-
Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Ok, so we've been discussing in basic threads, ideas for camsites and what camsites should be, and pay, and many other things. I realize that camgirls are a very interesting breed on a level that I never actually realized before, especially since I have been "interviewing" at several camsites and even talking to some dancer friends and so on. I've gotten a lot of input.
Let me say, I'm no-where near done, and everything I write in this thread is still written on air and not stone. But it is a composite of ideas. What I'm working for here is a composite of the girl's desire mixed with the realities of camming as I (and our investors) see them.
So, first thing. I am very much a believer in darwinism at a certain level, and I think it echos throughout everything we do. What I mean by this is that Survival of The Fittest is REAL. That anyone who ignores it, does so at their own peril. That this business is FILLED with people who don't belong in this business and that if you ARE one of the true Adult Entertainers that DO belong, these hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of women who just get by and do their time and feel like the world owes them and so they don't have to actually Work for the money...These women are a bit like leeches bleeding off the good quality entertainment and the actual goodness of what makes this a high paying job. They suck away 60%-70% of the money in dribs and drabs from the customers who would otherwise be yours because they got fired from their job being a checker at the grocery store and thought they'd "try webcam".
For some this idea may seem at odds for someone who so prides herself in championing women. But it isn't. Because it is about the reality of the cam business, and not about getting mean or personal. It is about sites crowded with girls because this is viewed as an easy way to "Make $2000 a week from home with almost no work" thanks to all the hype. and because there is a finite number of customers who spend a finite amount of dollars, and 700-1000+ women on a camsite is RIDICULOUS and bleeds away the customer until almost no-one makes truly great money anymore.
It's funny how I am considered the anti-streamate guru by some, when in actual fact, I think streamate serves a purpose and I don't really want to see it gone. I want to see it become the place camgirls who can't hack it on the real sites go. the traffic will slowly get worse there, in both quality and quantity, and if a few sites of quality open up (including "mine"), I see streamate becoming like the 35% ghetto where the girls go who are just in it for the easy quick money, and those girls will never ever really make the really big bux, but they can do ok and have stream and camz and such. Even with my negative view on many of the women who cam, I would do my very best to make stream pay more, because I am a compassionate person and think that everyone deserves a shot at some bux. I see stream becoming the stripper pit that exists in most towns for the drugged out girls and the ones who just can't hack it at the good clubs.
I think that "paid chat only" will also fade from view, although you still have a few years on that one, but the more free preview chat open sites like MFC are around, the more it will kill off the "I only get to see a still picture of my choice before I start spending money? Fuck that!" In part, I am surprised inst-pay exists at the levels it even does today, and Bless those on AW who use it. But when it becomes the norm for free preview chat to be easy and free even for guests like MFC, those who won't show themselves will become less and less and less popular. I know for a fact it is already happening to some degree, which is why MFC removed it. Here's to hoping I'm wrong about this one, and I plan to at least try to offer this on the sites I work on in the future.
I also believe that in 2-3 years, these conversations about nudity in public chat will be a thing of the past, but not in the way MANY of you hope. Many of you will be gone from the industry if you believe that "I'll never show anything in free chat, they take me private or they get nothing" because the only sites paying decently will have nudity at minimum in free chat. MFC has let the genie out of the bottle, and my predictions are following a pattern that is exactly as I knew it would go. Because this business is about numbers, and once the numbers are given naked free chat, they don't want prude free chat anymore. So it will be interesting to watch the strong wills either evolve or move on to other things.
Hopefully I'm wrong. But in general, I think examining the fact tha you are adult entertainers and what that MEANS is the best thing many women can do. I feel that often, a rejection of reality is preferable to some women rather than accepting that the industry is changing.
In the old days, burlesque and even gogo bars, dancers got paid well, but there was bvery little "tipping" because everyone in the audience was a paying customer. and so it was ;ole one large GROUP show. But as dancing evolved it became more and more as it is today, with tipping and privates and table dances and so on, and dancers have had to accept that the non-tipping freeloaders and "beggers" in the audience will get to see them naked, because that gets the ones who pay excited and they tip and do privates more and so on when they are excited.
I believe webcamming is paralleling that to some degree. when there are thousands of girls all out there giving "free previews", how much money do you think you'll make showing nothing?
