-
Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
for what it' worth - from
(snip)"in the latest example that Europe is increasingly formalizing a regime of implicit capital controls, we learn that Italy has just ordered banks to withhold a 20% tax on all inbound wire transfers: a decree which on top of everything will apply retroactively to February 1. As Il Sole reports, "the deductions will be automatic (unless prior request for exclusion), and then it will be up to the taxpayer to prove that the money is not in the nature of compensation "income." In other words, as of this moment, but really starting two weeks ago, all Italians are money launderers unless proven innocent.
Some more details on Italy's latest decision to limit capital flows into the country, Google translated:
... the collection is the result of the decision to consider any transfer from abroad and directed to an individual Italian, as a component of taxable income, subject to proof to the contrary, which must be date the taxpayer receives the sum on your account. However, the first payments to the Treasury by intermediaries (mainly banks) will be performed July 16, so that the deemed payment accrued from February 1 until June 30 (and therefore set aside and with interest). Next, you will pay the withholding every 16th of the month following the effective perception of the sum. In fact, all taxpayers who receive a transfer from abroad on their personal account - and not professional or business - will be applied to the deduction, as an advance which will then be computed in the annual tax return.
What Italy appears to be focusing on are direct income payments where individuals get compensation via bank transfer. Of course, since the tax is superceding, good luck to any Italian citizen explaining the origin of every inbound money transfer and it is in accordance with the law. `
It is, therefore, a real "held" that will not be applied only in the case where the taxpayer proves that the amount received or quenched and does not have a connotation income but only and exclusively sheet: for example, the transfer incoming could be a return of a loan made in the past, or the return of a deposit, the date for the conduct of a house leased abroad.
Reasoning aside, what Italy just did is enforce a "shotgun" withholding tax on all inbound money:
The mechanism that provides a primary role to the bank official that is to receive the declaration of the taxpayer and evaluate it. In any case, you make the deduction or not, the name of the recipient will be reported by the bank Revenue Agency. And the taxpayer has until February 28 of the year following the year of the deduction to attest to the improper application of withholding tax to the bank and ask for a refund.(snip)
The obvious take-away is that any Italian camgirls who receive payment from webcam hosts / payment processors located outside of Italy will now have 20% of their 'incoming' money frozen by their Italian bank. To get any of this money 'unfrozen', Italian camgirls will need to file tax returns showing that their actual income warrants something less than a 20% effective Italian income tax rate. Failing to file a tax return will result in the 'frozen' 20% being forfeited to the Italian gov't, as well as a potential tax investigation.
The not so obvious take-away is that there are already huge complaints from Italian banks and the Italian gov't that depositors are already withdrawing funds from Italian banks like crazy, and moving them to new accounts in other Eurozone ( or tax haven ) countries, in order to avoid this new 20% 'automatic withholding tax' by their Italian bank. While nothing can be done to prevent this money from flowing to tax haven countries, as a member of the Eurozone there IS something that can be done to prevent this Italian money from moving to other Eurozone countries ... i.e. bringing pressure to bear in Brussels that would force ALL Eurozone countries to enact a similar 20% 'withholding' on deposited / transferred money that originates outside each Eurozone country's borders.
Enacting Eurozone-wide 20% 'withholding' would remove the incentive for Italians to establish bank accounts in neighboring Eurozone countries, and would also increase tax revenues for all of the Eurozone countries themselves. Thus I have to believe that the possibility of 20% 'withholding' also being put into effect by other Eurozone countries is pretty high. As such, Eurozone camgirls might want to think about exploring bank account options outside their home country ( Switzerland, channel islands ? ) while they still can.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
I live in Italy and this is SO relevant to me. Thank you!
I just woke up but googled a few articles on the matter that I'll read later.
Tax evasion in Italy is umh, kinda wild.
Wire transfers are my preferred payment option (I wish foreign checks worked over here, but I tried a few times and are annoying: my banks kept me 1 hour last time to cash back a C4S check because they don't know how to do it, crazy! It's a service they say thay offer on the site in their central bank, and the only way to get it is to put it directly in my bank account by waiting up to 2 months.
