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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Renton
Well she had an abortion, she wanted to keep it but her parents pressured her to get rid of it. Same way they also pressured her into blackmailing her ex. They actually had/have multiple lawsuits against members of their own family, all over extremely petty things. I really hated those parents ugh, they were awful to me too.
Not that I'm always that big on abortion but that seems like the best situation here. I fear though this girl is learning a horrible lesson from her parents.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Six
Male orgasm is not at all necessary to get a woman pregnant.
This I do know:) Kinda sucks when you think about it. So knocked up and no good memories to even hold on to as you hang your head over the toilet???
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Renton
Yeah you're right. She (together with her parents) actually went as far as to blackmail the guy and his parents to get money out of it. She was 15 at the time and he was already 18, they said that if they didn't pay her a couple thousand, they'd go to the police. They paid up. I felt bad for the guy...
Wow well I was 15 and had a 19 year old bf. When I look back at it now I think why the hell was this 19 year old college guy after fucking someone still in High School?? Ohh right college girls were not into dating a 5'5 guy with a 3.5 inch penis living at home with his parents. He needed someone young that would make him feel special for having a "system" in his car and umm well just having a car. lol
When I was 19 I flirted with some cute guy at work and later found out he was hiding his age . He was 16. When I found out I thought I was going to be sick. I avoided him like the plague and called him "jail bait". So if I can see something is off what was wrong with the guys my age??
That's the point. There isn't anything to gain from me fucking around with someone underage and risking my sanity and freedom for a romp. For men that have dick issues or feel they don't measure up to women their own age , they seek out the jailbait . I actually had men in their 30s and 40's hitting on me only to say umm " i'm 14 or umm I'm 15 16 17 and you know what?? Some would freak out , apologize and walk away. I admire them for their respect. The majority?? Their response? Age is just a number.. Really? I guess a few years of jail time isn't a big deal either right?? That's when the fear of "loss of freedom" hit their face and they seemed to move right along away from me.
As usual a child always seems to have to put a grown adult in their place. The reality of that sickens me.
When it comes to young girls their innocence is usually taken quite early. Either it's through media or some creepy old guy that tries to cross that boundary.
Still Renton it's a shame that 18yr old guy had to go through allof that but usually by that age most guys are carrying around that old "break in emergency" condom in their wallet that's probably dusty, old and doesn't even work. Still again he's the adult and should have protected himself. He not only fucked a 15 year old but also did so unprotected. Two wrongs don't make a right and in this case he really fucked himself all for what was probably 1.5 mins a fun.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cherryblossomsinspring
So a large head ripping through a woman's vagina doesn't entitle her to anything?? Geeze. Wow supporting your children sucks .lol
What I got from that video is
1. Dont have unprotected sex
2. Don't get knocked up
3. Don't cohabitate because why buy the milk if you're getting the cow for free
The video is true actually. I have to agree with everything up to the child support thing. Even if he's not married he's still going to have to pay. So I guess he should be wrapping things up. Then again it seems women are "buying" birth control instead of making it his financial responsibility. Since the burden falls on her shoulders in either case I guess spending $60 a month on shots is less than $300-$500 for an abortion.
Funny none of these costs of prevention seems to go to the person shooting out deadly tadpoles.
It's funny the other day my mother overheard a few guys talking about "this bitch + child support+.. They got quiet out of respect for her but she said " don't mind me remember you all seem to be into bareback dreams when obviously it's a nightmare". "Try putting a hood on next time and you will not have to bitch about the "bitch". "They humbly agreed:)
Go mom!
I agree, but also feel women have to step up and start being more responsible for themselves, their future, and the future of any kids they might have.
Don't want to have a loser baby-daddy, then don't sleep with someone until you know them really well. If not, be prepared for the possibility that you might get pregnant and then think through the consequences of an abortion or carrying it to term. I wish more women didn't feed into the bullshit about being able to do whatever they want with their sexuality without considering real-world consequences to that philosophy.
Sex can equal kids. Plan accordingly.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
I don't get why everyone is freaking out in this thread. The harsh reality (for some people), is that marriage does not work in our societal culture anymore. It made sense in the 1950s and before because...
