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The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
This thread is for ideas about making MFC change and stop the free public shows that are destroying our livelihood in so many ways.
Help come up with ideas, and report on successes and failures. Hopefully it can become a place to send the women who care, and new women who want to know about this movement. If we can make this happen, we should do it, and since we have ALL the power in camming, we need to rock this.
So...Tell us...How do we do it?
I'll go first in the next message.
B
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Ok. So first things first.
We NEED to make all the girls on MFC aware that there IS a "crusade". That we believe that things can better and why. The number 1 best way to do this is MFC Mail. I believe that if all of you who do MFC send 10 MFC mail every time you log in or go mess with your profile of whatever, that would go a LONG way to making this happen.
I can also teach those who are willing how to grab the names of every girl online when you go there, in one fell swoop, with a simple cut and paste, and then you can mail EVERY girl online in like 10 minutes...
Second most recognizable way to do this is Twitter. We can have our own hashtag, say #MFCRuleAware or something...and we all use it and tweet to it a few times a day.
A Yahoo Group and a Facebook Group....More attention to the petition....Make a Blog...Link to others who also make a Blog.
This is not that hard and it CAN be done, but you need to actually play to win.
What else can we do to make this change? Making customers aware would help...any ideas there?
B
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Say u guys do all that...I can tell u right now that the top girls aren't going to change what they are doing when they are making minimum of $30,000 a month. So what i'm wondering is...if u girls do this, don't you think it's going to run all the guys more in the direction of the top girls that AREN'T changing what they do? SO now what has that accomplished?? Even more money for the top girls and even less money for u guys. Not trying to offend anyone..i'm just thinking that that might be a possibility. =)
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shaebabii
Say u guys do all that...I can tell u right now that the top girls aren't going to change what they are doing when they are making minimum of $30,000 a month. So what i'm wondering is...if u girls do this, don't you think it's going to run all the guys more in the direction of the top girls that AREN'T changing what they do? SO now what has that accomplished?? Even more money for the top girls and even less money for u guys. Not trying to offend anyone..i'm just thinking that that might be a possibility. =)
No, because the top girls are all... well... very much alike. Variety is the flavor of life.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
^^im sorry i definitely disagree with that completely. EVERYONE on mfc do similar things...BUT like aspenrae, devonalexis, jalyn all do different things. So therefore top girls have variety that the guys would want.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
I dont get why everyone is focusing on the "TOP GIRLS" i personally think its the low girls thats the problem ....that have topics like 20 tokens fist ass....10 tokens fist pussy....
the Top girls can keep doing what they are doing
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shaebabii
^^im sorry i definitely disagree with that completely. EVERYONE on mfc do similar things...BUT like aspenrae, devonalexis, jalyn all do different things. So therefore top girls have variety that the guys would want.
Sure.. they *do* different things.. but.. most of them are white, young, bubbly girls.. with maybe one or two exceptions of an older woman or someone considered to be 'alt'.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shaebabii
Say u guys do all that...I can tell u right now that the top girls aren't going to change what they are doing when they are making minimum of $30,000 a month. So what i'm wondering is...if u girls do this, don't you think it's going to run all the guys more in the direction of the top girls that AREN'T changing what they do? SO now what has that accomplished?? Even more money for the top girls and even less money for u guys. Not trying to offend anyone..i'm just thinking that that might be a possibility. =)
Actually my thought was in the other direction. The girls on the bottom row that will do anything and I mean anything for a few tokens.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
I mean does anyone know why "bb" is so heavily used? It's because these guys have being going to room where it's super cheap to please and these girls don't speak English very well. So bb is easy. Look at some of the guys that go to your room and most will tell you that they go to some of the lower camscore rooms because those girls say "i love you" " bb" and practically live on cam. I mean sleeping, eating pee and poo. They will do anything for 10 tokens so this is where many go. There are those guys that find their slave labor lifeslyle repulsive and refuse to go down there but many others don't even care.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MzStar
I dont get why everyone is focusing on the "TOP GIRLS" i personally think its the low girls thats the problem ....that have topics like 20 tokens fist ass....10 tokens fist pussy....
the Top girls can keep doing what they are doing
well, the top girls break the rules just like the lower girls do. I've literally seen a top 10 model fuck her ass until it BLED a few weeks ago. :-X
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
They break the rules at all levels, but if we do the things I outlined above and got say even 200 or 300 girls who are NOT doing the free shows and are e-mailing daily to those who do and making sure all girls on there know, and we ALSO make sure AdminLeo knows, well, I think it might just change..
