It's like you read my mind!
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I absolutely get where you are coming from, OP, but I do have another perspective to add.
I have had guys in the past get really annoyed with me and send me e-mails saying "you say you do dom work but you SUCK" etc etc - basically that I don't know what I am doing.
Here is the problem. "Dom" covers SUCH a huge range of stuff!! I absolutely do some stuff that falls into that category - I beyond love SPH, cuckolding, humiliation, face sitting, CEI, findom, and more. The stuff I do, I am good at - I have a lot of very happy repeat customers! But there is a lot of stuff I don't do - mostly the more physical side of things - cock and ball torture, bondage, spanking, strap ons, etc etc. I like to stick purely to the mental stuff. But because I am in the "dom" category, I get guys that come into my room, then leap straight into private without ASKING about what I do, and then get mad when I don't do it!
I am sure that some of these guys are bitching about how bad I am to other models, when really they are asking for stuff that I don't DO!
Its not always that the model is promising stuff that she can't deliver...sometimes men are just being stupid!
since this is more about extreme fetish things,, BDSM and stuff..
I;d say the OP is somewhat right...
anything else that goes on in this job is relative..
u wanna see THIS specific thing..
u can find it on porn tubes..
u wanna see ME?
well........ah....... Hello there!
what can I do in private for you?
well.... hum..... er........ I have no idea,lets find out!
read between the lines....
I feel like I'm getting jumped for something I didn't say or didn't intend to say.
****MAIN POINT: I am upset by women who are just outright LYING and those lies potentially harming or giving false information to viewers since this could be an outlet for 'bedroom kinksters' who may be shy about sharing that side of them. However the safety concern is the main thing that got to me. ****
I do a lot of fetish and role playing, a lot. However I do establish my limits of what I won't do (namely adult baby and age play, I cannot even pretend to like that). Considering I fake orgasm on cam at times I also fake reactions. I understand that most of this is acting however even actors generally research their 'role' before just diving into it, especially if some of that knowledge (or lack thereof) could hurt someone. However even though I am acting I know what I am doing. If someone approaches me about assisting in helping him with sounds, I am going to tell the dude "No."
And yes, Domination covers a lot. Mental, physical, sensual, etc...These are not the people I am talking about. It's the people who say they are a 10 year professional with a hearty bio but then when asked about it just yells at you and tells you that you are worthless as if they are avoiding questions about their 'expertise'. Certainly they know that all people aren't into humiliation and that could be a hard limit? I will answer basic questions so that people don't waste their time but I won't entertain them with fetish talk.
Am I making anymore sense now?
Also, calling me a "Dommely Domme" and making the assumption I am trying to sound better than...really? I came here to express a rant based on my concern for people's well being and also the downplay of something I take seriously. I don't care how people go about it but just be informed and honest if you are going to. Same for vanilla shows and keeping your equipment clean and not doing anything risky or stupid. Same principle.
^^^I guess what some people were reacting to was the judgement...and lawd knows alot of that goes on here. In that sense the camming connection sub-forum is different than every other area of sw, in that, unlike chicas who work in physical club locations throughout the world, all of us here are each others co-workers- as is every chica we discuss here, even in abstract. Judgement regarding who says what, who charges what, who lives where, whether one reveals ones earnings or not, what constitutes a 'proper' show in any context, vanilla (particularly regarding 'extreme acts') or fetish, it just gets...tiresome. It also usually stems from frustration on the part of those who cast judgement, and as such those threads tend to not end up shedding alot of light on anything positive. Factoring in that some of our customers do frequent this space, that judgement can come across as a weak form of self-advertisment at times, particularly for those of us who are 'out' regarding who we are on cam.
Reading this thread from the outside, I get the sense that this was to what people were reacting; your notion that your definition of a proper Domme show was somehow universal. I did notice that most of the people who have posted in this thread are those who usually side-step drama and navel-gazing, so they're perspectives of 'do your own thing and fuck the noise' aren't surprising to me. You're totally entitled to your perspective on proper Domme camming, but like others have much more informatively stated, camming is fantasy. Criticizing how others perform fantasy doesn't make alot of sense to many of us, whether we're involved in your fetish niche or not.
