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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
ushar
Just be careful picking and choosing where you believe in equality. Otherwise it's easy for someone to accuse you of hypocrisy.
However, the example you gave makes perfect sense. There's never going to be a perfect 50/50 household chores and 50/50 financial contribution, so the person lacking in one should pick up the slack in the other.
Oh I believe in equality through and through. Earlier I mentioned that I believe the person who asks should pay though most men insist on paying. I do think there can be 50/50 in both though but often seems someone gets screwed. For example my brother makes the money (he's a doctor in the army)yet still does the majority of the cooking and a lot of the cleaning.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Kellydancer
Oh I believe in equality through and through. Earlier I mentioned that I believe the person who asks should pay though most men insist on paying. I do think there can be 50/50 in both though but often seems someone gets screwed. For example my brother makes the money (he's a doctor in the army)yet still does the majority of the cooking and a lot of the cleaning.
I think that's called winning the jackpot.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
My earlier comment was a joke, I thought the sarcasm was obvious.
Some women say "equality" with a dozen different personal qualifiers they pick and choose. Men know this, we don't hold it against them but it is fun to point it out to give them a hard time.
Many men expect to pay on at least the first few dates don't they? If a woman started getting really pushy about wanting to pay beyond a polite offer I would think that is weird. So the tradition is probably safe lol.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
ushar
Says who? Traditionally it was a woman's role to care for home and husband. Obviously we're intent on breaking that tradition. Would you not be offended if I said women should NEVER stop being women: look sexy, cook dinner, clean the house; your role as a woman is to please us men? Of course you would! Cuz that's some sexist shit!
When you use that argument with other people, do they ever counter by saying "so you want to have your cake and eat it too"?
Yes, romance is somewhat different and chivalry isn't completely dead. Our perceptions of romance and how each gender should behave is always changing though.
It is not sexist at all. It's always been like that. Men looking out for women. I'm so glad I haven't met a guy (douche) who expected me to go dutch on a 1st date. Lol. I would laugh in his face and be offended.
Wow. Seriously.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
devil_himself
Err what? Lady, we're not in caveman times anymore. That line of thinking was relevant then, it is not now.
It's what GENTLEMEN do. ;)
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
oh, god the whole equality thing and paying on the first date..well, the thing is..we aren't equal yet, not in society's eyes. so until then, i appreciate a man paying on the first date. i also don't see why a man wouldn't WANT to pay if he's actually interested in you. there is such a thing as being equal, but not being the same. men and women are different, yet equal in their value as humans.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
simone87
oh, god the whole equality thing and paying on the first date..well, the thing is..we aren't equal yet, not in society's eyes. so until then, i appreciate a man paying on the first date. i also don't see why a man wouldn't WANT to pay if he's actually interested in you. there is such a thing as being equal, but not being the same. men and women are different, yet equal in their value as humans.
I think almost all men would pay if they were interested, yes. And even if they weren't interested, I'd think quite a few would still do the courtesy. And that last bit hits the nail on the head!
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Vackra
^^ I feel this is sort of unfair and manipulative. Why even offer? I always just smile and thank them for their generosity. That usually takes care of it simply without much fanfare.
Well it's hardly my goal to set someone up for failure. I also think it's rude to completely assume someone else will pay for you. And it's not like I really fight over the check. But usually when the check comes I'll start to pull out my wallet at the same time he does his, and typically he'll tell me not to worry about it and I say thanks.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
When my husband and I were poor college students we would split up the check, our take turns paying. I didn't have those expectations because I knew we were both short on money. Now being married and our money total is half mine, it still doesn't matter. I enjoyed my time with him when we were dating and I still enjoy when we have the time to go on a date.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
" there is such a thing as being equal, but not being the same. men and women are different, yet equal in their value as humans."
