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New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
I would really like some honest feedback from Sugar Babies/Strippers on a different "business model" for entering into an "arrangement."
To cut to the chase, I am a submissive type who likes to be humiliated and "used" by women. I am attracted to Sugar Babies and Strippers on this forum, because of the aggressive and open way in which they talk about using men for their own selfish purposes.
However, the problem is that I am not loaded with money. So, I'm thinking about offering alternative services, like house work, running errands, chauffeuring, any chores really. I'm also an IT guy. So, I could also help with computer-related problems, for those doing cam work. I'd be willing to make small financial investments, like paying for groceries or restaurants, etc. but no allowance. The Sugar Baby gets to choose when and where we meet, at her convenience.
In return, I would not expect sex, just some "play" that does not involve any activity that is unsafe or too intimate. I especially like to be naked and made vulnerable around fully clothed women.
One benefit of this relationship for the Sugar Baby, is that she doesn't have to put on any "airs" of lbeing attracted to me. She can be perfectly comfortable in her role as using and abusing me. She can also engage in other relationships openly around me. So, our relationship should not detract from her other more financially-oriented relationships.
So, I know this sounds a bit like an ad. However, I am really looking for feedback on whether this type of arrangement would be attractive to Sugar Babies and Strippers. Any improvements I could make?
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Ive done this for housework and errands (like taking my pets to the vet, dry cleaning, grocery shopping). FOr this kind of thing though the woman probably would be more open to it if she is dominant / fetishy. Because you're looking to provide domestic service in exchange for play (CFNM seems like one fromw hat you wrote), not a "sugar baby" dynamic at all - and advertising like that will cause you to be dismissed by the majority of SBs and money chasers, because they'll (rightfully) view you as a timewaster.
SBs/SD dynamics are financial. You're asking for a D/s service. So advertise accurately.
Bear in mind dominant women get overwhelmed with these kind of requests and expect the guy requesting to be an emotional vampire/take up tons of her time... so ensure what you offer is thoughtful and equal to how much of a burden you may be. Have her define the terms. Don't be demanding since yu're not offering much and that'll be a huge turnoff. Also since you would be in her place (maybe) which most SDs never are - be open about who you are so she can screen you. Itll convey your seriousness. Also do a very thorough "am I creepy"? check, snort
But yes there is a market for this. Not a huge one (like at all, since the market is overSATURATED by men who desperately want to do this... and women who are vaguely interested/indifferent) and you won't get piles of her attention but if you like feeling exploited and ignored in the process, this sounds like a decent place to start.
But many Dommes can just get subs and slaves to *pay* for the privilege to do this. Like easily (trust me). You may want to just try collarme or fetlife and look for a lifestyler instead of a professional... because even though this feels like a new and exciting project to you, it is very regularly asked of dominant women and other sex workers. You'll just get stepped over and overlooked. I'd overlook you in an instant unless you offer special services like... idk, dentistry or are a mechanic or something.
What I'm trying to say is your best bet is a lifestyler... or have no expectations of "play" and just be a sex worker's bitch. But again, for the latter, many can get men to pay quite a bit for it - so make your services competitive and compelling. Competitive, compelling, and worthy - I cannot emphasize this enough. Errands and computer fixing is what any average joe can do.
But if you want to be realistic - sign up for alt, collarme, fetlife, and just look for a lifestyler.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Yeah, I would rather avoid the fetish scene for the reasons you mention, e.g. dommes are overwhelmed with too many takers. And the pros just get bored too easily. :)
In my experience, better opportunities can sometimes be had outside of normal channels. I have had a few good encounters with vanilla women who enjoyed making fun of me, without it getting erotic for them. A lot of women don't realize the power they have over men and can get a high off of that, especially when it is all new to them.
I also wonder if a lot of strippers are tired of the strip-club dynamic and may find a certain appeal in turning the tables, so to speak. In the club, there is always a power struggle. Sometimes, the girl gets the upper hand, sometimes the guy does. Depends on the personalities and the economics of the situation. For every young college girl making $1,000 a day doing air dances, there are plenty of single moms struggling to get by and doing god-knows-what in the VIP room. So, for some at least, the idea of having total control could be an appealing change of pace.
In the end, I'm looking for a quid-pro-quo that is emotionally uncomplicated, not a lifestyle situation.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Well, you're being unrealistic & are chasing a pipe dream if your focus is on strippers (ie a hot vanilla girl who is a sex worker and essentially would like to have you indulge your fetish for free without having experience or a pre-existing urge to do it), but good luck if youve had success before.