Raising the issue of safety in camming isn't a bad idea, but creating a polarity of 'good' cam girls vs the 'bad' as in the title of your thread is problematic to many of us. There is no 'good' or 'bad', and we all do what works for us. Focusing on our own business and our own $$$$ is much more satisfying than dwelling on the techniques and practises of others. Seriously, fuck the noise and get that $$$$$ doing what YOU do best :)
This is like a pink fetlife thread. I'm so tickled.
I got here late and everyone has made some super awesome points. So I don't have anything new to add but here is my bullshit (I have been drinking so this is going to be WOW!)
On this "trew" vs FAKE! issue. Online domination is so super srs. Like I've prowled fetlife for the last couple of years and some of the squabbles and never-ending judgmental attitude of people never ceases to amuse me. Bunch of people screaming in caps locks over someone not punishing their slave right. BUT SHE TOLD YOU NO WHEN YOU TOLD HER TO DO THE DISHES - SLAVES HAVE NO CHOICES. IF SHE WAS MINE I WOULD BEAT HER BLOODY. YOU ARE SO TERRIBLE, QUIT DOMMING IMMEDIATELY.
The general problem is that too many people put titles into a box.
For example: You say, "I am submissive." Now, because of that word, people are watching and expecting you to act like the textbook sub they picture in their minds. They have boxed you in.
For some reason 'Sub, Slave, Master, Mistress, Switch, etc' is very black-and-white with people. And they constantly feel the need to nitpick and cry foul whenever they see fit, as if it is their business to judge someone else's title or relationship.
And GOD FORBID, you step out of that box.
When you act bratty, act like an independent woman/have opinions (to throw off this 'submissive= meek' mindset) throw your collar out the window (ha!) or show yourself in a light that they did not picture - they immediately jump in and cry, "Fake! / Not a real submissive!"
There is no "BDSM bible" no law that says a Dom has to act like a emotionally closed-off asshole dressed in leather, or a submissive/slave has to crawl around naked and not have opinions and type with all of this capital letter bullshit on the internet (Y/you, M/me; ugh shoot me).
People really need to STFU and realize that it isn't about other people and their Master/Mistress/Sub/Slave/Switch title. Or their 24/7 TPE, or bedroom bdsm, or part-time kink relationship. Why do we have to place a name on it so badly? Just say, "Hey, this is MY relationship - not yours - this is how I run it, this is what I choose to define it as." That's it.
It is about YOU and YOUR relationship and YOUR feelings about bdsm. It's nobody else's issue/problem and you shouldn't be worried about them either.
You act how you want to act, and choose how and who you want to be and how you want your relationship to function. That is all that matters.
((HOLY SHIT I TRAILED OFF. lol where did my point go?))
Basically um,
Stop freaking out? We're doing this as a job - fantasy. Ego's and pride and blahblahblah, etc needs to be checked at the door.
Like, you shouldn't pry into someone else's relationship, you shouldn't tell another woman not to list herself as a Domme. Because it doesn't pertain to you. If some guy wanders over and finds her and thinks she's his goddess neither of them are going to give a fuck what you or anyone else thinks. And it shouldn't matter - that is their (money) relationship. Not yours. Not your business. Nadda.
Because I don't screech at men or dress up in latex does that make me any less of a Domme? Because I don't drop to my knees at the site of a man and talk in third person would that make me any less of a sub? Nope. I'm sure in someone's mind I don't fit the mold - because that's exactly it,
Like I said above, everyone has a set 'idea' of what is a 'Dom' 'Domme' 'Sub' and 'slave''' - you don't fit their mold, you ain't it. But other people don't fucking matter.
and sure i have an 'ideal' sub in mind. Do I think I'm going to find him on Streamate? LOL fuck no.
We are in the biz of fantasy. Like 90% of guys that come to us - have a fantasy. They are your "bedroom" type submissives - all good to go in the room, but once it's over, it's over. "subboy234" will probably dig you just as much as he digs the next chick with a whip - he doesn't really know anything different.
He just wants the appearence of dominance - what HE thinks is dominance....not "your reseme of professional domme skills - IVE BEEN IN THE LIFESTYLE 8 YEARS IM A PRO DOMME" like, the dude genually doesn't give a fuck and it just makes you look like a top notch douchebag.. he just wants you to get him off, in the way he wants his fantasy to be played out.
if you demand lifestyle subs then they'll sniff you out - but don't expect them to come crawling out of the woodworks. Collarme is a perfect example of D/s internet bullshit. and proof that our "sub/slave" guys via internet are like 90% fake/playing a fantasy. you want the real deal do the deed in person and you'll have better luck and maybe an easier time protecting your ego from all the "fakes"? idk.