$12.50 per hour x 4 mods, 24 hours a day....is $1200, and if they even worked 5 days like that, and you could do, 1st violation -500 to camscore and disqualified from Miss MyFreeCams for the month, 2nd violation 3 day suspension, 3rd violation, Camscore reset to 1000 (or ZERO if lower than 1000) and 5 days suspended ...It would end free shows once and for all in 5 days...
I am actually thinking we could bombard Leo with these ideas and see what he says.
B
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BlankStare
Sure.. they *do* different things.. but.. most of them are white, young, bubbly girls.. with maybe one or two exceptions of an older woman or someone considered to be 'alt'.
ditto. I don't see many running to the top models for the frees shows. Not to mention, most of them aren't on all hours of the day. in fact, I think most of them are on at generally the same time.
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Originally Posted by
cherryblossomsinspring
Actually my thought was in the other direction. The girls on the bottom row that will do anything and I mean anything for a few tokens.
I'm going to coyly ask around in my room, but in my head I'm thinking that these girls don't really attract to many men anyways. Have you ever started at the bottom of the last page and skipped backwards through the models? Most are being made fun of by 80% of the men in the room and making no money.
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Originally Posted by
ashiepants
well, the top girls break the rules just like the lower girls do. I've literally seen a top 10 model fuck her ass until it BLED a few weeks ago. :-X
Gross, are you being serious? :ill: I seldom watch the top model's, so I have no idea what they are in to, but really?! That seems almost as desperate as doing pee/poo shows... IMO
Back on topic--is there a way to delete sent MFC mail? I haven't yet figured out the options in there.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
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Originally Posted by
AF camgirl
Back on topic--is there a way to delete sent MFC mail? I haven't yet figured out the options in there.
I cant find a delete ALL option either.
I can delete one by one...
pain in the butt..
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Fridays: I really want to see your thing catch on. I think it is a great first step to the Bigger move of actual rule change. But we NEED to let as many girls know as possible.
B
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Its called MYFREECAMS for a reason! The girls who are doing free shows shouldn't stop if they don't want to! MFC just needs to rewrite the rules and add a 18+ to enter entrance page (or even make a partychat mode!). MFC wants the free shows to continue, they aren't going to abolish it.
I would much rather be doing 1-3 shows a night, and make around 700 dollars than have to deal with bullshit premiums bossing me around in private.
I'm not sorry I do public shows either. I do what is in my COMFORT level. If you can't keep up on MFC then get out, and join a site that is more strict. Or are you going to roll with the punches and be very successful for years to come with an army of regulars? or are you going wash away to the bottom?
Every model is different, different rules, different comfort levels, and I've seen VERY successful camgirls that don't do anything bad in public, and its not affecting their business at all! It is not the public show girl's fault that you don't have what it takes to stay popular at MFC. There have been times when I go weeks or months without public shows and it doesn't affect my at all money wise I just had to work a bit harder. BUT that is not what I prefer! I like knowing that I am the main stage and I have an audience (it gets me more riled up & a better performance). It's called personal preference and a petition is not going to do anything but take away time that you could be using to captivate your camming audience or work on your show!
Quit focusing so much on what others are doing and start focusing on what you are doing! How are you going to improve your show to gain more regulars? to make more money?
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
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Originally Posted by
LoverCam
I've seen VERY successful camgirls that don't do anything bad in public, and its not affecting their business at all!
This. I don't get naked in public, and I make a lot. I have lots of regulars and constant privates...what other people are doing doesn't affect me or my earnings.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
1. Giving away the main product in any business to a MAJORITY of the potential customer pool available, is a VERY BAD IDEA and will destroy ANY industry you do it in. Period. Because guys will come from other camsites as well and come to MFC to be freeloaders. It's the full monty, available 24/7 FREE, and there is no need to pay for it, since a few guys will pay the tokens to get the show for the HUGE freeloading audience. Terrible business and very anti-camming.
