Canadian Strippers.new prostitution law, how do you feel?
this week my podcasts topics, one includes legalizing the sex work in canada (though it is not in effect yet and they are looking to still yet make it illegal I understand) If it does go into effect, as a stripper how do you feel about the change? I Know in America there are a lot of extras going on already, not sure how I would feel about the legalazation thing. Will those girls who do extras just leave to go to establishments for sex? or will the strip game get harder? What do YOU think! thanks :)
Re: Canadian Strippers.new prostitution law, how do you feel?
discussed in a number of previous threads ...
The scariest potential 'unintended consequence' of legalized prostitution, as already experienced in Germany, involves prostitution becoming a '100% legal' occupation ... which in turn makes prostitutes eligible for the same gov't / worker benefits as any other citizen working at a different 100% legal occupation. In Germany, providing legal prostitutes with unemployment insurance benefits also resulted in a scenario where long term unemployed German girls faced a situation of accepting the now '100% legal' offer of a job working as a prostitute, or having their unemployment benefits terminated if they refused. If a similar 'equal treatment' scenario were to develop in Canada, it could mean that a steady stream of hot but unemployed teachers, factory workers, waitresses, you name it, could suddenly become 'competition'. I can also already imagine the 'hoopla' resulting from future high school job fairs ... where the owners of newly legal 'brothels' can legally set up pre-graduation 'job interviews' with high school girls !
As thoroughly discussed in those older threads, perhaps the change that will have the greatest effect on the existing Canadian strip club industry will be a clear split between fully licensed clubs / brothels with fully licensed dancers / prostitutes that are legally able to offer customers anything their hearts desire, versus non licensed clubs and non licensed dancers who will suddenly come under vastly increased scrutiny by Canadian LE ( at the behest of their fully licensed competitor clubs ) such that today's 'extras' offerings will become a thing of the past - i.e. zero contact suddenly being heavily enforced in non licensed clubs. This 'all or nothing' split in the Canadian strip club business model, and the resulting 'redistribution' of Canadian club customer dollars, is likely to cause profound changes in Canadian dancer earnings potential.
Obviously, legalized prostitution, and the probable decision of some 80+ % of Canadian strip club owners to obtain the necessary licenses to legally offer sex for money in their clubs, will also force the vast majority of Canadian dancers to decide whether or not they want to go on the public record ( via the required licenses and testing ) as having worked as a prostitute in order to continue working as dancers.
Re: Canadian Strippers.new prostitution law, how do you feel?
Mel thank you so much for this!!!! Can i quote your opinion on my podcast? If I can what name, or refference would you like me to use.
Re: Canadian Strippers.new prostitution law, how do you feel?
^^^ sure, quote away. Everything I do 'professionally' has been under the name Melonie Charm ... including my pre-Canadian visa ban dancing in Canadian clubs !
Also can you forward a link to this podcast so I can check it out ?
Re: Canadian Strippers.new prostitution law, how do you feel?
I don't think that thing about German women losing benefits for turning down prostitution jobs is true. I remember reading an article about it, couldn't find it, but I did find this on snopes...
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp
I also found this quote from a rueters article, although the article itself wouldn't work from my phone.
"A spokesman for the Federal Labour Office said that if job seekers said they were prepared to work as, for example, dancers in strip bars, advisers could put them in touch with any suitable employers, but vacancies would not be displayed in job centres.He also stressed job centres would not look for prostitutes on behalf of brothels, nor offer sex industry jobs to people who hadn’t specifically mentioned it as an area of interest."
Re: Canadian Strippers.new prostitution law, how do you feel?
Actually, the German incident DID happen as initially reported. However, in response to the public outrage raised by the widespread news coverage of the initial incident, the German parliament quickly passed a new law specifically exempting prostitutes from the state unemployment system. While this new law meant that additional unemployed German girls would not have their unemployment checks threatened if they refused to work as prostitutes, it also meant that 100% legal prostitutes were no longer entitled to state unemployment benefits should they become unemployed.
And the purported true reason that the topic rose to the level of press coverage that it did ... by exempting prostitutes from the German unemployment system, it also exempted German brothel owners from having to pay premiums to the German unemployment system which all other German 'employers' must pay.
The larger point, of course, is that there are always 'unintended consequences' when changes as far reaching as legalized prostitution are concerned. In the case of German prostitutes, the final result was legal but NOT EQUAL ... German prostitutes must pay the same taxes as other German workers, but do not receive the same benefits ( because their 'employer' brothel owners do not have to pay the same taxes as other German employers ).
A somewhat similar situation ( that is as of yet unresolved ) is a claim by Dutch prostitutes that they should be entitled to the same state retirement benefits provided to professional athletes. The logic goes as follows ... because Dutch professional athletes have short careers with very high earnings potential, and as a result pay incredibly high tax rates during those limited number of years, the Dutch state retirement system uses a different formula for calculating their retirement benefits than it does for average workers whose earnings are much lower but whose careers last much longer. Dutch prostitutes claim that their own careers are similarly short, and their earnings thus taxes are similarly incredibly high, thus they should also be entitled to use the different formula for calculating their own state retirement benefits.