If you could find a point or somet kind of logic in this post you are fucking awesome.
I'm so drunk right now.
I don't really have idea about domme stuff, but yet I have been asked to do it, and did it. I tried the ball torture (or what is that) sph and sissy stuff. I am not a domme, I didn't educate myself about being a domme, hell I didn't even read about that ball torture stuff before, I think I heard about sph only, but I went on with some things that came into my mind, and noone complained, they were very satisfied and left great feedbacks. As I said I don't have an idea about this whole stuff and once when I had a guy coming in my feechat talking something about mistress yadayada can I satisfy you or idk what, I didn't have better idea so I yelled at him to take me private now, and well he did. I continued yelling at him to do this and that, he was fine with it.
Compared to you obviously I suck at this, but so far guys loved me doing it. Believe me those studio girls who "give you a bad name" have their satisfied costumers too.
Btw I don't really understand how do they give you a bad name? Like they are not good dommes? Yea right, so what? Guys know the differenc between "some girls saying that they are domme, but they suck at domming" or "all the dommes suck". If they don't like the whipcracker yelling studio girl they will move on to the next, it does not touch them. They don't care. I bet they don't even think of it as much time as it takes to read this thread.
stop drinking, Hayden!
look how much u write when u drink:P
I believe I touched on this and asked some questions of you about it in my last answer, but as you didn't respond I guess you either A) Didn't see my post or B) Didn't read it to that point or C) Aren't interested in my thoughts on the matter. All of which is fine.
*takes very deep breath* People lie, both real time pros and online dommes. People sometimes get hurt. Knowing what they are doing is the responsibility of BOTH players. If a closet kinkster is able to get on the internet and find a cam site and then find a domme and pay for a show, he can take the time to research. If a person does no do their own due dilligence, well perhaps they aren't ready to play.
As lovehooks said people are picking up on a note of judgement which may have been unintentional on your part. I am wondering why you aren't equally annoyed that subs haven't done research enough to know safety basics? Safety is a two way street. I personally take issue with all the responsibility being laid at the feet of the domme. Adults need to be responsible for their own safety, submission is not a license to be negligent with your body. I think most of the customers are more savvy than you give them credit for being. As to the dommes who who say the do cbt and don't know what it is, and don't answer questions about it, if a customer chooses to go private with her after that, well he has all the same information that you do. You used this information conclude probably correctly that she doesn't know what she is doing. He has drawn another conclusion or he is willing to educate her, because he wants her to do the cbt session, because he wants her. I have had many customers take my private to beg me to do something I won't and I know a number of girls who have had guys teach them a fetish in private.
My point is that your concerns are based on assumptions about what MIGHT happen in private. The vast majority of the time what we imagine is worse than what goes on.
If she wants to just yell, that is her choice. This is a public space. If someone's hard limit is humiliation, they can leave her room no dollars spent, no time wasted, and no safety issue (your main concern). There is nothing wrong with this except that you don't like her behavior. Humiliation can be hard limit, but this same person may be yelled at at work, it will not damage them to be yelled at once by a domme online because they can click off as soon as she does it. Perhaps she doesn't wants subs who have humiliation as a hard limit. She is allowed. There is no safety risk here and pointing out things like this that don't have a relevance to safety but to style is what people are responding to.Quote:
It's the people who say they are a 10 year professional with a hearty bio but then when asked about it just yells at you and tells you that you are worthless as if they are avoiding questions about their 'expertise'. Certainly they know that all people aren't into humiliation and that could be a hard limit?
/headdesk
I guess my point is still missed.
I dont care who calls themselves what just as long as they understand what that is. Period. And I'm talking just BASIC shit. Like know what BDSM, the initialism, means before camming under it.
That's it.
I clearly stated I was ranting. From now on, I suppose I will just write my frustrations down and then if I have anything to say, deliver them in a factual, objective manner instead of venting temporary feelings about something that simply annoyed me and was written at 6am. I thought for some maybe they felt this way about other things in other areas of camming but that's not how this worked out. I apologize if anyone feels I personally talked down to them. It was a rant and the point was about safety and honesty.