Payoneer global transfer thing on big $ sumn it has around the same fees than a wire transfer so is only convenient with smaller chunks. Which is still a direct transfer between banks, no? So it would apply the same regulations as wire transfers I guess.
So I just wait to have a fat payout, wire fess are kinda pricey).
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
Thank you, Melonie. I didn't know about that.
all Italians are money launderers unless proven innocent
...I don't like this kind of things. Not in a country where you pay high taxes in change of nothing, because nothing works as it's supposed to be. I'm going to move abroad soon anyway, so I don't even know if this will affect me personally. I will gladly pay my taxes to another country.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
I'm thinking of moving to Italy in the not too distant future so thanks so much for flagging this up. I'd also be really interested to hear from Italian cam-girls in general (about internet etc) if anyone can help please pm :)
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
Whiteheat, can you give more details about Payoneer? I'm going to start to use it as soon as I receive my card... I though it was the best options. The fees should be lower than with wire transfer, but you says it's pretty much the same?
Also, I'd like to know if the 20% withhold applies to Payoneer...
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
For all of you who are living in Italy or considering to move there:
Italy uses the Euro as a currency. You can easily set up a bank account in France or Austria or any other Eurozone country for that matter and make cash withdrawals at Italian ATMs. Make sure you check out the fees for ATM withdrawals in a foreign country (i.e. Italy from the perspective of your French/Austrian bank). They should be minor or zero, especially if you choose a big multinational bank. You can open accounts at most banks by simply filling out on online form and identyfying yourself once in person. That's why I chose France and Austria as examples, because they are neighbouring Italy to the North.
Keep in mind, though: many countries within the European Union (EU) have taxation treaties which include the option for the country of your residence to get all bank account information of your account in another country. Check this out before you go ahead. This is not a panacea, it might not be useful to dodge income taxes... which you absolutely must not do anyway ::) But it might be a method to avoid the withholding tax.
Edit: Also keep in mind that Italy has strict rules on the use of cash. Check these out, too.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
^^^ from my read of the translations of news reports, the new Italian 20% 'withholding' tax will apply to ANY moneys being brought from a source outside of Italy into an Italian bank account. This presumably covers bank to bank wire transfers from banks outside Italy, presumably covers checks drawn on banks outside Italy, presumably covers direct deposits to Italian bank accounts where the funds originate from outside Italy etc.
Obviously this new Italian 20% 'withholding' tax is a brand new issue, thus it will take some time for payment processors to 'react'.
The potentially just as serious new issue, of course, is that the fact that individual Italians are receiving significant sums of money from outside the country is now being 'monitored' by Italian banks. The translated news blurb states that the Italian banks must now start informing the Italian gov't of the identities of all depositors receiving money from outside the country along with the amounts being 'withheld' for each individual. It doesn't constitute much of a 'reach' to speculate what the Italian gov't might do as a result of receiving this information ( reference earlier comment about Italian tax evasion ).
Quote:
You can easily set up a bank account in France or Austria or any other Eurozone country for that matter and make cash withdrawals at Italian ATMs.
This would circumvent the 20% withholding by Italian banks, PROVIDED that the French or Austrian bank you are using does NOT have branches within Italy, and provided that the ATM transaction is therefore 'international'. This is exactly what the Italian banks and gov't are now complaining about in regard to 'middle class' Italians moving their banking to adjacent Eurozone countries. If the French or Austrian bank does have a branch in Italy, however, it's very possible that the Italian branch will be required to 'divert' 20% of your ATM transaction amount to a 'withholding' account at the Italian branch, before allowing the remaining 80% to puke out of the Italian ATM. This possibility can be easily circumvented if the Italian resident is in a position to travel to France or Austria on a regular basis, and personally bringing cash withdrawn from the French or Austrian bank account back across the Italian border. Of course, depending on where in Italy the person resides, this could mean anything from a 15 minute bus ride to an all day journey.