But this isn't about "to show or not to show" as much as it is about embracing being an adult entertainer, and once you can embrace the adult part (which is what all that up there is about) you then need to embrace the entertainer part. Because 80% of all webcam girls are fucking BORING. Go on and go look and gon through every girl on stream and mark down a check for every one who really entertains you and makes you want to watch, and a check for every one who bored the tits off you...then go to MFC and start at the BOTTOM and do the same thing...Try AW...and I bet you'll be pretty close to my numbers, 8 out of 10 are eithe run-of-the-mill or outright boring.
So we have an industry heavily overcrowded with women, many of which are boring poor entertainers, and we also have sites being forced to evolve into something more like strip clubs or MFC specifically, since that site, like it or not, took the camworld by storm. So where does that leave YOU and your personal philosophy?
If you disagree with my assessment, I'd really love to hear your reasoning, and see where all of you think the camworld is headed.
B
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Well I recently gave MFC a try.
I found though, that while I made steady tips on there, I was constantly having to set myself as AWAY , because I was splitcamming to AW where I do NOT offer any form of free interaction and I was so so so busy on AW that it was pointless being logged on MFC.
If a guy wants you, and cant get you for freebie, he WILL pay.
But then, I am awesome and well worth paying for. I think spending more time on MFC will make the guys realize that as long as the tips come in, I stay in the room, but when the tips stop, I leave to earn elsewhere.
As for boring girls, I agree 100%. I make a point to open customer accounts on all sites I work on so I see how things work from my customers side, and seriously, 90% of these women couldnt get me to tip or to take them private if THEY paid ME.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Overall, Adultwork is a wonderful place because it is a "regional" camsite. I mean as Alexa attests to, worldwide the traffic is pretty dismal, but with UK surfers, it is in the top 200 daily of all websites in Britain.
Honestly, I'd love to know about anywhere else like it, where a woman can do her camming with NO freechat and have back to back to back privates and groups. They have a wonderful recipe that works.
Also, generally I may have been too harsh on the Pay-Only-Camming (POC?) in the sense that I think that it is a dying animal, (which AW aside, I still do think) but that it HAS a place. I don't think Indy camming will die out anytime soon and that is obviously a form of POC, and for sure women will always have their regulars, who don't NEED to check em out first, taking them private as well as the throwbacks to the old way of doing stuff.
See, one advantage of camming is that we're working with the most malleable of users. That is, those who are most likely to be our greatest customers are usually those born at least one generation before the Internet and Camming were common. The BAD part of that is that dragging them along into anything new is like pulling teeth (thus the Stream guys who you can't get to go Indy with you no matter how you try). I visualize them sitting befuddled and saying "Skype? What the hell is that? I think I caught that from a hooker last year! I had the Skype before and I don't want it again, no sir!" ... However, if they can be shown something new and cool, they also become seriously dedicated users, and trumpet about it to their friends as well, because to them the internet is a marvelous territory filled with wonders, where the much younger generations are much more jaded and think of internet as a thing to be taken for granted, that has been around for their whole life.
One answer to why Stream does so well, is that MANY of the users don't know My Free Cams exists, or AdultWork. We think of these daily, but most people have no clue those sites are out there. Where EVERYONE has been spammed for stream and Live Jasmin..They pop up on damn hardware sites and stuff. Luckily for stream, MFC keeps their promo on the downlow, and relies on WOM and some banners and such, so in a huge portion of the internet, there is a vast ignorance about MFC. ASK the average stream customer, "Hey, there is a place where you can go watch a free, live show of a girl fucking a mutant cucumber while a home-made fuck machine plows her throat and she swings on a trapeze, and she CHATS too! Wanna Go?!" There are very few men who say no to that. I mean THAT should be the MFC advertising. Because once they are there, as we ALL can attest, wandering room to room is fascinating on MFC and there is someone there for EVERY taste...AND every level of communication and explicitness, from girls who never show in public, to girls who fuck themselves with every object in the house close-up and don't even require tips to do it.
So we have a very odd cam world at the moment, and there is room right now for things to be altered and for women to make their mark and get to "making bank" levels. But for my money, if you get online and just do you little shtick and make yer $200 and get off, you're SO selling yourself short, because you have ONE life, and if your going to eat a hamburger, don't just eat it...Eat the HELL out of it! If you were going to be an actress in Hollywood, would you go send 50 headshots out, knock on two or three doors, and give so-so auditions? Or would you do it right and perform like there was no tomorrow? Because as a beautiful woman, THIS is your Hollywood in one sense. Play big or go home.
