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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
ushar
I almost always pay, or offer to pay, for any date, but I still find the above mildly offensive! A man who wants to split the bill is a cheapo, but a woman who wants to pay absolute zero is what? Merely old-fashioned? I find it somewhat disturbing this is the predominant view on any board in the 21st century! I feel sad for the loss of that younger, "too nice" girl. If a guy not offering to pay says a lot about him, it also works the other way.
I've certainly dated women where it was obvious they expected me to pay. I've also dated women who at least offered to pay their share, or even for the entire meal. Such acts are definitely appreciated, even as they're declined. I'm attracted to strong women, and that extends to their morals. As a man, I want to feel depended upon. But I also don't want a dependent as a partner. To me, there's quite a distinction.
Well, the "cheapo" I was referring to, was the first boyfriend I ever had. Every time we went on a date, I was the one who had to pay, and not only for myself but also for him. Otherwise, we didn't go on dates. In the 7 months we had been together, he paid for 2 dates. One, during the whole date he was complaining about how long he had to save to afford to take me out that I even felt guilty he was paying and did not enioy the date, he did not tip the wait staff either. It wasn't even an expensive restaurant or anything. The second one, it was on my birthday, he took me to the movies on the day of the $5 special. LOL Oh and he also complained a lot about the fact that I was always working, cared too much about money, am a gold digger and was only with him for his money (LOL) when we finally had a discussion about that, it was ludicrous. Then when we broke up he complained about some $20 I owe him for something I don't even remember and asked me to reimburse him the amounts he had spent on me hahaha. On top of that, he was an asshole and selfish in bed. I was young and didn't know better.
Were a little off-topic but now, whenever I meet a guy who expects me to pay for him or split the bill, it just reminds me of that loser and I cross them off my list.
I am very independent, wanting a guy to pay for the first few dates does not make me a woman who needs to be taken care of, or a "dependent partner".
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
xStacey
Well, the "cheapo" I was referring to, was the first boyfriend I ever had. Every time we went on a date, I was the one who had to pay, and not only for myself but also for him. Otherwise, we didn't go on dates. In the 7 months we had been together, he paid for 2 dates. One, during the whole date he was complaining about how long he had to save to afford to take me out that I even felt guilty he was paying and did not enioy the date, he did not tip the wait staff either. It wasn't even an expensive restaurant or anything. The second one, it was on my birthday, he took me to the movies on the day of the $5 special. LOL Oh and he also complained a lot about the fact that I was always working, cared too much about money, am a gold digger and was only with him for his money (LOL) when we finally had a discussion about that, it was ludicrous. Then when we broke up he complained about some $20 I owe him for something I don't even remember and asked me to reimburse him the amounts he had spent on me hahaha. On top of that, he was an asshole and selfish in bed. I was young and didn't know better.
I retract what I said. That guy certainly sounds like a cheapo! lol
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
XStacy, that sounds like a few guys I dated. In one case the guy felt bad he couldn't spend more but he was a dad and giving most of his check to his ex (and why I'll never date dads again among other reasons). The other guys were guys that just didn't want to spend money. One of the guys I dated once but the other two for longer. In hindsight I feel stupid for having dated these losers.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
Where are all these modern women with 21st century attitudes asking men out and paying for the date. Equality and all that we keep hearing about.
I have no problem paying for dates with someone I asked on one. If I hit it off with someone and a few dates in things aren't getting weird or whatever then I will start taking her to nicer places and be happy to pay for it. If I can't see myself with someone over a beer, coffee or mini golf type date then no point going much beyond that.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
invibe
Where are all these modern women with 21st century attitudes asking men out and paying for the date. Equality and all that we keep hearing about.
I agree with "who asks, pays." But, in terms of your question, let's be real - how many women actually do any of the asking? I've asked quite a few times, and always either paid or had the intention of paying. Sometimes the guy will insist on paying anyway, and I'm always very grateful and make it known that I'm grateful for it and that it truly wasn't my intention to "wrangle him" into paying.
If a guy asks me out, I do usually offer up money for my half, just to be polite. But honestly, I still go by the "who asks, pays" line of thought, so I do expect my money to be turned down. I'll still give it if it's accepted, but I won't look highly upon the person taking it.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
I've always offered to split on first dates & at this point if a guy takes me up on it I probably wouldn't see him again. It's only happened a few times but whenever I have gone dutch on a first date the guys have proven to be less gentlemanly in other ways also and/or generally boring.