Uber-rich Italians, in contrast, are moving their money to banks in Singapore, the UK Channel Islands etc. to not only avoid the 20% Italian bank 'withholding' in the short term, but to also avoid the expected Eurozone-wide bank 'withholding' that is likely to soon follow. Or put another way, if the Italian gov't is successful in Brussels, within a few months the French or Austrian bank may be 'freezing' 20% of cross-border money entering their countries ... which would potentially result in an even worse situation for an Italian resident than having a Italian bank 'freeze' 20% of cross-border money.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
RedFairy I was talking about a Payoneer option not using the card to withdrawal or paying in stores, I haven't been using the Payoneer card in years. The transfer fee is super low but theres also the Mastercard % exchange rate -or something- to take into consideration (unless you are paying in $ like on a US based online site i.e.), so if you withdrawal or use the card in stores the fees adding up are way higher than getting a wire transfer especially in the long run. Unless you really need the payout in your hands asap and you didnt earn alot in this case is just stupid to pay 40$ (so is pretty much around 50$ when you get in your bank account) every week for just a few hundreds.
So I'd rather wait till I have like $5000 to get my payout and pay the annoying wire transfer fee once, but its just me...
we can talk via PM since is not really thread related. I suggest to check the Payoneer thread(s) they are very informative and you can ask anything to Nissim about it.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
^^^ I'm hoping that Nissim has some info as to how Payoneer plans to deal with this new Italian bank 20% withholding issue.
Quote:
I'd rather wait till I have like $5000 to get my payout and pay the annoying wire transfer fee once, but its just me...
I'd obviously be less worried about a $50 currency exchange and wire transfer fee, versus your Italian bank 'freezing' $1000 worth of your $5000 payout more or less permanently ... with the Italian tax man then likely to come looking to collect even more !!! It would appear that Italy's 'self-employment' tax rate is at least 17% ... with at least another 23% in 'income' tax rate piled on top. And 'permanent residents' of Italy owe this tax on income earned both within and outside Italy. See
Obviously, up until now, income tax reporting by 'self-employed' persons receiving income from a source outside Italy pretty much followed the 'kinda wild' description. The new gov't regulations re Italian bank withholding and automatic reporting to the Italian gov't are going to abruptly change that !!!
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
Melonie, thanks for all of your extremely useful posts across this site. My brain totally says "business guru speaking" every time I see your username on a thread. :)
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
^^^ I don't claim to be a guru. But I did spend years in Manhattan club VIP rooms hanging out with guys who WERE !!! Also, down here in my Caribbean 'retirement home', I run across even more guys with useful business info ... they come down here 50% for vacation, but the other 50% to make personal deposits in their 'tax haven' bank accounts !!! I also had years of experience with my own Swiss bank account, until the IRS / US State Dep't forced the Swiss to start reporting financial details on US citizen Swiss bank accounts to the IRS !
This new Italian law establishing mandatory 'withholding' and gov't reporting on foreign funds transfers essentially accomplishes the same result as the US pressure on all foreign banks to generate 1099 automatic reports to the IRS reporting foreign earnings of US residents. The difference of course is that US residents have already become accustomed to being forced to report and pay taxes on their self-employed income ( domestic or foreign ). Europeans are not. Thus in real world terms, for Italian camgirls accustomed to 'kinda wild' income reporting and tax payments, this new law may represent a 40% cut in 'take home' camming income if the Italian banks immediately 'grab' 20% before the Italian camgirl ever gets her hands on her money, and the Italian tax man uses the bank reports as the basis to come looking for another 20% !!!
And thanks to Italian gov't pressure in Brussels to counteract the massive withdrawls from Italian banks and establishment of new accounts by Italians in neighboring Eurozone countries to ( temporarily ) bypass the new 20% 'withholding', there is a fair chance that this sort of automatic 'withholding' and gov't reporting will quickly spread to other Eurozone countries as well !!!
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
^^^ I'm hoping that Nissim has some info as to how Payoneer plans to deal with this new Italian bank 20% withholding issue.
