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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Think!
After all, aren't we all immigrants?
I am not an immigrant. I am 4th or 5th generation offspring of people who came here according to the rules, never applied for or got government assistance, and AFAIK never traveled out of the country. FWIW, other than a week in Bermuda, I've never left the country. The problem is these people are here in contradiction of the law. If I break the law, I will rightfully be held accountable, as well they should. In this case, they are being rewarded for breaking the law because Obama is pandering for Hispanic support.
On top of which, he does not have the authority to do this. It is lawless and flat-out unconstitutional. He cannot order certain laws be selectively enforced.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bem401
I am not an immigrant. I am 4th or 5th generation offspring of people who came here according to the rules, never applied for or got government assistance, and AFAIK never traveled out of the country.
I was speaking figuratively, not literally. However, whether you like it or not, your forefathers and foremothers were immigrants. That you don't dispute, do you? Well, unless you are a Native American, then it is a different matter. I guess the federally funded GI Bill of Rights, which helped returning war veterans who served their country to attend school among other things, was also a mistake too? That was considered 'government assistance' too, wasn't it?
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Think!
I was figuratively speaking, not literally. However, whether you like it or not, your forefathers and foremothers were immigrants. That you don't dispute, do you? Well, unless you are a Native American, then it is a different matter. I guess the federally funded GI Bill of Rights, which helped returning war veterans who served their country to attend school among other things, was also a mistake too? That was considered 'government assistance' too, wasn't it?
My ancestors immigrated here LEGALLY. They followed the laws in effect at the time 125 years ago. They went through Ellis Island. They had jobs waiting for them. They received no government assistance.
What has the GI Bill of Rights got to do with illegal aliens? A bill assisting military veterans in finishing their education after having fought in WWII should not be compared to Obama refusing to follow his Oath of Office and uphold laws already in effect so he can pander to the Hispanics in this country.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bem401
What has the GI Bill of Rights got to do with illegal aliens?
You tell me. You are the one who brought up the topic of "government assistance.' I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander.::)
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Well just wanted to add there's a new bill that has just passed that will be covering undocumented illegal immigrant's college tuition. I believe its called the Dream Act. It stands for Developmental Relief and Education for Alien Minors.
Now I'm not sure how after school these educated workers can get employed without an SSN. Or how will they pay taxes once they get their degree. Or is it to send them home with an American College Education? I don't know. One thing that's sad is that the American people can't even afford to send their children to college even after paying into the system for so long. I guess we're just telling our youth to sell their asses with all of those sugar daddy advertisements you see popping up on google when a struggling student searches " college funding".
Way to go US!
So free healthcare, benefits, free housing and now free college education? What country can I go run to get all of this??
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Think!
You tell me. You are the one who brought up the topic of "government assistance.' I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander.::)
Now you're on to geese and gander? You keep avoiding the topic. You dragged war veterans into the debate after declaring us all immigrants. Stick to the issue at hand. These people sneaked into the country to try to take advantage of the all-too-generous nanny state that presently exists here. You are doing everything possible to avoid discussing the fact that they are here illegally and should not be rewarded for being so.
And regarding the DREAM Act.............it did not pass, but what Obama is attempting here is an end-around Congress to implement something similar for his own political gain at the expense of American citizens and legal immigrants. Prfesidents do not have the authority to act in such a manner.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bem401
Now you're on to geese and gander? You keep avoiding the topic. You dragged war veterans into the debate after declaring us all immigrants. Stick to the issue at hand. These people sneaked into the country to try to take advantage of the all-too-generous nanny state that presently exists here. You are doing everything possible to avoid discussing the fact that they are here illegally and should not be rewarded for being so.
And regarding the DREAM Act.............it did not pass, but what Obama is attempting here is an end-around Congress to implement something similar for his own political gain at the expense of American citizens and legal immigrants. Prfesidents do not have the authority to act in such a manner.
IT DID: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/06...t-himself.html
Presidents all do whatever they feel they need to for a re-election or to keep themselves in office working for who ever funds their latest campaign. Another move for some extra votes. Nothing new.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
^^^ The Dream Act failed in Congress. Obama is now trying to force something similar (but not identical) on Americans in violation of a President's Constitutional authority.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Actually, while proposed multiple times by the US Senate, the DREAM act was voted down repeatedly by the US House of Representatives.
However, via Presidential Order, court ruling, announced federal agency enforcement ( or non-enforcement ) policies etc., the following de-facto situation appears to exist ...
