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I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Without getting into a ton of detail, I want to hear your opinion on what you consider "fair" for what you pay out to work.
Right now this is a hypothetical question, depending on the outcome of a couple meetings next week, this could turn into a reality.
It will be a nude club (juice bar, 18+, 2 stages)
Girl count will be kept low (max 10 entertainers on shift)
Open 6 days a week, nights only (7 or 9pm until 4am)
Let's say $20 dances on the floor (couches against walls) and 15, 30 and 60 minute VIP shows in a separate VIP area. Haven't really decided on pricing.
So let's say that the owner is looking out for both himself and the entertainers that populate his club, he wants to be able to pay the bills, staff and upgrade the club and promote - but he also wants to keep a small number of core girls happy and have them return on a regular basis.
What do you all feel, as seasoned or even newbie entertainers, is a reasonable house structure?
The tip-out policy will pretty much be non-existent. There will be one staff member on slower days, someone who will DJ/Manage and work the door on weekends and have a waitress. 2 people max.
So I figure there are one of two ways for the club to receive it's license/house fees.
A) There is a set rate per girl, depending on the time of arrival. The later it gets the higher the fee - probably ranging from $0 at open to $45 at 11PM. On the other side of this there could also be a set rate no matter what time you show up, where you get a certain amount deducted from the fee per hour that you work (let's just say $100, and you get $15 taken off for every hour as an example.
B) There is no set house fee, the club collects a small amount per dance or VIP. Say $5 per dance, and 15-20% of the VIP pricing.
I am also VERY interested to know your ideas as well. I want to get your take on the clubs you work at, and give me areas of improvement since house fees always seem to be a touchy subject.
Also, keeping in mind that you're dancing nude - what do you feel is a reasonable "upsell" for being bought off the floor for a set amount of time, being temporarily removed from the rotation?
I'm not going to get offended or try to argue any points, but I probably will ask your reasoning behind your answers if you don't explain.
Thanks :)
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BringOnTheMen
That's completely ridiculous.
...
You sound like you really don't know what you're doing.
+1
Have you ever managed a strip club before? The points BOTM brought up are super basic strip club management. Perhaps get some experience before you consider opening up a club - it's not as easy as you seem to think it is.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BringOnTheMen
That's completely ridiculous.
1) 10 girls max and 2 stages?? Are you trying to kill these girls and prevent them from doing dances?? So at max, there's only 8 girls on the floor talking to people...and only 8 girls (less than an hour) between stage sets... what happens when a girl gets a VIP? Now only 7 on the floor? Every time I've worked a shift where I had to go onstage more than once an hour, I spent a ton of time redoing hair and makeup in the DR and was too exhausted to talk to people by the end. I also had a physical "hangover" the next day and just wanted to stay in bed all day.
Allow me to elaborate on the two stages thing.
It's one stage. It has two poles and two levels. It's big enough you CAN run two girls on it, but it's small enough that one is plenty. Two song sets, at 10 girls that would give you about an hour of floor time between sets. At 1 song sets that would put you at 30 minutes. Wasn't planning on running two girl stages, that was probably my wording - sorry. *There is a satellite stage but there is zero reason to use it.*
The #1 reason of keeping the entertainer number low is to allow them all the opportunity to make money.
#2 reason is just the physical layout of the club. The dressing room is too small, and until a 2nd dressing room is built it just can't support it and still be a comfortable place to work and get ready.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BringOnTheMen
2) I would NEVER work in a club with only 2 staff members. EVER. You expect 1 person to dj, manage, and do security??? My boyfriend is a SC dj and that job is extremely time consuming. He gets NO breaks. He could never take on additional duties! Every 3 minutes he has to change songs and announce the girls and any specials, and in between those times he has to get music ready (which usually means looking up specific songs for girls) and make sure the girls are free to go onstage. I would NOT be okay with this overworked guy also being in charge of making sure I'm not getting assaulted. Because assault happens all the time in the SC.
I don't expect anyone to do 3-4 jobs at once. I would NEVER ask anyone to do that - because I've done it myself. However, it IS possible and it is possible to do it well. It's all about time management. With a non-liquor club, there isn't a real need to call out specials. We won't be cutting dance prices, we won't be doing 2-4-1's (at least not on a regular basis) and if a girl is going into her 2nd song or a new entertainer is coming on stage having a song change without someone talking isn't a huge deal. You just get back and announce them when you can.
The specific neighborhood in question isn't "the best" but in the 4 years I've been familiar with it and the two years I worked in it, there was NEVER an incident (fight) that couldn't have been prevented, and it doesn't matter if you have 1 bouncer or 1000 there is ALWAYS going to be someone who is going to grope you. I've had someone reach out and slap a dancer on the ass no more than 5 feet from me in a club with 5 doormen that was about 2000 sq ft total. Some people are just stupid, and you just throw them out.
Once the club is established and profitable to the point where additional staff could be hired, it most certainly would be. This isn't a "we're running bare bones no matter what" situation - it's merely keeping expenses as low as possible to begin with in order to not spend the first 6 months digging out of a hole and losing money on it.
The way the booth is situated in the club it serves as a managers station, and has a direct line of sight over the entire floor and VIP. The front door, parking lot, entry hallway, and the street in front of the club are also covered with cameras that have a monitor in the dj booth.
DJ programs have auto-play features that also allow you to limit song length. Clubs also have wireless mic capabilities. As soon as a general set list is put together and rotation established, the DJ doesn't need to be in the booth aside from minor adjustments to the rotation for girls in VIP or leaving or new additions or whatever. I've also been a DJ for 3 years, and I have managed and DJ'd on several occasions. It's really not that difficult with a lower number of girls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BringOnTheMen
3) Your second payout seems fair. I don't know how you would stay in business with the first one. BTW- if you want to retain good girls, it's never a house "fee" but the amount of money you can retain. So if the house "fee" was a flat $100 and I made $500, I would pay $100...but if I only had $80 in dances, I would only pay $80. AKA do NOT make girls go to the ATM.
