Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Very interesting thread... and up to this point, I would have to agree with BoobyGirl on many of the points she's made. I'll go further and add that what tube sites are doing to subscription and VOD porn sites, MFC is doing to the cam business. It's teaching a generation of Net users that adult entertainment is free. Only a sucker pays for porn and the opportunity to see sexy, naked bodies.
Here are a few points in answer to previous posts in this thread...
1. If, and more like when, MCF is shut down, it's going to take a lot more than a disclaimer page for them to get back up and on. They will need to verify age and protect adults-only content by charging admission to their site... just like it was in the old days of porn. This is the only methodology available now that will go some distance in preventing under age people from being exposed to what goes on at MFC (and tube sites). Age-verfication via credit card was mandatory at one point in the history of online adult... don't know why or how it fell by the wayside, but the completely unbrideled distribution of material that most communities in the world define as obscene or at least adults-only is going to sooner or later force regulation again. This will lay waste to MFC's current business model and level the playing field.
2. MFC isn't that hard to find if you're into cams. The keyword phrase "free porn" is the most searched term on the Net. And, MFC shows up in the results. What's keeping MFC from compleletly monopolizing the cams business is that it doesn't meet the desires of everyone who enjoys camming. There are still discriminating buyers out there. For one, their technical platform is crappy at best. Streams freeze up and are choppy. Resolution is very average. A person who really wants to watch cam shows in TV-like HD quality is going to go to Streamate. They're consistently the best in this regard. MFC's aesthetics (a true oxymoron) and its navigation are horrific. Essentially, it's a disgraceful attempt at good web design. And, like others have said, there will always be buyers who prefer private, Cam2Cam encounters instead of the circus-like, avatar-excessive open chat at MFC. For me personally, the idiot customers who thrive at MFC make being there a disgusting experience.
Summarily speaking, it's true that MFC has already forced some changes in the cam business that are not in the best interests of the business over the long haul. Streamate has the new "gold" feature and other sites that were formally tipping-free, now accommodate or are moving to introduce a tipping feature to make free chat more liberal and open. But, with the possible exception of Naked.com, it doesn't look-like anybody's rushing to be an MFC clone to protect their turf. And, there is probably good reason for that not being obviously evident to all of us who don't operate competitive cam networks. My guess is that "fear" of the consequences for being as reckless as MFC is, in the face of producing a responsible, decent, common-sense presentation of adult entertainment is a part of it.
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
Well i take your point and you certainly made it forcibly but i'd be very surprised if national government agencies are not looking into this. In Europe sex trafficking is a big problem and huge amounts of manpower and resources are being put into trying to stop it. MFC (and plenty of other cam sites for that matter) could be seen as part of this problem and it is for this reason that i predict very difficult times ahead for MFC. The cucumber in the vag scenario is merely a symptom - it's increasing the chances that sites like MFC will be scrutinised more closely but it's not the thing that will really get them into hot water.
The thing is, all of the above is again speculative. I mean we can all sit around and predict something that hasn;t ever happened WILL happen. One of the most common ways Republicans (especially on Fox) attack Democrats/Liberals/Socialists is by taking scenarios and taking "what-Ifs" and turning them into "gonna happen" and this is just a debate tactic...it doesn't have much to do with real reality in the here and now. We're under a Democratic President, and this means that GENERALLY the justice dept. will look the other way MUCH more on porn and internet freedom. We'll SEE how it plays out...
Please also understand, I'm not saying that MFC will NOT be shut down, but that thusfar there is NO indication whatsoever that anyone gives a flying fuck about them, and speculation is just that. The FBI may be ONE day away from slamming down hard on MFC, and we wouldn't know one way or the other for sure...till it happens...but thusfar, there is NO indication this is going to happen, and I believe if it does, to avoid selective prosecution, SM, MFC, and any others that have ANY nudity available for free will be targeted...in fact, I would not be SURPRISED if MFC gets by and SM gets slammed, since SM sends pop-ups on non-adult sites, of adult content...meaning they send NAKED MASTURBATING ladies to your screen and you DIDN'T request them. MFC doesn't do that.
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Originally Posted by
boobygirl
All it takes is one cam girl to be murdered, one politician to be caught sleeping with a cam girl, one religious group to get a bee in their bonnet over it and the whole game will will be blown wide open. Then they'll start looking more closely - what do you think they'll discover?
A camsite which ostensibly made all the things which are illegal against the rules, and a bunch of independent contractors breaking the law. I believe the justice department will subpoena the records of MFC and they will go after the WOMEN. Since they are MUCH easier to prosecute. IF they go after it at all...that is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
Does it promote prostitution? Does it promote trafficking? Look what happened to Craigslist. Governments are very slow to react to this sort of thing but they do get round to it eventually. The difference here is that the 'adult section' was just one part of Craigslist - the 'adult section' of MFC IS their business.
CL is a very bad example, since CL voluntarily shut it down when asked in a letter from a bunch of District Attorneys...So it equats to a letter to MFC asking them to better screen for minors, and they comply by adding either Age Verification or even just a disclaimer page like every other adult site uses.
Also, CL was proven to have at least SOME underage Prostitution online...not much granted...but it was ACTUAL solicitation...This cannot be proen for MFC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
If they were investigated one of the first things that would happen is that the site would be closed down pending the outcome of the investigation. MFC down for months, even if they were found to be doing nothing illegal, would they survive? I doubt it.
