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Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
As was touched on in the Blossom thread, lol:
Is stripping more profitable in areas where the prevailing cultural climate is more sexually conservative? What, if any, is the correlation between the strength of local taboos on female sexuality and a dancer's ability to earn more money cleanly? If women in a given population behave more modestly, and thus the men have less access to free sexual entertainment, are those men more likely to pay for it in strip clubs?
Basically, is stripping better in uptight places? Or does none of it matter, and it's all economics? What's your experience?
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
Theoretically, I think stripping would be much more lucrative if our society was prude. I feel like we're currently over-satuated with sexualized content, and in my mind that makes customers expect more from us.
Even in conservative areas, the hypersexualization of women is still ever-present in media format--which is in your face 24/7.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
no, i don't think that has much to do with it. i see guys coming in from cultures that are EXTREMELY prudish.they'll ask me questions like " how can you have a kid when you aren't married?!" and basically clutch their pearls. they'll giggle and put their hands over their mouths during dances when they think i'm being too "naughty". they seem to be the cheapest customers over all..the kinds of guy who will give you a dollar bill like they are doing you such a big favor. they'll ask if we do $20 blow jobs..you'd think that they'd be willing to pay more than the normal customer just to see naked women, considering that strip clubs are outlawed in their countries, or the women cover up a lot, or if you watch porn you'll be ostracized.
i think it has a lot to do with culture, but not how prudish it is. i don't think guys go to strip clubs because they can't see naked girls anywhere else. they go there for the conversation, or to have fun with their buddies on a saturday night, etc
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
I mean I don't think it's that simple but it was brought up and I thought it'd be fun to discuss. I personally think it's a combination of patriarchal views (OMG though if I say patriarchy one more time today I'm gonna punch myself) on women, generally sexualized consumer culture, and accessibility by the middle class. But I've only danced in a few clubs in one state, so IDK!
I would love to hear from dancers who have been in the industry for more than 15 or 20 years (I know you're out there!) or dancers and customers who have been to clubs in different countries.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
MyButter
Theoretically, I think stripping would be much more lucrative if our society was prude. I feel like we're currently over-satuated with sexualized content, and in my mind that makes customers expect more from us.
Even in conservative areas, the hypersexualization of women is still ever-present in media format--which is in your face 24/7.
Okay, but how though?
Also, food for thought: Salt Lake City. Mormon culture is extremely prudish! But according to SW dancing there blows chunks.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
kaninchen
Okay, but how though?
Also, food for thought: Salt Lake City. Mormon culture is extremely prudish! But according to SW dancing there blows chunks.
You and Simone both have really good points!
Idk, I like to think that it boils down to the simple 'supply and demand' model, and sexual suppression would unfortunately create a level of curiosity = demand.
For me, I think of it like contact. In DC it's no contact and all customers want to do is touch, even the most respectful guys would try to touch a knee, or accidentally touch an arm. In Guam it was full contact and even the super enthusiastic customers would grow bored after the fifth set of boobs.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
kaninchen
I mean I don't think it's that simple but it was brought up and I thought it'd be fun to discuss. I personally think it's a combination of patriarchal views (OMG though if I say patriarchy one more time today I'm gonna punch myself) on women, generally sexualized consumer culture, and accessibility by the middle class. But I've only danced in a few clubs in one state, so IDK!
I would love to hear from dancers who have been in the industry for more than 15 or 20 years (I know you're out there!) or dancers and customers who have been to clubs in different countries.
Great thread, I also saw some of your other posts and was very impressed.
Working in Key West, the capitol of Hedonism in the USA, I can tell you that it's not just sexual repression fueling the business. The stripclubs are very popular here. Except it's kind of a 'Tough Sell' during the week of FantasyFest, when there are literally ten or twenty thousand naked or nearly naked people out on the street right outside.
Though who knows? Maybe the popularity of Key West as a vacation destination originates in its reputation as an island of hedonism, in the middle of a sexually repressed nation?
Because despite all the teenyboppers running around on MTV in lingerie, this country still has a very strong Puritan Heritage, and a very powerful Conservative Christian element. You still can't buy a Playboy magazine in a 7-11, for chrissakes. And look at the outrage Miley Cyrus got for a little brief booty shaking about a year ago.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
Djoser
Though who knows? Maybe the popularity of Key West as a vacation destination originates in its reputation as an island of hedonism, in the middle of a sexually repressed nation?