Every business is subject to supply and demand. There is a finite (not endless) supply of cam models, and a finite (not endless, not infinite) demand from the finite number of customers. So, the way camming worked for years before MFC was that you had to register and have a credit card just to SEE a model, and they were expressly forbidden from any nudity. I worked then. We made bank like you cannot even imagine today. because any man who wanted to interact with a girl at ALL, had to pay.
It got much looser in between, and the camsite deal became one where there was free chat on some sites, but NOTHING was allowed to be shown, even boobs. And the money was still incredible.
Then came MFC, and they had rules that allowed basic nudity in free chat, and it changed the game, but the money was still incredible because men don't generally ALL get off from boob flashes and stuff...that stuff is promotion of the Group and the Privates. So everything was great.
Then the rules started getting broken more and more and in more and more sites the exclusive nature of US, our sexy bodies and sexy pink bits and such, got less and less exclusive and valuable, mostly because MFC had made such a big splash. And MFC led that charge.
And then the FREE SHOWS started...and you can go back and look in the archives here. The complaints of money dropping grew in DIRECT proportion to those free shows. It was clear and obvious that having hundreds and often thousands of men get a show for free, made them not want to pay, and made it so ALL of them had to pay LESS overall to get the "goodies" for free.
2. You signed and gave your word that you would follow the written rules of MFC. As stated and again (Under "Rules for Models"). You promised. And MFC also promised back that an environment will exist free of "sexually-explicit conduct" which includes (in writing) "using sex toys, genital penetration of any kind, masturbation, using the camera to "zoom" into genitalia, and other things of this sort." as well as (from the model page) "NO masturbation, penetration, using sexual toys or devices, cunnilingus, or other sexually explicit activity. ".
So, where is that ambiguous? Where is the confusion? You gave your word, and signed it. What is your word worth? ANYTHING?!
3. MFC is known to be poorly protected against intrusion from minors, and so we all know they sneak in. And you are doing shows in an area pretty much completely unprotected from minors being present. It's kind of like doing a masturbation show on the back of a car in the parking lot of the strip club. You are on the "Strip Club's premises" but in an area where there has been NO age check and any age person can just wander by.
If you think that is morally and ethically acceptable, and healthy and a good way to run the ship...so be it. MANY do not. If you think that is a smart way for us to treat MFC, so that the first legal beagle who wants to earn his stripes comes in and either busts the lady or shuts down MFC, then fine.
It has been claimed there is no LAW against it. However I have pointed out that every state has a law against allowing minors to view pornography. And State's Attorneys have latitude and could bust you. And maybe the folks who say there is no law are right, maybe you'd get off because it violates free speech, but only after they RUINED your anonymity and smeared your name.
Hardcore with no real protection from minors is a pretty bad idea. No matter what the law says.
4. Why would you think giving your product away for free to hundreds, if not thousands of men, would be the BEST way to make money? Why would you think that de-valuing your body so horrendously, would be the best overall model for creating wealth? Why would you not think that forcing men to PAY to see the goodies is a really good idea?
So now excuse me please if I am tad bit "cranky" in my response to you, since this has been said and posted here in different words and ways several (many) times. And nothing you say below really refutes ANY of it with facts or logic or reality.
It seems your argument boils down to the incredibly selfish and spoiled idea of; "I should be able to do what I want and I don't care about rules and my word is meaningless and so is MFCs and that's fine, and you should mind your own business and let us destroy camming!"
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Originally Posted by
LoverCam
Its called MYFREECAMS for a reason!
Yes. It is. It is called my FREE Cams because one doesn't have to register or pay anything to see a camgirl and chat with her. Not because of your damn full sex insertion shows in FREE chat.
It was called MyFreeCams when they DID follow the rules for the first almost 2 years. So that is obviously what is meant.
So at least get it right. You're argument is just incorrect on so many levels. There are rules. Those rules are written into a signed contract, and therefor you gave your WORD that there would be NO INSERTION, NO MASTURBATION, NO CLOSE UP VAG, NO GIRL-GIRL HARDCORE, NO TOYS. You agreed to that. Girls who come there have an right to expect those WRITTEN RULES be followed.
The rules used to be enforced on a sporadic basis and the site was cleaner and a LOT more money flowed. You can argue all you want but the majority of girls who work there will tell you that money has gotten harder to come by because of FREE SHOWS.