THIS. The exact point I was trying to make. We are different, but are both worthy of equal respect because that's the proper thing to do out of human decency. That's what I personally mean in wanting to be "equal" to men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
simone87
oh, god the whole equality thing and paying on the first date..well, the thing is..we aren't equal yet, not in society's eyes. so until then, i appreciate a man paying on the first date. i also don't see why a man wouldn't WANT to pay if he's actually interested in you. there is such a thing as being equal, but not being the same. men and women are different, yet equal in their value as humans.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Sam38g
Problem is once they taste my cooking they don't want to fuck anymore.
Now, I have become very picky about who I cook for these days.
Sam
Cooking lasts. Be happy to find someone who has his priorities in the proper order.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
Whoever asks should pay. If I say "Let's go to the movies", I'm not going to look expectantly at him at the ticket window!
If it's a mutual "let's hang out" sort of thing, it should be split somehow.
I totally agree with whoever made the point of "How often do women really ask the guy on a first date?" So hence it defaults to the guy paying in most first date scenarios.
I know some women want to have their cake and eat it too, so I understand you men getting frustrated with that. I agree that it's nonsense for a girl to expect the man to pay for EVERYTHING and then refuse to lift a finger to clean because it's "sexist". In a relationship, everybody should pull their weight. I've been in both scenarios, where one of us was the sole earner and the other did most of the domestic stuff, and as long as nobody is feeling used it's fine.
As far as dating, I think chivalry is just dying out. Younger men (not you forum-goers! I'm talking my age, early 20s) are just slobs with crass attitudes. None of them have any manners, and it makes me sad that girls put up with that shit. Girls should be taught to value themselves more and demand a certain amount of respect from men. It's also gone the other way too; what once was just manners in men is now viewed as weakness. My boyfriend is as old-fashioned as it gets... he gets the car door, pulls my chair out, carries my heavier bags, etc... and I've had people say he's whipped :O
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Selina M
I know some women want to have their cake and eat it too, so I understand you men getting frustrated with that. I agree that it's nonsense for a girl to expect the man to pay for EVERYTHING and then refuse to lift a finger to clean because it's "sexist". In a relationship, everybody should pull their weight. I've been in both scenarios, where one of us was the sole earner and the other did most of the domestic stuff, and as long as nobody is feeling used it's fine.
As far as dating, I think chivalry is just dying out. Younger men (not you forum-goers! I'm talking my age, early 20s) are just slobs with crass attitudes. None of them have any manners, and it makes me sad that girls put up with that shit. Girls should be taught to value themselves more and demand a certain amount of respect from men. It's also gone the other way too; what once was just manners in men is now viewed as weakness. My boyfriend is as old-fashioned as it gets... he gets the car door, pulls my chair out, carries my heavier bags, etc... and I've had people say he's whipped :O
Agree strongly w/ this. There is such a huge amt of 'wanting it both ways' from both sides, I find it both very sad & a bit disgusting. I have known a few women who def have a 'Princess Complex' expecting men to treat them like goddesses but nvr really showing much appreciation; I can see where a guy would get frustrated after going thru a few 'relationships' w/ these types & become jaded as a result. I can also see where guys get the feeling it is such a tightrope walk between 'Respect Mah INDEPENDENCE!' & 'being a gentleman' that they just throw up their hands & don't want to be bothered w/ it.
But I have also seen way too many guys who seem to think that simple courtesies like holding a door or pulling out a chair are just … beneath them. A few have even come out & said 'If she's not putting out, why should I shell out?'
Too many games on both sides, I think.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kellydancer
Oh I believe in equality through and through. Earlier I mentioned that I believe the person who asks should pay though most men insist on paying. I do think there can be 50/50 in both though but often seems someone gets screwed. For example my brother makes the money (he's a doctor in the army)yet still does the majority of the cooking and a lot of the cleaning.
What does his woman do? Is she also military and is always deployed or is she a "dependa? If she's the latter, he needs an upgrade ASAP!!!!!!
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Jay12
What does his woman do? Is she also military and is always deployed or is she a "dependa? If she's the latter, he needs an upgrade ASAP!!!!!!