Candie and Amber and Aspen and those girls at the top of the MFC hit list are industrious and they did a lot to get where they are. They worked their asses off, and they made it to a place where $10k is a nice week's work, and I applaud them, because they saw the golden apple on the tree of life and they fucking climbed up and got it.
So, if my posts inspire you...great. If my words piss you off...great. But if they don't get you to re-assess the IMPRINT you leave on your chosen profession (and even if you do it part time to put yourself through school, don't cop out and say this is only for now and all that...for NOW it is what you do for money...there is no excuse for copping out) and up your game EVERY day, work you persona and really play BIG..if my words don't do THAT, then they failed...
B
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
Candie and Amber and Aspen and those girls at the top of the MFC hit list are industrious and they did a lot to get where they are. They worked their asses off, and they made it to a place where $10k is a nice week's work, and I applaud them, because they saw the golden apple on the tree of life and they fucking climbed up and got it.
Yeah, they're awesome!
Aspen spinning on her pole the other day was sexy. ;D She told a guy in public chat that she hasn't had any formal training. I want to get a pole in the near future and take more of those classes at Tease Fitness. It's fun!
I can't say this enough, but Aspen is such a sweetheart. I think her room topic was "300 tokens until topless" or something like that, and some jerk told her she's not worth that many tokens for topless. She just kept smiling and said something along the lines of "Well if I'm not worth it, why are you here then?" and I think she banned him, because that prick didn't say anything else after that. ;D
LOVE her!
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
So we have a very odd cam world at the moment, and there is room right now for things to be altered and for women to make their mark and get to "making bank" levels. But for my money, if you get online and just do you little shtick and make yer $200 and get off, you're SO selling yourself short, because you have ONE life, and if your going to eat a hamburger, don't just eat it...Eat the HELL out of it! If you were going to be an actress in Hollywood, would you go send 50 headshots out, knock on two or three doors, and give so-so auditions? Or would you do it right and perform like there was no tomorrow? Because as a beautiful woman, THIS is your Hollywood in one sense. Play big or go home.
Personally I cam so I can afford to be a full-time student, so I do like to just make a few hundred a week and log off, because that's all I need to live a very comfortable lifestyle and not have to have another job. I love having the time and flexibility to truly focus on my studies.
However this does inspire me to continue to make more content, because that seems to be the best way to make money without having to put in as many hours.
I've also been trying to make MFC work for me so I can start getting those offline tips.
So that's about as big as I want to play right now, but I appreciate this post because it definitely made me think about the ways in which I can step up my game :)
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
So we have an industry heavily overcrowded with women, many of which are boring poor entertainers, and we also have sites being forced to evolve into something more like strip clubs or MFC specifically, since that site, like it or not, took the camworld by storm. So where does that leave YOU and your personal philosophy?
If you disagree with my assessment, I'd really love to hear your reasoning, and see where all of you think the camworld is headed.
B
I do have to disagree just a bit with a few things here. I don't think that all sites are going to end up like myfreecams. There will always be some men who do not want to participate in a rowdy group environment and want something more private, and I've found that some of the huge, huge spenders are like this.
I also don't think there is going to be one huge cam site (myfreecams or any other one) that takes all of the market or makes all other cam sites go to free chat. I believe there will also always be men who go more for the fetish type things (huge huge money there) and you can actually bank on just a few customers who will be overjoyed they have found someone to fulfill their particular fetish.
Once you tap into a fetish, these customers can be incredibly loyal. Niteflirt used to be especially good for that (and seems to be picking up again somewhat for that also). I'm puzzled why you overlook these niche type markets. It's true not every cam host can cater to those, but I'd be stupid not to scoop up what money I can from places like clips4sale and the fetish market (and I've been way too lazy about it lately, getting back into the groove this year again).
Nearly every host has something unique they can exploit and I think it's a mistake to think that everyone *has* to do nude shows in public or that every host will be forced to conform to any particular style of chat or show. The key is offering something unique.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
I completely agree with all the points Laurie said, and I disagree that it is all heading towards a free chat only cam world.
