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abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
the 'my bf wont let me dance' thread got me thinking. we have posts a plenty on here of what to do when with an abusive SO, be it emotional or physical, and posts on here encouraging girls to get out-- but i ahve to wonder, what compels someone to act this way towards their SO?
I dated an emotionally abusive male once... he pretended to have cancer to manipulate me into staying with him, among other things. he didnt just lie to me, but to his friends as well. fortunately i had a solid group of friends who were able to convince me to leave.
back when i was in high school, i think i was more on the manipulative side. but then again, i feel like teenage girls in general tend to be manipulative due to insecurities. my high school relationship is my model of how NOT to behave to someone i care about. and the relationship with cancer boy taught me to never get involved with someone like that again. between stripping and that relationship, i dont think i will ever fall for shit like this again.
but what do you guys think makes a man act like this? i just cant imagine living with myself while completely lying about who i am and intentionally taking control over someones life. its over my head. thoughts?
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
I think there's many reasons why this happens and I suspect it's doue to insecurity. I've noticed that many of the men who are controlling are unattractive while the girlfriend is pretty. However, I've noticed that many of the men I've known like this were full blown chauvinist men and felt they had the right.
I have dated a few of these guys myself and no idea why. I think at the time I was insecure and pressured to have a boyfriend. That's why I think people stay with controlling people.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
Just finished reading this book: The Narcissism Epidemic
http://www.narcissismepidemic.com/
Interesting read and shed light on why a lot of people in America have selfish, self-centered, and generally repulsive personalities. The focus on individualism and material consumption in this society has eroded our values. Men and women nationwide were raised with and have adopted narcissistic qualities, especially since the 1970s.
"What matters most is me, what I want, and what will make me happy right now," is the mantra of the era, even if it's at the expense of others. It's no wonder there is a degradation in how people treat each other in relationships.
I have a girlfriend who was just as much of a shit to her former boyfriend as the guy in "My boyfriend won't let me strip" thread. She constantly criticized everything about him, tried to control him, cheated on him, then physically attacked him after he broke up with her. I wondered what would cause her to behave this way towards someone she supposedly loved. My question was anwered when I matched her personality traits with that of a narcissist. They are more likely to manipulate and control, use, and abuse their partner without remorse, not because they have low self-esteem, but because they really believe they are special and better than others.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
Ha! I was going to start a thread just like this but with a different premise. Why do women continue to stay and enable abusive behavior?! Abusers abuse for many different reasons and controlling another person is appealing for many different personalities. This isn't the fault of the abused party so WHY stay and enable the bad behavior, to begin with?
To be honest, I don't care why abusers are the way they are. Once its acknowledged that the behavior is abusive, the abuser needs to seek help. Period. If they continue to abuse others, we now need to know why their partners are so invested in enabling the behavior that is adversely affecting their own lives. Once a woman realized the fact that she is involved with an abuser/manipulator/controller, at what point will she finally confront the behavior and demand a change? What would make her leave and how would she be empowered to find a better alternative? Hell, I don't even want to know what patterns may have got her into the relationship. If she's willing to acknowledge it as abusive, HOW can that dynamic be destroyed and this person be secure enough to LEAVE her abuser?
This is all based on the principles of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which encourages patients to take stock of immediate situations that are seemingly out of their control and regain control based on coping mechanisms available to them, at the time. Where does the power-exchange between the abuser and his partner (the abused) happen? How does she regain her power?
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
Why? well, sadly because it works. It starts with the destructive need to be in a relationship no matter what, and then when they let a man break them down they start believing that nobody else will have them.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
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Originally Posted by
Trem
Why? well, sadly because it works. It starts with the destructive need to be in a relationship no matter what, and then when they let a man break them down they start believing that nobody else will have them.
But it doesn't work. That's the thing. It only works for an extremely limited amount of time before the person being abused begins to suffer extreme social and emotional damage. Its not sustainable behavior. And the abused will inevitably begin to feel trapped and panicked, often in fear of her own life. A survival mechanism will ultimately kick in and this person will become more like a trapped animal. Hence, Stockholm Syndrome or Battered-Wife Syndrome. What goes up, must come down, ya know?
So, the question is: once the abused individual has come to the realization that they are being controlled/abused, how do they become empowered to leave before they, themselves deteriorate?
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
Well, it works for the guy. Not forever obviously, but this forum is proof it works plenty.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
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Originally Posted by
Trem
Well, it works for the guy. Not forever obviously, but this forum is proof it works plenty.