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The girls who are doing free shows shouldn't stop if they don't want to! MFC just needs to rewrite the rules and add a 18+ to enter entrance page (or even make a partychat mode!). MFC wants the free shows to continue, they aren't going to abolish it.
I think MFC believes the majority of models want the free shows, and it's just cheaper not to have mods who fine girls and give out suspensions. It is actually in MFCs best interest to END free shows. Because that would mean more men HAVING to spend money to see a SHOW.
Also, what MFC should do, is up for debate right here. But right NOW, there are rules in place and YOU break them if you do these shows. Period. You break the rules and you break your contracted signed word. And you destroy the promised environment that is free of these rule breaking shows. That is the REALITY now. And until MFC officially changes the rules, it will be the REALITY.
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I would much rather be doing 1-3 shows a night, and make around 700 dollars than have to deal with bullshit premiums bossing me around in private.
Listen, if you don't read what is written, and really think about it...It isn't my problem, it's yours. The GROUP show was designed for EXACTLY what you're talking about. There is absolutely NO NEED and no BUSINESS SENSE and no logical reason that ANY business-person or Independent contractor should ever give away their best product for free. And when dozens of independent contractors do so, it threatens to destroy the entire camming industry. And at the least lowers the supply and demand to dangerous levels and drops the income of everyone involved.
3 shows a night in group, with 20-50 men in group would make you MUCH more money. And it could happen if the THOUSANDS of customers who are getting off for free were FORCED to spend the money.
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I'm not sorry I do public shows either. I do what is in my COMFORT level.
If you do insertion, masturbation, girl-girl hardcore, close-up genitals or toys, you are breaking the rules and are rude to every other girl on the site, and do not understand that you are even hurting yourself because it is just BAD BUSINESS to give away your most prized product.
We should not have to support that you are too lazy to follow the rules and make money like MANY MANY Other girls do.
The actual truth of the matter is, that in the end, while I won't judge anyone, it is incredibly selfish in a way which is short-term foolish because of long-term disaster. This will kill camming just like tube sites destroyed the profit margins of main-stream porn. Give away the product free, and no-one wants to pay.
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If you can't keep up on MFC then get out, and join a site that is more strict. Or are you going to roll with the punches and be very successful for years to come with an army of regulars? or are you going wash away to the bottom?
The girls who do free shows make sure ALL camgirls have a MUCH higher chance of washing out to the bottom. Because they lower the entire camming dollar. They lower the number of available customers, they lower the number of NEW customers, they raise the bar for expectation from customers (they want MUCH more now for much less money), and they lower the image of being WORTH the money.
They also do this for every camsite everywhere, even if they only exist on MFC. And what proves this is the FACT that SM was VERY successful and MFC came along and the customers left to go get FREE shows, and now SM has added Tipping and started ignoring their rules which they used to be VERY strict about.
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Every model is different, different rules, different comfort levels, and I've seen VERY successful camgirls that don't do anything bad in public, and its not affecting their business at all!
No different rules. ONE SET OF RULES. No Insertion, No Masturbation, No Close-up Genitals, No Hardcore in Free chat. It is specifically stated in 2 places on MFC and in your contract you agree to THOSE rules. You signed it and gave your word. MFC contracted that girls would have an environment with NONE of those things happening in FREE Chat, and the girls who don;t do them have an ABSOLUTE right to demand the rules be followed. Period.
Want to get naked? That's FINE. Want to flash for tips? Fine. Want to do a shower show? Fine! Want to do a body painting show? Fine! Want to do a naked workout show? Fine! ALL these things are fine...the rules say so.
Also, you are incredibly naive if you think that thousands and thousands of potential customers per day getting off for FREE, and not dropping one DIME of tip, is a good thing for camming, and "its not affecting their business at all!"...If you cannot see that several thousand men get to orgasm for free for the shows that break the rules, and those men will NEVER spend a dime because you devalued the product and made them expect to see insertion, masturbation, hardcore, close-up and toys for FREE...How is that smart?
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It is not the public show girl's fault that you don't have what it takes to stay popular at MFC.