Perhaps sexually liberal areas such as Florida and Vegas are comparable to the Pleasure Quarters that thrived in Japan ~80 years ago.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
Kaninchen, thank you for making this post! I'm very interested in the topic myself, since I've wavered on the feminist spectrum between the extremes of sex-negativity (like the extreme radfem idea sometimes espoused that "all heterosexual sex is rape until the patriarchy is completely dismantled") and sex-positivity (believing that owning your sexuality and using it and your body however you want is very empowering, and who gives a fuck if it panders to the male gaze and conforms to the patriarchy's strictures of what a woman should be or how one's choices affect other women?). Right now I'm somewhere in between, and trying to figure out where my role as a stripper fits in with my identity as a feminist.
I certainly think that the US, as a society, needs to learn how to deal with female sexuality (that is, to stop calling women sluts and blaming them for their own rapes, and valuing women based on their perceived sexual purity) as well as to stop treating women like sexualized objects. I want to learn more about what the role of strippers and strip clubs in this could be, and how the industry might be affected by changing perceptions and attitudes towards women. As someone who's still very inexperienced in the industry, I too would love to hear veteran opinions.
I think it's really fascinating, kaninchen, that you bring up that some of the biggest strip club markets are those in more liberal areas like Las Vegas or LA, while more conservative areas (the Bible Belt) are stripper wastelands. I wonder how much that has to do with laws and the agendas of lawmakers in those areas versus the general public's proclivities. I mean, that's a legit question. I have no idea what the answer is, since it seems kind of hard to get specific laws for different areas online (I can't even find what the specific laws even about contact are in my city, though it is a liberal city known for being high mileage).
To clarify, before sound like I'm bashing stripping, I love stripping. First and foremost to me it is the job that brings me the majority of my income, so I'm definitely not trying to shit on it or bite the hand that feeds me. Just curious.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
my own analysis 'follows the money' instead of the culture. With that sort of analysis ...
- dancers have a tough time earning money in cities where lots of female skin is on display 'for free'
- dancers have a tough time earning money in cities where 'middle class' customers are struggling to pay high taxes and 'necessary' costs of living ( exception upscale clubs appealing to rich customers )
- dancers have a tough time earning money in cities where clubs are forced to locate in 'isolated' areas
- dancers have a tough time earning money in cities where clubs ( and especially club customers ) face any real 'bust risk'
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
My observations are- median income of an area matters, plus revenue streams (money in a densely packed city can be good & it can *also* be good in a city with a lot of rich target customers, like oil money men or people on vacation cutting loose and having a good time.)
IMO a lot of strippers truly don't WANT to do extras & are happier when the clubs helps them sell less for more. Most cities/states enforce this with legal pressure.
An unfortunate side effect of the Men's Rights Movement is some men feel entitled to NOT pay for female companionship (aka "Bitch You Should Talk To Me For Free.") It does hurt stripper earnings b/c our culture is so hyper-sexualized, men feel as if strippers are not doing more than the average thoughtless young drunk co-ed. Exotic dancers can be more enticing than a drunk girl in a bar, but also more costly.
Men deserve respect- on the same token, they cannot enter a place of business & expect freebies. No restaurant would allow that, why would a strip bar?
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
I don't know if it has an effect now between liberal and conservative (although that's a misnomer as politics often doesn't play as big of a role in sexuality as many think)areas. However, I do know when I started dancing years ago things were different. There certainly was sexuality in the media (Baywatch was on for example when I danced)but it seemed more subtle. Back then a dancer could make money by providing clean airdances, and often not revealing much skin. Back when I started we had to wear two pairs of thongs or panties, one on the skin followed by pantyhose then a pair on top. If we were topless we still had to wear pasties and many clubs were bikini. Now, most of these clubs that were bikini with pantyhose are either topless or nude. The girls now have to do more in these clubs.
There are many factors that play a part. First, the economy and people wanting more for their money. Second, most companies no longer have expense accounts (common when I danced). Third, back then in the 90's there wasn't as much porn online. I don't know if camming was around then but certainly not common like today. Then there is competition. Clubs are greedy and now often hire women who never would have been years ago. I've seen upscale dancers now who'd be rejected there and maybe even mid tier clubs years ago.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
fishielicious
Kaninchen, thank you for making this post! I'm very interested in the topic myself, since I've wavered on the feminist spectrum between the extremes of sex-negativity (like the extreme radfem idea sometimes espoused that "all heterosexual sex is rape until the patriarchy is completely dismantled") and sex-positivity (believing that owning your sexuality and using it and your body however you want is very empowering, and who gives a fuck if it panders to the male gaze and conforms to the patriarchy's strictures of what a woman should be or how one's choices affect other women?). Right now I'm somewhere in between, and trying to figure out where my role as a stripper fits in with my identity as a feminist.
