Is it possible to be part of the sex industry, AND a feminist?
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Is it possible to be part of the sex industry, AND a feminist?
I have always considered myself a feminist and a stripper. Name me one other industry where the women get paid better than the men.
XOXO
Z
In the most basic sense of the word, and I know a lot of people who are more into the philosophy than I am would argue with me, feminism is simply the belief that women should have the same rights as men. I don't think that any of my rights are being taken away from me when I choose to be a stripper. Sure, I may not get the same societal respect - which, to some, may be seen as the loss of a right. But to me, that's not the loss of a right, but the result of a shitty system, and if I bow to that logic that means it will never change.
Absolutely.
Word, A_S!!
definitely possible.
No question. This debate is a lot less vigorous when it's 3rd wave feminists talking. When 2nd wavers get involved it can be a bit more heated. We're on the same side on most stuff, but pro-sex-worker stuff is more common among 3rd wavers.
simple answer. yes.
I am a feminist and to be completely honest, I was very much against the sex industry prior to my working as a dancer.
But, because I have a mental illness working a "conventional life" wasn't going to work for my mental health.
I had to ask myself, what is more "moral", relying on the government for all my needs? Or doing what I could to survive and remain independent? Exotic dancing is not illegal and I do everything above the belt.
So, I could hold onto my "morals" and continue to bleed the government and my parents dry...Or, I could compromise myself slightly and learn to fight for my survival.
What is a true feminist?
A real feminist is a survivor. Someone who can look themselves in the mirror and say "I am her eon my own steam".
Absolutely. I question feminists who claim to be pro-choice and yet are anti-sexwork. I'll start with, "A woman should be able to control her own body, right? Sooo..." and stare meaningfully.
Depends on which men, which women, and which club. The owners of all 9 clubs I have worked in were men, and made more than any of the women (except maybe one club that closed because the guy was a fucking idiot lol). I make about the same or a little more than most of the women in my present club, but the really hot hustlers make more than I do, yes--which is fine with me of course. I made less than the average dancer in the whorehouse club, but they were almost all sucking dick for 20$ a song or less, so that wouldn't count I don't think.
And I wouldn't use that as the sole criteria for saying whether or not a stripper can be a feminist. Money is very important, but not everything when it comes to achieving political and social equality.
I am more impressed with you every post I read it seems...
BringOnTheMen is exactly right and articulated that way better than I could have.
I think that it depends on the girl, as well. There are girls who are super driven (and I know of a lot on the site) and there are girls who use stripping to fund their drug problems. Are some more feminist than others? I'm torn about that.
as someone who believes that she is a feminist, it is really hard for me to have to put up with women who are very vocal in the ~feminist community~ saying that a woman can do whatever she pleases but oh how could she possibly be a stripper! Or when I was posting in my blog about how I think it's stupid when girls do certain things (cut major deals, do extras, don't work hard) they post entries in their blogs saying that they don't have any problems with strippers but have problems with me due to my criticisms of other girls. Well, if I was a real estate agent I would feel the same way about other agents fucking around on the job or cutting deals or whatever. It's a criticism of my co-workers, not strippers in general.
I think that a lot of it is jealousy. A lot of women don't have the freedom that we do, don't make the cash that we do, aren't as driven as us. And it's easy to hate on us and call us "unfeminist" or say other anti-woman / anti-feminist things by spouting rhetoric about how we are the ones perpetuating the shitty occurances in the sex work industry instead of placing the blame where it belongs. With men who have money who exploit women without it.
BringOnTheMen, I can see what you're saying. We all have those days. But a lot of that "degradation", in my personal opinion, comes from allowing them to degrade us in our minds.
I don't feel degraded when a dude grabs my ass. I would feel degraded if, rather than doing what I always do and being very stern or getting him kicked out, I giggle and tell him no, and then he does it again. I don't feel degraded when a guy tries to waste my time ("Have a drink first"). I feel degraded when I realized I was had, but ignored all my stripper senses because I was desperate to meet my goals early. I don't feel degraded when an annoying club regular makes kissy noises and says gross things to me. I feel degraded when I give in and dance for him, thinking it'll be different this time, and it's just as unpleasant and annoying as the last time.
All of the above things used to make me feel degraded until I realized they were things I could look at differently and realized that it wasn't the situation itself but my ignoring my instinct or going against my usual instinct that made me feel like I was ALLOWING them to degrade me. Not saying it is or SHOULD be that way for anyone, but that was what helped me a lot on those really awful nights where you want to punch the city in the face.
According to my ex fiance this industry has turned me into a "feminist c*nt" and "putting ideas in my head" so yes I suppose it is.