Post first date I have no problem splitting or taking turns...it's really only a first date issue for me.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
^^ I feel this is sort of unfair and manipulative. Why even offer? I always just smile and thank them for their generosity. That usually takes care of it simply without much fanfare.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
I have asked men out and expect to pay but rarely do they allow it. However, I've had men ask me out then expect me to pay for them. I never dated them again.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
Men should always pay for the first date :)
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
Seeing as I let men ask me out for the first date, I expect them to pay. Beyond that, I think it should be who asks, pays. Or at least go Dutch. There are times the guy may insist on paying, and there are times when I insist on paying. It all balances out, but the first bill is for the man in my book. It doesn't have to be fancy. Some of my best first dates are making food and staying in, but I still expect him to cover the groceries.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
invibe
Where are all these modern women with 21st century attitudes asking men out and paying for the date. Equality and all that we keep hearing about.
I cannot and will not speak for other women, but I personally don't - and never have - aspired to be "equal" with men. At least not in the sense you're speaking of.
️I love being a woman. As a woman, I am very different from a man. There are things I can do he can't, and vice versa. I bask in my feminine glory. All I desire is equal pay for doing the same exact job with the some exact qualifications (or better) than my male counterparts, non-discriminatory access to BC of my choosing, to be in charge and in control of my reproductive organs, and to be treated as an equal as a HUMAN BEING vs less than because I have a vagina. I think that's fair, and shouldn't even be up for debate. Wanting the option of a choice and to be seen as human is nothing to resent. And I question the motives of men who automatically resort to this type of argument to prove why women need to pay halfsies, and what not. Not saying you personally, but from experience many guys who share this ideology tend to be chauvinistic in their thinking, and see women as their competition. Like I said, idk if that's your intent - but that's just how I have experienced it before.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
The_Ecdysiast
....but from experience many guys who share this ideology tend to be chauvinistic in their thinking, and see women as their competition. .
I think that's a little unfair. I see women as equals, and so expect them to pull their weight in society, in the workplace, and in relationships. By definition, that's the opposite of chauvinistic. Although, I think some men do pull the equality card when it suits them and ignore it when it doesn't, so that may be what you're alluding to. However, I'd never assume that if I were you.
My expecting women to live up to 21st century expectations doesn't stop me from adopting a gentlemanly manner when out on a date though. I only remember one time when I haven't paid 100% for the first date, and the woman I was with that one time was adamant that she pay. For the entire meal mind, not just her half. I was blown away. I did pick up the tab for the fun earlier in the day, so that may be why she insisted. Or maybe she just didn't want me to think she was a money-grubber.
I don't think either gender should go into a first date with any other expectation than their date being punctual.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
Work is different. You can't compare work with romance. Whether women get paid the same as men or not, men should NEVER stop being men. Open doors, pull out chairs, pay the tabs. Your role as a man is to protect us ladies.
If a guy ever asked me to go dutch, I'm fkn walking out on him.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
It's funny how so many time is spent on trivial matters like this. Who cares about paying? Just go and have fun somewhere.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
Imho, men should pay for every date, unless the woman specifies that it is her treat.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Vackra
^^ I feel this is sort of unfair and manipulative. Why even offer? I always just smile and thank them for their generosity. That usually takes care of it simply without much fanfare.
I don't feel this is manipulative. I personally offer because it's polite to offer. I feel it would be rude to assume and act like some guy was automatically going to pay for me - that doesn't mean that I can't still find it personally distasteful if it turns out he didn't want to pay for me. I can live by the idea that if you asked me out, you should have expected, and be willing, to pay for the whole deal, while realizing that that's not going to actually apply to every guy who asks me out. I can be polite about handling it, because it's not something to make a scene over, but also not necessarily want to see him again.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Vyanka
Work is different. You can't compare work with romance. Whether women get paid the same as men or not, men should NEVER stop being men. Open doors, pull out chairs, pay the tabs. Your role as a man is to protect us ladies.