Free chat and free preview btw are two different things. You said the days of a guy looking at pics and having to decide from that, will be over. Well, for the sake of argument, even if that is true, I'm not against him having a free preview, we're talking a peek here or 30secs. But that is very different to sitting in free chat all day. I would be more open to free chat if I felt the rules and playing field are fair, which currently they are not. And given the choice, to cam girls who are currently doing very well in back to back prvs on the non free chat sites of the world AW, NF etc, free chat, especially on MFC, is an incredibly high effort, likely low pay out gamble to take. Some may hit it big, but many will not, and just because they cannot work a room on MFC does not necessarily make them bad camgirls. In short, I still believe there will still remain more diversity in the cam world.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
laurielegs
I do have to disagree just a bit with a few things here. I don't think that all sites are going to end up like myfreecams. There will always be some men who do not want to participate in a rowdy group environment and want something more private, and I've found that some of the huge, huge spenders are like this.
First off, thank you SO much for writing this. I completely agree with everything you said.
So, let me clarify STRONGLY what I wrote ^^^up there^^^. What I am talking about is mainstream camming as it applies to the thousands of girls who do not do fetish, or know indy sites exist, or any of the more "boutique" camming experiences. I was trying to state more a general trend for the market as opposed to hard and fast. As I said "written on air, not stone.."
I think there a wide variety of whales out there who really spend big, but overall they often can be classified as two types (and some are actually both)...the guy who truly has an "all about you" mentality and that guys is, as you state more often about cocooning with you in private and lavishing you. But the second type is all about showing off his lavishing, because much of his "getting off" is on the other guys seeing how much he can drop on you and showing off how much you appreciate HIM. So far these guys are mostly within the MFC model, since the tipping and lavishing in public is so well defined there.
Secondly and more importantly, I think we agree in principle, but I think that all cam-sites of SIZE will move in an MFC direction. However, I also think that AdultWork is a fantastic example of "have your cake and eat it too" and I intend to see to it, for my part, that the next generation of camsites follows more in THAT vein. In fact the jumping off point for the camsite we're working on was "Kind of a cross between mfc and adultwork" and then we ran from there...But I stand by the Genie out the bottle concept of MFC, and that right now the market has a TON of camsites that resemble stream, and actually 0 that truly resemble MFC. And MFC is draining traffic from all the others. So what do you think happens as more "MFC-like" sites open up? All with their own twist on things and their own slant. But all offering the carnival midway atmosphere that draws a huge number of mainstream cammers.
Example: I will have in my possession a site which has the carvival midway, free-chat atmosphere. Hypothetically, I open my mainstream site and it is successful...So why would I not open a specialty boutique site for JUST fetish and BBW and MILF and Mature, and Women of Color and so on? All using the model that makes "MFC-like" great....There is a huge open black hole right now, begging to be filled.
Do I think it will ever be "only MFC-like sites"? Absolutely not.
Do I think that MFC and it's influence will forever change the camming environment and alter how camming works forever? Absolutely!
Once Google came, it could never go back to Altavista days...Once World of Warcraft hit, the entire field of play for online gaming had to catch up. I believe MFC is already and will be even moreso that game changer for webcamming.
Not every game is World of Warcraft, and not every search engine is Google, but every one that even tries to step on the field had better be prepared to dance with WoW and Google....same thing here I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
laurielegs
I also don't think there is going to be one huge cam site (myfreecams or any other one) that takes all of the market or makes all other cam sites go to free chat.
Let me ask, has any truly successful camsite launched since MFC? We're talking BIG traffic.
I mean before MFC there were two or three a year that rose and were popular and faded and a new one came along, and so on....What did 2010 bring? Even 2009?
I'm not being a smartass here, I just see that MFC stopped things in their tracks. I will add that the recession helped, but MANY MANY MANY adult sites opened in the last 2 years, just no really good sized camsites at least none I know about.
I believe this is because no-one has a clue how to really "take-on" MFC. My vanity tells me I *do*, but for all my posting and experience, I could very well be wrong. I hold no illusions, and I believe that having models play a huge part, and truly working to make something special will win out. But it will be a tough haul.