Yes, it is, in many ways. When guys had to pay for everything, it was EASY to be popular, and most girls did incredibly well. Now, not so much, since thousands of potential customers are being siphoned away. And that is what this is about, not the petty popularity, but the overall picture of available customers, following a set of rules that keeps camming viable and keeps our product VALUABLE is smart. More men will spend MORE Money if the free shows stop and they HAVE to spend money to see a show. You cannot argue with that. If men MUST pay to see orgasms and insertion and stuff, they will pay. If it is free, they will take it for free, it is basic human nature.
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There have been times when I go weeks or months without public shows and it doesn't affect my at all money wise I just had to work a bit harder.
Now add: And I don't care about anyone else making money, I don't care about camming itself, and I'm too lazy to make my guys do groups where I can TRIPLE my MONEY.
Do you see how incredibly selfish this attitude is?
Because no matter how you slice it and try to make it a Freedom Issue, it isn't one. Because Freedom is defined by being able to do whatever one chooses so long as it doesn't infringe on and hurt others. This DOES. And you have no right to hurt others.
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Quit focusing so much on what others are doing and start focusing on what you are doing! How are you going to improve your show to gain more regulars? to make more money?
I am going to get thousands more customers for the models I work with, by stopping free shows and bringing all those guys back into being customers instead of freeloaders who get off in your room for free. I think that is a worthy use of my time.
Let's say this...if you sold cars...and went to work daily and busted your ass and sold those cars, and Bob, another salesman started giving cars away every day, and your sales obviously dropped and the money for EVERYONE got less, would you say "Worry about myself and how to better sell cars."!? Or would you cry foul because Bob was doing something which hurt everyone.
Maybe you'd quit, and go work at the other dealer across town, and what happens when they say, "Well, we gotta give away cars too, because that is what the other guys is doing." And your business AGAIN drops majorly. When do you say, hey the contract we all signed said we can't GIVE AWAY CARS. So Stop giving away CARS! So we can all make money!
And how would respond when the person who is ruining your business and costing you a LOT of money says "Hey worry about yourself and what you're doing, not what I am doing!"
Yah, I'm sure you'd take that advice.
B
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Ok, so the last post is HUGE. I get that. But it gets to the heart of this debate and I really want to see someone reply with FACTS that refute the argument I put forth. So much on this board is emotional and not factual. But I see it that the main ideas in this last post cover things pretty damn well.
Free shows hurt everyone, if you disagree, read the last post and tell me where I am WRONG and Why? With FACTS.
B
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
Ok, so the last post is HUGE.
jeez, Bamb!! that is not huge that is OMFG!!! huge lol:D
Im scared to start reading it...... im afraid Ill be stuck in front of my pc for 2 weeks! :O
xox
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Bamb you said it perfectly. Camming is like any other industry. I used to be a Zumba instructor, giving a quality service at a decent rate. Until a girl at a studio down the road starting do free classes. It didn't even matter that my class was better(which it was, plus she wasn't licensed...) and I lost my customers and lost that gig because we couldn't compete. The same thing is happening with camming. I'm not on MFC but I still get shit from guys who've been there, begging for free shit. So IT IS bleeding over to other sites, and it needs to stop.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bambalina
I really want to see someone reply with FACTS that refute the argument I put forth. So much on this board is emotional and not factual. But I see it that the main ideas in this last post cover things pretty damn well.
This sounds like what White Knights say all day long - aka, you all are too emotional (it IS people's livelihoods so makes sense), I have the facts, readmy facts even though the majority of it does not fit what the definition of a fact/empirical evidence is, agree with me or you're too emotional
Fridays's idea of what to do makes sense - and its a live post still on the main first page of this forum. So.... that's one response and its one that many seem to support. You should give her credit since its one many already committed to without controversy? Why the new post? Need for accolades?
I'm disappointed White Knight Syndrome seems to not be limited to one demographic
Since this appears to be the next incarnation of the last thread about this very same issue where your arguments and particularly your approach were taken apart by many - I suspect you're creating a new one to bury the ones posed to you already?
You started this post saying MFC is destroying your livelihood (you said 'our', implicating yourself as a cam performer) - if that is a fact, and fact is king - break it down for us: how is MFC destroying your own money asides from creating competition for your new cam site that you hope to neutralize to invite MFC-expats to generate income for your site? What is your own personal investment in this crusade?