1.) ...women were expected NOT to work, and by the time you got married, you had met every person you would ever meet in your lifetime, or for the most part. Technology isn't going to slow down anytime soon. Men and women still meet dozens of new potential partners each and every year, unlike in the old days. Of course one party is eventually going to stray or want to move on when there's so many other partners, hobbies, and career venues to explore than ever before.
2.) ...people lived like half as long or less than they live now. So it would make sense if you had kids at 30 and then died at 45. Now, if you have kids at 30 and die at 90, that's 60 years. Who agrees to stay with the same partner for 60 years? lol. Its not practical or realistic AT ALL.
And here's the thing. There is never a ~*perfect*~ time or perfect situation to have kids in. Here are basically the only 2 options for majority of women:
1.) Prolong having kids til later in life, and you fuck up your career (you WILL have to take time off- especially if you have complications) OR get lucky and only have to take off the 90 days post-birth and rush back to work while everyone calls you a bad mother. You wait around to have this fantasy perfect life, wait a bunch of years to find the perfect mate, but they its still likely it will end in divorce.
2.) Have kids earlier in life before your career, and they will also be out of the house sooner. You may have less resources at a younger age, but there are ways around this like sexwork.
Who cares if you stay with the father? If you want kids, chances are he's going to stray away at some point in your lifetime anyway. But is that really a bad thing, or are there underlying codependency issues here? You can find a new mate. With either option above, your significant other is likely to leave you in both cases, at some point. I doubt women have kids after 40, and certainly not after 45, because its unsafe and risky, but if the average human is living til 90, I highly doubt your husband is not going to have sex with another woman for the next 35 years. From what I've seen, the only people that DO stay married for decades either secretly cheat, or one party (usually the man but not always) lets himself go, gets fat, and is rude/mean/entitled like 24/7 and the other party merely just puts up with it because they ~*don't want to get divorced*~. You'd be surprised what goes on behind closed doors.
I personally never want to get married (eww @ mixing assets and bills), and if I do, I will go into it knowing it will end. I feel like, in today's technologically advanced world, having 1 partner forever will severely limit my ability to grow as a person. But I wouldn't mind a baby at some point in my life. I would actually rather raise it only my own, or primarily, anyway. But knowing that you likely won't be with the father for your entire life is realistic, not sad or horrible like many people think it is. Its reality in terms of how our culture and the world works these days.
Moral of the story: If you want kids, you can almost expect the father to not be with you forever. And the only other option is to never have kids, but many women want kids so... Deal with it. lol. Its not your life anyway.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cherryblossomsinspring
^ No I don't think "if they were pickier". It's not about men not being picky it comes down to protection. Put a hood on + pull out= problems solved. Condoms are cheaper than any other birth control method with the acception of masturbation. Seriously what guy walks around complaing about how he got someone pregnant and has to pay for what came out of his dick? It's no one's fault but his own.
Half of all babies born are unplanned, meaning an accident. That doesn't even factor in abortions. Birth control fails, and fails often. I swear that even on SW, dozens of girls have commented how they have gotten pregnant on birth control even with perfect use- many of them multiple times. And the show I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant wouldn't exist if birth control didn't fail, and fail to the point where you didn't even realize it failed.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
A friend of mine and I had a huge conversation about this recently. I was talking about my concerns for the future. He said he had no concern because women will being running this country in one or two generations.
He is the Head of a national organization. He processes all the applications, interviews, and hiring. He said 80% of all his applicants are college educated females. Most of males that do apply, seem to lack enthusiasm and effort. He has talked to colleges in other industries, namely in the fortune 500 companies, about this trend. The numbers are not as dramatic. But if you compare them to 10 years ago, in the same industry, it is a glaring shift.
I think the reasons given in the video are more sexist then they are accurate. safado's Two and a half men video is closer to the truth about relationships. But why are young men giving up on work and education? I dont have a clue. But it will make the future more interesting!
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GlamourRouge
Who cares if you stay with the father? If you want kids, chances are he's going to stray away at some point in your lifetime anyway. But is that really a bad thing, or are there underlying codependency issues here? You can find a new mate. With either option above, your significant other is likely to leave you in both cases, at some point. I doubt women have kids after 40, and certainly not after 45, because its unsafe and risky, but if the average human is living til 90, I highly doubt your husband is not going to have sex with another woman for the next 35 years. From what I've seen, the only people that DO stay married for decades either secretly cheat, or one party (usually the man but not always) lets himself go, gets fat, and is rude/mean/entitled like 24/7 and the other party merely just puts up with it because they ~*don't want to get divorced*~. You'd be surprised what goes on behind closed doors.