I'd obviously be less worried about a $50 currency exchange and wire transfer fee, versus your Italian bank 'freezing' $1000 worth of your $5000 payout more or less permanently ... with the Italian tax man then likely to come looking to collect even more !!! It would appear that Italy's 'self-employment' tax rate is at least 17% ... with at least another 23% in 'income' tax rate piled on top.
Yes tax rate + this 20% is a crazy amount.
I should talk to my accountant anyway, but if I understood corrently, in short, the only people exempt from this 20% freezing are the one claiming that their money is not income money (*not* camgirls case!), right?
Also:
few hours ago came out this article (in Italian)
http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/notiz...l?uuid=ABxlFjx
"Foreigh bank transfers, Tresury suspends the 20% witholding"
!
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
deleted re-post, iphone typing sorry!
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
It is it just me, or is this just *insane* from an economic perspective? Why on earth would a country choose to fight tax evasion by imposing a massive blanket disincentive on exports? It seems obvious that it'd lose the country a lot more money than it would gain the government.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
^^^ big corporations will probably be able to claim an 'exemption' from the 20% withholding mandate ... based on the premise that raw sales revenues do NOT constitute 100% income. And if big corporations have problems with this, they can similarly route their foreign transactions through a 'tax haven' country bank account the way that Apple, Google etc. already do.
The only Italians who are going to have a serious 'problem' with the new 20% withholding mandate are Italian small businesses and Italian individuals.
As to the total tax rate in Italy, a 50%+ 'official' tax rate is not unusual for many Eurozone countries. France made the news recently when it enacted a maximum tax rate of 75% !!! However, the other 'reality' for many Eurozone countries is that lying about income / cheating on taxes has been widespread and commonplace for years ... because the gov'ts didn't have very many 3rd party financial information sources available to easily 'prove' that incomes were being under-reported thus taxes under-paid. This will now change in a big way for Italians receiving income from outside the country, as Italian banks can now provide that 3rd party automatic reporting.
It now appears that Italy ( and presumably other Eurozone countries ) are learning from America's efforts re Swiss Bank disclosures for American account holders, from America's forcing non-US based businesses to issue 1099 income reports to the US IRS reporting the foreign earnings of Americans, etc. While the Italian gov't doesn't have the international clout to force non-Italian businesses to make automatic income reports of payments made to Italians, it can accomplish the same end result by forcing Italian banks to report ( and withhold 20% in 'estimated tax payments' ) on all money coming into the country.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
Quote:
Also:
few hours ago came out this article (in Italian)
"Foreigh bank transfers, Tresury suspends the 20% witholding"
Applying a translator to your link yields the following update ... see
today the Italian gov't put a stop to the 20% mandatory withholding plan, and the Italian banks will release any 'frozen' money
Instead, thanks to intervention in Brussels, the Italian gov't will attempt to address tax evasion via unreported foreign income by instituting EuroZone countries + USA + other countries automatic financial information sharing. One can only assume that these automatic financial information sharing arrangements will be reciprocal.
Thus, by next year, camgirls in all Eurozone countries are likely to face a situation analogous to that which already exists for US camgirl 1099 reporting, i.e. an adult webcam host located in Eurozone county Cyprus or in the USA issuing automatic reports to the Eurozone camgirl's home country tax agency that the camgirl was paid X Euros / US Dollars from that 'foreign' source.
Certain pundits would point out that the 20% withholding requirement was primarily instituted as a way to focus Eurozone attention on the issue of tax evasion via lack of 3rd party reporting. Obviously, fellow Eurozone countries France and Germany were already 'keen' on this issue, based on their earlier 'onslaughts' of Swiss / Lichtenstein banks. Forcing Eurozone wide income report generation by the 'payer' companies effectively solves both the Swiss / Lichtenstein bank problem and the tax evasion problem at the same time ... because with 'payer' automatic reporting of income to individual Eurozone country tax agencies, taxes can be collected even if the foreign source income managed to find its way into a 'tax haven' country bank account.