I have a feeling this will be the more popular option and frankly would be my choice regardless.
If you make money, you pay. If you don't, you won't come out of pocket. You would also not have to worry about tipping a DJ, doormen, manager, show waitress, blah blah blah. These tip-outs would be worked into the second scenario so dancers would leave with more money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BringOnTheMen
You sound like you really don't know what you're doing. If it is a nude club it is especially not okay to only have 2 staff members, but you would not be able to afford even those two if you are only collecting that amount of money from 10 girls. Why 10 girls max? Where the hell is this place located that 10 girls is the max that it can have? How big is this place? I have been to a lot of small shitty clubs but they still took more than what you're taking from more girls....I don't advise you to take as much as these clubs if you want to retain hot girls but you seem to be living in dreamland with the way you are envisioning your club.
I know exactly what I'm doing, as I ran the same location for almost a year literally by myself 7 days a week. Friday and Saturday I had a waitress who also acted as a door girl. If there was an issue I handled it appropriately and quickly. Sun-Thurs I was the DJ, Manager, Doorman, and Server. We had zero issues this way. No fights, no groping that wasn't dealt with immediately. Nothing went unnoticed or unresolved.
The building in question is located in Phoenix. It's about 4,000 sq ft total, the floor/vip area is roughly 2400-2500 sq ft if I had to guess. It's not a large club, but it's also not a small club either. The plan would be 8 couches along the walls on the floor and 8 additional couches in the VIP.
The former club actually took LESS money than the second scenario and was still profitable. However it went out of business less than a month after I left due to the owner not being able to replace someone who was capable of juggling four duties at once and frankly just not wanting to be a part of it anymore.
The only reason I am considering it is that the lease is now greatly less expensive and I would have an investor that will allow me managing control to run the club to make it as profitable as possible.
The standards are low, to be brutally honest. It's not going to buy anyone a Veyron, and nobody is going to retire early from it. With ZERO promotion or advertising (aside from a cheap website and rarely-updated facebook page) the girls were still walking out with $300+ a night and they were EASILY the laziest group of entertainers I have ever met. Guys would come up to ME to arrange lap dances, the few girls I had that even tried would walk with 800+ no matter what the day was. And I'm talking about 10-30 customers during the week, and 70-80 on the weekends. We'd honestly have nights with 4-5 customers through the door and 3 girls, the club would make money, the girls would walk with money and I would walk with money and everyone would be happy. The guys that went there would either spend a lot of money on stage and we'd run the stage or they'd buy multiple dances and we'd just run the stage occasionally.
Thank you for your input :)
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
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Originally Posted by
shanna dior
+1
Have you ever managed a strip club before? The points BOTM brought up are super basic strip club management. Perhaps get some experience before you consider opening up a club - it's not as easy as you seem to think it is.
Hopefully you'll read my reply above this one, but to give you a short answer - Yes. I've run a similar format at the exact same location and it worked, was safe, and was profitable.
Might seem a little chaotic, but when properly organized, it works well.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
I've worked shifts where the manager was also the DJ and the bouncer, but this only happened during the day when you don't really have problems that need a bouncer and when there was no available DJ. The club atmosphere really suffered and there were several occasions where there was dead silence because the guy thought he could make it back to cue up the next song, so there was a girl just standing around on stage looking a little lost since she was in the middle of a set. There was also very rarely someone walking through the CR to check on dancers. We never had problems, but, they very easily could have happened. Our dressing room also suffered because our bouncers were in charge of restocking toilet paper and paper towels, and that easily fell off they guy's radar since he had so much other shit to do.
Sometimes, our manager would play bartender (no waitress) and bouncer - again, only on slow day shifts - and that was alright. You'd often have customers complaining about having to wait so long for drinks or having to go up to the bar to get them since they're used to waitresses, but it worked out fine enough.
I really disagree with having staff members wear multiple hats like that. At minimum, I'd say you need a DJ (you're really underestimating the importance of this job and overestimating how useful auto play and wireless microphones can be... the DJ is a host and sets the atmosphere for the club and also organizes the girls, without him, the stage show and mood totally falls apart), a bouncer, and a manager. Plus bartender and waitress, although if you have the waitress, the manager could play bartender as well, I suppose. Staff just doesn't really seem like the place you should be trying to cut down on costs.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BringOnTheMen
I've been inside clubs that seated no more than 20 people in tiny chairs (actually worked in one briefly) with a dressing room the size of a shoebox....like, could fit 4 people comfortable, 8 people in a pinch, and these clubs still had around 20 girls work the weekends. I think 10 is a good max for sun-wed but on the weekends if 1-2 girls no-showed (extremely common) and then another 1-2 were occupied in rooms then you would have 6-8 girls running the rest of the club...which is barely anything, especially if a bachelor party comes in or a girl comes in late. Which most do. These tiny shoebox clubs also had 2 floorwalkers, a manager, a doorman, and a dj, all of whom were extremely busy.
And like I said, I would never work in a club unless there were multiple floorwalkers walking by me and telling customers to behave. It sucks when you have to enforce rules yourself and it always means less money for you (whereas when the bouncer has to play bad cop you can still get another dance out of the guy) and always leaves the potential for assault. I worked in a club with many floorwalkers patrolling the floors and I still had multiple dicks pulled out in the VIP room (where it isn't private) and one time I was thrown across the room when I tried to escape an attacker. Heaven forbid this had happened working in a club where the one guy who was in charge of my safety was trying to figure out the playlist for another girl, in the office doing paperwork, outside dealing with police when a fight breaks out or someone gets kicked out of the club for misbehaving and then calls the police claiming assault (this happens ALL THE TIME), or in the bathroom.