Honestly this is why guys with this kind of fetish can be frustrating - they have unrealistic hopes that dont match their output (meaning what they have to offer / bring to the table) and then bemoan the lack of dominant women available.
Youre essentially asking for free (in terms of finance) access to the personal life of a sex worker. To do this - you'd nee dto know where she lives, her real name, personal info, etc. Do you know how many boundaries we have? And you are offering errands in exchange for being naked around her and her attention? But you are hoping to invoke a sense of dominance in a sex worker so that she suddenly finds this dynamic rewarding enough to keep you around? EVen if she may not be explicitly in the scene because going through the proper channels (lifestyklers, pros, etc) is too tiring for you?
And wait - let me guess, emotionally uncomplicated means you're married too right? lol. OK.
Yea.
bonne chance
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Hahahaha I was just going to say much of what you said Roast. I am a Domme and this request was so way off base for a sd/sb relationship and a very underhanded way of trying to get the fetish experience that you are looking for. You may want to avoid the fetish scene but you should be honest in what you're asking for and why OP. You aren't changing a pre-existing dynamic you are simply being sneaky and underhanded in your requests.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
^lol, I was hoping you'd chime in. Yea, well said.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Well, I don't think your responses are being fair really. First, there was nothing in my post that suggested anything about being sneaky or underhanded. I told you exactly what I was looking for.
Second, I'm not trying to get anyone to do anything for free. I'm looking for a barter arrangement and trying to understand what kinds of services would offer real value.
And as far as being married, what strippers and SBs don't offer their services to married men? Please spare me the holier than thou attitude. :)
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Lol not holier than thou - you kidding. But it speaks to why you need to be more realistic since you can't 'date' or seek out a lifestyler, my lol was to you not being upfront about that. It is a real barrier that you need to name upfront and be direct about instead of using a euphemism.
Remaining disinterested in a pro when pros primarily exist for your demographic is foolish. No stripper is going to be jazzed about this dynamic with a married man in exchange for errands, groceries, and computer work. You especially will not catch anyone who advertises themselves as a sugar baby either. What youre proposing has nothing to do with SB/SD arrangements. This arrangement is also not new or different, it is very banal and routine among sex industry workers.
A lifestyler who is also married is your best bet.... or cultivate it from a female friend who doesn't respect you as an equal and takes advantage of you. They may not be hot and young, but they'll fulfill the fantasy. If that is not what you want and you want to fish from a strange sexy pool, you're not living in reality.
A guy paid me the other day the equivalent of $200 on his end (lol my cut was way less but whatever, this isnt CC) to just sit and talk about this via cam. Meaning we weren't even in the same state, nor will he ever actually *do this*. He paid to just have the privilege to talk to me about it. He said he'd paid a few other camgirls within the same few days to do the same. That is your competition if you're looking for a sexy young sex worker to do this. You cannot compete with the services you propose. You need someone not in the industry or someone IRL who views you as their... eunuch of a friend or something.
If you don't want to take our perspectives because it doesn't bode with your fantasy it is your loss.
I'm more posting this since SW seems to be attracting more and more fetish guys who somehow think because they don't want actual sex they are somehow an exception to traditional transaction expectations. You're not.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
antoniogentilenc
Well, I don't think your responses are being fair really. First, there was nothing in my post that suggested anything about being sneaky or underhanded. I told you exactly what I was looking for.
Second, I'm not trying to get anyone to do anything for free. I'm looking for a barter arrangement and trying to understand what kinds of services would offer real value.
And as far as being married, what strippers and SBs don't offer their services to married men? Please spare me the holier than thou attitude. :)
This attitude here is exactly the reason you will have a problem finding the arrangement you seek. All roast did was offer you good advice about a better suited market for the thing you're looking for...and you didn't consider for a second she might be right. Very, very little vanilla girls have any interest at all into a naked man ironing their clothes...even if they're completely clothed and hate ironing.
You're basically trying to fish for birds in an ocean.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
^Seriously
The guys who Ive had do this for me with no payment were friends who just... guy friends stuck solidly in the friends zone. They were never naked doing CFNM stuff though and I never verbally humiliated them, they just bent over backwards to do stuff. I think every woman (sex worker or not) has had at least one guy like this in their lives.
It has to happen via natural m4w friendships (which is unlikely if you're married or will take forever) or you gotta pay or offer an expensive or groundbreaking service tailored to the specific woman (best option for married men who don't already have contacts and want no complications). Or you seek out someone who may not be your ideal age/looks where emotional complication may happen (they are married, you are married) and you cant everything you want to do for her because it needs to be discreet for you both.
