Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Candycups
The official answer regarding what I'm obligated/expected to give in VIP vs. the floor is, "Same thing, just with a bit more privacy."
But absolutely ***nothing*** I've read here actually confirmed that.
That's because it varies by club.
Most of the ladies on here work at different clubs with different VIP structures and different expectations, so of course there isn't going to be a single explanation of what you're obligated/expected to do in VIP. Ask your management what your club rules are (specifically what is and isn't allowed, not just a vague answer) and follow those. If they make you uncomfortable -- because the sad reality is that extras and orgasms can be the norm in certain clubs, though certainly not all -- yes, either forego offering VIP or simply let your customers know upfront what your boundaries are. Being a clean dancer in a dirty club is an uphill battle, so it honestly may be easiest to just find a new club -- added bonus of being better for your mental health and not getting you caught up in a raid.
It sounds like you may be working in a dirty club if management was openly telling you to be more "liberal" in VIP. If that and your club's customers' expectations makes you uncomfortable, which it sounds like they do, find a new club. But we can't tell you what "liberal" means in your club because it depends on your club's rules. "Liberal" in my high contact club is very different from "liberal" in my old no contact club.
FTR, the only think you are "obligated" to do in VIP is spend the appropriate amount of time (ie. however much they paid for) with the customer. And even that -- if they're breaking the rules or making you uncomfortable, you have the power to say no and leave or get security.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Wow, wtf is w/ the snarky answers up there? Really uncalled for.
First thing, do not 'over-promise' when trying to sell a VIP. Don't indicate that you will do things you have no intention of doing, then get the customer back there & refuse to deliver. That is where you truly get into 'rip off bitch' territory & can get yourself into serious trouble w/ the customer. You can manage this by either being very vague (one of my favourite lines is 'I'll be the most fun you've ever had w/ your clothes on') abt 'giving them a good time' or flat out stating, 'I won't do X Y or Z'. There are a lot of threads on how to handle these situations in Hustle Hut.
Second, when you do sell the VIP, GET PAID UPFRONT. Shanna was right in saying it sounds like you're in a dirty club. Get your $$$ in the beginning so that if the customer gets too aggressive, won't take no for an answer, you can walk w/o risking the very real possibility of mgmt taking the customer's side in a payment dispute & refusing to get you your $$$.
Third, research your local bylaws & also get concrete answers from mgmt abt what exactly is permitted &/or expected. It's important to know the local laws for your own protection, & they can vary significantly by area. We are dancers, & sexual favours are not part of our job description, so do not ever feel that just bc mgmt says 'Customers expect XYZ so you have to do that to make $$', you have to do it. They cannot force you to do anything, & if they try, march your ass to the locker room, pack your things & leave. Don't even bother tipping them out & don't go back.
There is a thread in Hustle Hut by Laurisa called 'How to make money as a clean dancer while working in a club with heavy extras'. Run a search on her username & it should be found under her 'started threads' tab. That thread is gold, make it work for you until you can find a better club.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Um. A dude getting pissed because you didn't give him more like blow job or hand job whatever is HIS fault unless you promised this to get him back there like a bait and switch.
A customer is paying for your time and to see you dance. That's it. I maybe let them touch - more money of course - if it's done respectfully like not trying to grab or touch my private regions.
The benefit of VIP is no other customers intruding on our time it's more personal and more sensual as I don't allow customers to get too touchy feely on the main floor.
Basically your boundaries should be respected whether or not their paying you for VIP. If it doesn't feel right then don't do it.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aniela
Wow, wtf is w/ the snarky answers up there? Really uncalled for.
^Thank you! I was just about to say.
In defense to you OP, this is a legit question that you won't find a straight answer to on this site. Like you I've noticed there was no clear answer when I was new to the site, contrary to what I saw at the clubs. You won't find a straight answer here, because girls who do extras who lurk this site aren't going to come out and say it out in the open and get attacked by other members of this site, or if there were girls who admitted to doing more in the rooms, they've probably already been flamed off the site.
If you're noticing a pattern, it's not just you. Generally speaking I've found clubs with a higher VIP room price are where you'll find a lot more pushy guys about what goes on back there, because they pay these high prices and expect the world sometimes. But in some areas and clubs I've heard that guys will expect a blowjob at the cost of a few dances. It's regional and varies from club to club too. I really wouldn't compare with the other girls in your club because they could be saying one thing and then do another, I myself have met girls who say they don't do extras, but do them. Or their definition of clean is only giving handjobs in the room, but no sex. Then it became clear to me.