So long as there is ONLY MFC that is like MFC, it will be a stand-off. But once the competitors to MFC show up, things will get truly interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
laurielegs
I believe there will also always be men who go more for the fetish type things (huge huge money there) and you can actually bank on just a few customers who will be overjoyed they have found someone to fulfill their particular fetish.
Absolutely! And this is why I so intensely *harp* on being original, unique and bringing a flair as if this is your stage and your performance is for all the marbles...
No disagreement at all here. I also have MANY plans for the sites I'm proposing to be places that BREED and reward originality and uniqueness, and difference, so a cam customer can find almost anything when he comes to visit our midway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
laurielegs
Once you tap into a fetish, these customers can be incredibly loyal. Niteflirt used to be especially good for that (and seems to be picking up again somewhat for that also). I'm puzzled why you overlook these niche type markets. It's true not every cam host can cater to those, but I'd be stupid not to scoop up what money I can from places like clips4sale and the fetish market (and I've been way too lazy about it lately, getting back into the groove this year again).
My gosh Laurie, if you think I don;t think those are incredibly important assets, then I am SO not 'doing my job' here....
I am a promoter at heart. Clips is heaven for me, indy sites are like my joyous playground, social networking, and yes, absolutely fetish in all it's forms (secret...I run a couple of fet sites)...But face it...MOST girls rely on one the big three sites or AW for their MAIN income. there are girls who do ALL indy and girls who do ALL NF or constantly work their clips, but the vast majority of the thousands of camgirls out there are on MFC or Stream or both, and a really high percentage of the rest are on like 5 other sites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
laurielegs
Nearly every host has something unique they can exploit and I think it's a mistake to think that everyone *has* to do nude shows in public or that every host will be forced to conform to any particular style of chat or show. The key is offering something unique.
AMEN!!! So how do you show 50,000 girls doing 45,000 BORING shows that the key is uniqueness? That settling for the big box sites is NOT in their best interest? That even if they are on a big box site, they should be doing stuff no-one else does?
We agree completely, and I truly want to thank you for allowing me to clarify a very important lacking in the posts I did to start this thread...shit, you clarified it for me...
B
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
I also think that AdultWork is a fantastic example of have your cake and eat it too and I intend to see to it, for my part, that the next generation of camsites follows more in THAT vein. In fact the jumping off point for the camsite we're working on was Kind of a cross between mfc and adultwork
Example: I will have in my possession a site which has the carvival midway, free-chat atmosphere. Hypothetically, I open my mainstream site and it is successful...So why would I not open a specialty boutique site for JUST fetish and BBW and MILF and Mature, and Women of Color and so on? All using the model that makes MFC-like great....There is a huge open black hole right now, begging to be filled.
That sounds like it will be amazing! Looking forward to it for sure. I really think if we all put our heads together we can make some huge money and make camming interesting and fun as well as profitable.
Just reading posts here, networking a bit and being inspired to do more branching out has already increased my personal income.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snowC
I completely agree with all the points Laurie said, and I disagree that it is all heading towards a free chat only cam world.
Free chat and free preview btw are two different things. You said the days of a guy looking at pics and having to decide from that, will be over. Well, for the sake of argument, even if that is true, I'm not against him having a free preview, we're talking a peek here or 30secs. But that is very different to sitting in free chat all day. I would be more open to free chat if I felt the rules and playing field are fair, which currently they are not. And given the choice, to cam girls who are currently doing very well in back to back prvs on the non free chat sites of the world AW, NF etc, free chat, especially on MFC, is an incredibly high effort, likely low pay out gamble to take. Some may hit it big, but many will not, and just because they cannot work a room on MFC does not necessarily make them bad camgirls. In short, I still believe there will still remain more diversity in the cam world.
Thanks to you as well, and let me backpeddle a bit. If I did come across as saying anything will go away and cease to exist (and I probably did, I'm NOT the greatest communicator...sorry)...I do not believe that to be the case. What I do believe is that the mainstream will become more and more open, sexual, etc. Freechat will be much more the norm than it is today, and by this I mean longer form free chat like MFC. If the next generation of sites follow the model, they will not contain "Paid Only Chat" as an option. If I have my say, it will always be an option, or at least I will always have a site where it is.