The djs job is to put on awesome music and promote the hell out of girls and encourage guys to buy dances. If the dj is just checking in every 3 songs or so then guys don't feel as strongly convinced that they need to get dances to complete their strip club experience.
All you need is one incident to happen to occupy the time of your one staff member to make the club grind to a halt. And no, I do not count the female waitress as a second staff member, at least in the sense that she'll protect me.
All I have is experience in Arizona. I've literally never even stepped foot in a club outside of this state much less worked in one.
What you're describing sounds very hostile, very dangerous and very different from what happens in the clubs I've worked at and been at as a patron.
I have only seen one girl EVER physically attacked - and she instigated it. Got into an argument with a customer at the stage who tipped her a dollar and then continued his conversation, then straight kicked him in the face with her stiletto.
I can't even speak to what you're telling me about because in the four years I've been doing this I have literally never experienced anything like that. I've never worked at a club where guys were so out of control that we needed "Floor walkers" or anything of the sort. One doorman checking ID's and one doorman on the floor was really all I've ever needed to keep customers from molesting dancers. I have had situations where it has required additional doormen to keep the customers from attacking each other - and in that case there was a larger staff.
Again - when the traffic coming to the club increases beyond what can be controlled comfortably by one person, additional staff will be brought on. This goes for security, drinks, as well as dancers. I just don't see the need in staffing a club beyond it's needs and pissing everyone off. You don't keep staff around that way - if they aren't making money they quit. I could have 5 doormen at various points of the club but the house fees would either go way up to be able to cover them and the girls would be pissed off, the tip out would be huge for the girls to pay the doormen, or I would have to charge so much at the door that nobody would come in at all, effectively screwing everyone.
I have never ONCE had a dancer complain to me or an owner/GM that they didn't feel safe in a club I managed. I had (hot) girls show up regularly with just one male body (me) in the building doing 3 different tasks at once.
Frankly, if you had ever come into the club you wouldn't know it was only the one person. Most of the time customers would come back 3-4 times before realizing what was going on.
This is pretty much getting off topic though - the point of the thread was to establish a general consensus on what is fair or what girls feel comfortable paying out when they work.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
I have worked at clubs with both fee systems. I would MUCH rather pay a house than have the club in the customer's pocket every time I am. Although I never worked at a place with a $100 house fee... I sure as hell wouldn't want to pay that much. I'm sure this is normal for some places, but unless you have an awesome earning potential I think it's a little ridiculous. I work at a club that has a $1000+ earning potential (on the weekends anyway) and I pay $42 to work (no tip out) so maybe I’m spoiled. There are a lot of girls what work there so I guess they can charge each girl less.
If you have to charge so much because you have so few girls, I think I’d rather work with a couple extra ladies.
And as far as the number of employees... that club is small with a lot of ladies. There are quite a few employees, but I think only one, maybe two bouncers (nobody wears a uniform so really I have no idea). There's a guy that stands around a lot. He doesn't look very strong or scary but he might be a bouncer (or maybe a regular who just wishes he was a bouncer, I really don’t know lmao). The other is a manager, who acts as a bouncer. There is also a lady manager who hangs out on the floor at this little podium and basically just supervises the place. There are a lot of other employees at the club (no DJ, but a door girl, trash guy, bathroom guy, house "dad", waitresses, runners, massage lady, parking guy, ect) but as far as people there specifically as bouncers it doesn't seem like we have a whole lot. So I will say that a small staff CAN be done, especially if the club is small, but what you are trying to pull off would make me VERY uncomfortable. First of all, the club I am talking about has no rooms or private areas. It’s all one open space. If you are going to have rooms or private areas, I feel like you should have at least one guy over there while there are any girls back there. And even beyond that, how is ONE GUY gonna watch everyone’s back, even without the rooms? And then add other things he’s going to have to be doing, like DJing? This just gets worse the more I think about it.
What if you get a rowdy group of guys, one acts up and you go to kick him out and all his friends start getting hostile? It seems like there is just too much that can go wrong.
And if a club is going to be charging me $100(!!) to work, there sure as hell better be adequate security!
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
I wanna work in Arizona, where the girls never get assaulted!
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shanna dior
I really disagree with having staff members wear multiple hats like that. At minimum, I'd say you need a DJ (you're really underestimating the importance of this job and overestimating how useful auto play and wireless microphones can be... the DJ is a host and sets the atmosphere for the club and also organizes the girls, without him, the stage show and mood totally falls apart), a bouncer, and a manager. Plus bartender and waitress, although if you have the waitress, the manager could play bartender as well, I suppose. Staff just doesn't really seem like the place you should be trying to cut down on costs.
If you hire incapable staff, yes. Most people who work in clubs are only experienced in one facet of the industry. There are others (like myself) who can do anything but dance, and THAT is what makes something like this possible.
As I said, I've done this. It works. In a club where the only thing to sell is dances, you simply put emphasis during song change on said dances. I HATE the type of DJ that is CONSTANTLY talking during a girls set. If people aren't tipping, that's one time to hop on the mic and get people a little riled up, otherwise let the dancer do her thing and talk during song change to help the transition.
What we're planning to do is start up a club basically from scratch. It's been closed for months. It's gone through several name/ownership changes in the last few years simply because no one could figure out the formula to make it work. Sure I could work it out so that I could afford to hire on a couple DJ's, a couple waitresses, some doormen, an additional manager, and someone to serve drinks - but that would result in both higher house fees, more people the dancers have to tip out AND raising the cost of both admission as well as drinks to offset the payroll expense.