I certainly think that the US, as a society, needs to learn how to deal with female sexuality (that is, to stop calling women sluts and blaming them for their own rapes, and valuing women based on their perceived sexual purity) as well as to stop treating women like sexualized objects. I want to learn more about what the role of strippers and strip clubs in this could be, and how the industry might be affected by changing perceptions and attitudes towards women. As someone who's still very inexperienced in the industry, I too would love to hear veteran opinions.
I think it's really fascinating, kaninchen, that you bring up that some of the biggest strip club markets are those in more liberal areas like Las Vegas or LA, while more conservative areas (the Bible Belt) are stripper wastelands. I wonder how much that has to do with laws and the agendas of lawmakers in those areas versus the general public's proclivities. I mean, that's a legit question. I have no idea what the answer is, since it seems kind of hard to get specific laws for different areas online (I can't even find what the specific laws even about contact are in my city, though it is a liberal city known for being high mileage).
To clarify, before sound like I'm bashing stripping, I love stripping. First and foremost to me it is the job that brings me the majority of my income, so I'm definitely not trying to shit on it or bite the hand that feeds me. Just curious.
LOL Andrea Dworkin, yay!!! As sex-positive and happy for strip clubs as I am, I will always have a special place in my heart for radical feminism and misandry. My own personal take on being an ardent feminist and a stripper is that there really is no conflict between the two identities, despite common rhetoric that a woman cannot simultaneously believe in her equality with men and put her sexuality to work. How many times have you heard people laugh at the idea of being a feminist and a stripper? I know I've heard it too much!
People think the two are mutually exclusive because the sexual objectification of women is the primary tool used by the patriarchy to subjugate them. Stripping is a business which superficially relies on this objectification, but the key difference lies in that it is paid labor for the woman. The woman's sexuality here is fundamentally different from that within a patriarchal paradigm: instead of being chattel traded among men, from father to husband, a stripper reserves her sexual royalties for herself. She has gone from passive object to active agent. So even though she sells the merchandise created by the patriarchy (her sexuality as it is useful to men, to entertain them) she does so like any enterprising businessperson would do. She recognizes a market and exploits it for her own gain.
Most people just see the boobs and the heels, though, and leave it at that. They don't see that the similarity ends with form and diverges radically at content.
I would also argue that a woman's value lies not in her sexual purity (otherwise prude wouldn't be an insult and frigidity wouldn't be a problem) but instead in her sexual utility and obedience to men. The purity thing was of utility in establishing clear-cut paternity, although technology is rendering virginity obsolete. Women being slut-shamed and blamed for their own rapes are being punished for resisting their role of sexual usefulness. A "slutty" woman who has sex on her own terms isn't behaving like chattel, but like a person with agency (as with strippers). A woman who objects to rape is objecting to a man's entitlement to access her body as he sees fit -- I don't think it's a coincidence that "spousal rape" was, until very recently, not a crime.
Anyway, um, to bring all of this back on topic: I think that you bring up a valid point with the role of lawmakers' agendas. It seems like one of the major reasons stripping sucks in conservative areas, and with the example of SLC in particular, is that it is so aggressively regulated. Watching a girl in a bikini gyrate in a cage several feet from you doesn't sound fun or entertaining in any way.
Interestingly, Bible Belt states tend to be the most visibly patriarchal, so it's not surprising that they would limit a woman's ability to profit from her body. Socially liberal areas, say Portland, might care less about preserving women's role as property, so it follows that they wouldn't try to inhibit their business by overly regulating it.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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There are many factors that play a part. First, the economy and people wanting more for their money. Second, most companies no longer have expense accounts (common when I danced). Third, back then in the 90's there wasn't as much porn online. I don't know if camming was around then but certainly not common like today. Then there is competition. Clubs are greedy and now often hire women who never would have been years ago. I've seen upscale dancers now who'd be rejected there and maybe even mid tier clubs years ago.