This sentence:
"free chat, especially on MFC, is an incredibly high effort, likely low pay out gamble to take."
does not actually affect the outcome much. Since if there are 10 large freechat sites out there doing well, and 90% of customers hang out there, it doesn't matter whether it is high effort and possible low pay because 90% of the market is there. As can be seen right now by the HUGE complaints as Stream become more like MFC. And if you take Stream and MFC you are talking about a HUGE slice of this market, and even AW has DirectCam with Free Chat, and a lot of girls are signing up there, and I believe that the more sign and do free chat the more the non-free chat women will suffer. I generally do not see many men PREFERRING to pick a girl from a profile over a moving video, although as you say about preview and Laurie says about a preference for un-crowded and not chat room atmosphere, those guys come in, watch a minute, and then just take you private for 70 minutes...but I still think that as free chat expands on these sites, it will lessen the appeal to customers of women picked from profiles.
And no, not being able to work a room on MFC doesn't make you a bad camgirl, but it might make you a much much more pigeon-holed camgirl with far less options in the future. That remains to be seen, because the one place we disagree is that the future hold tons of diversity. I see that getting less in the way you are talking about. However, I see the uniqueness factor and the originality factor remaining as it is or even growing. Unless of course something comes along and really changes the whole game. Who knows? Could happen...
B
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
10-15 years ago, if you put up a site with still pics of you wearing costumes and prancing about naked and semi-clothed, you made bank and people would subscribe in droves. Put up a site with pics of your feet, or you in panties, or you sucking off your hubbies best friend, or you fisting or being spanked, you made BANK...If you had a cam that would update 3 times per minute (still pics) guys flocked to your site in droves and you could become an overnight millionaire.
But as Flash developed and webcams got better and bandwidth increased, those things disappeared and got phased out. Also as it caught on that Adult Websites make HUGE bank with almost no Work!! 40 skapillion adult sites opened and it got really hard to make bank compared to before. That was when the first real camsites were flourishing, almost all of them using almost exclusively "studio models" from eastern Europe and Asia. Almost NONE of those original sites allowed you to see a miovng image of a live girl for FREE! Are you kidding!?! You paid to see the model MOVE and chat and be live...cams.com years ago is not even recognizable to what it is now...
but as video improved and cams improved even more and bandwidth gets cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, the move to freechat at almost all the big sites began. Some did preview chat and other did longer form chat, but until MFC no-one much really did a wide open free atmosphere.
So, I follow this evolution and watch it go to its inevitable conclusion. Could that conclusion change? Maybe, but someone will have to make that happen. Because otherwise that aspect is inevitable.
B
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
This is so depressing I kind of want to go cry now actually...
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
But this isn't about "to show or not to show" as much as it is about embracing being an adult entertainer, and once you can embrace the adult part (which is what all that up there is about) you then need to embrace the entertainer part. Because 80% of all webcam girls are fucking BORING. Go on and go look and gon through every girl on stream and mark down a check for every one who really entertains you and makes you want to watch, and a check for every one who bored the tits off you...then go to MFC and start at the BOTTOM and do the same thing...Try AW...and I bet you'll be pretty close to my numbers, 8 out of 10 are eithe run-of-the-mill or outright boring.
B
Would you love to hear from me if I totally agree?
8)
I scoped out a lot of sites doing research for the site I am building, and you are right. Most of the girls were just sitting around. The ones that engaged the customers got lots of tips even if they weren't doing full nudity. I think that for every guy just looking for naked boobies, there are 10 who would prefer a woman who makes them feel special, if only for a few minutes. It's why the great ones are great. It's not the body,it's the ATTITUDE. It is a show, not an open blind to your bedroom window!
I really enjoy the thoughtful quality of your posts. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Webstud
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Thanks!
It's very important to remember you are a performer, and to make sure that if you sitting around being bored, it is because you are going for the "sitting around being bored chick" dollar....You should be working your ass off at being the "sitting around being bored chick" ("sabbc") and you should research the demographics that "sabbc" appeals to. Market Studies indicate the "sabbc" segment of the market is a consistent underperformer, unless you truly become the consummate "sabbc"...