The latter. She does not work and never really has been ambitious. Even when they didn't have kids (the first 9 years of the marriage)she worked on and off. She always uses the excuse she is tired.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Aniela
Agree strongly w/ this. There is such a huge amt of 'wanting it both ways' from both sides, I find it both very sad & a bit disgusting. I have known a few women who def have a 'Princess Complex' expecting men to treat them like goddesses but nvr really showing much appreciation; I can see where a guy would get frustrated after going thru a few 'relationships' w/ these types & become jaded as a result. I can also see where guys get the feeling it is such a tightrope walk between 'Respect Mah INDEPENDENCE!' & 'being a gentleman' that they just throw up their hands & don't want to be bothered w/ it.
But I have also seen way too many guys who seem to think that simple courtesies like holding a door or pulling out a chair are just … beneath them. A few have even come out & said 'If she's not putting out, why should I shell out?'
Too many games on both sides, I think.
Agreed. I do expect a lot out of the people I choose to be with, but that's because I expect a lot of myself toward them as well. It really rubs me the wrong way when I hear guys my age showing some sort of stupid pride in how they absolutely refuse to do this, that, or the other thing simply because they don't like the fact that it's "expected of them" or they think they're making some sort of big show of "bucking tradition" and "being a real man who isn't whipped." Um... expectations are what a fucking relationship is. I expect things out of people, but they should be allowed to expect certain things of me in return. I don't want to date someone who one day is gonna treat me one way, but then thinks it's acceptable to treat me another way the next day, and I shouldn't have a right to complain about what I expect consistently...
Although, to be fair, this isn't just a relationship, male/female dynamic. I deal with this in abundance in just everyday friendships as well. I will bend over backwards to do something that I know is important for a friend, cuz I'm like "Well, isn't that what fucking friends do?", but am almost never given the same treatment (not never, but almost never). It's just because everybody nowadays is too far up their own ass...
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Kellydancer
The latter. She does not work and never really has been ambitious. Even when they didn't have kids (the first 9 years of the marriage)she worked on and off. She always uses the excuse she is tired.
I bet she's also super fat, has a few Coach purses, and all sorts of "I love my soldier" bumper stickers!!!!
Dependapotamus!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
Sorry for the previous post: I won't get out of topic anymore.
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Originally Posted by
Sam38g
I NEVER pay on a date. What I do is cook them a homemade dinner after about 3 to 6 dates.
Problem is once they taste my cooking they don't want to fuck anymore. So does that even as a porn star mean I'm that bad in bed? They are like "I can easily get laid, but rather spend the time eating your cooking."
Now, I have become very picky about who I cook for these days.
Sam
That's kinda weird, at least for me. When I had cooked for the men I had been with, my cooking has been what kept them by my side...and of course they kept having all sorts of sex with me as well.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
I always pay on the first and many subsequent dates, until you know each other so well that you are well aware of each others finances.
I open doors for people in general.
Pull your chair out? Open your car door? If you are under 10 or your arms are broken. Seriously, I am in my 50's and women when I was younger would not have put up with that crap. Yeah, there may be a segment of the Junior League that expect it, but a larger segment were in NOW and would picket your damn house...................
HOw absurd does this sound:
Oh I won't ask her out again
why?
WEll, not only did she not wait for me to open her car door, but she walked right up to the restaurant door and opened it herself, I simply didn't know what to say.
shocking!
Oh, and I am sure if the waiter had not rush to pull her chair out she would have done it herself, I was speechless
>>>>>
Trust me that conversation has not happened in the western world since 1964
While paying is a useful indication of future worth, other Victorian niceties have no bearing on a persons fitness as a mate.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Jay12
I bet she's also super fat, has a few Coach purses, and all sorts of "I love my soldier" bumper stickers!!!!
Dependapotamus!!!!!!!!!!