You said you asked questions in a previous post that I didn't answer...I assumed most of these were rhetorical. And no, I didn't not answer you because I didn't think you weren't good enough, etc. (I don't know why people keep saying this...)
My friend was thrown aback by the no limits thing and didn't know if she was being literal or figurative so he asked some outlandish questions just to establish what exactly she meant. Most (that I've talked to personally) people's limits center around things like children and animals so he asked questions regarding that. She excitedly said yes to doing either live on cam. I found that to be incredibly messed up.
He had never done breathplay with a plastic bag and neither had she, admittedly. I personally find any online breathplay to be to risky but that's my limit. I have to be with a person if I am doing that and would never use anything more restrictive than my hand. Again, my personal preference.
I asked about and even researched overseas cam studios to try and understand the position some women are put in. I didn't get much personal information and only stories about the Phillipines which is why I asked for people to elaborate.
Did I address all of your questions?
LOL I never said I felt you thought I wasn't good enough. I don't know that good enough even enters into this. I can't even imagine. I said perhaps you weren't interested, and honestly that's fine, truly it is.
I don't think anyone is saying you can't fell how you feel at least I'm not. You can be aggravated about it, you can dislike it, but putting too much energy into it will drain you. You felt ranty we all do at times, and sometimes when we post those rants we get differing perspectives. I think as lovehooks pointed out people where taking to exception to the good/bad dichotomy and the "it makes me look bad" elements of the rant.
As to the studio thing, there are two ways that I meant that. In the case of a lot of girls they are hired to do a job and assigned to be whatever role. It's a job they go in and they have to wing it. I remember back when I first became a PSO in '91 I was assigned 5 characters some of them I hadn't a clue about. I was told to watch porn to learn. I likely sucked, and I hated that job. I think for a lot of studio girls it's like that you go in do your job, play your assigned role. Yes the studios should better train them, but they don't. To me that's the fault of the studio not the model. She's just doing her job to the best of her ability.
I'm bowing out of this thread,now because I'm repeating myself and that's not good for anybody. :)
what are basics to you might not be BASIC to every one.....( most guys and girls learn about dom/BDSM via the media and mainstream porn)
They have a very water down and very stereotypical view of what a dom is and what a sub is.... and they want you to fit that view....Well I say fine they are paying.... I am not going to waste my time and energy educating them about something that say see in limited way..... If they want to learn more they are free to do show but it is not my job to educate men about dom/BDSM.....It is my JOB to get them off by fulfilling their dom/BDSM fantasies.... The better I do at that the more they come back to me.....and most guys know the difference between fantasies and real life ( and if they do not they have bigger issue than their domme not know the BASIC)
Alright, my main point which I've stated over and over is being overlooked which was safety and not being dishonest to the customer to avoid a dangerous situation.
You guys keep going back to me being judgmental and like I am personally attacking you guys. This was taken so out of context that it no longer even relates to the issue.
For example, you wouldn't say you could squirt in a show if you physically can't do it...that's false advertising. That would make other camgirls look bad. Now just relate that to a kink scenario and that's all I've been trying to say however throw in a few physical risks and it could endanger someone.
Personally, the going off on me, the mockery, the cattiness...not my jam. I'm done and not real keen on sharing anymore personal experiences. You guys kinda took this and ran off in a direction I didn't anticipate. I am now kicking a dead horse so I'm out.
Idk, I probably shouldn't post but...I see where you keep talking about safety and being honest with clients. BUT...there's not one thing any of us can do to keep cam customers safe or make other girls tell the truth. I had a guy come in for domination and he said he had no limits. He said the last girl made him jack off with sand paper. Maybe she did tell him to do that, maybe he made it up, who knows. IF she did and he did it, well....that was his choice. The next girl could tell him to shove a cheese grater up his ass...if he is stupid enough to do it, what is anyone going to do? Cam customers have to take responsibility for their own safety...these are grown men.
I'm sure there are girls, btw, who lie about squirting. Lie about deep throating, or doing anal...the list goes on and on. Some girls just are not concerned with making other cam girls look good. They care about their bottom line and getting as many shows as possible. If YOU want to run your shows as an authentic online BDSM lifestyle experience, do that...and guys will learn where to find proper information.
I think all anyone is really trying to say, is that you can't control other cam girls. And worrying...pondering...thinking about what the chick next door is lying about or if she's going to damage someone is going to make you crazy and want to leave camming for good.