The way this will work out is as business increases, so will net income, and so will the ability and necessity to hire more staff - all while keeping costs low for both the customer (allowing him to have more money to spend on the dancers) and keeping fees low for the dancers (allowing them to take home more money each shift).
The more people come through the door, the more "free money" we get through door sales and a drink minimum. If we charge 15 dollars at the door and 6-7 dollars for soda, no one will ever come in, and if they do they will already start out feeling robbed and be less likely to spend their money on you.
If you charge a small amount to "enter" people are more likely to spend their money. That money will come back to us anyway through the sale of dances - but the dancers get the majority of that cut. I could charge $10 for cover + a drink and people will find that fair, and even at 50 customers a night 5-6 days a week average that will result in profitability with this place because the lease is so low.
Word of mouth is huge here.
"Hey I went to this little club, it was cheap to get in and get a drink, the girls seemed happy and I had a great time" or however the conversation goes is a LOT more beneficial to the bottom line than "I got charged 20+ dollars including a drink to get into to this place and the dancers all looked pissed off."
The way I ran it before on the busier nights was I'd have a waitress collecting door fee and drinks, serving drinks (keep in mind this is only soda/juice) and I would be running the music, the rotation, talking on the mic and keeping an eye on the couches and stage. On the slower nights, I could EASILY serve up to a group of 8 or 9 in under 3 minutes, and if I had to change the song or bring a new girl up before I brought them their change back it wasn't a huge issue for them.
We had SEVERAL reviews on tuscl and the only negatives we ever had were when we were there but not open yet, or the nights the owner decided to close up 2-3 hours early because he was on property and bored.
I read the reviews on those sites about once a week and not once did anyone ever mention lack of staffing, the music or energy being fucked up, or anything along those lines. We had the same kind of reviews as clubs that had a full staff. The service never suffered because of not having each specific job staffed individually, and the use of cameras and me being well over 6 feet tall and just shy of 300 pounds meant that security was more than adequate.
Our clientele consisted of about 50% local (neighborhood) young adults, and the other half was people who read our reviews or were from out of town. We also had several regulars from other strip clubs - including a resident DJ from a 19+ club up the street who would send us 18 year old dancers that would go in there.
The ONLY reason I'm considering this method is because I know FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that it works in this specific building and with this specific format.
Were it any other type of club in any other location I wasn't VERY familiar with, there would be staff. But it's the perfect storm of location, size, and projected customer size and quality that is leading me to believe that it is entirely probable that it will work until business grows to demand additional staffing.
I could be wrong, but then I would admit it and hire a doorman. It's a simple fix if I am wrong, and frankly if something is going to happen - it's going to happen regardless of how many people are in there and will be dealt with just like if there was a dedicated bouncer.
Believe me, I am all for dancer safety but this post was supposed to be about dancer profit.
If it turns out I am completely wrong and we get so busy so quickly that I need to fully staff the place that's fine - I just want to set a policy in place that stays constant to allow EVERYONE to be comfortable with the amount of money exchanging hands. I don't want to constantly be changing house and tip out policies.
I probably just added too much detail to the initial post but as you can probably tell, I'm rather long winded. :-X
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StripClubPsych
Again - when the traffic coming to the club increases beyond what can be controlled comfortably by one person, additional staff will be brought on. This goes for security, drinks, as well as dancers. I just don't see the need in staffing a club beyond it's needs and pissing everyone off. You don't keep staff around that way - if they aren't making money they quit. I could have 5 doormen at various points of the club but the house fees would either go way up to be able to cover them and the girls would be pissed off, the tip out would be huge for the girls to pay the doormen, or I would have to charge so much at the door that nobody would come in at all, effectively screwing everyone.
OK, if your club is just starting and going to be slow, then I can understand have a small staff and few dancers.
But I still think you need AT LEAST one guy whose only job is to be a bouncer. When I started dancing it was the shittiest club in the world. The place was nasty, the owner didn't bother to pay to have the dumpster emptied to he started piling up trash in the dressing room (no lie). We had way less than 10 girls normally on shift. It was slow as fuck, so we didn't need more. The manager was also the bar tender, the DJ, and security. Then the owner would usually be there, doing whatever. And we STILL had a guy whose main job was security. And this place was very strict no-contact, topless with pasties, so it was a lot less likely a guy was going to try to assault you.
But to answer your question, the amount I think is fair to pay in house fees depends on what the earning potential is. So I really can't answer without knowing how much you expect the girls to be making.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
I have worked at clubs with both fee systems. I would MUCH rather pay a house than have the club in the customer's pocket every time I am. Although I never worked at a place with a $100 house fee... I sure as hell wouldn't want to pay that much. I'm sure this is normal for some places, but unless you have an awesome earning potential I think it's a little ridiculous. I work at a club that has a $1000+ earning potential (on the weekends anyway) and I pay $42 to work (no tip out) so maybe I’m spoiled. There are a lot of girls what work there so I guess they can charge each girl less.
If you have to charge so much because you have so few girls, I think I’d rather work with a couple extra ladies.
And as far as the number of employees... that club is small with a lot of ladies. There are quite a few employees, but I think only one, maybe two bouncers (nobody wears a uniform so really I have no idea). There's a guy that stands around a lot. He doesn't look very strong or scary but he might be a bouncer (or maybe a regular who just wishes he was a bouncer, I really don’t know lmao). The other is a manager, who acts as a bouncer. There is also a lady manager who hangs out on the floor at this little podium and basically just supervises the place. There are a lot of other employees at the club (no DJ, but a door girl, trash guy, bathroom guy, house "dad", waitresses, runners, massage lady, parking guy, ect) but as far as people there specifically as bouncers it doesn't seem like we have a whole lot. So I will say that a small staff CAN be done, especially if the club is small, but what you are trying to pull off would make me VERY uncomfortable. First of all, the club I am talking about has no rooms or private areas. It’s all one open space. If you are going to have rooms or private areas, I feel like you should have at least one guy over there while there are any girls back there. And even beyond that, how is ONE GUY gonna watch everyone’s back, even without the rooms? And then add other things he’s going to have to be doing, like DJing? This just gets worse the more I think about it.
