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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
^^ Also keep in mind that in order to actually file 1099's the DJ / Housemom / Bouncers must be willing to provide you with their real names / LLC names, real addresses / LLC addresses, and SS#'s / TIN ! Without those the 1099 can't be filed.
There might be some good news on this front, though. While the 1099 requirement was already postponed from taking effect in 2012 until taking effect in 2013, right now in Washington tons of business lobbyists are campaigning to postpone ObamaCare provisions affecting businesses until 2014 ... and are having good success. But even assuming that the 1099 reporting requirement for independent contractor dancers 'disappears' for 2013 ( or better yet forever ) which will allow independent contractor dancers to continue 'undocumented' deduction of payments to DJ / Housemom / Bouncers as legitimate business expenses, this still does nothing to change the situation regarding non-deductibility of money paid by EMPLOYEE dancers to DJ / Housemom / Bouncers.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Let's just hope this employee status doesn't spread all over the country...
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arielbriel
Let's just hope this employee status doesn't spread all over the country...
It would not surprise me if that happened. But I know it would take awhile. It would be a good solution (for the clubs, NOT the girls I don't think), since soooo many girls want to dance these days and there is not enough customers and enough money. It would force the girls who REALLY enjoy doing dancing and REALLY want to be there, to succumb to becoming an employee, and it would eliminate all the girls who would not do so.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
The whole point of dancing is to not be an employee. Well maybe not everyone shares my viewpoint but I always thought that was the general consensus.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arielbriel
The whole point of dancing is to not be an employee. Well maybe not everyone shares my viewpoint but I always thought that was the general consensus.
agreed, if I wanted to be an employee I would waitress or bartend.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
^^^ actually, the drug tests etc. stem from an employer's vulnerability to being held legally liable for actions of employees ... both in the workplace, and in some circumstances outside the workplace. by 3rd parties. The weight / physical appearance standards stem from a Disney World and Bellagio defense against wrongful dismissal lawsuits brought by fired employees who held jobs where physical appearance was a major job qualification. SR is not inventing this stuff ... but they are undoubtedly being advised by their HR attorneys to 'cover their corporate a$$' regarding the establishment of employee dancer corporate policy.
As far as motivation, my guess is that it is state courts, state DOL's, and state tax agencies that are pushing for employee dancer status much harder than the clubowners are. They want full reporting of dancer income to collect maximum tax revenues. They want worker's comp and unemployment insurance premiums to be paid by the clubs into the state's insurance funds.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2 tons of fun
Them having so much more control is the scary part. Like weight already being a issue. In the new contract is says no more than 10lbs more than your current hire date. The hire date since your a employee. The contract has so many more rules that were unwritten but now will be enforced with termination hanging over your head. It says you will be drug tested, and cannot do drugs outside of work. Not that in against or for them but that is crazy.
clubs have been firing girls for being fat forever. not news. as far as drug testing, thats not outrageous either, there are laws that prevent employers from doing them too often etc. club paradise in lv breathalyzes their girls every night, thats a much bigger invasion of privacy and they arent employees there.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Doing a breathalyzer is not a invasion of privacy IMO. It is for their safety and to cover their ass. Not unreasonable with what happened with shauna miller.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Independent contractor dancers being fired for just about any reason is not news. Legally speaking, clubs engaging independent contractor dancers need not give a reason for terminating that engagement at any time. And independent contractor dancers have little available in the way of legal recourse aside from bringing major lawsuits in state courts.
However, once dancers become EMPLOYEES a whole set of legal protections come into play re 'employee' rights. One such 'right' is implied seniority, which means that employee dancers with a long work history should never be fired before other employee dancers with a shorter work history. Another such 'right' is explicit, that an employer cannot fire an employee solely on the basis of age. Another such 'right' is implicit, that an employer cannot fire an employee who has shown poor 'productivity' as long as that employee has not broken the law or violated employee workplace rules. Thus without creating a physical appearance standard / mimimum 'productivity' standard in the employer club's contract / workplace rules, SR would be leaving themselves wide open to 'wrongful dismissal' lawsuits from older, not very productive, overweight dancers !!!
Similar employee 'rights' exist regarding the firing of employee dancers who don't show up for their scheduled shifts. The 'employees with disabilities' act makes it extremely difficult for an employer to fire someone who has any sort of chronic health problem as a result of not showing up for scheduled work shifts ... disabilities which the gov't defines as anything from anxiety syndrome to substance abuse as well as conventional physical illness or injury. Thus without creating a minimum 30 hour per week workplace rule, SR would be leaving themselves wide open to 'wrongful dismissal' lawsuits along these lines. And unlike independent contractor dancers having to hire lawyers to bring lawsuits in state courts at great personal expense , employee dancers can effectively bring lawsuits via the state DOL ... which costs the employee dancer next to nothing, and also provides 'free' de-facto legal representation.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GlamourRouge
It would be a good solution (for the clubs, NOT the girls I don't think), since soooo many girls want to dance these days and there is not enough customers and enough money. It would force the girls who REALLY enjoy doing dancing and REALLY want to be there, to succumb to becoming an employee, and it would eliminate all the girls who would not do so.