I don't know where you are, but your club sounds more like an extras club and it doesn't sound very safe. I would take a look over at TUSCL.net to read reviews about your club. Sometimes the reviews will hint or talk about the "services" they got in the back and once in a while they even mention the girl's name/appearance. Those reviews can paint a pretty good picture of your club.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Cleaned up the snark. I didn't see anything wrong with the OP's question...in fact, I think this is a question we're all dealing with whenever we go into work. Lighten up on the newbs, y'all! Damn.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
the golden rule in dancing is to only do whatever you're comfortable with, and nothing more. of course, there is a caveat to that. if you're working in a club where the clientele expect things you don't want to provide, you will find yourself dodging hands all night. also, if you're willing to provide more than the status quo at a club, don't be surprised when someone willing to go further than you to compete for money, thereby making creating an environment where you have to work harder for less (i've seen this happen at least 4 times).
it's a fine line to walk. but always remain true to yourself and you'll be ok.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Alright, feeling a little better now. FWIW, all the threads that lead me to think more was expected were blue threads, or comments from customers complaining about how, if they're going to bust out the big bucks for a room, they're going to want something they can't get on the floor for a lot cheaper. It was a bit discouraging. I just switched to a new club that has really limited contact, and it's pretty great. That was the one with the guy who got upset when he found out he just rented a curtained off couch and a half an hour of my time/dancing, not a hotel room and a hooker. The management and bouncers are all really awesome here, so guys going too far isn't really a problem. So far they've done stellar work, so it's all good there. The guys at the other club combined with the expectations of the one guy at this new club, combined with some of the threads/comments from customers on here, though, all definitely worked together to make me go "hrrrm." I have a friend who told me the official rule above in the OP ^^ but that was one person in a swarm, so it's nice to hear it from other sources, too. I really appreciate all of your answers. :) I'm slowly getting the hang of seeing things through stripper perspective/philosophy/state of mind (Is there a proper term for that?) but I still have a hard time with some things. Many thanks. :)
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
The blue-dominant threads, as well as a lot of the blue posts in general, can be quite the eye-opener, as well as quite the stomach-opener :ill: if you're a clean dancer. There was a fairly recent thread in the blue section titled 'Why do guys get so offended when asked to pay upfront?' that I think should be linked in the Newbie Board stickies. Reading between the lines of threads like that it's both infuriating & saddening that guys feel so good abt themselves for displaying those expectations & behaviours. There are also sm threads waaaaaaaaaaaay back from like 10yrs ago by a pink who, shall we say, was pretty open & a bit aggressive abt going above & beyond the call of duty. I stumbled on her posts earlier tonite looking for smtg else & was just kinda :no:
Customers are not the ones to listen to on this subj, tho, EVER. The SC is not your typical 'the customer is always right' environment, altho depending on your club's mgmt you will have to learn to stay a couple steps ahead of shitty customers bc mgmt will take their side over yours. Customers are there for their own ends, just like you are, & you will probably not see a bigger proportion of 'CS' (aka customer shit) during your entire dancing career than during the first 6mo.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
This is why I hardly EVER do VIP's. I will only do a VIP if the customer understands that I will NOT perform extras. I will tell him that the difference between VIP and floor dances, is that in VIP I can dance for him nude (whereas on the floor is topless only). Also, it is more private and a little bit more intimate (but absolutely no sex, BJ's, HJ's, fingering, or oral). Most of the time, they want more, so I don't even bother trying to sell VIP most of the time. I can still make money with just floor dances. But on the rare occasion, if I feel comfortable enough with the customer, I will tell him, "If you want a more private, intimate time, we can go in VIP. I can massage your back and neck, dance for you nude, cuddle, talk dirty, drink, dance some more....doesn't that sound like fun? But just so you know, I don't have sex or do extras here. I would want to get to know you more first anyway, if we were ever to go all the way." (Of course I would never go all the way w/ the customer or ever see him OTC.)
And ALWAYS get the money upfront. Tell them you need the money upfront, otherwise you won't go back there with them.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Candycups
FWIW, all the threads that lead me to think more was expected were blue threads, or comments from customers complaining about how, if they're going to bust out the big bucks for a room, they're going to want something they can't get on the floor for a lot cheaper. It was a bit discouraging.