I personally never want to get married (eww @ mixing assets and bills), and if I do, I will go into it knowing it will end. I feel like, in today's technologically advanced world, having 1 partner forever will severely limit my ability to grow as a person. But I wouldn't mind a baby at some point in my life. I would actually rather raise it only my own, or primarily, anyway. But knowing that you likely won't be with the father for your entire life is realistic, not sad or horrible like many people think it is. Its reality in terms of how our culture and the world works these days.
Moral of the story: If you want kids, you can almost expect the father to not be with you forever. And the only other option is to never have kids, but many women want kids so... Deal with it. lol. Its not your life anyway.
Codependency is a problem; but being too independent is just as bad.
Maybe this is the problem for both sexes. We have traded one extreme for another. We not only have a hard time sharing a life together; we dont even want to share our money or stuff. We dont share a life within a relationship, because we already "know" what is going to happen. So we give up before it is begun. So why bother with relationships?
I have had and still struggle with this. I am a very independent woman. I never had a desire for kids, so there was no reason to get married. What kills relationships isnt any of those things. What kills relationship is 1) choosing the wrong partners and 2) having an unrealistic or defeatist expectations. Not all men cheat but alot of women refuse to believe it. If you assume he is going to cheat he will or he will get tired of the attitude. How many of us have been in the same situation with jealous men? It isnt any different.
People need to stop accepting everything as this is just how it is. They need to take responsibility for their own lives and realize they can change it. That takes work though. It is easier to settle.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GlamourRouge
I don't get why everyone is freaking out in this thread. The harsh reality (for some people), is that marriage does not work in our societal culture anymore. It made sense in the 1950s and before because...
1.) ...women were expected NOT to work, and by the time you got married, you had met every person you would ever meet in your lifetime, or for the most part. Technology isn't going to slow down anytime soon. Men and women still meet dozens of new potential partners each and every year, unlike in the old days. Of course one party is eventually going to stray or want to move on when there's so many other partners, hobbies, and career venues to explore than ever before.
2.) ...people lived like half as long or less than they live now. So it would make sense if you had kids at 30 and then died at 45. Now, if you have kids at 30 and die at 90, that's 60 years. Who agrees to stay with the same partner for 60 years? lol. Its not practical or realistic AT ALL.
And here's the thing. There is never a ~*perfect*~ time or perfect situation to have kids in. Here are basically the only 2 options for majority of women:
1.) Prolong having kids til later in life, and you fuck up your career (you WILL have to take time off- especially if you have complications) OR get lucky and only have to take off the 90 days post-birth and rush back to work while everyone calls you a bad mother. You wait around to have this fantasy perfect life, wait a bunch of years to find the perfect mate, but they its still likely it will end in divorce.
2.) Have kids earlier in life before your career, and they will also be out of the house sooner. You may have less resources at a younger age, but there are ways around this like sexwork.
Who cares if you stay with the father? If you want kids, chances are he's going to stray away at some point in your lifetime anyway. But is that really a bad thing, or are there underlying codependency issues here? You can find a new mate. With either option above, your significant other is likely to leave you in both cases, at some point. I doubt women have kids after 40, and certainly not after 45, because its unsafe and risky, but if the average human is living til 90, I highly doubt your husband is not going to have sex with another woman for the next 35 years. From what I've seen, the only people that DO stay married for decades either secretly cheat, or one party (usually the man but not always) lets himself go, gets fat, and is rude/mean/entitled like 24/7 and the other party merely just puts up with it because they ~*don't want to get divorced*~. You'd be surprised what goes on behind closed doors.
I personally never want to get married (eww @ mixing assets and bills), and if I do, I will go into it knowing it will end. I feel like, in today's technologically advanced world, having 1 partner forever will severely limit my ability to grow as a person. But I wouldn't mind a baby at some point in my life. I would actually rather raise it only my own, or primarily, anyway. But knowing that you likely won't be with the father for your entire life is realistic, not sad or horrible like many people think it is. Its reality in terms of how our culture and the world works these days.