However, based on experience in Germany and Holland, the most striking 'unintended consequence' may come from the Canadian gov't / LE. Before the Canadian Supreme Court ruling, prostitution was considered a 'victimless crime' of little consequence. Outside of a few local situations, in general the Canadian gov't / LE had essentially nothing to gain by devoting resources to investigating and prosecuting acts of prostitution. And no Canadian private parties of any political or economic significance had a reason to confront the Canadian gov't / LE over their laxity in enforcing prostitution laws.
Now that prostitution is legal in Canada ( well, at the end of the 1 year transition period ), regulation of this new legal industry will provide a whole bunch of new gov't jobs. And those jobs will be funded by the relatively stiff licensing fees collected from strip clubs / brothels and prostitutes / dancers. As such, both the Canadian gov't which is collecting the license fees, and the strip clubs / brothels and prostitutes / dancers who will have to pay the stiff license fees, will both have a big stake in seeing that any remaining non-licensed strip clubs and non-licensed dancers are not allowed to escape the license fees as well as effectively compete with licensed clubs / dancers by ( illegally ) offering any form of sex for money.
This situation will be somewhat similar to that which currently exists in regard to, say, an individual operating a taxi service without the appropriate licenses, a garbage removal service attempting to operate without the appropriate licenses, even a 'doctor' attempting to practice without the appropriate license, etc. You simply never see such businesses ... because both the gov't and the fully licensed competing businesses have a financial stake in seeing such unlicensed 'competition' immediately shut down.
As such, it is highly probable that non-licensed strip clubs and non-licensed dancers will start receiving a high degree of attention from Canadian LE ... to the point where any form of direct dancer to customer contact is likely to result in a bust for unlicensed prostitution. Thus prostitution itself will no longer be a 'criminal' issue ... but a 'regulatory' issue if done while failing to pay the required license fees. Nonetheless, the de-facto 'penalties under the law' are likely to be quite harsh.
Re: Canadian Strippers.new prostitution law, how do you feel?
Melonie, or anyone really, could you clarify something for me. I'm a dancer now and obviously i keep everything i make. I was reading in another post how you said "Canadian dancers to offer 'extras' to customers, and also 100% legal for the clubowners to profit from 'extras' being offered inside the club." how would this work and how would it be different from bartenders? a bartender sells a beer to a customer, the club profit from the beer and the bartender keeps the tip for herself. so if i were working in a licensed club…would the customer "buy" me then that money goes to the club owner and i keep the "tip"?
also thanks for all your insight on the topic your posts sparked my own interest in educating myself further on these legislative changes that i was otherwise ignorant to following
TY!
Re: Canadian Strippers.new prostitution law, how do you feel?
Quote:
how would this work and how would it be different from bartenders? a bartender sells a beer to a customer, the club profit from the beer and the bartender keeps the tip for herself. so if i were working in a licensed club…would the customer "buy" me then that money goes to the club owner and i keep the "tip
This is impossible to answer accurately given the limited amount of info available today. However, in every legal setup I have ever heard of, the 'house' gets a significant 'cut' of the customer's money. Often the customers are offered a 'menu' of sexual services to choose from, with listed prices ... with the 'house' actually conducting the business transaction with the customer, and with the 'house' subsequently paying out a set 'sales commission' to the girl at the end of the night / week based on the specific sexual services she provided to that customer.
Keep in mind that if / when sexual services in exchange for money are 100% legal there is no longer a need for a separate 'secret' transaction for sexual services between dancer and customer in addition to the basic private dance / VIP room transaction. Also keep in mind that the 'price range' for sexual services in an upscale brothel setting is likely to be fairly high ... thus credit card transactions are likely to take place much more often ... thus the 'house's credit card merchant account is needed to process those high dollar customer credit card transactions ( which would typically exceed daily ATM cash withdrawl limits ). After the 'transition' takes place, any moneys directly changing hands between dancers and customers will probably truly 'just' be tips ... because they will no longer include the cost of the sexual services as an implied component of the dancer's so-called tip. Note that this will be a fundamental change from the present setup, where club customers essentially pay directly to dancers the cost of any sexual services provided. This present 'secret' transaction for the cost of sexual services taking place without the club's 'official' knowledge ... thus allowing the dancer to be able to keep 100% of the customer money paid for sexual services as an implied part of her so-called tip ... won't / can't continue in a fully licensed club.
Also, major 'unknowns' revolve around what percentage of Canadian clubs actually decide to go the licensed route ... thus, indirectly, how many dancers / prostitutes decide / are forced to go the licensed route. It is a fairly obvious business conclusion that, given the club's necessary additional investment in the license fees and the private bedroom VIP setups, the club is going to expect that every dancer still working at the club after the 'transition' takes place is going to be willing to provide any club customer with most ( if not all ) of the sexual services offered on the club 'menu'. Also, the Canadian gov't is almost certainly going to require every girl still working in a licensed club / brothel to obtain a prostitute's license. Thus any dancers presently working at clubs which do become licensed are likely to face a dilemma to either become a licensed prostitute or work somewhere else.