Indeed the exotic dancing industry has changed drastically in the past couple of decades. For example, today's 'Breastaurants' offer about the same basic content that strip clubs did 20 years ago ( not counting private dances / VIP rooms at extra cost to the customer, of course ) !
In regard to strip clubs now being taboo for business expense accounts, you can thank successful lawsuits by female stockbrokers and sales reps for that. Indeed, the aftermath of those lawsuits greatly decreased customer demand for the 'show' element ... and the resulting financial void greatly increased the importance of the 'contact' element.
Agreed that the average decline in inflation adjusted after-tax income levels, the average increases in costs of 'necessities', etc. for middle class customers has created an increasing mindset that their fewer remaining 'discretionary' spending dollars are now more 'valuable'. As such, those middle class customers increasingly expected more 'contact' for the same price.
And with clubowner income starting to depend far less on the 'show' element, and far more on the 'contact' element, those clubowners began to change their dancer hiring criteria accordingly. Similarly, stunningly beautiful but zero contact dancers saw their earnings levels drop, while somewhat beautiful dancers who were willing to deliver very high 'contact' levels saw their earnings levels rise ... which in combination with changing clubowner hiring criteria arguably caused a basic shift in club 'offerings'.
All of these changes are easily explainable via 'follow the money' analysis.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
SnuffleUffleGrass
An unfortunate side effect of the Men's Rights Movement is some men feel entitled to NOT pay for female companionship (aka "Bitch You Should Talk To Me For Free.") It does hurt stripper earnings b/c our culture is so hyper-sexualized, men feel as if strippers are not doing more than the average thoughtless young drunk co-ed. Exotic dancers can be more enticing than a drunk girl in a bar, but also more costly.
Men deserve respect- on the same token, they cannot enter a place of business & expect freebies. No restaurant would allow that, why would a strip bar?
Yes! It seems that where a stripper's job and the feminine gender construct are conflated, the more dancers have to do for less money. I think this explains the correlation Melonie pointed out, that dancers can struggle in areas where there's lots of female skin on display for free. Why pay for something that all women are supposed to do anyway?
It also explains places like Vegas, where hot girls abound, because they're more often professionally hot. Their sexiness is viewed as work, which must be paid for, rather than a fact of nature.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
Melonie
In regard to strip clubs now being taboo for business expense accounts, you can thank successful lawsuits by female stockbrokers and sales reps for that. Indeed, the aftermath of those lawsuits greatly decreased customer demand for the 'show' element ... and the resulting financial void greatly increased the importance of the 'contact' element.
Can you explain this a little further?
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
kaninchen
LOL Andrea Dworkin, yay!!! As sex-positive and happy for strip clubs as I am, I will always have a special place in my heart for radical feminism and misandry.
Haha yes, I was just a baby feminist when I found Andrea Dworkin through the hilarious woman at the now defunct blog, iblamethepatriarchy.blogspot.com. While I no longer think that way, I'm glad that I read it. It made me think more critically about a lot of media I was passively consuming and social norms I had never thought of as constructs before.
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My own personal take on being an ardent feminist and a stripper is that there really is no conflict between the two identities, despite common rhetoric that a woman cannot simultaneously believe in her equality with men and put her sexuality to work. How many times have you heard people laugh at the idea of being a feminist and a stripper? I know I've heard it too much!
Yes! It was recently on a date with a guy that knew a mutual friend of ours had stripped (and then quit), but didn't know I was a stripper. He said something about how he was glad she quit, because he didn't know how you could respect yourself and strip at the same time. And how it must destroy your soul. When I said, "Well, actually..." he backtracked so quickly but the judgment about my character was already there, you know?
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People think the two are mutually exclusive because the sexual objectification of women is the primary tool used by the patriarchy to subjugate them. Stripping is a business which superficially relies on this objectification, but the key difference lies in that it is paid labor for the woman. The woman's sexuality here is fundamentally different from that within a patriarchal paradigm: instead of being chattel traded among men, from father to husband, a stripper reserves her sexual royalties for herself. She has gone from passive object to active agent. So even though she sells the merchandise created by the patriarchy (her sexuality as it is useful to men, to entertain them) she does so like any enterprising businessperson would do. She recognizes a market and exploits it for her own gain.