Moral of the story: If you want kids, you can almost expect the father to not be with you forever. And the only other option is to never have kids, but many women want kids so... Deal with it. lol. Its not your life anyway.
Many women have babies in their 40's and the risks are not what they were originally thought to be. In fact from what I have seen the women having babies later are those who tend to be healthy. I don't think any unhealthy woman (or man for that matter)should have a kid no matter the age.
No I don't want people having babies they can't afford, because we all pay. Taxes keep going up to support all these kids and eventually what will happen is more and more towns going broke because they can't pay for these people. It's not just welfare, but crime and everything else. Yes I prefer a healthy educated 40 year old woman having kids over a 18 year old on welfare and no baby daddy.
Honestly I'm not sure where some get this idea that dads are irreplaceable and that they always cheat because that it's my history at all, nor is it the history of most I know. My parents have been married almost 45 years and no my dad hasn't cheated. He wouldn't even think of it.
Having said that I do agree with you about number 1 and women working. Women working has changed society, some say for the better, some say for the worse. In general I think women working has been a great thing actually and giving women the choices she has. She can leave an abusive cheater and rightfully so. Because of that people are waiting longer to get married which is good because people mature a lot during their 20's.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vamp
Codependency is a problem; but being too independent is just as bad.
Maybe this is the problem for both sexes. We have traded one extreme for another. We not only have a hard time sharing a life together; we dont even want to share our money or stuff. We dont share a life within a relationship, because we already "know" what is going to happen. So we give up before it is begun. So why bother with relationships?
I have had and still struggle with this. I am a very independent woman. I never had a desire for kids, so there was no reason to get married. What kills relationships isnt any of those things. What kills relationship is 1) choosing the wrong partners and 2) having an unrealistic or defeatist expectations. Not all men cheat but alot of women refuse to believe it. If you assume he is going to cheat he will or he will get tired of the attitude. How many of us have been in the same situation with jealous men? It isnt any different.
People need to stop accepting everything as this is just how it is. They need to take responsibility for their own lives and realize they can change it. That takes work though. It is easier to settle.
I am always stunned when I read so many stories here about never wanting marriage because "it ends" or some of the other things I read. In my world most people I know are still married. My parents are still married and both sets of grandparents were married "til death due them part".
I'm very independent myself which is why I have avoided marriage. While I know a lot of married couples many are definitely woman takes care of the man. This would never work for me. I would only marry in a situation where we both work and both take care of the house. Also, one of the reasons I will never marry a dad is because of my selfishness which I admit. I don't want to share my toys with a man who has other baggage. Simply put I built up a career and am not ruining it for a man. I still believe in love though and happily ever after.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vamp
A friend of mine and I had a huge conversation about this recently. I was talking about my concerns for the future. He said he had no concern because women will being running this country in one or two generations.
He is the Head of a national organization. He processes all the applications, interviews, and hiring. He said 80% of all his applicants are college educated females. Most of males that do apply, seem to lack enthusiasm and effort. He has talked to colleges in other industries, namely in the fortune 500 companies, about this trend. The numbers are not as dramatic. But if you compare them to 10 years ago, in the same industry, it is a glaring shift.
I think the reasons given in the video are more sexist then they are accurate. safado's Two and a half men video is closer to the truth about relationships. But why are young men giving up on work and education? I dont have a clue. But it will make the future more interesting!
Yeah, all of that is exactly what I am trying to say. Like... people are complaining that women aren't equal to men, but at the rate things have been going in the last 50 years, and even right now, things are pretty equal if not in favor of women at the point. After the older generation(s) die off, I truly believe it will be officially a female-dominated world. Its already pretty much like that for the younger generation. Aren't more women getting degrees and finding jobs these days than men? I think I read that somewhere as a statistic.
Young men are giving up because... they were once the hunters. They were once the dominators. And now, women kind of... are. The biological need (for men) to "hunt" and dominate should still be there, but it kind of... doesn't make sense in our world these days. So men don't really exercise it, and they kind of... forget how to. These days, women have good jobs, women are super educated, women often do the chasing. Women don't really... NEED men for anything like they did in the past. So men kind of... have no incentive and no direction when it comes to... accomplishing stuff. Obviously, this is a vast generalization, but I believe it really is the reason women have now surpassed men with things, at least in the younger generation.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GlamourRouge
Yeah, all of that is exactly what I am trying to say. Like... people are complaining that women are equal to men, but at the rate things have been going in the last 50 years, and even right now, things are pretty equal if not in favor of women at the point. After the older generation(s) die off, I truly believe it will be officially a female-dominated world. Its already pretty much like that for the younger generation. Aren't more women getting degrees and finding jobs these days than men? I think I read that these days.