This incessant MFC bashing is overwhelming this board. Is it possible to contain it to the threads already dedicated to the topic insteading of making multiple offshoots of the same thing?
There is no right or wrong answer, there are no facts or fiction, so the circular rabid debating will remain at a standstill. Some people love MFC at its current model, some people hate MFC but feel stuck since its their primary source of income and want to change it slowly but surely, some people want MFC to be on CNN right now and force it to at least create a splash page, some people don't work the site because they know they'd fail (:raises hand: ), and some people aren't even cam models and can't stop talking about how much they hate it and want cam models to stop working it
Ill start scrolling to avoid it (like I shouldve always done, duh, sorry) - but just wanted to say it
:kanye shrug:
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
ty roast couldn't have said it better myself.fridays' thread out of these other pointless MFC threads is the only one thts worth thinkin bout,no i take tht back m not even thinkin bout it m goin to do exactly wat she's askin!!! its motivatin, in gud taste n shes not attackin anyone or makin lots of threads to send the SAME message across.i said this in my other post n m goin to say it again,"use the existin MFC threads.there's really no need 4 new ones.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
Why not just go to the AVN, in Vegas, next year and talk to him, directly? He's just standing at the MFC booth, making small talk, anyway.
+1 on being painfully bored of these recent "Let's Bash/Boycott 'XYZ.com'" threads. Seriously, all I can smell is just one more shepherd trying to lead the flock to different feeding grounds. There's nothing being said that will fundamentally change online Adult Entertainment. Bambalina, I think you're smart and while you do think somewhat analytically, its only as far as you're trying to further your own projects or ambitions. Why not just build your own site and let us evaluate it on its own merit, rather than focus so much time and energy trying to rally around this false sense of reactionary anger? Just bring what you have to the table.
I'm not one to throw myself into a meaningless "crusade", myself. I'm in this business as a mercenary and I work with what works. Prove to me that you can hold it down better than MFC or SM or whatever and I'll partner up. Anything else (petitioning, reporting, blahblahblah) is just getting in the way of my bottom line.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
I honestly don't know what put the bug up your ass about me, and I'm not sure I care. But it is really ugly that it makes you so un-balanced in your replies to me. That's all I'll say about that. Since I already answered you in the other thread.
Ok, gonna throw out the nastiness and the rhetoric, and just answer the real stuff...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
roast
readmy facts even though the majority of it does not fit what the definition of a fact/empirical evidence is, agree with me or you're too emotional
Supply and Demand is a FACT.
Giving away product for FREE en MASSE being bad for business, is a FACT.
MFC being poorly protected against minors is a FACT.
The contract stating you will follow the Rules. FACT
You giving your word when you sign a contract. FACT
The actual VERBIAGE of the RULES. FACT.
Thousands of potential customers jerkin' it to shows in free chat and paying NOTHING. FACT.
So show me how I don't argue with FACTS.
"You should mind your own business and let girls do what they want!" is NOT FACT. It is not LOGIC. It is not wise business. It is not anything but a meaningless rant.
"MFC will never change, so why try?" is an OPINION and not even close to a fact.
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Fridays's idea of what to do makes sense - and its a live post still on the main first page of this forum. So.... that's one response and its one that many seem to support. You should give her credit since its one many already committed to without controversy?
I think Friday's idea is fucking AWESOME! I have said as much. I think Fridays is AWESOME! I have said as much. We don;t completely agree, but she is definitely doing something and she rocks.
However, if she and the 20-30 girls who MFC on HERE all do this, it will still fall flat. There needs to be many many many more women to join this if we're going to change anything.
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Why the new post? Need for accolades?
Why the personal attack, need for ego boost?
This new thread was for a few reasons. First and foremost, because the old one was cluttered and getting much too long. Secondly because this is a different subject. This is NOT Fridays crusade, and it is NOT about the petition, it is about other ideas to assist Fridays, and I did not want to hijack her thread. It is a thread asking for ideas, as opposed to the other train-wreck thread which was just me announcing I had created a petition and why, and turned into THAT mess. So I created this one, probably in absolute futility, hoping to actually get ideas and feedback on some of mine.