I do agree with this, that stripping can give a woman agency over her own body and sexuality and allows her to profit from men leering at and objectifying her in a way they probably would be doing anyway (though usually not so obviously and explicitly). I know some people argue that it reinforces the idea that a woman is a commodity waiting to be bought. I don't agree with that assessment, since strippers of course maintain authority over their bodies and should be able to decide their own boundaries with customers. However, like in the rest of the world, girls do get taken advantage of. I don't at all think that's a problem exclusive to stripping--I think it's another consequence of men across the board feeling entitled to a woman's body. I just think that sense of entitlement may increase when men come into a place like a strip club where, because they've been raised in a culture that endorses the madonna/whore dichotomy, they think, "These girls are whores, therefore no one will care if I treat them with respect." If that makes any sense?
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I would also argue that a woman's value lies not in her sexual purity (otherwise prude wouldn't be an insult and frigidity wouldn't be a problem) but instead in her sexual utility and obedience to men.
I agree, but I definitely think there's an impossible standard for women that includes both maintaining at least an illusion of sexual purity (modesty) while also making herself constantly available to a man and his sexual advances. Men want to believe that the women they're interested in is their sole property. In a strip club, it's strange, because while it's obviously not the case, I've still seen regulars get angry when their favorite stripper is giving dances to another man, as though she just sits there totally chaste all day into he walks in the door. Then she strips off all her clothes, just for him.
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Anyway, um, to bring all of this back on topic: I think that you bring up a valid point with the role of lawmakers' agendas. It seems like one of the major reasons stripping sucks in conservative areas, and with the example of SLC in particular, is that it is so aggressively regulated. Watching a girl in a bikini gyrate in a cage several feet from you doesn't sound fun or entertaining in any way.
Haha, yeah, it's not quite as titillating as having a naked girl sitting in your lap.
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Interestingly, Bible Belt states tend to be the most visibly patriarchal, so it's not surprising that they would limit a woman's ability to profit from her body. Socially liberal areas, say Portland, might care less about preserving women's role as property, so it follows that they wouldn't try to inhibit their business by overly regulating it.
Yes, I just wish there was some way to gauge what the general population in those areas would like to see in a strip club. Of course in very religious areas the lobbies against strip clubs and other sex work would be strongest... But I bet there's a huge percentage of people in those areas who just don't vote or feel disenfranchised who have different opinions. I guess that's kind of beside the point, though, since when we're talking about society and how strippers make money within a society, what matters is the laws and how they are practically applied, not these theoretical questions. It makes some sense to me that someone mentioned in the Blossom post that people in the Bible Belt are HUGE consumers of internet porn, given that that is a pretty private way to consume adult material without risking public censure.
On that note, actually, does anyone know if sex work--either above or below ground--was any different in the Bible Belt pre-Internet age?
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
Kellydancer
Third, back then in the 90's there wasn't as much porn online. I don't know if camming was around then but certainly not common like today.
Where were you dancing then, if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious to know, mostly because of the discussion we've been having about the Bible Belt and strip clubs vs. internet porn. Did you ever dance in those areas?
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kaninchen
People think the two are mutually exclusive because the sexual objectification of women is the primary tool used by the patriarchy to subjugate them. Stripping is a business which superficially relies on this objectification, but the key difference lies in that it is paid labor for the woman. The woman's sexuality here is fundamentally different from that within a patriarchal paradigm: instead of being chattel traded among men, from father to husband, a stripper reserves her sexual royalties for herself. She has gone from passive object to active agent. So even though she sells the merchandise created by the patriarchy (her sexuality as it is useful to men, to entertain them) she does so like any enterprising businessperson would do. She recognizes a market and exploits it for her own gain.
Most people just see the boobs and the heels, though, and leave it at that. They don't see that the similarity ends with form and diverges radically at content.
I would also argue that a woman's value lies not in her sexual purity (otherwise prude wouldn't be an insult and frigidity wouldn't be a problem) but instead in her sexual utility and obedience to men. The purity thing was of utility in establishing clear-cut paternity, although technology is rendering virginity obsolete. Women being slut-shamed and blamed for their own rapes are being punished for resisting their role of sexual usefulness. A "slutty" woman who has sex on her own terms isn't behaving like chattel, but like a person with agency (as with strippers). A woman who objects to rape is objecting to a man's entitlement to access her body as he sees fit -- I don't think it's a coincidence that "spousal rape" was, until very recently, not a crime.