Again, I completely disagree. The abuser is forced to micromanage another life that he utterly resents. Because he can't truly control another life, per his specifications, this is what typically causes the escalation in abuse. Nothing is "right" for an abuser. Unless the abuser is purely a psychopath, he generally will also feel guilt for his horrible behavior and this will also cause reactionary, abusive behavior.
What I'm trying to say is abuse ultimately leads to severe mental illness. You have to be either a sadist or crazy to want to continue to abuse another person. Why would anyone want to continue on in that relationship, regardless of the fact that its at the expense of their own mental and physical health?
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
^ Agreed about it working. Every female I know has been in some type of abusive relationship at one point or another. From my personal experience, the guys who abused me--whether it was emotional, physical, or sexual--had learned that behavior from their parents, and had been rewarded for similar behavior in the past. Every time a guy says or does something nasty to you and you "forgive" him for it, you have just rewarded his behavior. After this happens a lot, it's ingrained in him; he has now learned exactly how far he can go with you taking it. And he'll only continue to push that boundary.
I dated a guy who beat and raped me. He claimed that his older brother had raped him when he was a child, and that the brother had been sexually abused by their teenage half-sister, and that she had been raped by her stepfather, who was my ex's father. He had also been beaten quite often as a child, as well as severely neglected. His parents never paid their bills, and his childhood was wrought with evictions and shitty apartments. When he turned 18, he found his credit was already destroyed because his parents had been using his social security number to open accounts that they wouldn't pay; when it went to collections, they were off scott-free. He looked at credit cards like gift cards; max it out, then don't pay it.
Another more recent ex of mine was, in retrospect, somewhat emotionally abusive, but in a very suave, under-the-radar kind of way. His parents had always had a dysfunctional relationship that finally ended in divorce when he was in college. His father was loaded and paid his way through boarding schools (including Interlochen), universities, and finally RPI. He had never had a job in his life, not even a summer or after-school job. He didn't understand the concept of work when you didn't need the money. He got a PhD in a very specialized field that is unheard of for most people in the industry, and it's a pretty large luxury for anyone to hire him; he expected six figures a year starting, and he offers a very idealistic, theoretical service that is a very new concept, and in this economy no one can afford him. He was very shocked when he left the insular RPI community to find that whereas academia had always kissed his ass, no one in the real world wanted anything to do with him. His father ended up hiring him, paying him that desired six figures, and he doesn't really do much. Hosts conferences where he just shows people random internet videos he likes to prove some idealistic, highly philosophical point about usability. So, he's learned all his life that he is better than other people, and it's okay that he considers himself above regular employment; his family rewarded that behavior, his advisors and teachers rewarded that behavior, and now he is a useless "trainer" for his dad's company, making obscene money for nothing. He was terrible in the relationship; demanded tons of changes from me while believing himself to be infallible. He truly believes he is perfect and will never for a single second even consider the possibility that he has faults. He's had enough people in his life encourage him in this.
So, in conclusion of this long, drawn-out post, people are abusive because they've been exposed to that behavior in others, and been rewarded for it themselves. It's a learning process. It takes a long time to figure this out, especially in a world where everyone thinks abuse victims are weak or products of a cycle themselves. That's not true. I was never abused or neglected as a child; I didn't meet people like this until I started dating. When you're being abused, it's not always black and white. You don't always understand what's happening to you. And sometimes, you search and search for a reason WHY, and there isn't always one. You just have to accept that you'll never know, and move on.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
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Originally Posted by
vivianbear
Again, I completely disagree.
By it works i mean the abuser gets to bang a young hot piece of ass that would never pay attention to him otherwise, that is why they do it.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
I agree with Trem.
It is certainly one of those situations where if you haven't been there yourself you end up looking at it in disbelief wondering how someone could possibly end up in that sort of scenario. There is an absolute method behind being an emotionally/physically abusive SO.
Wouldn't the trapped animal/stockholm syndrome just be validating to the abusive SO?
Children, posessions, alienation, dependency--there are thousands of reasons that people end up staying in an abusive relationship. I stayed for much longer than I should have because of a child. To this day she asks me about her dad.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
Yeah, I agree with Trem. You don't see many (any?) "So this guy I know asked me out but he's an abusive jerk so I said 'No'" threads. It's usually a boyfriend or an ex-boyfriend. Even if it's some asshole they only dated for three weeks, those guys are stil beating me by three weeks.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
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Originally Posted by
Athenathefabulous
but what do you guys think makes a man act like this? i just cant imagine living with myself while completely lying about who i am and intentionally taking control over someones life. its over my head. thoughts?