Young men are giving because... they were once the hunters. They were once the dominators. And now, women kind of... are. The biological need (for men) to "hunt" and dominate should still be there, but it kind of... doesn't make sense in our world these days. So men don't really exercise it, and they kind of... forget how to. These days, women have good jobs, women are super educated, women often do the chasing. Women don't really... NEED men for anything like they did in the past. So men kind of... have no incentive and no direction when it comes to... accomplishing stuff. Obviously, this is a vast generalization, but I believe it really is the reason women have now surpassed men with things, at least in the younger generation.
And also men tend to be more reckless in lifestyle and actions. We go speeding, have unprotected sex, jump off cliffs, ride motorcycles, risk our lives killing spiders that pack enough poison to murk us, eat artery clogging delicious junk food, and our life expectancy is less. Also we kill each other, with guns, knives, bats, and even our bare hands. Pretty soon we will die off and women will take over the planet.
Okay that might be far fetched but hey it can happen. Our bodies are used and abused...at least I know mine is.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vamp
Maybe this is the problem for both sexes. We have traded one extreme for another.
I agree with that, and that's why I think its pretty much equal for both sexes now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vamp
We not only have a hard time sharing a life together; we dont even want to share our money or stuff. We dont share a life within a relationship, because we already "know" what is going to happen. So we give up before it is begun. So why bother with relationships?
Its about the experience, not the final result or destination. That is why its good to "bother" with relationships. Relationships are fun and teach you a lot, but its not about staying together forever as it is about having fun while its still working. There's only so many times you can try and make something work that just doesn't fit together anymore due to the rapid change that happens (because of our technologically-advanced world).
Its like people who go to school for degrees, with the only focus being on actually finishing the degree rather than enjoying and soaking in the information they learn along the way. At the risk of sounding judgmental, many people's priorities are in the wrong places.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vamp
Not all men cheat but alot of women refuse to believe it. If you assume he is going to cheat he will or he will get tired of the attitude. How many of us have been in the same situation with jealous men? It isnt any different.
I agree with this. Its inevitable that one party will cheat. So enjoy the ride. People need to stop focusing on perfection and being so paranoid that it interferes with the fun, personally fulfilling life they should be living. Its better to be realistic than to be naive and delusional. But at the same time, you can't stop bad things from happening, so there's no point in stressing over it (plus, Murphy's law will make your life into a new kind of hell lol).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vamp
People need to stop accepting everything as this is just how it is. They need to take responsibility for their own lives and realize they can change it. That takes work though. It is easier to settle.
Yes and no with this, IMO. People do, IMO, need to accept many things as how they are, or at least how they will be in THIS/their own lifetime. Change doesn't happen overnight. And anyway, even if change DOES happen overnight, half or most of the battle is getting other people to accept the change. And that just... doesn't happen. It takes whole generations to do that.
But yes, people can change their lives. You can control your own fate to an extent, and your happiness and fulfillment completely. But not other people's, societies', or the world's. Again, that takes generations. It takes decades to see results from past generations. I still feel like... our generation is still paying for the damage done by our parent's generation obsession with materialism and acquiring things. The world (or at least the teen generation), in reality, right now is in different place but society has not caught up. The youngest generation (teens) are always the ones that hold the keys.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kellydancer
Many women have babies in their 40's and the risks are not what they were originally thought to be. In fact from what I have seen the women having babies later are those who tend to be healthy.
I may get shit for this, but oh well. I still think its purposely selfish to have kids in your 40s (especially the latter half) because... you're basically at retirement age when your child hits 18. And then your child needs to like, care for you. You don't have physical energy in your 40s to care for a child in the same way that a 20-something could. And its very stressful on your body- not to mention all the crazy health risks for your baby (autism, schizophrenia, deformities, etc). There's a reason why a lot of women go through menopause in their 40s. Its your body's way of saying "i won't be able to carry a child anymore, its too much on me. you missed your window."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vamp
Honestly I'm not sure where some get this idea that dads are irreplaceable and that they always cheat because that it's my history at all, nor is it the history of most I know. My parents have been married almost 45 years and no my dad hasn't cheated. He wouldn't even think of it.