Illegal aliens are entitled to 'free' emergency medical treatment
Illegal aliens are entitled to discount state college tuition rates
Illegal alien parents of a US born baby are entitled to food stamps / medicaid etc. as well as exempt from deportation
Illegal aliens age 18 to 30 who can show they have resided in the USA for 5 years plus meet other criteria are now eligible to work legally and are exempt from deportation
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
^That's fucken sickening since I pay 400 a month for heath insurance for me and my daughter and it doesn't even cover everything 100%!
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
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Originally Posted by
michele11
^That's fucken sickening since I pay 400 a month for heath insurance for me and my daughter and it doesn't even cover everything 100%!
Everyone can get emergency medical treatment.
The thing is that some people don't pay. Illegal or otherwise.
In my humble opinion, comprehensive medical care should be a right regardless of whether a person is wealthy or poor. So many countries have this provision. It seems damn near barbaric that, in the USA, healthcare is a privilege.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
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Originally Posted by
Think!
No, you should not ignore 'stuff' you disagree with at all. But if your mission is to incite xenophobia by cutting and pasting articles instead of summarizing and making informed opinions about a subject, then it is problematic for many reasons. Melonie has a habit of cutting and pasting articles from other sources and presenting them as her opinions. Sometimes when I read her posts, I am not sure if they are her opinions, or if they are merely quotes from other sources. There is something called 'paraphrasing;' a skill that is worth developing and acquiring if your intention is to engage in a debate over a topic that you are passionate about. But from what I gather, Melonie is less interested in a debate than she is about presenting a one-sided view of an issue. Terms such as "immigrants" used as the heading of an article or a post are intended to exploit deep-seated fears and insecurities of people especially during an economic recession. Frankly, I find it morally and ethically repugnant. After all, aren't we all immigrants?
This is incredibly off base and unfair. Melonie makes it clear which are her opinions and what she has posted just to provide food for thought.
I am NOT an immigrant. I was born here. My father was born here. His ancestors immigrated LEGALLY. My mother and her family immigrated LEGALLY.
One of many problems with this latest Obama program is how to tell who is here through " no fault of their own " . There is no way to tell or verify who "qualifies" for this amnesty program. We have millions of phony I.D.'s being used now. Now we will see thousands of phony GED's and other stuff. Just how are we going to tell which is genuine ? How many more DHS workers are going to have to be hired to check out the bona fides of those seeking amnesty ?
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
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Originally Posted by
Sophia_Starina
Everyone can get emergency medical treatment.
The thing is that some people don't pay. Illegal or otherwise.
In my humble opinion, comprehensive medical care should be a right regardless of whether a person is wealthy or poor. So many countries have this provision. It seems damn near barbaric that, in the USA, healthcare is a privilege.
They're getting it FREE and I agree with your other statement very poor countries have socialized medicine.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bem401
Now you're on to geese and gander? You keep avoiding the topic. You dragged war veterans into the debate after declaring us all immigrants. Stick to the issue at hand. These people sneaked into the country to try to take advantage of the all-too-generous nanny state that presently exists here. You are doing everything possible to avoid discussing the fact that they are here illegally and should not be rewarded for being so.
Not at all. "Dragged?" Hardly. My point was quite clear. You made it as if 'government assistance' is bad in all cases and under all circumstances. I simply pointed out that it worked quite well for War Veterans as it should have. Note that I italicized the word 'government.' Most of you folks bash the government for being too big, inefficient, and unfair. And some from within the Tea Party take it even farther and accuse the government of being socialist. This is simply not true. Terms such as 'nanny state,' 'big government,' and 'illegal' are politically loaded terms that are deliberately used to draw attention away from the main causes of the economic downturn.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
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Originally Posted by
Eric Stoner
This is incredibly off base and unfair. Melonie makes it clear which are her opinions and what she has posted just to provide food for thought.
I beg to differ. I don't consider being bombarded by one article after another, mostly from sources such as the Washington Post, as 'food for thought.'
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
michele11
They're getting it FREE and I agree with your other statement very poor countries have socialized medicine.
Yes.
and.... No.
"DREAM Act students and their families are not immediately eligible for Supplemental Security Income, food stamps, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Medicaid (other than emergency care), and numerous other federal benefit programs."
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/jus...ream-act-myths
So technically, unless it is some emergency, free medical care isn't a given. Illegal immigrants have been utilizing that particular opportunity for a while. So in reality, it isn't much of a difference.
I just wanted to clarify that.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
michele11
They're getting it FREE and I agree with your other statement very poor countries have socialized medicine.
Those "very poor countries" you refer to are supplying inferior healthcare to that provided in America. Government involvement in healthcare will only decrease its quality. Outside of national defense, name one thing the federal government does very well. Do you really want your health care system run the way the DMV or school departments are? I would think not.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sophia_Starina
Yes.
and.... No.
