resort area way south of the border instantly increased my exposure to the international 'rich' at an extremely low 'price'.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
To me the Rich Dad Poor Dad series is of tremendous value. While some of the specifics may have changed with the changes the real estate markets have gone through, what hasn't changed is the consistent manner in which the books get people raised in middle and lower class families to adjust how they look at assets, liabilities, investments and work.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
[QUOTE=jimboe7373;2539334]To me the Rich Dad Poor Dad series is of tremendous value. While some of the specifics may have changed with the changes the real estate markets have gone through, what hasn't changed is the consistent manner in which the books get people raised in middle and lower class families to adjust how they look at assets, liabilities, investments and work.[/QUOTE]
That's my perspective on RDPD. It is one opportunity for the working class to evolve their perspective/attitude towards finance.
I'm planning on attending a Govt recognised private institute to study a degree in Holistic Counselling- it's a life choice which fascinates me. I say "To thine own self be true", follow your passion.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
Indeed the 'hang out with who you want to be' advice remains correct in theory.
Best advice ever. Not even speaking in terms of money or finance. But life path and career path in general. That's how you get *in*.
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Re: Did you read "Rich Dad Poor Dad"? it's making me want to pause college, again.
Art is one of those fields where a college degree is almost completely useless, if you want to make a living doing art. If you want to teach at a school that offers one of these degrees then yeah.
Pretty much anyone that actually makes a living and is in demand in the art world went to a more traditional Atelier style school and spent a ton of time in life drawing classes.
There are exceptions, it is the kind of thing where what the students of a particular teacher are turning out is so much more valuable than any degree.