Off the top of my head, I can think of four types of people that are likely to be abusive and manipulative.
(1) The narcissist/spoiled brat - this person is accustomed to getting everything his/her way. Parents spoiled this person to compensate for their neglect or disfunctionality,... or maybe just because their parenting skills were lousy and they never said "no" or disciplined that child. The spoiled brat can have a very energetic, charismatic and happy side to him/her (they learned to act cute and sweet as a tool of manipulation), but will turn evil when he/she doesn't get what he/she wants. They learned as children that gratification is achieved by controlling people around them (i.e., their parents when they are young and their spouse and children when they are adults).
(2) The victim in a cycle of abuse - this person was abused, tormented and manipulated as a child. They grow up to imitate their tormentors and put others (i.e., spouse and kids) through the same misery. They may also have charismatic qualities - creativity, imagination, etc., because abused children must activate that part of the brain to cope with despair.
(3) Pathologically insecure person - this person has a deathly fear of losing his/her SO, so he or she must take every measure conceivable, no matter how unfair or unreasonable, to avoid that from happening.
(4) Mentally unstable - alcoholics, drug abuser, people with a chemical imbalance, etc.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
I find that when I date a man who is significantly less attractive than me he's more controlling.
I've dated a couple "ugly" guys and I'm not trying to sound like a vain bitch by saying that I'm a bit more attractive than average but anyway the relationship pattern usually goes something like this:
first couple weeks he goes on and on about how I'm out of his league and he's so lucky to be with me and blah blah blah
then he starts getting super clingy calling all the time wanting to be together 24/7
then the questioning starts and the possessive behavior accusing me of cheating or whatever
then when I attempt to nip the problem in the bud they start FREAKING out. suicide threats and whatnot. the first time it happened I got strung along for a few more months but now I don't get guilted into shit so I just break it off.
this has seriously happened to me 4 times. I have no problem dating ugly dudes if their personality attracts me but for some reason I'm more emotionally compatible with guys that are as attractive as me. again, trying not to sound vain here but I'm sure you know what I mean...
so I'm gonna come to the conclusion that it's an insecurity thing? maybe not ALWAYS about looks but in some aspect of their life they feel insecure (job, status, social life)
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
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Originally Posted by
xGigi
I find that when I date a man who is significantly less attractive than me he's more controlling.
I've dated a couple "ugly" guys and I'm not trying to sound like a vain bitch by saying that I'm a bit more attractive than average but anyway the relationship pattern usually goes something like this:
first couple weeks he goes on and on about how I'm out of his league and he's so lucky to be with me and blah blah blah
then he starts getting super clingy calling all the time wanting to be together 24/7
then the questioning starts and the possessive behavior accusing me of cheating or whatever
then when I attempt to nip the problem in the bud they start FREAKING out. suicide threats and whatnot. the first time it happened I got strung along for a few more months but now I don't get guilted into shit so I just break it off.
this has seriously happened to me 4 times. I have no problem dating ugly dudes if their personality attracts me but for some reason I'm more emotionally compatible with guys that are as attractive as me. again, trying not to sound vain here but I'm sure you know what I mean...
so I'm gonna come to the conclusion that it's an insecurity thing? maybe not ALWAYS about looks but in some aspect of their life they feel insecure (job, status, social life)
I know exactly what you mean. I'm going to sound superficial but if I date an ugly guy he better be a 10 personality wise. The reason is I've run into this with ugly men. I am not going to let any man treat me like this, but certainly not an ugly.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
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Originally Posted by
Trem
By it works i mean the abuser gets to bang a young hot piece of ass that would never pay attention to him otherwise, that is why they do it.
I agree with you completely. But not only that, he also has access to her resources (whether it be money, transportation, etc) and act however he wants (cheating, lying etc) with the knowledge that there are no repercussions. He can always have the back up girl, because she will never leave.
There are also certain personality traits these guys look for in their victims. It's a good idea to be aware of these so you won't be an easy target.
It's never happened to me because I'm either too caught up in my own current affairs, or I just didn't care. "I'll kill myself!" Fine, go ahead. I don't care. Not my problem. Want to call me names or try and be manipulative? Fine. I'll either beat you at your own game, or drop you at the first hint of that behavior; because there is (was) always something/someone better waiting anyway.