Anything else belongs on literotica or she-makes-the-rules.com
Facken subs, I say, facking subs.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
antoniogentilenc
I also wonder if a lot of strippers are tired of the strip-club dynamic and may find a certain appeal in turning the tables, so to speak. In the club, there is always a power struggle. Sometimes, the girl gets the upper hand, sometimes the guy does. Depends on the personalities and the economics of the situation. For every young college girl making $1,000 a day doing air dances, there are plenty of single moms struggling to get by and doing god-knows-what in the VIP room. So, for some at least, the idea of having total control could be an appealing change of pace.
I really hate when guys think they know what it is like to be a stripper.
IMO if you are trying to find a vanilla-ish non-dom person to do this for it is going to get weird very fast. I feel like I would be the type of person you would want to target. But people like me what to be paid well so that we can take care of all that stuff that you wish to do. Get it?
It is like the 1000s of customers who want to give us massages while we sit in their laps for free. I would rather DANCE, GET PAID, and buy my own professional massage.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Dios mio, just listen to Roast lol. Pure avarice is the only motivation for most strippers and sugar babies, period. If you understand the concept of opportunity cost, this should make perfect sense to you.
You say you don't want a Lifestyler, but you're just goin to have to accept that your offer is not appealing to anyone else. Your options are pretty much waste time trying to find super naive vanilla girl, save up for Pro Domme, or find Lifestyle Domme.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Roast was very polite and thorough in breaking it down for you and she's 100% correct. You're not going to find what you're looking for offering only what you're offering. People pay good money to experience what you propose so you can pretty much count on it staying a fantasy unless you want to "lower your standards". The sad truth is so many "subs" keep rutting around with pros because lifestylers aren't as "visually appealing". That's the reality of things though. Sex WORKERS don't do anything for free and yes that is to say (once more) that what you're offering as "payment" has very little value.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Why do I automatically think that every person that comes on SW and asks ridiculous questions like the OP is a troll? I mean you really can't be this dumb...
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Hey, I do respect much of the advice I've gotten so far.
Anyway, the reason I mentioned SBs in the first place, was because they seem more open to complex, non-traditional arrangements than a pro working strictly on an hourly basis or on a menu.
And I understand that in the service-oriented marketplace, sex work has a much higher price tag than housework. So, I can see why many of you reacted indignantly to my proposition. It is as if I'm offering to trade something of relatively little value ($15/hr) for something of much higher value ($200+/hr).
So, let me put a question back to the group. Is there anything a sub could offer to make an arrangement more appealing and less costly? I'm not eliminating money from the equation, just trying to figure out what would motivate women to enter into an arrangement that is not entirely financial.
I know that the vast majority of women are not likely to derive sexual gratification, but are there other types of gratification that your average stripper/SB could derive from a non-traditional arrangement that involves CFNM/light femdom?
And in the wide spectrum of sex services, how do sex workers perceive CFNM/light femdom? What is its price tag relative to lets say, grinding a guy in the VIP? Is CFNM more or less work for you?
Lastly, what kinds of barter services would provide more meaningful value than housework?
Let's put aside stereotypes of fake subs, etc. Let's talk business. Help me come up with that arrangements that could work in the real world.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
No one is indignant or invoking fake sub stereotypes. You're being intentionally obtuse, maybe we've been writing too much. You can't talk business when there is no real transaction with a mercenary. Example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
antoniogentilenc
just trying to figure out what would motivate [sex workers] to enter into an arrangement that is not entirely financial.
Answer: None
None.
None.
None.
"But, what if-": Answer is none.
"If you think about-": Answer is none.
"Why don't you help me-": Answer is still none.
"But my fantasy is so easy-": None, none, none.
"You guys are meeeeeaan-": NEIN.
"But porn taught me that-": NON.
"Why are you guys so mercenary, I just want a hot girl to-": NUN.
"Life stylers arent hot though and Im awesome-": NEJ.
"In my experience-": NEEN.
"BUt strippers are-": NIE.
"Once upon a time when I was masturbating-": BU DUI.
"Hot women should be available-": None.
"Intellectually-": Nah.
"Businesswise, it'd be-": Nope.
"What would Jesus do-": Nada.
"But I'm different-": Negatory.
Or pick any of these: http://users.elite.net/runner/jennifers/no.htm
Which is what everyone has told you.
Seek out a lifestyler.
/thread
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
fuck me, i spent wayyy too much time on this thread. oh well.never getting that time back. so here is a picture that makes me laugh
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9...11120at114.png
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Pretty much NOTHING beats money. And I say that being in a lot of categories.