B
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
I think you're missing something here. I believe that the MFC business model is doomed for one reason and one reason only - what they are doing is ILLEGAL. Allowing girls to fuck their asses with a cucumber in free chat with NO age verification is highly illegal in the vast majority of countries. It is only a matter of time before national governments crack down on this. I would not be surprised if the FBI are already looking into this. Add into this the trafficking issue and you can see how law enforcement agencies worldwide are going to be all over sites like MFC as they become more mainstream (which is rapidly happening). Finally, i suspect that some of the taxation practices of companies like MFC would also be of interest to national governments - look what has happened with the poker sites like Full Tilt - their owners are looking at lengthy jail terms for basically avoiding paying tax in the states. Now i'm not saying that MFC are evading paying tax but these sort of companies are hardly reputable (certainly no more reputable than Full Tilt Poker) so who knows whether they pay their taxes correctly or not?
My prediction - MFC in its current form will be shut down in the next three years. Now that's not to say that they wont continue to operate by first making all guests sign up and go through age verification but that will mean they have to come up with an entirely new business model which will take time and cost money. That cost, coupled with the heavy fines that they will have received, might mean that cannot afford to re-vamp and start again and while they are fighting the case someone else will have filled the void with a business model that doesn't rely on a 'free for all' concept.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
... age verification ... the trafficking issue ... some of the taxation practices..."
MFC in its current form will be shut down in the next three years.
I guess that is like the trifecta of crime, so kudos for working them into your post :P If people started sending screen captures of women being naked or "working" on cam with a child in the background to the ASACP something might get done, but don't assume some government agency is acting as an ever vigilant watchdog.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
I think you're missing something here. I believe that the MFC business model is doomed for one reason and one reason only - what they are doing is ILLEGAL. Allowing girls to fuck their asses with a cucumber in free chat with NO age verification is highly illegal in the vast majority of countries. It is only a matter of time before national governments crack down on this. I would not be surprised if the FBI are already looking into this. Add into this the trafficking issue and you can see how law enforcement agencies worldwide are going to be all over sites like MFC as they become more mainstream (which is rapidly happening). Finally, i suspect that some of the taxation practices of companies like MFC would also be of interest to national governments - look what has happened with the poker sites like Full Tilt - their owners are looking at lengthy jail terms for basically avoiding paying tax in the states. Now i'm not saying that MFC are evading paying tax but these sort of companies are hardly reputable (certainly no more reputable than Full Tilt Poker) so who knows whether they pay their taxes correctly or not?
My prediction - MFC in its current form will be shut down in the next three years. Now that's not to say that they wont continue to operate by first making all guests sign up and go through age verification but that will mean they have to come up with an entirely new business model which will take time and cost money. That cost, coupled with the heavy fines that they will have received, might mean that cannot afford to re-vamp and start again and while they are fighting the case someone else will have filled the void with a business model that doesn't rely on a 'free for all' concept.
All of this is VERY speculative, and thusfar has NOT proven out to be the case at ALL. MFC has been around for SEVERAL years, and has been VERY popular and "on the radar" for at least 2-3 years, and yet through every prediction of shutdown, none of this has EVER happened. So Im not really missing anything...honestly...I disagree with your assessment wholeheartedly, and think that the more likely scenario is that we see a disclaimer page put up on MFC at some point if they start feeling heat.
I also add that there may very well be a deliberate action going on here. One in which MFC is testing the waters to make a case for a "common carrier" like decision. Which would mean the GIRLS are responsible for their actions as INDEPENDENT contractors using the space on MFCs network, in an un-editted function. Common Carrier status is given to internet providers in MANY ways now, and has always been a function of the phone company...For those unfamiliar, just understand it this way...If you and I make a deal for drugs or to murder a person, and we do so over the telephone, the telephone company does not get shutdown because their users did something illegal using their network. The same has been held for Internet providers and even Classified Ad places like CL. This was WHY CL removed Adult Services, because their lawyers told them it COULD jeopardize their nominal common carrier status. So, MFC can make the argument that they made rules against the cucumbers in the vag scenario and the INDEPENDENT contractor chose to ignore those rules and the laws in various countries, and break them.
Either way, I see it as a very interesting way things could play out.
Do I think MFC does things too loosely and takes chances? Yes.
Do I think they will get busted? Possibly.
Will it shut them down or even materially really hurt them? NO.
Because it is actually pretty easy to add a disclaimer page, like every other site showing naked women fucking themselves with dildos and such, and end your argument. Redtube and other porno video sites do NOT do anymore and are also yet to be touched at all.