What if you get a rowdy group of guys, one acts up and you go to kick him out and all his friends start getting hostile? It seems like there is just too much that can go wrong.
And if a club is going to be charging me $100(!!) to work, there sure as hell better be adequate security!
First of all, I was just using the $100 as an example. I think you also missed the fact that with each hour you would work in that situation, $15 would come off your original $100 fee, so if you worked 4 hours you would only pay $40, if you worked 6 you'd pay $10, if you came in and made $1000 in a couple hours and wanted to leave - paying $70 wouldn't be so terrible, would it?
As far as the layout goes - it all goes by AZ state laws regarding nude clubs.
Not being able to find the exact wording of the statute online this is essentially the idea:
A licensed manager must be able to maintain a direct line of sight on all dancing that occurs within an establishment.
MEANING - The manager from a designated managers station (on file with the city and posted with the visual layout of the club) must be able to see the stage, and all lapdances going on from one spot in the club.
The way this place is currently set up, the DJ booth is set in the back corner, the floorplan is COMPLETELY open air. You can see EVERYTHING going on in any area of the club just by turning your head. The dressing room is obviously private, the bathrooms are closed off by a door and the (juice) bar has a bar top in front of it. From the DJ booth (the managers station) the VIP is directly in front of you and starts about 5 feet in front of the booth (which is open air), and the other couch dances would take place against the wall to your left.
There are (for both legal and safety reasons) zero areas of the club in which a dancer and customer can interact that is not within eyesight of someone in the DJ booth. There is a camera in the hallway, one at the front door and several in the parking lot to see what's going on outside. Even with just one person it is entirely more safe than a club that has curtained off or walled off private rooms without cameras.
Being a DJ isn't rocket science. Getting a group of guys excited about naked chicks really isn't rocket science either. I mean the dancers pretty much do all the work for the DJ, the DJ simply reminds people why they're there (to spend money), and informs them of the services provided (lap dances and VIP areas) in order to make them money. Being in an open air booth with 270 degree coverage of the room with no obstructions allows you to see who is on stage, who is giving dances, and with a low customer number it's easy to keep track of people.
I seriously threw three people out when it was open before. One guy because I realized after taking his cover that he was homeless and smelled like sewer, one guy because he fell asleep and fell out of his chair, and the third because I was having a bad day and he put his face WAY too close to a girl while she was on stage. Other than that it was a very laid back environment, and even when it was busy the majority of customers were respectful and peaceful.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
wait im confused... if the DJ is the bouncer, what's gonna happen when some dude in VIP is getting nasty/out of hand with a dancer while the DJ is busy in his booth or using the bathroom or eating or talking to a dancer or whatever? What happens when, at the same time, a couple customers out on the main floor start arguing loudly and things look like they might escalate?
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
I wanna work in Arizona, where the girls never get assaulted!
LOL we both know there isn't a place on the planet where beautiful women don't run the risk of being assaulted.
Hell I had no less than 5 dancers Saturday night fondle my ass, and I'm most definitely not the best looking person on the planet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
OK, if your club is just starting and going to be slow, then I can understand have a small staff and few dancers.
But I still think you need AT LEAST one guy whose only job is to be a bouncer. When I started dancing it was the shittiest club in the world. The place was nasty, the owner didn't bother to pay to have the dumpster emptied to he started piling up trash in the dressing room (no lie). We had way less than 10 girls normally on shift. It was slow as fuck, so we didn't need more. The manager was also the bar tender, the DJ, and security. Then the owner would usually be there, doing whatever. And we STILL had a guy whose main job was security. And this place was very strict no-contact, topless with pasties, so it was a lot less likely a guy was going to try to assault you.
Yes, I should have also mentioned that in the beginning that this club has ZERO traffic right now and isn't just going through a format or name change.
I would feel terrible about having 40 girls on shift and only having a handful of customers come in over the first week or so. I would never see those girls (or likely their friends) again.
However, if I could set aside part of the budget to actually pay dancers to be there until business can support them on it's own, I'm much more likely to have new and repeat dancers work. It's also a great way to keep quality up and address problems (catty, shitty attitudes, theft, etc) as they happen and limit them as much as possible.
General idea is that we will have money set aside after a minor remodel (basically a deep cleaning and new equipment) to keep the doors open over the course of the first 12 months. I expect to be able to go from 0 to profitable within the first 4-6 months, hire on additional staff after 3 months, and grow from there. I just want everyone to make money, the investor to be paid back and start making money, and people to have fun. I might be living in a dream world but it doesn't hurt to try.
Maybe I've just been lucky on my shifts over the years to not have witnessed all the assault that seems to take place on a daily basis at strip clubs. I'm not denying it happens I'm just saying I haven't seen it on the scale that it's being discussed here.
I've always held the basic principles that you absolutely may not touch or allow to be touched the breasts, buttocks or vagina, but if you want to let a customer touch your legs or your back there is legally nothing wrong with it and therefore I don't have a problem with it - but I leave it up to the dancer and if she's not comfortable with that, I will 100% side with her 100% of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
But to answer your question, the amount I think is fair to pay in house fees depends on what the earning potential is. So I really can't answer without knowing how much you expect the girls to be making.
Then it sounds like you'd be more open to option B.
When you make money, you pay out a %. If you walk in and only make money on stage or don't make money at all for whatever reason, you don't give us a cent. Especially in the beginning where I'm sure there will be nights with very little or no traffic, this probably the best system for everyone to remain happy and further down the road when the dancers are making money, so will we.