Although see your point in this, I think it could be detrimental if lets say a girl who works as an employee at the SR decides to sample a shift here and there at another club. If SR finds out about this, they could fire her. I don't know what SR's rules are in regards to this now, but I know there are clubs out there that don't like it if a girl works at another club and would fire her if they found out.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Is there a special policy in the us about strippers? Here in Europe, in countries where strip clubs are legal, the stripper get the same legal aid as any other employee but much higher payments/ commissions. The fact is that here in the EU most of the clubs prefer to employ part time their dancers just to avoid paying the legal aid. :(
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
^^^ yes in the USA there are basically two different 'legal' and tax setups for dancers. Independent contractor ( self-employed ) dancers get no benefits, but also pay less in taxes. Admittedly, part of those tax savings may stem from a lack of reporting of how much total income the independent contractor dancer actually earned. Another part of those tax savings stems from a much broader array business expenses which can be legally deducted from their reported income.
Employee dancers get benefits, but they as well as their 'employer' club pay more taxes. This also probably leads to independent contractor clubs allowing dancers to 'keep' a higher percentage of the money those independent contractor dancers have earned, whereas 'employer' clubs must 'siphon off' money earned by employee dancers to pay for the unemployment, disability and health insurance coverage that 'employee' dancers get ( via paying out a lower percentage of customer dollars to the employee dancers ). Employee dancers also have ALL of their incomes reported to the gov't through their 'employer' club's payroll system, thus ALL of that income is taxed.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Thank you so much melonie. Do you think this will start a new trend with most clubs making dancers become employees.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
every single year at the beginning of the year my club tries to tell us that all these new fines and dance-cuts are because they are making us employees..and it NEVER happens! 3 years in a row now, or more. its just too expensive for them. im sure a lot of clubs will make their dancers employees or worse 1099 them, but i think there will always be "outlaw" culbs who never will.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
how is a 1099 worse? the most a club has reported on their 1099 was only 1/4 of what I actually made, usually its closer to 1/10th. 1099s have helped me get nicer apartments in competitive cities like la, ny, and sf, because some landlords just dont like the idea of not having any verifiable income. bank statements alone often dont cut it, 100% cash deposits scream prostitute or drug dealer, having a 1099 saying I was a consultant for 40k last year combined with additional deposits looks a lot more legit. I honestly don't know if ive worked at a club that doesn't 1099, ive gotten 1099s from most but im assuming the rest got lost in the mail or something.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Quote:
How come some club are having that option? How are we to claim negative $$ at the end of the night if it happens? It does happen especially in las vegas and I would be worried to have that written down at the end of our shift.
By the letter of the law, this can no longer happen. 'Employer' clubs are obligated to pay employee dancers $2.95 per hour for every hour they work. At the end of the week, 'employer' clubs are also obligated to pay each employee dancer enough 'other' money to bring their hourly average earnings for the week up to the $7.50 or whatever minimum wage. Even if a given employee dancer hasn't sold enough private dances or received enough tips to meet the $7.50 per hour average, the club still has to pay that much !
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by
charlotte.
how is a 1099 worse? the most a club has reported on their 1099 was only 1/4 of what I actually made, usually its closer to 1/10th. 1099s have helped me get nicer apartments in competitive cities like la, ny, and sf, because some landlords just dont like the idea of not having any verifiable income. bank statements alone often dont cut it, 100% cash deposits scream prostitute or drug dealer, having a 1099 saying I was a consultant for 40k last year combined with additional deposits looks a lot more legit. I honestly don't know if ive worked at a club that doesn't 1099, ive gotten 1099s from most but im assuming the rest got lost in the mail or something.
it really depends on the club, some put down everything you make besides stage money and tips guys give you after dances.which, for me, aren't a lot compared to the champagne rooms and dances i get. i wouldn't be worried if they didn't count dance money, but that's what would suck. plus my club acts like we are employees already without any benefits :(
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
The situation sucks because there is more girls than there is money than what it use to be...
but i dont think 1099's are that bad, you had a choice before to 1099 or not and smaller clubs are probably not going to 1099 you.
im sure it will all get figured out when 2014 rolls around. ^.^
what kind of makes me wonder is...if theyre going to have a limit on girls dancing for a club?