That doesn't happen...at least not how you just said it...I have a friend who had all their equipment taken by the Justice Department, and they had their site back up (with new equipment and backups) within a week. Until a verdict is handed down, the site can keep operating, unless an injunction is gotten because there can be patently illegal activity shown to a Judge to be the BASIS of the site, and even then, the site just has to remove the illegal activity being reported...(ie. Adding the disclaimer page or whatever)..I'm sie our resident lawyer could better comment on this, but this was my real-life experience of how it comes down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
The fact that MFC has been around for years means nothing - it takes years to build a case against an individual nevermind an organisation.
Not THIS many years...MFC has been doing things the way they do them for SEVERAL years. I strongly disagree that an investigation of MFC has crossed presidential elections, FBI chiefs, etc. It just isn;t that high priority for Justice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
Putting a disclaimer on the website will not cut it - as employers (whether you're an independent contractor or not is irrelevant in most countries) they have a responsibility both to safeguard their employees and the public at large. The lax attitude of MFC means that it is this site that will be the obvious target and i don't think it will be difficult to build a case against seeing as they don't even require age verification. Have they been acting responsibly? Have they been doing everything in their power to protect their employess and the public? I think one thing we can agree on is the answers to those questions - NO and NO.
Independent Contractor...do you understand what that means? It means YOU are responsible for the show you put on on MFC. MFC does NOT employ you....they act as a site where you can put on YOUR show. Read the contract...it is clear that MFC (and SM and IMLive and all the other bigboxes) make you responsible for your content and legality. They follow the law and make doubly sure you are over 18, and they post clear and well spelled out rules for your behavior. Then as an Independent Contractor, you go on and ram cucumbers up yer snatch, and YOU broke the law, not MFC.
I also think the case of live sex pop-ups from LJ and SM is MUCH more of an obvious target, since it is MUCH more likely little Johnny or Little Sara are gonna get smacked in the face by some flapping labia and have Mom scream to the FBI about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
The big difference between the tube sites and cam sites is that real people are involved, real interaction, the real chance to meet with someone. You cannot compare the two - this is a category mistake. Underage boys watching porn on a website is a passive act, people meeting cam girls online and then meeting them in real life (you and i both know this happens) is an active act with far more serious potential consequences. What if the person doing the meeting is underage? I think you can see that your comparison doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
I think it does. I think that Dating Sites, and Sugar-Daddy Sites, and Guaranteed to Have an Affair, and CraigsList and Backpage, and many many other sites are FAR more likely to endure the scrutiny you are talking about...I think Tube sites are filled with copyright infringement, videos of barely legal girls that were stolen from 4chan where they were stolen by a boyfriend, and so are illegal to begin with, and also with fringe porn that is BARELY legal as it stands with no real age verification...we're talking the internet is now FULL of THOUSANDS of sites which are just as illegal and moreso than MFC....which DOESN'T contain hardcore sex between men and women....
Also, your point up there is moot, because it doesn't apply to MFC, but ANY cam site, and so again, other cam sites a re just likely or moreso to be busted on these things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobygirl
However i could be wrong - i have been in the past and no doubt will be in the future. Maybe the free for all that is MFC will continue unabated forever more or maybe the bubble will burst. Only time will tell.
Me too...time will tell, but dire predictions have no place in a rational life, unless there is clear evidence showing they SHOULD. I do not yet see such evidence.
B
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cams
It's teaching a generation of Net users that adult entertainment is free. Only a sucker pays for porn and the opportunity to see sexy, naked bodies.
Here are a few points in answer to previous posts in this thread...
I thank you for your thoughts. I disagree however for the reasons in the post above.
I think that SM using pop-ups of LIVE cam girls who are often the MOST XXX rated on the site (I had a pop-up from them just 3 days ago that was a pussy-eaters eye view of the woman in question, and the pussy in question was open bare and visible, and this was on a forum site which was NOT adult in nature) is VERY likely to cause a BIG stir, and that overall MFC does not do that...they don;t shit anywhere but in their OWN pond....shitting in OTHER ponds will get you in trouble quick generally.
As far as MFC driving down the quality and monetability of camming, THAT we completely agree on. The "Free" model works...but one has to know how to make money off of free stuff...:) seems like an oxymoron, but there's a few pretty darn good business books out about the free economy that is coming....because it isn't just porn, but MANY areas where free is becoming the norm.
B
Re: Camming. What makes it tick? Come discuss.
I'm gonna post about this later....but I wanted to add to this thread that whatever one thinks about MFC or Stream or whatever, webcamming is changing. I'm honestly kind of glad too. Because I think that the days of buy a cam and sit there and they throw money at you are more or less over, and have been for a while.
But I think a lot of women treat camming like those days are still here and they are entitled. I mean, think about the cam companies and the studios all advertising $2000 per week. How many of you actually AVERAGE $2k per week from ONE cam source with nothing else included?
But $2k per week WAS pretty easy before. Really. And as promoters it was always what we shot for from the camming (we did so much more though too) alone. I can still make most girls I work with $2k a week if they are willing to put in the work and prmote the hell out of themselves, but it isn't NEARLY as easy as it used to be.
So it's my belief that anything that shakes out the rug and gets rid of the dust bunnies is a good thing....know what I mean? A "free camming" environment is a challenge, but it is really an opportunity for the creative and interesting girl who is willing to put in the effort, to be able to shine like a diamond. The women who just wanna get by or get on easy street are going to find it REALLY hard to stay in this game, and that might not, overall, be a bad thing.
B