Anyway, um, to bring all of this back on topic: I think that you bring up a valid point with the role of lawmakers' agendas. It seems like one of the major reasons stripping sucks in conservative areas, and with the example of SLC in particular, is that it is so aggressively regulated. Watching a girl in a bikini gyrate in a cage several feet from you doesn't sound fun or entertaining in any way.
Interestingly, Bible Belt states tend to be the most visibly patriarchal, so it's not surprising that they would limit a woman's ability to profit from her body. Socially liberal areas, say Portland, might care less about preserving women's role as property, so it follows that they wouldn't try to inhibit their business by overly regulating it.
SOOOO well said/reasoned! I did a slow clap as I read it! :rotfl: I've found that the best places are not conservative because those guys have a sense of entitlement that is rock solid. They could give a fuck about spending money if they can avoid it. There is no shame in being complete users. Case in point, my club in the Carolinas is good ONLY when guys from liberal states/countries fly in. In the off season...you never saw such ridiculousness as guys who will lie to ensure they get free dances, guys who pick fights with the bouncers trying to enforce the rules, etc.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Originally Posted by
fishielicious
Where were you dancing then, if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious to know, mostly because of the discussion we've been having about the Bible Belt and strip clubs vs. internet porn. Did you ever dance in those areas?
No I danced in Illinois and NW Indiana so they were a bit more liberal politically. What is funny is Indiana is a more conservative state than Illinois yet the clubs were sleazier and had less standards.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
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Can you explain this a little further?
In the early 90's, the 'glass ceiling' started to be regularly broken on Wall St. Thus 'professional' women were added to the ranks of stockbrokers, insurance agents, sales agents, and a host of similar occupations. Prior to this development, men working in those occupations would routinely entertain clients in strip clubs as part of their 'sales pitch'. This led to a lot of money being spent in strip clubs being charged to corporate expense accounts. This also led to a lot of strip club customers whose expectations were limited to looking and talking, as those using a strip club setting to float their 'sales pitch' to their own customer wanted to maintain a 'professional' level interchange ( with a few glaring exceptions ).
However, in the late 90's, some of those 'professional' women started making 'equal opportunity' complaints, and started to bring 'equal opportunity' based lawsuits, based on the premise that they were unable to utilize strip clubs to help 'sell' customers in the same way their male co-workers could. It was pointed out in court that 'professional' women couldn't feel comfortable in a strip club setting ... and as such, the spending of corporate funds in strip clubs by male co-workers to entertain / 'sell' customers constituted a form of 'sex discrimination'. The courts agreed. As a result, the spending of corporate funds in strip clubs was effectively banned for both male and female 'professionals'. Additionally, male 'professionals' were often warned by their corporate employers that continued use of strip clubs to entertain / 'sell' customers, even if the money used to do so came from sources other than corporate expense accounts, would be frowned upon because it still left the corporation exposed to potential future 'sex discrimination' complaints and lawsuits.
The aftermath of these court decisions effectively eliminated some 25% of former strip club customers, as well as some 25% of total customer dollars spent in strip clubs. Essentially, it converted a scenario of 2 'business' customers spending lots of corporate money on 'company time' into one 'business' customer spending their own money on their own time. As stated earlier, this situation created a financial 'void' for dancers, who in turn increased 'contact' levels to compensate for the reduced 'non-contact' earnings potential. Similarly, higher 'contact' levels becoming more generally available attracted a different type of strip club customer as a consequence.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
I've known extras girls who couldn't give away a BBBJ and no contact dancers who made $1k a shift pretty regularly. I think a dancer's earnings depends a lot more on how charming she is and how well she can connect with a wealthy customer on an intellectual level and not necessarily how much she does ie; extras.
Earnings ability is directly tied to how much discretionary income a customer has. The more $$ he/she has to spend on entertainment, the more the dancer will make. I live in a very sexually liberal city. In fact we have more strip clubs per capita than any other American city. Putting "exotic dancer" on a loan application is not an automatic rejection in Portland.
Lonely is lonely regardless of where a person lives on the planet. Lonely men with discretionary income will spend their money on sex workers if that helps them feel less lonely. I think some societal acceptance of strippers and strip clubs makes it easier to part with that money but it also creates more competition for those few S.O.B. dollars available.