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by
simone87
it really depends on the club, some put down everything you make besides stage money and tips guys give you after dances.which, for me, aren't a lot compared to the champagne rooms and dances i get. i wouldn't be worried if they didn't count dance money, but that's what would suck. plus my club acts like we are employees already without any benefits :(
have you ever worked at a club that reported that much? I thought you said youve never gotten a 1099. they are very common all over the country and like I said before, ive gotten then from so many clubs and theyve never reported even half of what I actually made. I also worked at clubs that did it by vip dances (which were usually 50% of what we made) but if you asked the manager he would set you up on a flat rate system where only $30/day got reported. I have yet to have an issue with 1099s, I think they are a positive thing for us.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by
charlotte.
have you ever worked at a club that reported that much? I thought you said youve never gotten a 1099. they are very common all over the country and like I said before, ive gotten then from so many clubs and theyve never reported even half of what I actually made. I also worked at clubs that did it by vip dances (which were usually 50% of what we made) but if you asked the manager he would set you up on a flat rate system where only $30/day got reported. I have yet to have an issue with 1099s, I think they are a positive thing for us.
nooo i haven't, i would hate to be 1099ed or made an employee i think..i've just heard from others on here ( melonie i believe) that they CAN or legally SHOULD report every dance you do, every VIP, and then let you declare the stage tips. its its made a law or whatever. as employees, they would have to pay you the 2 bucks an hour, and then let you delcare everything else you made ( the bulk of your earnings from dances/stage/champagne) right?
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by
simone87
nooo i haven't, i would hate to be 1099ed or made an employee i think..i've just heard from others on here ( melonie i believe) that they CAN or legally SHOULD report every dance you do, every VIP, and then let you declare the stage tips. its its made a law or whatever. as employees, they would have to pay you the 2 bucks an hour, and then let you delcare everything else you made ( the bulk of your earnings from dances/stage/champagne) right?
no, they are only legally obligated to report money they paid you, so this usually translates to only funny money. every club does it differently, but like I said, ive never gotten a 1099 for more than 1/4 of the money I earned there.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
^^^ that situation may change for 'employee' dancers. Under an employee payroll system where every customer dollar spent on private dances / VIP is supposed to be run through the club's cash register ( so that the employee dancer's share of private dances / VIP can be included in the dancer's weekly paycheck thus the $7.50 per hour minimum wage calculation ) , and where employee dancers are supposed to turn over every dollar they earn in stage tips to the club ( so those tip dollars can also be included in the dancer's weekly paycheck thus the $7.50 per hour minimum wage calculation ), a much higher percentage of the total dollars the employee dancer is earning are going to be reported and taxed.
As Charlotte points out, in the case of independent contractor dancers, the club is only obligated to report via 1099 money which the club itself pays to the dancer directly. This typically means customer money charged to a credit card, customer money used to purchase 'funny money' that the club later redeems for cash, etc. Also, for independent contractor dancers, the club doesn't care a bit how much or how little an individual dancer earns. But for employee dancers, the employer club has a legal obligation to make sure that individual dancers are earning a $7.50 per hour minimum wage when their W2 is eventually issued. Also, the employer club and employee dancers are required by law to report dancers' tip income through the club's payroll system.
Of the handful of club's I'm familiar with that use the employee dancer structure, the 'favorite' earnings method for dancers has wound up being direct payments from customers to dancers in exchange for 'extras' performed in VIP. This is about the only customer money which the employer club doesn't account for / include in weekly paychecks / report to the IRS.
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
The hire packet includes 10 items. This is the packet given to all the dancers to complete.
1. Employment Application
2. Photocopies of all required cards (Drivers License, SSC, Sheriff Card, Tam Card, Health Card)
3. New Hire Sheet
4. W-4
5. I-9
6. Drug Testing Form
7. Unauthorized Hours Form
8. Scope Background Check
9. 401K Booklet
10. Acceptance of Employee Handbook
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Re: Spearmint rhino lv, dancers will be employees by july 1, 2013
^^^ well, the I9 citizenship / green card check will probably cut out a few competing dancers. Depending on where SR 'draws the line', the SCOPE background check will probably cut out more competing dancers.
I'm not sure what's up with the 'unauthorized hours' form. I assume that it is tied to the fact that the 'employer' club must pay minimum wage + worker's comp and unemployment insurance premiums for every hour worked by an employee dancer, and probably amounts to employee dancers NOT being allowed to work unscheduled days, not being allowed to keep working beyond the end of their scheduled shift, etc.
Also, if they are including an 'acceptance of employee handbook' form, it means that they intend to enforce whatever rules are included in that employee handbook.