Ugh, you've just got to ignore those threads and sites where customers can post such reviews. No good comes of reading them! If I see a customer review here or anywhere, I just scroll by since they never incite a positive reaction. Just remember that the customers that both (a) feel that way and (b) feel the need to air those thoughts online are a very small subset of the strip club customer population. Even the dirtiest club will have random customers who aren't looking for that and will even turn it down when offered. Focus on those customers and try and turn them into regulars, because then you can avoid skirting around octopus hands and dealing with dudes who want to get the most bang for their buck.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Set your boundaries and be firm. My rooms are usually a combo of witty banter, eating up time by getting the customer trashed, lap dances, and S&M fun (I worked as a pro-Domme for many years and tend to attract submissive men). I have seen other dancers giving blow jobs, hand jobs, doing coke, refusing to even get topless and just chatting, ect. Everyone has different levels of comfort and just do what you are okay with. Always get paid up front and don't promise anything you are not willing to do; you can always walk put of a room if they are too pushy. I have never had to give money back from a room I have walked out of (I give 2 warnings first). Tip your management and security well and they will always be on your side.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
The trick is to completely IGNORE what other girls do in VIP, IGNORE what customers say that other girls do in VIP, IGNORE customers who say "I'd get a VIP with you if you'd do ______." These guys are NOT your target market. Set your boundaries, stick to them, and look for guys who want an experience and are less focused on what they'll "get" during their time with you. I highly recommend laughter as a coping mechanism when you see other girls doing things with customers that are beyond your boundaries and / or illegal. Laugh, shake your head, and keep doing your thing.
My advice sounds simple, but trust me, I know how difficult it can be when you start feeling pressure from the club / other girls / high-spending customers to push your boundaries. In the long run, standing your ground will save your sanity and will prevent permanent burnout (plus a plethora of other issues).
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Don't go into a room with multiple unknown girls.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
At my current club "it is known" that extras often go down in the VIP rooms/CRs. They're basically set up for it. I've done very few rooms at this club and I'm always open and honest with the customer that I do nothing but dance, talk, and hang out. At my home club VIP rooms are more inexpensive and "it is known" that nothing is going down but dancing. It's a super clean/low contact club. I sold those rooms like hot cakes. It sounds like you're in my current kind of club..I know it sucks. I actively avoid upselling rooms unless I have a perfect gentleman on my hands because I don't want the trouble of them "expecting" things I do not do.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
When guys belittle VIP because there's no extras in my club I simply tell them it's a luxury that some men have the taste for and can afford. ;)
The benefits are that we are uninterrupted, I don't have to go in stage or do our hourly parade. You don't have people walking past and peeping as they do so and it inc,uses a bottle of whatever you'd like. some people actually appreciate that and those are the people I choose to spend a good chunk of my night with.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
At one of the clubs where I work the VIP rooms have a large couch and then a table in them and it's implied that yes, you give lapdances, but if a customer wants to drink a bottle of wine/champagne, or buy you lunch or something, you should try to sell the VIP to get paid for your time (though I don't usually turn down free food lol) Usually I hang out, drink, cuddle, if they're into it, sit on their lap and feed them in a sexy way. Stuff you can't do on the club floor but would still be worth the money, and some lapdances.
Re: Actual VIP Expectations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aniela
The blue-dominant threads, as well as a lot of the blue posts in general, can be quite the eye-opener, as well as quite the stomach-opener :ill: if you're a clean dancer. There was a fairly recent thread in the blue section titled 'Why do guys get so offended when asked to pay upfront?' that I think should be linked in the Newbie Board stickies. Reading between the lines of threads like that it's both infuriating & saddening that guys feel so good abt themselves for displaying those expectations & behaviours. There are also sm threads waaaaaaaaaaaay back from like 10yrs ago by a pink who, shall we say, was pretty open & a bit aggressive abt going above & beyond the call of duty. I stumbled on her posts earlier tonite looking for smtg else & was just kinda :no:
Customers are not the ones to listen to on this subj, tho, EVER. The SC is not your typical 'the customer is always right' environment, altho depending on your club's mgmt you will have to learn to stay a couple steps ahead of shitty customers bc mgmt will take their side over yours. Customers are there for their own ends, just like you are, & you will probably not see a bigger proportion of 'CS' (aka customer shit) during your entire dancing career than during the first 6mo.
I was the one that started that thread and it ended up pretty much confirming what I had already suspected anyway.