I don't think you can say that for sure. Being a sexworker (and not even an escort), I know that men sneak around their wives all the time and their wives have NO idea about it at all.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Well I think it's selfish to have kids when one can't support them without taxpayers. I'd rather see a 40 something woman who is healthy and educated and self supporting have a kid than a 20 something who is not stable and depends on tax payers. As for not having energy I know plenty of women in their 40's who are physically fit and some 20 something women who are not so this whole idea about energy and age isn't always correct. If someone is healthy and can support a child then they should have a baby if they want one but if they can't afford it or are ill then they shouldn't. As for retirement that is going up anyway so it is likely there will be people working in their 70's and even 80's anyway. There are many studies lately that state a man's age has a lot to do with the defects like mental illness and autism but only women are blamed for waiting too long. There are a lot of people who have kids for selfish reasons, including women who do so to keep a man or other reasons. If a woman is too old to have a kid naturally then she shouldn't go through the process to do so but it's not my place to tell her she is too old.
Incidentally my parents are 65 and 66 and they are still healthy. My dad even still works and works harder than most younger people I know. Most of their friends are as well. When people talk about unhealthy 60 something people I have to wonder because I don't know many unhealthy. My grandparents only started suffering in their 80's and so did their friends.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
I don't get why everyone is freaking out in this thread. The harsh reality (for some people), is that marriage does not work in our societal culture anymore. It made sense in the 1950s and before because...
1.) ...women were expected NOT to work, and by the time you got married, you had met every person you would ever meet in your lifetime, or for the most part. Technology isn't going to slow down anytime soon. Men and women still meet dozens of new potential partners each and every year, unlike in the old days. Of course one party is eventually going to stray or want to move on when there's so many other partners, hobbies, and career venues to explore than ever before.
2.) ...people lived like half as long or less than they live now. So it would make sense if you had kids at 30 and then died at 45. Now, if you have kids at 30 and die at 90, that's 60 years. Who agrees to stay with the same partner for 60 years? lol. Its not practical or realistic AT ALL.
I've hung back on making comments in this thread after my original post to see what the consensus of comments would be about. The 'author' of the original clip is a behavioral scientist, thus her conclusions were based on an analysis of 'real world' incentives and disincentives ...
Marriage -
- Indeed, at one time, the commitment to marriage had a major effect on the ability of many young men to have sex ... and certainly had a major effect on the 'social acceptance' of the partners and their children. Obviously, this is no longer the case.
- At a time when a vibrant US economy permitted single earner 'partnerships' to meet all necessary expenses, marriage offered major tax advantages. In today's economy, with both 'partners' necessarily working, there is no tax advantage and a tax DISadvantage in some cases.
- At one time, marriage / fidelity for life were taken seriously. Today, the vast majority of marriages ( as well as unmarried 'partnerships' ) will wind up split. However, the US legal system still operates on tenets stemming from the past, such that ex-husbands will wind up carrying a disproportionately high share of post-marriage costs but receiving disproportionately low post-marriage 'priveleges' i.e. custody, child visitation etc.
- At one time, potential employers viewed young married males as desirable employees due to their 'stability'. Today, potential employers view young married males as having the 'liability' of family obligations conflicting with work requirements ( i.e. long hours, work related travel ), as well as creating higher family health care benefit costs for the employer.
Jobs
- At one time, an unemployed young man faced real hardship ... social stigma, avoidance by young women, a real lack of food / clothing / shelter etc. Obviously, thanks to generous social welfare benefits in combination with a change in social views, this is no longer the case.
- At one time, young males were the preferred candidates for hiring due to employer's concerns that young females would quickly abandon jobs / careers to pursue the role of wife and mother. This is no longer the case either.