Of course I don't want to assume so if I'm wrong please let me know.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Luna123
wait im confused... if the DJ is the bouncer, what's gonna happen when some dude in VIP is getting nasty/out of hand with a dancer while the DJ is busy in his booth or using the bathroom or eating or talking to a dancer or whatever? What happens when, at the same time, a couple customers out on the main floor start arguing loudly and things look like they might escalate?
If it gets that busy where there are enough customers are in the building at one time - additional staff will be hired.
Also - without alcohol - fights are less likely.
The point wasn't that there will only be 1-2 people who aren't dancers on staff the entire run of the business, the point is that to keep costs low for both us and the dancers, additional staff will be hired on as needed - and I can almost bet my life on the fact that it won't be needed in the first few months.
I actually really hope I'm wrong and that we are slammed the second we open and myself and everyone that works there buys a mansion and a Ferrari a week - but in the real world in order for a club to survive in AZ (especially a nude club in Phoenix in this economy) - frugal is the key.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
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Originally Posted by
StripClubPsych
First of all, I was just using the $100 as an example. I think you also missed the fact that with each hour you would work in that situation, $15 would come off your original $100 fee, so if you worked 4 hours you would only pay $40, if you worked 6 you'd pay $10, if you came in and made $1000 in a couple hours and wanted to leave - paying $70 wouldn't be so terrible, would it?
I didn't miss it, I just misunderstood. I've never worked a place with that set up. I was thinking if you came in at a certain time you payed $15 less. How low would it go to, do you think? I'm just curious. Anyway, I like that idea. It seems like it might help you bring girls in earlier and encourage them to work longer shifts, but at the same time doesn't require them to stay a certain amount of time (which I hate). Am I getting that right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StripClubPsych
As far as the layout goes - it all goes by AZ state laws regarding nude clubs.
Not being able to find the exact wording of the statute online this is essentially the idea:
A licensed manager must be able to maintain a direct line of sight on all dancing that occurs within an establishment.
MEANING - The manager from a designated managers station (on file with the city and posted with the visual layout of the club) must be able to see the stage, and all lapdances going on from one spot in the club.
The way this place is currently set up, the DJ booth is set in the back corner, the floorplan is COMPLETELY open air. You can see EVERYTHING going on in any area of the club just by turning your head. The dressing room is obviously private, the bathrooms are closed off by a door and the (juice) bar has a bar top in front of it. From the DJ booth (the managers station) the VIP is directly in front of you and starts about 5 feet in front of the booth (which is open air), and the other couch dances would take place against the wall to your left.
There are (for both legal and safety reasons) zero areas of the club in which a dancer and customer can interact that is not within eyesight of someone in the DJ booth. There is a camera in the hallway, one at the front door and several in the parking lot to see what's going on outside. Even with just one person it is entirely more safe than a club that has curtained off or walled off private rooms without cameras.
OK, when you said VIP I was thinking private areas. I think this is a little more reasonable, although I still think it's a good idea to have a bouncer who is exclusively a bouncer (or if he has side-jobs at least something non-urgent like toilet paper refiller or something)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StripClubPsych
Being a DJ isn't rocket science. Getting a group of guys excited about naked chicks really isn't rocket science either. I mean the dancers pretty much do all the work for the DJ, the DJ simply reminds people why they're there (to spend money), and informs them of the services provided (lap dances and VIP areas) in order to make them money. Being in an open air booth with 270 degree coverage of the room with no obstructions allows you to see who is on stage, who is giving dances, and with a low customer number it's easy to keep track of people.
I seriously threw three people out when it was open before. One guy because I realized after taking his cover that he was homeless and smelled like sewer, one guy because he fell asleep and fell out of his chair, and the third because I was having a bad day and he put his face WAY too close to a girl while she was on stage. Other than that it was a very laid back environment, and even when it was busy the majority of customers were respectful and peaceful.
I don't know, I hear DJs talk all the time about how much bullshit they have to deal with and how it's not as easy as it looks... but then again I'm not a DJ. But still it just seems to me like it's too easy for something to go wrong. If you get distracted doing your DJ thing, maybe a girl starts complaining about her music or something, or maybe you are dealing with a customer already, and a girl starts dancing for a guy who gets grabby, or some drunk guy at the stage decides he wants to pet the kitty, that's going to be one of your dancers sexually assaulted, and she's going to have to be the one who has to process that.
I know that no matter how many bouncers you have this could always happen, but it seems like the responsible thing would be to have at least one pair of eyes whose main job is to look out for your ladies. That's my opinion on this.
Have you thought about not having a DJ? Maybe doing a jukebox instead?
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
I didn't miss it, I just misunderstood. I've never worked a place with that set up. I was thinking if you came in at a certain time you payed $15 less. How low would it go to, do you think? I'm just curious. Anyway, I like that idea. It seems like it might help you bring girls in earlier and encourage them to work longer shifts, but at the same time doesn't require them to stay a certain amount of time (which I hate). Am I getting that right?
Yep. The longer you stay, the less you pay. Just using those numbers as an example though. More realistically it would be like $60 for house with $10 off an hour. So if you work 6 hours your house is free. Could even go as far as how some cell providers give you roll-over minutes. If there's 8 hours of work to do, you pay off your house in 6 hours you can apply those 2 extra hours you're there to the next time you work. That might just be a lot of extra keeping track though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
OK, when you said VIP I was thinking private areas. I think this is a little more reasonable, although I still think it's a good idea to have a bouncer who is exclusively a bouncer (or if he has side-jobs at least something non-urgent like toilet paper refiller or something)
I don't disagree with this at all. Not having toilet paper can be pretty urgent though. Because then girls use paper towels, and those clog up toilets. And then flooding happens. lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
I don't know, I hear DJs talk all the time about how much bullshit they have to deal with and how it's not as easy as it looks... but then again I'm not a DJ. But still it just seems to me like it's too easy for something to go wrong. If you get distracted doing your DJ thing, maybe a girl starts complaining about her music or something, or maybe you are dealing with a customer already, and a girl starts dancing for a guy who gets grabby, or some drunk guy at the stage decides he wants to pet the kitty, that's going to be one of your dancers sexually assaulted, and she's going to have to be the one who has to process that.