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I'm disappointed White Knight Syndrome seems to not be limited to one demographic
This is just insulting and for little reason. I am trying to be helpful and it is VERY easy to just call anyone trying to help any situation a "White Knight". Especially since, in my opinion, this board seems fairly split on this issue. Even some of the people who DO the shows are talking about understanding the wrongness and the bad business of it. So I resent being called a White Knight. I have a right to these ideas and just because you took a dislike for me when I attacked some of your icons way back when, is no excuse for useless rhetorical bullshit.
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where your arguments and particularly your approach were taken apart by many
And I'd like to see you name these MANY you speak of??? More people agreed with me than disagreed. I had a nice and civilized debate with Fridays, Ashie, and a couple others. N-n-J were rabid assholes taking the thread off-topic again and again, and being ridiculous, and you posted once in there. And of course never replied because your entire premise was fucking skewed. Otherwise, I think it was quite successful, and since I have FAR more signatures on the petition than you can name the MANY who "took me apart", I think your just choking on your bittercakes.
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how is MFC destroying your own money asides from creating competition for your new cam site that you hope to neutralize to invite MFC-expats to generate income for your site? What is your own personal investment in this crusade?
I promote for a living. I don't own a website which charges or receives money at this point in time. Yes I intent to open a few in the future, but none that *I* will own are intended to e direct competitors of MFC.
The Collective site will be a direct Competitor of MFC, but that will probably take quite a while before MFC even feels it as more than a fly buzzing around and annoying it. I do not own any more of the Collective Site than ANY OTHER MEMBER. I actually at this point am a 1% owner. So if you think THAT is what this about, you just show how ridiculous you are, and how you will reach pretty far to find an attack.
Anyway. I promote camgirls for a living. I make websites, get them 1000+ GOOD twitter followers, Get the traffic, help them sell panties and clips and pics and so on, and truly drive big traffic to their camming endeavors. That is what I do for my SOLE living right now (Well, almost anyway...I do some cam shows and some panty sales and some other personal stuff with my regulars who are very sweet and kind to a fat ol' lady like me), and at this moment 3 (THREE) of the girls I promote are on MFC. Therefor, in a sense, I have more to gain or lose from MFCs policies than any single woman on there. My living comes from MFC as much as any girl who directly works there. I signed the contract. I am responsible to these women to do the very best I can for them in raising their income to new heights. So I am VERY invested in this fight.
One of the girls I promote cannot do SM due to past indiscretions there, and so her sole means of support is MFC and AW. For her this is very serious. She is counting on me to make a difference if I can. I told her (she is reading this now) that I was pretty sure it was a fight we can;t fully win, but we might be able to make a difference.
So right now Fridays is our HERO! She is making a difference! Yay for her!
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This incessant MFC bashing is overwhelming this board. Is it possible to contain it to the threads already dedicated to the topic insteading of making multiple offshoots of the same thing?
No. It is not. I have right to post her about what I want. How does it overwhelm this board? How is it HARD for you to ignore and just skip? How am I hard to ignore...there's a lil button, and I invite all of those who think I am full of shit to PLEASE push that button today...Now even! IGNORE me, and Ignore the (what?) 3 threads I am contributing to on this subject...goddamn! I am OVERWHELMING the board with my MFC bashing!!! Ahhhh!!! Run for the hills!! That wacked out Bambalina she created 3 WHOLE threads!!!! Help!!!!
Chicken Little much?
And overall, I don't bash MFC. I never tell anyone not to work there, or to boycott, or to do anything but spread the word that the rules should be followed. How is that BASHING?
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There is no right or wrong answer, there are no facts or fiction,
I'm sure you'd love folks to think that is true. But I have shown provable facts of business and logic that say you're wrong. So people can whine and say it isn't so all they want, but the truth is that when you give away your product to thousands on potential customers per day, it will lead to a serious drop in the overall spedning pool of your target audience. Period. Fact. You cannot even attempt to debate it, so you go to this ad hominum nastiness and casting negative aspersions... Whatever.
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and some people aren't even cam models and can't stop talking about how much they hate it and want cam models to stop working it
See, I see this as a swipe at me, and it is a lie. COMPLETELY False, and you've been told in a past response that it is false. I do not tell models NOT to work there, and while I do not PERFORM on MFC, I have an account, and I work there daily, and I make as much as many of the women in here talking, in TOKENS from MFC. I manage 3 girls on there and get residuals from a few others who I helped get MUCH higher up the list.