Says who? Traditionally it was a woman's role to care for home and husband. Obviously we're intent on breaking that tradition. Would you not be offended if I said women should NEVER stop being women: look sexy, cook dinner, clean the house; your role as a woman is to please us men? Of course you would! Cuz that's some sexist shit!
When you use that argument with other people, do they ever counter by saying "so you want to have your cake and eat it too"?
Yes, romance is somewhat different and chivalry isn't completely dead. Our perceptions of romance and how each gender should behave is always changing though.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
ushar
Says who? Traditionally it was a woman's role to care for home and husband. Obviously we're intent on breaking that tradition. Would you not be offended if I said women should NEVER stop being women: look sexy, cook dinner, clean the house; your role as a woman is to please us men? Of course you would! Cuz that's some sexist shit!
When you use that argument with other people, do they ever counter by saying "so you want to have your cake and eat it too"?
Yes, romance is somewhat different and chivalry isn't completely dead. Our perceptions of romance and how each gender should behave is always changing though.
I get what you're saying but there is a problem that women work full time, sometimes even make more than their husband yet are often expected to do the majority of the cooking and cleaning.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Vyanka
Your role as a man is to protect us ladies..
Err what? Lady, we're not in caveman times anymore. That line of thinking was relevant then, it is not now.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Kellydancer
I get what you're saying but there is a problem that women work full time, sometimes even make more than their husband yet are often expected to do the majority of the cooking and cleaning.
Yep, I get that and that's a problem. But as men become more and more expected to pitch in with the cooking and cleaning, so too will women be expected to pitch in financially as they become the breadwinners. That's the direction we're moving anyway (yes, we aren't there yet). Gender roles are becoming centralized. In some ways that's a good thing. But obviously many women on here still expect the man to pick up the tab on dates. That's a gender role that may be eroding as well. Is that good or bad?
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
^^Umm yes it is relevant, men should protect women they are with or care for. Now if the man is a huge douch I guess he would just sit there and let people fuck with her/treat her bad and not do anything about it but any man raised correctly would realize he is genetically stronger and should defend her should she need it, women still face violence and are the target to some.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Kellydancer
I get what you're saying but there is a problem that women work full time, sometimes even make more than their husband yet are often expected to do the majority of the cooking and cleaning.
I have encountered this line of thought a lot, but one thing I learned is to set up the habit immediately in the relationship (well...I guess immediately when you move in together) of doing things like after eating saying "Let's clean this up then we can xyz" or proposing making Saturday "house cleaning day" so you both clean and get it done quicker. Usually do your own laundry, etc. Don't try to impress someone by cleaning all the time at the start because, let's be honest, everyone enjoys a clean house, but not many enjoy cleaning, so you don't want your SO to get into the habit of not having to do it.
Just some random thoughts (: My mom and I do a lot of talking about her not wanting me to end up in a situation like she did where she wanted to be the "perfect" girl and so did all the work on top of a full-time job, and now, years later, she's still working on getting the housework divided equally again. My dad actually got to the point where he wouldn't even take his dish from the table to the sink anymore, so my mom stopped cleaning them up and just stacked a new plate on top of the old at dinner because he always promised to help but never did. It took about a week until my brother (a little kid then) asked, "Dad, why don't you ever clean your stuff?" for him to realize he didn't want his son growing up expecting women to do all the work. It's been a lot better since.
I think if the expectation is equal work from the get go, it'll make the relationship more equal for the long run.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
SexedUpCat
My dad actually got to the point where he wouldn't even take his dish from the table to the sink anymore, so my mom stopped cleaning them up and just stacked a new plate on top of the old at dinner....
Are you serious? That's hilarious! Way to get the point across mom. :thumbsup:
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
I definitely believe in equality when it comes to households. There is no way I'm going to do most of the cooking and cleaning unless he is making most of the money. That likely will not be the case so I will not clean up after him.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Kellydancer
I definitely believe in equality when it comes to households. There is no way I'm going to do most of the cooking and cleaning unless he is making most of the money. That likely will not be the case so I will not clean up after him.
Just be careful picking and choosing where you believe in equality. Otherwise it's easy for someone to accuse you of hypocrisy.
However, the example you gave makes perfect sense. There's never going to be a perfect 50/50 household chores and 50/50 financial contribution, so the person lacking in one should pick up the slack in the other.