I never loved anyone until I met my husband. I tried a few times, but turned out TRYING to love someone doesn't exactly work the same.
Now that I'm with someone I love, would I put up with that behaviour? Still no- because if he loved me, he wouldn't act a fool in the first place.
Oh and with this "Let" thing? Unless it's something the two of you have talked about and agreed upon, there is no "let". You don't need permission to live your life, especially from men who are disposable.
If this is really a topic that merits discussion, I'd be willing to share a detailed account on it; including the whys, hows etc. Wouldn't paint me in a favourable light, but these days I'm trying to refocus and regenerate these experiences into valuable avoidance material for women (and men to some degree)- just like my previous post in here. Not make a separate topic about it, but I'd be willing to post it here.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
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Originally Posted by
Trem
By it works i mean the abuser gets to bang a young hot piece of ass that would never pay attention to him otherwise, that is why they do it.
Yep. It happens over and over and over again in the clubs I have worked in. Then the women who let themselves be pissed all over blame it all on guys, instead of taking any responsibility for their own colossal mistakes in character judgment.
I was in an interesting situation where the woman blamed me for being controlling after we broke up. Yet she was far, far worse than I ever dreamed of being. Not to blame her in return, it was a bad deal all the way around and I should have known better than to get involved with her. But I thought it was funny she would pin the same behavior she so clearly showed on me. :D
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
Insecurity. They aren't confident in themselves on some level, so they need to put a thumb on the girl and keep on her for fear of being left, etc.
And I think a lot of women who end up with that type also didn't have a father figure growing up, so it seems nice at first...and they don't know any better since there was never a role model around for them to see proper male behavior. By the time they realize they're in a shitty relationship, they're half-buried.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
on topic with this thread.... yesterday my good friend/fuck buddy, we will call him R, came by for a drink really upset. turns out he just found out that his best friend, we will call him M, was very emotionally abusive towards his woman (who is also his friend). i guess this girl talked to R earlier in the day and almost broke down crying about the way M treated her. my fuck buddy grew up in a household with a father who was very emotionally abusive towards R's mother. and i guess mistreating women, even if not physical, is one of the things that really gets R pissed. And now R is questioning his friendship with M in light of this.
its complicated. I did not have much constructive advice for him. For me personally, when it comes to my friends, if they beat up or sexually assault their women, then im not going to remain friends with them. But most of my friends do cheat etc. on their girlfriends and it has never affected my friendship with them, i feel like when you are friends with someone you overlook a lot. However, none of my friends (as far as i know) do the whole emotional abuse and manipulation game towards their women... i think in general i try to stay the fuck away from emotional vampires, even if they are not draining me.
I guess i am lucky that my friend/fuck buddy feels so strongly on this issue. But i dont have any constructive advice for him.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
This is no excuse but it may be an explanation: Sometimes bc of living arrangements its hard to get out of an abusive relationship. What if the person cant afford rent on her own? WHat if finding a compatible roommate is hard to come by? Sometimes the female has to wait until she has a feasible option to get the fuck out. SHe may not want to put herself in a financially unsupportable situation which in the long run may compound the already existing problem.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
As far as guys go some feel "entitled" usually though the chauvinist pig attitude to treat women like shit. It makes them feel better by making someone else suffer. They are sick freaks usually in denial.
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
Sometimes the victim doesn't realize they are in an abusive relationship for years. Some of the abuse signs are subtle. I didn't realize it till only a couple years ago. Unfortunately I am not financially stable nor able to find another place at the moment. I thought it was because he is bipolar. It's not only that, but he is also an alcoholic and an insecure jerk. I did try in the past to get away from him, had my own apartment, but that went south when my apartment burned 6 months after moving in. I had to go back to living with him. I've dealt with his suicide threats. I'm not stupid by any means. I do deal with depression but it's not so bad that I have to be medicated for it. I do feel like I'm not worth someone else's time because of him. I feel like I can't do any better than him. A friend of mine is a very strong woman and she's in an abusive relationship. It's not just a weaker person who can get in one.
Heck right now I'm sitting in Lakewood Village killing time till I can go talk to my old manager about my shifts. I'm doing that because I was told to get out again. At least the truck has air lol. I don't have family I can talk to (they don't understand) nor do I have a friend I can stay with. I have 3 dogs and no getting rid of them is not an option (they are show dogs in obedience, rally and agility). Those are a couple reasons (aside from the dogs) why people sometimes will stay in a relationship like that.