- Today, employers must accept de- facto mandates that women be given preferential hiring treatment over men ( to avoid sex discrimination claims )
- At one time, physically demanding jobs which paid well were a staple of the US economy and the primary niche for young men with limited education. However, stronger work safety regulations, in combination with automation, outsourcing etc. have eliminated a large number of such US jobs today. Also, many of those sort of US jobs that still exist have had wage levels depressed ( due to, among other things, illegal workers )
Education
- Today, the social welfare benefit eligibility 'threshold' and progressive income tax rates has created a 'dead zone' re earnings ... where the net effect of earning $20k vs $30k vs $40k per year produces little actual difference in standard of living. Thus putting forth the time and tuition money to obtain a $40k job now generates very little 'payback'.
- At one time young men with bachelor's degrees were virtually guaranteed job offers before they graduated. Today, thanks to a much higher level of young men having pursued bachelor's degrees, in combination with an 'overhang' of earlier college graduates with previous job experience who are unemployed, new graduates are lucky to find a job at all - let alone a job that is directly related to their major, as well as providing sufficient income to offset the tuition cost / student loan payments.
- The combination of rising tuition costs in combination with stagnant pay rates has now created a situation where, even if a young man with a fresh bachelor's / master's degree can obtain a $60k+ job, the burden of student loan payments plus rising income taxes may prevent him from saving / financially positioning himself to be able to buy a house or otherwise enjoy a higher standard of living for a decade or more.
I took the 'author's' larger point to be that people are not stupid ... that people will respond to new 'realities' and the resulting new incentives and disincentives ... and that an increasing number of today's young men are doing exactly that.
I would also point out that these developments could ( probably already ARE ) having a negative economic effect on our industry !
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
so how exactly do they survive with no job or education again? the marriage thing, yes i totally get..women are just as against marriage if not more nowdays. but welfare has been cut drastically from what it was in say, the 80s... i don't see anybody really making a good living off of it or even really surviving comfortably..especially without children for whom you are totally responsible for. i once checked it out, being pregnant, jobless, carless, and barely 19 and decided a minimum wage job was better than having to rely on welfare. they have made it almost impossible. i think the change in social views about unemployed people ( not just men) are because of the economy..and the education part applies to women as well
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
With welfare many do under the table jobs so this is why so many survive with it (not to mention some deal drugs and other illegal activities). However, I do think it's only a small percentage of men who think this way and refuse to support their kids (but unfortunately seems these losers have multiple baby mamas which I never understand).
For the other men though, especially the middle class and above I really question this idea that all of them don't want marriage. I have known even anti marriage men who did marry once they were ready and met the right person. I do think people in general are more careful about marriage and they should be. I know more women who never want marriage and have never married. They tend to be the more educated women who have successful careers and see marriage as old and sexist. A family friend wanted a baby but not marriage so she had a kid with her then boyfriend. They broke up a few years later having never married or even lived together but as far as I know he's in her kid's life. She has a great job and lives by the Obamas actually in Chicago and was never on welfare.
I don't know if this is common everywhere but I know many men in their 30's and above who still live at home and many work menial jobs. These aren't guys from poor families either, most are middle class and quite a few are upper middle class. Most don't have kids and yes some work jobs they are too old to do so. I know one guy who is 51 and apparently before him and his mom started a business he worked at the local convenience store into his 40's. When I was doing online dating came across even more of these guys. It's not that they are intentionally avoiding good jobs, it's that they don't have the skills for those jobs and there are very few of those jobs available anymore courtesy of outsourcing and visaed workers. Btw none of these guys are on welfare because it's very hard to get welfare unless you have kids and none of these guys have kids (and most will never get married or have kids simply because to many women they are undateable, especially to the more attractive, educated women).
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
simone87
so how exactly do they survive with no job or education again?
Its possible. More than possible. Most men I meet in their 20s (and many in their 30s!) fall into the categories below. They don't have much money, but they always have enough to make it. Here's how:
- Live with parents
- Live off parents (parents pay rent+bills or even trustfund)
- "Starving artist" lifestyle (living with lots of people in a small house or apartment, spending very little money, being frugal)
- Doing odd jobs to make a living, or being a freelancer here & there; Bartering; Buying things and reselling them for profit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
simone87
i don't see anybody really making a good living off of it or even really surviving comfortably..especially without children for whom you are totally responsible for.