The TAX stuff is PURE speculation, and ANY company COULD be NOT paying taxes and get shut down...we have no idea if any company is paying taxes and so to single out MFC over Stream or any other cam site as "possibly not paying taxes" is meaningless, since this can be said of ANY company.
So, overall, we can agree to disagree, because in most ways, I very much disagree. MFC is there today, has been there for YEARS and no investigation or action is forthcoming from any evidence any person can produce, and so the evidence of there NOT being any action against them thusfar after YEARS, is much more compelling than anyone's opinion otherwise.
B
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Well i take your point and you certainly made it forcibly but i'd be very surprised if national government agencies are not looking into this. In Europe sex trafficking is a big problem and huge amounts of manpower and resources are being put into trying to stop it. MFC (and plenty of other cam sites for that matter) could be seen as part of this problem and it is for this reason that i predict very difficult times ahead for MFC. The cucumber in the vag scenario is merely a symptom - it's increasing the chances that sites like MFC will be scrutinised more closely but it's not the thing that will really get them into hot water.
All it takes is one cam girl to be murdered, one politician to be caught sleeping with a cam girl, one religious group to get a bee in their bonnet over it and the whole game will will be blown wide open. Then they'll start looking more closely - what do you think they'll discover? Does it promote prostitution? Does it promote trafficking? Look what happened to Craigslist. Governments are very slow to react to this sort of thing but they do get round to it eventually. The difference here is that the 'adult section' was just one part of Craigslist - the 'adult section' of MFC IS their business. If they were investigated one of the first things that would happen is that the site would be closed down pending the outcome of the investigation. MFC down for months, even if they were found to be doing nothing illegal, would they survive? I doubt it.
The fact that MFC has been around for years means nothing - it takes years to build a case against an individual nevermind an organisation. Putting a disclaimer on the website will not cut it - as employers (whether you're an independent contractor or not is irrelevant in most countries) they have a responsibility both to safeguard their employees and the public at large. The lax attitude of MFC means that it is this site that will be the obvious target and i don't think it will be difficult to build a case against seeing as they don't even require age verification. Have they been acting responsibly? Have they been doing everything in their power to protect their employess and the public? I think one thing we can agree on is the answers to those questions - NO and NO.
The big difference between the tube sites and cam sites is that real people are involved, real interaction, the real chance to meet with someone. You cannot compare the two - this is a category mistake. Underage boys watching porn on a website is a passive act, people meeting cam girls online and then meeting them in real life (you and i both know this happens) is an active act with far more serious potential consequences. What if the person doing the meeting is underage? I think you can see that your comparison doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
However i could be wrong - i have been in the past and no doubt will be in the future. Maybe the free for all that is MFC will continue unabated forever more or maybe the bubble will burst. Only time will tell.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Oh - and yeah totally agree with you on the tax thing - i went off on a tangent then - was really just thinking out loud.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
I feel like the only one getting in trouble there would be the camgirl. The site has already protected itself by making it against the rules.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
boobygirl, why are you even on this forum?
.. your troll-speak will not be tolerated for long.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Slab4508
boobygirl, why are you even on this forum?
.. your troll-speak will not be tolerated for long.
Excuse me? Who the hell are you, the thought police?
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
So much thought was put into this post, I love it.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
I
My prediction - MFC in its current form will be shut down in the next three years. Now that's not to say that they wont continue to operate by first making all guests sign up and go through age verification but that will mean they have to come up with an entirely new business model which will take time and cost money. That cost, coupled with the heavy fines that they will have received, might mean that cannot afford to re-vamp and start again and while they are fighting the case someone else will have filled the void with a business model that doesn't rely on a 'free for all' concept.
I actually just signed up and its unbelievably easy. I have no idea how they're doing business without getting in trouble. There wasn't even a request for my id. Just a button that said are you over 18 yes or no. I am almost 30 now (sh.... that's a secret btw) so not really a problem for me but what happens when some 16year old high schooler decides oh this is easy - her parents find out and sue them. Anyways, I guess I don't care just thought it was too easy.
-
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
interesting....when I signed up a few months ago I had to send two forms of age verification.....I thought you were referring to the customer verifying they were legal?? I signed up directly with the site though.....I could see how studios could get away with that