"DREAM Act students and their families are not immediately eligible for Supplemental Security Income, food stamps, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Medicaid (other than emergency care), and numerous other federal benefit programs."
So technically, unless it is some emergency, free medical care isn't a given. Illegal immigrants have been utilizing that particular opportunity for a while. So in reality, it isn't much of a difference.
I just wanted to clarify that.
Oh melonie stated it was free.......
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bem401
Those "very poor countries" you refer to are supplying inferior healthcare to that provided in America. Government involvement in healthcare will only decrease its quality. Outside of national defense, name one thing the federal government does very well. Do you really want your health care system run the way the DMV or school departments are? I would think not.
Seriously? Cuba has had a long history of providing high quality healthcare. But you are right. Let's keep healthcare out of the hands of big government. God forbid we offer the forty million American who don't have health insurance, some that include dancers, healthcare coverage. That would be socialized medicine! And we don't want that now, do we? :O
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bem401
Those "very poor countries" you refer to are supplying inferior healthcare to that provided in America. Government involvement in healthcare will only decrease its quality. Outside of national defense, name one thing the federal government does very well. Do you really want your health care system run the way the DMV or school departments are? I would think not.
Give me a break, bem401.
I'm not even going to address the fallacy of government + medicine = DMV... or something along those lines.
Police, Fire, Library, Public Education entities do a pretty effective job. The DMV is a pain in the ass but it's better to deal with them on occasion than forego getting a license or ID.
Just like in medicine/healthcare... it's probably better to get treated for some awful injury than just "walk it off". Something is better than nothing. And NOTHING is what far too many Americans have. I'm talking about bonafide, legal, working class AMERICANS. That is Bull$#!%.
Here is a reddit thread discussing government run healthcare.... please, take a peek. http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/co...al_healthcare/
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Think!
I beg to differ. I don't consider being bombarded by one article after another, mostly from sources such as the Washington Post, as 'food for thought.'
Well at least we agree the Washington Post is hardly "food for thought", though seem to generally sing along with them.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Oh melonie stated it was free.......
more factual clarifications -
The implication of my (quote) 'free' ( unquote ) reference is that it is impossible for a hospital / clinic to collect an unpaid bill for medical treatment from an illegal alien who gives a false name, false address etc. Thus the medical care is 'free' to said illegal alien. It is not free to Americans who must subsidize these unpaid medical expenses via paying higher than necessary hospital / clinic bills for their own treatment, via paying higher than necessary health insurance premium costs etc.
Quote:
"DREAM Act students and their families are not immediately eligible for Supplemental Security Income, food stamps, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Medicaid (other than emergency care), and numerous other federal benefit programs."
They are if they become parents of a newborn child who is automatically a US citizen !
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sophia_Starina
I'm not even going to address the fallacy of government + medicine = DMV... or something along those lines.
Police, Fire, Library, Public Education entities do a pretty effective job.
Do you really want to cite the efficient operations of police, fire, and education systems as good reason to let the government control healthcare? I teach public school. The system is an unmitigated disaster for the students. What about the mail service? Look how efficiently that runs. The government does nothing as well as private industry. Nothing (national defense excluded obviously).
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Think!
Seriously? Cuba has had a long history of providing high quality healthcare. But you are right. Let's keep healthcare out of the hands of big government. God forbid we offer the forty million American who don't have health insurance, some that include dancers, healthcare coverage. That would be socialized medicine! And we don't want that now, do we? :O
Fucking aye! Pinko Communist CUBA! Arrrrrrgh! (sarcasm alert) j/k j/k j/k
They are actually training AMERICAN medical students.... for.... FREE!
Imagine that.
As long as the student is fluent in Spanish, qualifies for the requirements, and agrees to work with the poor (in their native country or elsewhere for a set period of time)... they get a full scholarship to the med school. After the student-turned-doctor pays their dues working with the poor or pro-bono, they are free to pursue what ever other path they choose.
I feel that bem401's assertion that "other countries supply inferior healthcare" is ridiculous.
There has been plenty of discussion regarding the nurse/doctor shortage in recent threads. I wonder why that could be the case? Maybe because we don't have a program similar to (I still giggle every time I say it) CUBA???
I urge bem401 to beware... your general practitioner may very well have studied medicine through one of these programs. Just keep that in mind.
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Re: Potential Impact On Dancers / College Girls re new Young 'Illegal Immigrants' Ord
How can we compare Cuba with approx. 11 million population with our 300 + million population. Add in a sprawling and inefficient government and it would be a complete disaster. What's wrong with allowing the states to handle public option healthcare?