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kaninchen
LOL Andrea Dworkin, yay!!! As sex-positive and happy for strip clubs as I am, I will always have a special place in my heart for radical feminism and misandry. My own personal take on being an ardent feminist and a stripper is that there really is no conflict between the two identities, despite common rhetoric that a woman cannot simultaneously believe in her equality with men and put her sexuality to work. How many times have you heard people laugh at the idea of being a feminist and a stripper? I know I've heard it too much!
People think the two are mutually exclusive because the sexual objectification of women is the primary tool used by the patriarchy to subjugate them. Stripping is a business which superficially relies on this objectification, but the key difference lies in that it is paid labor for the woman. The woman's sexuality here is fundamentally different from that within a patriarchal paradigm: instead of being chattel traded among men, from father to husband, a stripper reserves her sexual royalties for herself. She has gone from passive object to active agent. So even though she sells the merchandise created by the patriarchy (her sexuality as it is useful to men, to entertain them) she does so like any enterprising businessperson would do. She recognizes a market and exploits it for her own gain.
Most people just see the boobs and the heels, though, and leave it at that. They don't see that the similarity ends with form and diverges radically at content.
I would also argue that a woman's value lies not in her sexual purity (otherwise prude wouldn't be an insult and frigidity wouldn't be a problem) but instead in her sexual utility and obedience to men. The purity thing was of utility in establishing clear-cut paternity, although technology is rendering virginity obsolete. Women being slut-shamed and blamed for their own rapes are being punished for resisting their role of sexual usefulness. A "slutty" woman who has sex on her own terms isn't behaving like chattel, but like a person with agency (as with strippers). A woman who objects to rape is objecting to a man's entitlement to access her body as he sees fit -- I don't think it's a coincidence that "spousal rape" was, until very recently, not a crime.
Anyway, um, to bring all of this back on topic: I think that you bring up a valid point with the role of lawmakers' agendas. It seems like one of the major reasons stripping sucks in conservative areas, and with the example of SLC in particular, is that it is so aggressively regulated. Watching a girl in a bikini gyrate in a cage several feet from you doesn't sound fun or entertaining in any way.
Interestingly, Bible Belt states tend to be the most visibly patriarchal, so it's not surprising that they would limit a woman's ability to profit from her body. Socially liberal areas, say Portland, might care less about preserving women's role as property, so it follows that they wouldn't try to inhibit their business by overly regulating it.
Thank you so many times over!!! I had a good friend of mine I had known for years start giving me shit about how I was feeding the patriarchy.... I kept telling him I consider myself as feminist, and no one is taking advantage of strippers, it's the other way around! The way you worded it is perfect. Thank you!
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kaninchen
As was touched on in the Blossom thread, lol:
Is stripping more profitable in areas where the prevailing cultural climate is more sexually conservative? What, if any, is the correlation between the strength of local taboos on female sexuality and a dancer's ability to earn more money cleanly? If women in a given population behave more modestly, and thus the men have less access to free sexual entertainment, are those men more likely to pay for it in strip clubs?
Basically, is stripping better in uptight places? Or does none of it matter, and it's all economics? What's your experience?
If there are a lot of jobs and a growing economy, YES! This is why I make waaaaaaaaay more in Midwestern places than places like NYC. There is always that chance of having a much higher night with a random rich guys in Miami NYC etc. but honestly my highest nights have all been in midwestern states from guys in Utah and like Oklahoma... they are WAY more excited to just see your boobs and talk to you for $$$$$$ than an unimpressed New Yorker that's wondering why you won't put out for $200 or be his sugar baby ��
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Re: Modesty, taboos, and strip club profitability: what makes a difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYC.Bianca
If there are a lot of jobs and a growing economy, YES! This is why I make waaaaaaaaay more in Midwestern places than places like NYC. There is always that chance of having a much higher night with a random rich guys in Miami NYC etc. but honestly my highest nights have all been in midwestern states from guys in Utah and like Oklahoma... they are WAY more excited to just see your boobs and talk to you for $$$$$$ than an unimpressed New Yorker that's wondering why you won't put out for $200 or be his sugar baby ��
I don't know about the Midwest being a booming economy but I understand the gist of the argument. People that are jaded are always bad for business (and relationships), high value people no longer want to have fun anymore, they just want to play the games only they can selfishly win. This in turn creates a feedback loop where I start to see jaded people as a big red flag to avoid, leaving them to only hang out with themselves. I wonder if dancers do the same, since it is throwing good money (your time) at bad (OTC for bargain bin prices).