Yep sadly. Don't get me wrong I like her but yes she is lazy.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
I was raised to take care of myself. Sure it's nice if someone else pays but I never expect it from anyone. Plus I don't like the idea of owing anyone shit.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
oldster
Pull your chair out? Open your car door? If you are under 10 or your arms are broken. Seriously, I am in my 50's and women when I was younger would not have put up with that crap. Yeah, there may be a segment of the Junior League that expect it, but a larger segment were in NOW and would picket your damn house...................
Hey hey hey now.... I do not expect any of that stuff in my post, nor do I view it as a "fitness of mate" thing... It took me a LONG time to get used to it because I also thought it was leftover from the 50s. I still occasionally roll my eyes and say "I got it!" when he goes for a chair.
However, my other half is an odd creature... not only is he from a wealthy family/older parents (in their 70s now) with the same sort of manners, he went to military high school (which drilled in a lot of strange habits, like a compulsion to make beds) and has been working in ballroom dance land for 10 years (where they still do all those silly old-fashioned things, and the costumes for competitions show it). That's why he has these overstated polite manners; it's not something I would expect from someone who didn't have that interesting background.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oldster
I always pay on the first and many subsequent dates, until you know each other so well that you are well aware of each others finances.
I open doors for people in general.
Pull your chair out? Open your car door? If you are under 10 or your arms are broken. Seriously, I am in my 50's and women when I was younger would not have put up with that crap. Yeah, there may be a segment of the Junior League that expect it, but a larger segment were in NOW and would picket your damn house...................
HOw absurd does this sound:
Oh I won't ask her out again
why?
WEll, not only did she not wait for me to open her car door, but she walked right up to the restaurant door and opened it herself, I simply didn't know what to say.
shocking!
Oh, and I am sure if the waiter had not rush to pull her chair out she would have done it herself, I was speechless
>>>>>
Trust me that conversation has not happened in the western world since 1964
While paying is a useful indication of future worth, other Victorian niceties have no bearing on a persons fitness as a mate.
To each their own.
The guys I've gone out with still do this, without me asking of course (in case you wonder). Men in their 20's - 40's. I also still see it with other couples around me in public, so it's not just me personally.
I'm use to "old school/ ladies first" mannerisms then.
Again, to each their own.
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
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Originally Posted by
Elektra Luxx
After I get to know the person, I can pay or we can split it. If I go out with a guy as friends that's different, then I don't mind paying in that case or going dutch. I mean if "a guy who wants to get to know me" asks me out, I think he should pay for dinner. And if that person never asked me to pay for something, I'm not going to offer. The whole time I think things are going good and he's thinking "Why doesn't she offer to pay for something?" And I don't think he has the right to trash me on Facebook for not offering to pay! Just wondering what you all think.
To your original question....
Any guy that would bash you on facebook is a LOSER. Seriously. He did you a favor; showing you what a huge ass is he early on. Less time wasted.
A real man would of spoke to you in person and in private about something that bothered him. A qualm discussion to let you know what was bugging him and why. I dont care what age a male is; being a man is based on his actions. It is not what he says, pays, looks like, or who he knows. It is how he deals with issues.
If you looking for a man to have your back the way you have his? protect you? take care of you? it is all about how he deals with issues. Big or small. If he cant even handle a small issue with integrity what makes you think he is going to handle something important better?
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Re: I Think Guys Should Pay on the First Date.
I have watched this thread to see where it would go......
One thing I have learned the hard way over the years, alot of these guys that whine about paying on first dates, are also the same guys that get pissed off when you dont put out on the first date too.
I keep first dates simple, a diner etc, and he always pays. If he tries to push me into paying or having sex or anything I drop him. He has to honor my personal boundaries. If he doesn't I drop him like a hot rock.
Too many players use women's need be accepted, seen as nice, and liked against them. They will try to guilt you into all kinds of shit, without putting in any effort of their own.
The purpose of a date is for him to show me who he really is. I am paying attention. He has to prove himself to me. If he balks at the challenge he isnt a real man. This might sound extreme.... but it has never failed me. I give as good as I get. I am a damn good woman, i deserve a man worthy of me. If paying for a date is too much for them, so am I.