This issue now bears watching like a proverbial 'hawk'. It's one thing to face a 50% 'official' tax rate that nobody really has to pay. It's another thing to face a 50% 'official' tax rate with effective 3rd party financial information reporting and aggressive enforcement by individual country tax agencies.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
Thank you Melonie and everyone for this great thread. I am in the (long) process of applying for Italian citizenship (dual citizenship-I'm a US citizen), and this sure is interesting. Italians always find a way around cumbersome financial and govt policies, so I won't be surprised if this is short-lived or a loophole is discovered pretty quickly. Interesting stuff!
Eta just saw your latest post, Melonie. I will watch like a hawk, too.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
^^^ indeed individual Italians already discovered a 'loophole' ... moving their accounts to neighboring France, Austria etc. This put a 'world of hurt' on the Italian banks, who were unprepared for the resulting massive withdrawls by depositors, and undoubtedly contributed to the Italian gov'ts rescinding of the mandatory 20% withholding law. But the Italian gov't ( and German, French etc. gov'ts ) also come out 'winners' too, by setting the wheels in motion for future automatic reporting of Italian, French, German etc. citizen incomes by the 'payer' companies to the Italian, French, German etc. tax agencies.
Also, as a California Camgirl, you're not a stranger to 1099 automatic reports of payments from 'foreign' webcam hosts being reported to the US IRS and Cal Franchise Tax Board ... resulting in you being required to report those 'foreign' webcam host payments as taxable income, and resulting in you being required to pay a 30%+ combined tax rate on that 'foreign' income. This sort of future automatic income reporting is likely to come as a 'shock' to Eurozone camgirls ... as will the even higher Eurozone tax rates !
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
I'll just throw this out there as an option: When I lived in Italy I had no problem accessing money from my American banks through Italian ATMs. There were fees, of course, but I didn't have to go through the rigamarole of obtaining a codice fiscale (tax number) to open a bank acct there. No one seemed to know or care, and I liked my money being off the grid and away from their system. I still paid my taxes so all was good. Just have a lot of cash on you in case-cash is king there.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
^^^ that works great for people residing in a Eurozone country that actually have US citizenship, plus have travelled to the USA to open that US bank account. As you alluded to by mentioning 'codice fiscale', with the international anti-money laundering laws that are already in place it is now a rather difficult task ( Eurozone citizens and other Eurozone country banks excepted ) for a non-citizen to open a new bank account.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
well, this didn't take long ...
As this now potentially affects girls living in all Eurozone / OECD countries, I started a new thread in the Industry Insight forum
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
Wow, that sucks. I was in Tirol area last year and everything was kinda pricy in all 3 countries (Switzerland, Austria, and Italy).
If I was an Italian model, I would move out to Tirol area for short drive into Austria or Switzerland for banks. Switzerland uses Frans currency, though.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
Wow, that sucks. I was in Tirol area last year and everything was kinda pricy in all 3 countries (Switzerland, Austria, and Italy).
If I was an Italian model, I would move out close to Tirol area for short drive into Austria or Switzerland for banks. Switzerland uses Frans currency, though.
-
Re: Any Italian Camgirls ? - Italy enacts 20% 'withholding' on money entering country
Austria and Switzerland will no longer offer any 'protection' under this new automatic payment / income agreement between all OECD countries !!!! Current OECD member countries are ...
AUSTRALIA , AUSTRIA , BELGIUM, CANADA, CHILE, CZECH REPUBLIC, DENMARK, ESTONIA, FINLAND, FRANCE, GERMANY, GREECE, HUNGARY, ICELAND, IRELAND, ISRAEL, ITALY, JAPAN, KOREA, LUXEMBOURG, MEXICO, NETHERLANDS, NEW ZEALAND, NORWAY, POLAND, PORTUGAL, SLOVAK REPUBLIC, SLOVENIA, SPAIN, SWEDEN, SWITZERLAND, TURKEY, UNITED KINGDOM, UNITED STATES
Additionally, Brussels is bringing pressure to bear to include non-OECD member Eurozone countries into this information sharing agreement as well.
... thus if this new OECD / EuroZone financial information reporting / sharing agreement is fully implemented, if you are receiving payments from a business located within any of these member countries, and if you live in a different member country, your home country tax agency is going to start receiving automatic reports of payments made to you.