So, I directly get paid by MFC. Your argument is flat and filled with incorrectness at best and outright lies at worst, since I already told you I work directly on MFC. Now you've been told twice. So keep saying it.
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Ill start scrolling to avoid it (like I shouldve always done, duh, sorry) - but just wanted to say it
PLEASE. Just ignore me if you feel that way. I invite that and welcome it.
Otherwise, provide facts and reality and not rhetorical arguments, untruths, and ad hominum attacks.
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Re: The MFC "crusade" - How do we do it? "Make them Change" that is...
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Originally Posted by
vivianbear
Why not just go to the AVN, in Vegas, next year and talk to him, directly? He's just standing at the MFC booth, making small talk, anyway.
Well, I just may do that. But I don't want to wait until AVN, and I think if I go talk to him and 50 other girls do too, and it's after he has received 2000 pieces of mail, it MAY have more impact Viv. Don't you?
I mean, are you saying that raising awareness of something I believe in is WRONG? That I should not be allowed to create buzz about this thing I care about?
Why?
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+1 on being painfully bored of these recent "Let's Bash/Boycott 'XYZ.com'" threads.
I have never asked in any of these threads for a boycott of MFC. I suggested women boycott SM about 8 or 9 months ago...is that "recent"? Really?
I do not believe that to ask women to raise awareness and do whatever is possible to improve working conditions, is bashing. I don;t think any of these women should QUIT MFC or even that MFC is a BAD place. The women who work with me work there (well all but two of them and that was THEIR choice...they, like roast feel they could NEVER succeed there, even though I have told them otherwise) and I actually think that MFC is the "best of a bad lot"..."lesser of evils" and all that.
But I also feel that the POLICY on interpreting and enforcing rules there is seriously problematic to the whole of camming.
Are you saying you truly disagree? And if so, on what grounds? And how is disagreeing with someone now considered BASHING? I do not believe that, as an American, which I am (I understand some of you do not have that..privilege/handicap :) ) I feel the need to air my grievances as my Constitution says I should, and a need to right the wrongs I see, and fix this industry if I can...Do i think I will single-handedly make any difference...not really...but I have met some marvelous and powerful and intense women on here (Fridays being one of them) who I believe CAN make MFC do what they want, because they realize that women OWN camming.
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Seriously, all I can smell is just one more shepherd trying to lead the flock to different feeding grounds.
I promise, that is not what I am trying to do. Believe me or not. I am trying to make a difference, nothing more or less. just trying to see if a wrong can be righted before it is too late.
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There's nothing being said that will fundamentally change online Adult Entertainment.
We disagree there. online Adult Entertainment is fundamentally changing right NOW as we type these messages. So everything we do, say, perform, etc. WILL make a huge difference. It's like the pebble in the pond...or the Butterfly Affect.
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Bambalina... trying to further your own projects or ambitions...focus so much time and energy trying to rally around this false sense of reactionary anger?
Because my livelihood is at stake here, and I believe ALL of camming is at stake here, and I think you wound me with your sentiment...because overall, I have a right to do this and I will. And it isn't about my projects since they have nothing to do with MFC. In fact, since I am doing a Panty Site (not much affected by MFC either way) and a new kind of Indy camming/Listing site that will allow you to list MFC and any other sites you're on, so is AGAIN not affected by MFC, I think it is seriously rude to keep calling my motives into question, when you can show no connection from this subject to my greed and how it will be fulfilled in any way by this. As a matter of fact, I am annoying YOU, which makes you less likely to spend money on my projects and HURTS me.
Again, I make a good portion of my living directly from my MFC account. So take that as you will.
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Anything else (petitioning, reporting, blahblahblah) is just getting in the way of my bottom line.
Ah, well there again we disagree. If you make money from MFC and MFC changes the way it enforces the rules, it WILL affect you, and cannot affect you but positively. So, since you and I are still on a friendly basis, why not just ignore these threads. There is only a few of them, and just consider them Bambalina's wacky pet project, and pass them on by? I realize you read and enjoy other things from me, and I promise those will continue. But I would like to be able to express MYSELF, and use my freedom of speech and try to do what I believe is right.
Lastly...look through the first two or three pages of threads and tell me these MFC threads aren't more substance than over half the threads out there.
B