I'm not speaking for all DJ's, and this isn't how I feel - but bottom line is the DJ is the person who gets the most shit from the girls. Anything from "I don't like this song" to "I don't like you" to "I don't like this new girl" and any other complaining that girls do.
DJ's are really worse than dancers for complaining. But they also have anywhere from 5 to 100 girls complaining about different things all shift, and have to deal with girls who tip like shit or skip out or constantly are late to or miss stages or don't check out or whatever. It's more of a stress and lack of patience thing than it is actually being a difficult job.
I don't know how it is elsewhere but just about every DJ I know except myself and another guy smokes pot and they're STILL assholes.
It's super easy for something to go wrong. Every program I've ever used though has had an auto-mix/auto-play option. It's not nightclub quality where it's totally seamless, but then again that's why DJ's usually talk when changing music. And when everything is done off a harddrive and not CD's, it's SO much easier.
I had bronchitis, the flu and a 103* fever, could barely keep my head up and had to use a whiteboard to communicate with the girls but aside from the talking part (which didn't happen) I was still able to sit in the DJ booth and play music earlier this year from 7pm to about 3am.
As far as not being able to see something, it doesn't take long to cue up music. You can easily do that in a few seconds when girls are away from customers or not giving dances. And if a girl comes up and is talking to you while you need to be watching something, you really don't need to make eye contact with that person. And depending on how loud it is in the club, sometimes it's easier for the girl to just yell in your ear directly so you can hear her.
I'm not claiming that it's a perfect system, but it's not as bad as everyone seems to think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
I know that no matter how many bouncers you have this could always happen, but it seems like the responsible thing would be to have at least one pair of eyes whose main job is to look out for your ladies. That's my opinion on this.
In a perfect world, all doormen are doing that at all times. But in reality, people space out, guys flirt with girls and girls flirt with male staff, and not everyone is doing their job at all times. I agree it would be better, but two would be better than one, three better than two, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
Have you thought about not having a DJ? Maybe doing a jukebox instead?
Would create a really weird atmosphere in the club. I've seen it done before and to be honest it was really uncomfortable. If someone isn't talking all the time or misses announcing a girl once in awhile because he's doing something else that's not a huge deal - but when there's just music playing and girls getting on and off stage... it makes you really uneasy.
I went into this club before I started working at it, the girls just kind of wandered around. Was zero structure. I got up to tip the girls (and well, I was one of 3 guys in the club and I was tipping about $20 per stage) and wasn't approached once for a dance. It's a weird feeling not knowing what's going on and it being super quiet when you're used to fast paced music and quick tongued DJ's that you can't understand a word of. It was seriously the 2nd most uncomfortable I've ever been in a club. The first time being when I went to hang out with a girl I used to work with and a girl came and sat on my lap for a solid 15 minutes without saying a word or even looking at me or responding to me when I tried to say something to her.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StripClubPsych
Would create a really weird atmosphere in the club. I've seen it done before and to be honest it was really uncomfortable. If someone isn't talking all the time or misses announcing a girl once in awhile because he's doing something else that's not a huge deal - but when there's just music playing and girls getting on and off stage... it makes you really uneasy.
I went into this club before I started working at it, the girls just kind of wandered around. Was zero structure. I got up to tip the girls (and well, I was one of 3 guys in the club and I was tipping about $20 per stage) and wasn't approached once for a dance. It's a weird feeling not knowing what's going on and it being super quiet when you're used to fast paced music and quick tongued DJ's that you can't understand a word of. It was seriously the 2nd most uncomfortable I've ever been in a club. The first time being when I went to hang out with a girl I used to work with and a girl came and sat on my lap for a solid 15 minutes without saying a word or even looking at me or responding to me when I tried to say something to her.
Yeah after I posted that I realized for a small club it probably wouldn't work as well. The no DJ club I mentioned use a jukebox, it doesn't have that weird vibe you described (and you'll have no problems with not getting approached for a lap dance lol) but there's usually enough girls on stage and people in the club to keep the energy up.
Also, that girl sounds really weird.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sierra.
Also, that girl sounds really weird.
She was. I'm a very easy person to strike up a conversation with. Doesn't matter if I'm at a club, a gas station, grocery store, or taking out the trash - people just want to talk to me.
Usually at clubs, girls at least ask before they sit down. I always give a sarcastic response along the lines of "That's probably better than me sitting on you" if I'm okay with it, I'll just say no thank you if I'm not.
If they do sit down without asking, they at least say something. I've never seen a girl let $50 worth of time go by without saying something to someone.
I don't know if she just couldn't hear me or she was ignoring me.