For clubs and dancers that decide NOT to go the licensed route, which will likely be forced to operate as much 'cleaner' clubs than today's lax LE presently permits after the 'transition' takes place, it actually remains to be seen whether or not 'contact' private dances and / or 'fully private' VIP rooms will still be permitted. Again, both the gov't and the licensed clubs will have a direct vested interest in seeing to it that unlicensed clubs and dancers are NOT allowed to ( continue to ) profit from sexual contact being offered to customers without the necessary licenses being obtained and paid for. And, arguably, contact private dances and 'unsupervised' VIP room contact could both fall in the category of activities regulated by the gov't under legalized prostitution which will require a prostitute's license. If the percentage of Canadian clubs and dancers who choose NOT to go the licensed route is significant, and if non-licensed clubs are forced to operate with a much 'cleaner' business model, it also remains to be seen whether club customer spending will continue at a level sufficient to allow non-licensed clubs to financially 'survive'. It further remains to be seen whether, in the probable absence of private dances and VIP's as they exist today, there is still enough dancer income potential available to justify continuing to work as a 'clean' dancer.
As stated in earlier threads, my guess would be that 70-80% of Canadian clubs thus dancers will be forced to go the licensed route. Non-licensed 'clean' clubs are likely to migrate as far upscale as possible to maximize revenues i.e. a show club business model ... and will probably only be economically viable in larger cities where the total 'strip club economy' is large enough to sustain several clubs ( i.e. maybe 3-4 licensed 'sex' clubs for every one upscale 'clean' unlicensed show club ). Smaller Canadian cities where the total 'strip club economy' is too small to sustain more than one or two clubs probably cannot provide enough customer dollars for a 'clean' unlicensed club to financially survive.
There is little question that, for fully licensed clubs / brothels and dancers / prostitutes, the 'transition' is going to provide sustained or increased earnings potential. Right now, some number of potential Canadian customers still 'shy away' from Canadian strip clubs. This may be due to the low but non-zero risk of club bust damaging their reputation. This may be due to a fear of STD's since, at present, Canadian dancers offering sexual contact aren't required to undergo regular testing. This may be due to uncertainty in regard to what type / level of sexual contact the customer will actually receive from a given Canadian dancer in exchange for their money. All of these reservations go away after the 'transition' takes place. Thus it's probable that the total pool of customer dollars being spent will increase after the 'transition', with licensed clubs and dancers benefitting from that increased customer spending ( in exchange for actually providing the expected sexual services, of course ). It's also possible that after the 'transition', some of the increased customer spending at licensed strip clubs / brothels will also come at the expense of reduced spending on 'escorts', because licensed strip clubs / brothels and dancers / prostitutes will be able to remove some customer costs from the equation ( transportation, room, individual security etc. ) thus offering customers the same 'bang' for fewer total 'bucks' ... but that' a topic for a different thread.
Thus the largest question mark will probably involve the 'remaining' earnings opportunities for Canadian dancers who choose NOT to go the licensed prostitute route after the 'transition' takes place. Undoubtedly, there will be upscale 'clean' clubs in all major Canadian cities that will continue to provide earnings opportunities for a 'few' dancers who don't wish to go the licensed prostitute route. However, with a probable huge surplus in the number of 'clean' dancers to choose from, in a scenario much like that which presently exists in Manhattan, the hiring standards for such upscale 'clean' Canadian big city show clubs is likely to become very high. Thus for many Canadian dancers who don't choose to go the licensed prostitute route, who don't live in a big Canadian city, or who can't 'measure up' to the elevated hiring standards of the upscale 'clean' big city show clubs, the 'transition' to legalized prostitution may very well also force them to transition to different line of work !!! Also, It's possible that unlicensed clubs in smallish Canadian cities, as well as a few clubs in major Canadian cities, will try to offer a less upscale 'nude dancers behind the bar' zero contact business model. But based on somewhat similar attempts by some clubs in certain US states, the probable earnings potential for unlicensed dancers working in such non-upscale zero contact clubs is likely to be disappointingly low.
The second largest question mark will probably stem from future Canadian gov't, straight job employer, friends and family etc. reactions to Canadian dancers that do choose to obtain prostitute's licenses as a matter of public record. From a purely theoretical standpoint, as a 100% legal 'profession', negative repurcussions should be minimal. Also, in theory, negative 'moral' judgments should be minimal in a 'liberal' country like Canada. However, as the German legalized prostitution experience exemplified, the 'real world' reaction may wind up being different from the theoretical. Thus girls who do choose to go the fully licensed route immediately as part of the 'transition' will in effect be rolling the dice because any future 'real world' negative consequences won't actually be known for some time to come !!!