I'm not trying to be contentious but just because you don't feel degraded doesn't mean that you aren't being degraded. The problem with degradation and saying it doesn't exist because you "don't let yourself feel it" is that degradation isn't just an individual thing. I wouldn't really care if guys were total assholes in the club and holy fuck whatever. It's that they think that it's okay to treat us like that regardless of the fact that we are or aren't strippers.
I will say though that I adopted the same attitude as you and find it a lot easier to work. When you don't let things get to you, you can go a lot longer without wanting to give up and go home or hit the next guy in the face. It is a very hard thing to learn though :(
^^Oh I don't think you're being contentious at all. I simply wasn't very clear with my point. Yes, degradation still exists in terms of other people's motivations and actions. We just don't have to FEEL degraded or let it get to us like that. It's definitely easier to have a good night despite a couple idiots when you can figure out how not to let it get to you.
Even better when you have the sort of night where you're on a fucking roll, someone tries to be rude or degrading, and you have a snappy enough comeback where they find you later and apologize. It's nice when you can make someone realize they were being totally out of line and that it's NOT acceptable, whatever their friends or whatever seem to think about strippers or women. Some guys get carried away wanting to impress their friends, and once in a while they can be chastised in a way that they realize it's unattractive, unnecessary, rude, and oppressive.
It's rare, but it happens, and I think that's why I've been able to maintain my "I won't let them make me feel degraded" attitude for so long.
So you're right, the degradation is still HAPPENING, but we don't have to let ourselves feel down about someone else's pathetic attempt to make themselves feel superior to us.
no, I hear you completely. Learning what you're talking about is one of the best things that I ever did for myself. Learning to just let go and not let the assholes get to me... when I'm having a bad night and start to tell them off, I just go home. There's no coming back from there.
I don't think that you've limited your career choices by stripping at 19. You're in San Francisco, no? I'm sure you have things mapped out already, but if you take classes for two years at a CC and do really well, it will be easy for you to transfer to a UC (easier than getting in the normal way). Then you finish your last two years at said UC and walk away with a prestigious degree. Judging by your posts on here, you're totally capable of that.
I went to a UC and knew people who worked or floated around after high school, then went to a CC and transferred to a UC. They were in their mid-twenties instead of their early twenties when they graduated, but that barely matters. They certainly had way more drive and maturity than the average student who went straight from high school to college and spent the first couple of years in a drunken haze. Sometimes, I wish I had gone that route.
As for the original question: Of course you can be a feminist stripper. I don't think stripping itself is a feminist action, though. But I'm pretty sure that most feminists do things regularly that don't square with their ideals. That's what we gotta do, unless we're rich and have an emotional hide of steel.
I think you can be both but the problem is too many women who strip still fall into stereotypical views. So many strippers I've known used it until they got a man but refused to learn other skills. What if they didn't find a man or what if he abandoned her? I've seen these scenarios and nothing is sadder than a stripper who was stripping later than she should have.
Then there are the strippers who have awful boyfriends. The feminist view is you can be happy without a boyfriend but too many strippers refuse to so they accept things like abuse or cheating. How many times have we seen women here talking about these men or fine with supporting a lazy boyfriend? Or how about the women with these losers who complain because they are supporting them yet coming home to cook and clean because these lazy losers refuse to?
Can stripping be degrading? Sure but so can other jobs. Nothing is more degrading than finding out a male coworker makes more than you for no reason than being male. Or finding out that you work for an employer who will never promote you being a woman.
For me, feminism is the ability to choose and being treated on an equal level with anyone else, whether that's being a stripper, being with a man, or being a stay at home mom or dad.
So I chose to be a stripper, and am considered by many a feminist. So I'd have to say being a stripper should not be contradictory to being a feminist. Most degradation comes from men being assholes, and men are assholes in most Jobs, whether that's stocking groceries, teaching history, or a corporate job or stripping. And the same goes for a lot of women. We can be the worst to one another, catty and judgemental and degrading.
Men may be using us for our bodies as strippers, but we also use them for their money. It goes two ways.
Very well said, BringOnTheMen. I agree completely. I also worry about this choice limiting my future in some way, although I am hoping no one will be able to find out I danced as long as I don't work anywhere where a license is required or get in any legal trouble. I'm curious as to why you are sure it has limited your career choices. Are you concerned that people will find out in the future and that will limit your opportunities? Or do you feel this is true for another reason?
As for the OP's question, I think it is entirely possible to be a feminist and work in the sex industry. I believe that as long as it is not a coerced choice, being able to do what you want with you life and your body is part of the definition of feminism.
Yes. A thousand times, yes. I recommended these on another thread, but they're exactly what you want to be reading if this topic interests you.
First: Nadine Strossen. Defending Pornography.
Next: Wendy McElroy. XXX: A Woman's Right to Pornography.
It's arguable, in fact, that prostitutes were some of the first 'feminists'. That's a long discussion, though. ;)
Damn straight.