I still make sure to text someone that's at that club beforehand to make sure she isn't there... and if she is I usually bribe girls to come by if they see her coming my way.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
I can say the feedback here is dead on. Since clearly you realize many dancers aren't punctual, you have this "bonus" system for on time arrival. If you book 10 girlks, 5 will be there from 6 to 11, meaning they get NO floor time or dressing room time, and all will abandon you. The floor is where they hook the vips, which is most girls primary income
As for the dj thing, pm me. I know of an automated dj which announces the girls (pro announcer
), backannounces, does standby calls, promotes specials and such and the girls pick their own music. At least fpr non prime nights, focus your staff on protecting the dancers and their income
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pinups4
I can say the feedback here is dead on. Since clearly you realize many dancers aren't punctual, you have this "bonus" system for on time arrival. If you book 10 girlks, 5 will be there from 6 to 11, meaning they get NO floor time or dressing room time, and all will abandon you. The floor is where they hook the vips, which is most girls primary income
As for the dj thing, pm me. I know of an automated dj which announces the girls (pro announcer
), backannounces, does standby calls, promotes specials and such and the girls pick their own music. At least fpr non prime nights, focus your staff on protecting the dancers and their income
You're assuming they will be on stage constantly, which I can assure you will not be the case. I've run 3 girls before and they were maybe on stage about 6 times throughout the night. If it gets to the point where girls are getting dances, the stage will be shut down until they're done getting dances. If people want dances, they will have to wait anyway until the guy occupying her is done. That's just when you walk over to them and let them know that you apologize for the low girl count, you do that to keep the quality high *motion around the room* and give them a card for free cover next time they come in. That never fails. Most guys will give you a second chance if you're just honest with them. Saying "that's the way it is, better luck next time" never works. If you are honest with them about what you're doing "I'm letting you guys get some lap time with the girls so I'm not running the stage right now" the only guys that will complain/leave are the ones that aren't buying/tipping anyway and just want the free show.
I'm familiar with the concept of that program. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm most familiar with PCDJ Virtual DJ, and would either be using that or just plain old winamp.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
As a customer, if there's no entertainment on stage for much of the night, im leaving. Unless you have REALLY well produced videos of your girls, then MAYBE ill watch the tv. But sitting and stage/lobby dance tipping is the cheap part of my night where I see who has moves worth going back with
With no one on stage,. If there's 11 guys and 10 girls, 3 in dressing / break room, almost 40% of your patrons are bored.
Bored patrons leave and result in bad word of mouth
I work for the owner of a few clubs in my atea, and don't pay door fees. I still give the owjer shit and walk out if the stage is dead too long....all in dun, but sort of
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
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Originally Posted by
BringOnTheMen
More people dancers HAVE to tip out? No sir, I do not HAVE to tip out anybody. My money is my money. A tip is just that- a TIP. So fuck no would I, or any self respecting dancer, tip out people who didn't specifically help me. I used to work at a club with a big staff and I rarely ever tipped someone unless they helped me. I am a dancer, not Santa Claus. My tips are "thank yous" not handouts.
Here's the way it works, BOTM...
If you like the service staff provides for you, you're damn right you HAVE to tip them. Clubs don't pay them to take care of you, they pay them to take care of the club. The reason they put up with the club's bullshit is because the dancers generally take care of them.
If you don't, don't expect them to come back, and expect the club to replace them with someone who is willing to work for little money.
I always laugh at the double standard of "I don't work for free" when it comes to customers tipping stages, yet a doorman or DJ will work all night for the girl keeping her safe and playing her music and girls will walk out without tipping or only tipping a few bucks because of the attitude you're portraying in your post. Everyone aside from managers and the owners work off of tips.
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Originally Posted by
BringOnTheMen
Charging 15 dollars at the door is the minimum you should be charging to keep the riff raff out. For nude clubs, I'd prefer to work at a club that is $20 minimum (but ideally $30+). For reference, I used to work at a nude club that had a $30+ admission and it was the most profitable Deja Vu club IN THE WHOLE UNITED STATES. I then tried out a small dump that charged $10-15 and that included admission into it's sister club. Only scumbags came into the club and I quit after 3 hours because I couldn't handle it. The manager begged me to come back but until he changes the way the club is set up to get QUALITY customers (over quantity) I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
Please come to Arizona. PLEASE. I will take you to 10 different clubs and show you why NOBODY in AZ charges 20 or 30+ at the door on a regular basis. That club would maybe have a total of 10 people a week actually pay that.
The AZ club scene is not what it was years ago and from what I'm reading it's not as good as other parts of the country.
A lot of clubs charge $10 at the door, this is pretty standard. People (who end up spending several hundred dollars sometimes) still complain about that. One club charges $12. One I believe charges $15 and it's known as the rip off club.
I would love to be in that high demand and make that much money that I can refuse to work at a club over something as trivial as how much they charge at the door.
I would love to charge $100 at the door and give the girl 25 bucks of that and offer the customer a free drink and dance with paid cover... But that's not realistic.
Neither is $30. Neither is $20 or even $15. $10 would be great on the weekends, $5 is more reasonable during the week. This is COMPETITIVE with the 55 other strip clubs in the state.
Trying to go the high glam high roller road in Arizona gets you one thing - broke. You'll alienate your customer base before you even walk in the door.
If this was Vegas, New York or any other city with a huge population of well-to-do people, sure, fuck 'em. Charge as much as humanly possible. But being realistic and trying to not go bankrupt before the doors even open, what you're suggesting is asinine.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
The fact that as a manager you haven't stepped foot into a club outside your home state speaks volumes to me.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
Id never work in a club with only one dude on the floor. I would NOT feel safe.
I think you should have a 25% rate until you figure out what the earning potential is at your club.
Just because 300-800 was what girls were making before doesn't mean they will now. With the location having been closed it may take awhile for the clientele to build back up.
Charging $100 when girls are only making 100 won't work. Charging $100 when girls are making $1000 wont work either cause youll be outta business.
Best to play it safe and take a few dollars off each dance.
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Re: I want to hear your opinion on "fair."
All I can say is, I wish I had a house fee OR commission off dances. I have to pay both, and late fines and leaving early fines, sometimes. Pfft!
It seems best to just take a small % off each dance until you know the earning potential, then change to another system if you work out that will be better.