Vanilla cam model
Online (cam) Domme
Pro (RT) Domme
Lifestyle Domme
Hot chick that just gets free stuff cause I'm awesome
In the end money pays my bills and gets me pretty stuff. It takes an INCREDIBLY high caliber of sub that is allowed to do domestic duties alone with no financial expectations. With the hundreds of offers do be a domestic sub I've gotten only ONE has been allowed the privellege. I have another in town that has been trying to get into my house for TWO YEARS to be allowed domestic duties and still hasn't proved himself.
To be completely honest with you I wouldn't look twice and your offer. Actually I'd pretty much skim over it once and delete it. I understand what you want and what you're trying to do. But if you're looking for someone in mine or Roasts league then with what you're offering it's just not going to happen.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
roast
No stripper is going to be jazzed about this dynamic with a married man in exchange for errands, groceries, and computer work.
^This. As a Dancer, I can safely say that 99% of dancer's wouldn't even entertain the idea. And, IMO most SB's would expect a lot more for their time. Plus, it's simply NOT their job/what they are looking for so it may be hard to find someone willing to agree to this type of arrangement.
OP-If you enjoy fetish & want to explore this side of your sexuality furthur-then see (this means PAY) a fully qualified dom (she is a professional & CAN provide you with the service you want, with the discretion you need). Any service has it's price & you get what you pay for. Would you want to put in effort & time for groceries, technical assistance or an occasional dinner? My guess is-probably not, at least not continually.
You would be more likely to find another "hobbyist" like yourself (maybe via an adult matchmaking type website etc), rather than advertising for a SB. Additionally, (if you are actually in a relationship atm) have you tried fetish play with your SO (many couples enjoy it...& it could even be fun for both of you)?
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
roast
No one is indignant or invoking fake sub stereotypes. You're being intentionally obtuse, maybe we've been writing too much. You can't talk business when there is no real transaction with a mercenary. Example:
Answer: None
None.
None.
None.
"But, what if-": Answer is
none.
"If you think about-": Answer is
none.
"Why don't you help me-": Answer is still
none.
"But my fantasy is so easy-": None,
none, none.
"You guys are meeeeeaan-":
NEIN.
"But porn taught me that-":
NON.
"Why are you guys so mercenary, I just want a hot girl to-":
NUN.
"Life stylers arent hot though and Im awesome-":
NEJ.
"In my experience-":
NEEN.
"BUt strippers are-":
NIE.
"Once upon a time when I was masturbating-":
BU DUI.
"Hot women should be available-":
None.
"Intellectually-":
Nah.
"Businesswise, it'd be-":
Nope.
"What would Jesus do-":
Nada.
"But I'm different-":
Negatory.
Or pick any of these:
http://users.elite.net/runner/jennifers/no.htm
Which is what everyone has told you.
Seek out a lifestyler.
/thread
;D Lmao.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Bahaha, roast KILLS me. XD
I think at this point, this guy is going to do whatever he wants to do and figure it out for himself when it either never comes to past or blows up in his face in a bad way. For future reference, asking a question and then debating the answer you get is so bloody obnoxious. Don't do that.
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
He's not going to get anywhere.. this is a lame attempt to get free play and he thinks we will just give it to him...
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
#1. I believe the OP is enjoying being told he is an idiot in this thread. He sure is geting a lot of "attention"...
#2. My rate is $6.66/min. I spent 5mins reading & responding to this, so you (OP) owe me $33.30.
#3. Bitch boys (like you) are a pain in the ass, which is why they have to pay. Trust for even the most simple shit takes a long time to earn, which makes your "services offered" very limited, and therefore useless.
I've had ONE who didn't have to pay, because I knew him personally, he was extremely trustworthy, very competent and would do pretty much anything I asked (including clean up after my appointments).
#4. Re-read all of Roast's posts. You owe her a lot of money!
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
ONCE again "I LOVE YOU Roast"
Having listen to a bitch like him is not worth getting my house work done. We see losers like this everyday.
Dude, go work harder, Make more money so you can afford to fullfill your dream instead of asking us to lower our prices or expectations.
People who offer to work for free, are never worth it. Time consuming vampire who would want more from us than we are willing to give. How much time & frustration it would be because you could never do anything right.
I would never risk my health because this kind of loser always makes my blood pressure go up. No man is worth it.
Sam
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Re: New Twist on Sugar "Business Model"
Some excellent advice has been given in this thread. That said, we need to shut it down and stop replying.
Uh, guys? Considering that most guys who have a CFNM thing also have a thing for groups of women giving them shit this guy has gotten not only great advice but about a month and a half worth of jizz in his pants stuff. It's time to leave him to his advice and let him figure it out on his own.