I don't really think you NEED a lot of money just to make it. Especially if you live somewhere where the cost of living is cheap. You don't NEED electronics, expensive phone plans, eating out, brand new clothes, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
simone87
i think the change in social views about unemployed people ( not just men) are because of the economy..and the education part applies to women as well
I personally think its because society changed, and a lot of women are now able to and more eager to do the same jobs that men once did. Therefore leaving them kind of... feeling like they don't NEED to or HAVE to have that role in society.
I also think its because kids these days are raised to be very entitled and expectant, and then they get a rude awakening in their mid-20s when they realize everything they thought they were entitled to is not what they received (at least in the job department). Our parent's (or grandparent's) generation told ALL of us that all you needed was a degree and all of a sudden you would have the most amazing job with excellent pay.
We are apparently around the highest unemployment rate since 1983, but even then, things weren't this way in the 70s or 80s. Men actually worked and were expected to be the breadwinners for the most part. That doesn't make sense now. You can't expect a man to be the breadwinner (as a woman) when you yourself (as a woman) are expected to have your own successful career. That's why, even rich men these days want a woman with her own successful career. The bar is set quite high for women these days.
Also, good jobs used to only be for the ones who came from good families, because they were more likely to know people, or know how to get the job. These days, with the internet, anyone can find out how to do anything. Anyone can get any job now. Its all about effort and innovation. Men just aren't as motivated as women (at least in the career department) for some reason. Maybe its because women were once really repressed in that area, so now we go into overdrive to make up for it.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
I do think the entitlement attitude is prevalent with people in their early 20's to early 30's. Part of the whole "everyone is a winner" mentality. Older people my age and up were told that not everyone would win and deal with it. I remember when I was a kid we had these track and field events in grad school and 1st, 2nd and 3rd got ribbons. Normally every year I won at leas tone ribbon (I was athletic)but one year I didn't and my parents told me to suck it up (likely not the exact words). They didn't fight my battles. Today's kids though would have all gotten a ribbon. This is why so many come to work and think they deserve a private room and to be boss because they think they deserve it.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
omg im totally going lesbian if men start thinking they dont have to work..not supporting a fully grown man lol, i think both parties should have their own lives/means of income/work..but i also think the economy hasn't been too kind to women either, hence the influx of adult workers who, before, never would have dreamed of it! its like the combination of too many sex workers, and people who don't have the jobs they used to.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
simone87
not saying a man should have to be the sole breadwinner ( many women don't even want that, at all. i've met some who want their husband to stay home with the kids and let them have the job..they kind of fight over it lol) but a man has to have SOME kind of job..not necessarily a 4 year degree but SOMETHING. UNLESS parents/gfs are willing to support them..and that's just kinda sad. if that happens, im going lesbian lol..im not supporting a grown ass man lol
That wasn't directed at you. I just say you a lot, because the only other option is to talk my "chinese philosophy and religion" teacher from college who would always say "one" instead of "you" and it was kinda awkward. "One must not want that, one must strive for what one wants" and stuff like that. Lol. I feel weird writing like that.
I agree through, with a man has to have some kind of job. Not even SOME kind of job, but a job in a career field that either pays well or one he loves. It must be full time, and more than enough to support himself. I've dated men who didn't have this, and at the end of the day, there just wasn't enough money. They COULD take a job that supports themselves better, but many don't.
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
I don't understand these men who do this, to be honest because there are a lot of them. Not to sound depressing and cynical but I meet very few men with college degrees anymore. The ones I meet of course are all married usually (or are gay)and the men who seem to be dating are men who don't have good careers which I don't get. I wouldn't have a problem being the sole breadwinner as long as they do the cooking and cleaning but most of these men don't do much when living with their parents, and often their parents cater to them. My parents best friend's son comes to mind. He is 31 and expects his mom to clean up after him and fix dinner. Who would marry someone like him?
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Re: 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
simone87
omg im totally going lesbian if men start thinking they dont have to work..not supporting a fully grown man lol, i think both parties should have their own lives/means of income/work..but i also think the economy hasn't been too kind to women either, hence the influx of adult workers who, before, never would have dreamed of it! its like the combination of too many sex workers, and people who don't have the jobs they used to.
The economy has been rough for everyone and many of these men were blue collar workers who saw their jobs disappear and will never reappear. I get this and this part scares me. Definitely reminds me of the sex industry and how there are women who shouldn't even be dancing or other sex jobs sharing space with others and less money for all.