(I'm doing this on my phone so it might have gone a little off kilter).
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
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Originally Posted by
Mr Hyde
Insecurity. They aren't confident in themselves on some level, so they need to put a thumb on the girl and keep on her for fear of being left, etc.
And I think a lot of women who end up with that type also didn't have a father figure growing up, so it seems nice at first...and they don't know any better since there was never a role model around for them to see proper male behavior. By the time they realize they're in a shitty relationship, they're half-buried.
I was in a very abusive relationship for years..
MR.Hyde's reply is 100% on the spot...
#1 reason got to be this " a lot of women who end up with that type also didn't have a father figure growing up".. statistics show that women who did not have a(good) father figure growing up are making poor decisions later on in life..
#2 weak Personality ( cant stick up for themselves ).. but this again has to do with # 1.
# 3. Fear ( unfortunately is related to # 1 )
#4 reason : tenancy to THINK they can change the man and they can save the world.(has to do with # 1)
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Re: abusive and controlling SOs--- why?
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Originally Posted by
fantasiarene
Sometimes the victim doesn't realize they are in an abusive relationship for years. Some of the abuse signs are subtle. I didn't realize it till only a couple years ago. Unfortunately I am not financially stable nor able to find another place at the moment. I thought it was because he is bipolar. It's not only that, but he is also an alcoholic and an insecure jerk. I did try in the past to get away from him, had my own apartment, but that went south when my apartment burned 6 months after moving in. I had to go back to living with him. I've dealt with his suicide threats. I'm not stupid by any means. I do deal with depression but it's not so bad that I have to be medicated for it. I do feel like I'm not worth someone else's time because of him. I feel like I can't do any better than him. A friend of mine is a very strong woman and she's in an abusive relationship. It's not just a weaker person who can get in one.
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Ah, every one of your sentences makes me cringe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fantasiarene
Sometimes the victim doesn't realize they are in an abusive relationship for years. You can not "not realize it" Use Your common sense.Some of the abuse signs are subtle. If a dear friend of yours would tell you some of the "Signs", would you think they are subtle? Or would u tell her to open her eyes? I didn't realize it till only a couple years ago. Maybe you did not want to admit it... which is different..Unfortunately I am not financially stable nor able to find another place at the moment. Being stable financial is UP TO YOU.It takes hard work and dedication, BUT it is possible. I thought it was because he is bipolar. Bipolar is a fancy word lately created to give an excuse to people who act stupid/weird/foolish. It's not only that, but he is also an alcoholic and an insecure jerk. So leave him. you can do better. I did try in the past to get away from him, had my own apartment, but that went south when my apartment burned 6 months after moving in. While you were "forced" to live with him, you should have looked/worked hard to create other opportunities for yourself. I had to go back to living with him. Unless you;re stuck in JAIL, you always have options. U dont have to do things u dont want to....I've dealt with his suicide threats.And why did you? U dont have to. deal with anything you dont want to.. I'm not stupid by any means. You;re not stupid, you are foolish.Open your eyes and try to see things for what they really are. I do deal with depression but it's not so bad that I have to be medicated for it. If you are on medication, then its bad.. I do feel like I'm not worth someone else's time because of him. You are worth anything and everything you think you are. Its all in your head....I feel like I can't do any better than him. Yes you can! You just have to want to do better. A friend of mine is a very strong woman and she's in an abusive relationship. if she puts up with abuse, she is not as strong as she thinks she is ( or you think she is..) It's not just a weaker person who can get in one. You will never find a strong person put up with abuse. Abusers strive on weak personalities..
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Do you realize it IS in your power to change things that bother you?
Unless you;re locked down in someone;s basement ......... YOU can change all these things in your life......
I've been there before. I know what Im saying, plesase dont take my replies as rude or judgmental. I dont even know you, but I feel for you so please take this for what it is.
Do some reading, buy some books on personalities and abuse....
You will see what you are going threw, millions of people have gone threw before...
The biggest invention of the century, computers and the internet, works on simple rules. Its either this, or the other. (0 or 1 ) Its not both in the same time. Same in life..
You cant do "this" and expect "that"
If you do "this" you will get " this" outcome..
If you do " that" you will get " that" outcome..
We all make mistakes and exercise poor judgment at times.
The difference is how fast we realize it and what we learn from it