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p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
I'm not on p411 but I was hoping to use them soon, I just have no reviews yet. However, I follow a lot of sex worker tumblrs and found a weird blog entry about it from a year ago. I don't know if i's a good idea to post it, but if you're curious or know what it's talking about feel free to pm me.
moderators, if it's ok to post it i'll be happy to.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
I know the blog entry of which you speak and occasionally web search for any p411 alerts or news for my own peace of mind. P411 just closed their ad board and changed their profile standards. The latter was supposedly to conform with the new Canadian law and the former was not really explained except they could not monitor it.
I value p411 and hope it remains safe for escorts and clients. I see no signs right now of any issues and, from speaking with escorts, they find the clients relatively sophisticated in not forcing incriminating conversations or at least more so than review board clients.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
That's good to hear, thanks!
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
i feel better after reading through the comments and seeing @sarcasticgoldfish 's reply, but here is the link for the curious
https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/...g-in-the-milk/
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pranceprance
Yep, that the same one I thought you were talking about. It doesn't really take much to compromise any system given that all you need is one sex worker or one client to give up their logins. This is why I try to monitor alerts and occasionally do searches, I have my own in room protocol. Which once alone with LE we know they lie, but its something. I'm sure you have your additional screening and in-room protocol. With that said, since P411 has no connection to underage and has many policies to make sure that never happens, since what the website does complies with the law in Canada, and since there is so much low hanging fruit for busts that I get some measure of reassurance. Let's face it, in many communities LE simply runs a few easy traps on massage parlors, they run a few backpage busts, and they sweep a few of the ever dwindling street walker locations. This pretty much keeps them busy. The street walker locations are priority since they show 'cleaning up' the community and the rest are just much easier and safer busts for LE.
As with everything P11 isn't a guarantee, but it is a useful tool. One thing we can all count on is that there will always be persecution from the moralists and control freaks.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SarcasticGoldFish
Yep, that the same one I thought you were talking about. It doesn't really take much to compromise any system given that all you need is one sex worker or one client to give up their logins. This is why I try to monitor alerts and occasionally do searches, I have my own in room protocol. Which once alone with LE we know they lie, but its something. I'm sure you have your additional screening and in-room protocol. With that said, since P411 has no connection to underage and has many policies to make sure that never happens, since what the website does complies with the law in Canada, and since there is so much low hanging fruit for busts that I get some measure of reassurance. Let's face it, in many communities LE simply runs a few easy traps on massage parlors, they run a few backpage busts, and they sweep a few of the ever dwindling street walker locations. This pretty much keeps them busy. The street walker locations are priority since they show 'cleaning up' the community and the rest are just much easier and safer busts for LE.
As with everything P11 isn't a guarantee, but it is a useful tool. One thing we can all count on is that there will always be persecution from the moralists and control freaks.
YIKES. That was a scary blog to read. I guess P411 isn't as safe as I thought it was. I have met some great gentlemen on that site though. This is also why I never touch the money at all during the appointment even to count it and I only do incall so the room is not tapped. You never know who could be working with police. Counting the cash with the client present or having to go to court with no evidence that cash was involved? I'd skip counting the cash any day. This is how one girl got off free because she never touched the money the time she encountered LE. It scares me when guys hand it to me. I now am trying to ignore them handing me the cash and head on to the bed by myself.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
IIRC there is a posting by Gina that says basically a former employee or somesuch that was trying to sow FUD because of a disagreement.
It would seem to work, even a year later..........
Nothing is perfect but I don't think there is a real problem over there.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by
indiegirl
YIKES. That was a scary blog to read. I guess P411 isn't as safe as I thought it was. I have met some great gentlemen on that site though. This is also why I never touch the money at all during the appointment even to count it and I only do incall so the room is not tapped. You never know who could be working with police. Counting the cash with the client present or having to go to court with no evidence that cash was involved? I'd skip counting the cash any day. This is how one girl got off free because she never touched the money the time she encountered LE. It scares me when guys hand it to me. I now am trying to ignore them handing me the cash and head on to the bed by myself.
Funny you mention not counting, some years back I read the same so now for a new appt I always bring large bills and fan them on the table so the amount can be seen. In the US it should be a best practice for clients and providers. I wonder sometimes what a provider might think about the fanned money, but no complaints.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
Would it not be better to meet the potential client for coffee, ICEcream, or lunch for a few dollars and scope each other out? There may be some way to make that work and to find out what she would like for a 'birthday present.' If I were in the market for a 'friend,' I would find that to be a good way to develop mutual rapport.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
I'm traveling to Vegas in June to entertain some of my own clients, although I don't offer them nearly as much value as escorts offer me. I was doing some pre-town screening and found an ECCIE alert from a provider (not linking, but easy to find at ECCIE - Las Vegas - Alerts) that indicated a P411 compromise resulting in an arrest. A second hand account (not confirmed by Gina and not a direct account) said a client P411 account was compromised by LE and LE set up at least one sting and arrest.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by
threlayer
Would it not be better to meet the potential client for coffee, ICEcream, or lunch for a few dollars and scope each other out? There may be some way to make that work and to find out what she would like for a 'birthday present.' If I were in the market for a 'friend,' I would find that to be a good way to develop mutual rapport.
Nope! I've read of girls getting arrested with the cop car right around the corner waiting for them. He worked with LE with 0 references and claimed to be newly single from his girlfriend so he wanted to meet for drinks first.
I never go out in public or on outcalls anymore with a client because you are putting your life in a strangers hands, plus it's uncomfortable lol. You also never know where you might end up if he's driving the car. I was stupid when I first started out and did those things but after hearing enough scary stories, never again.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
You cannot be arrested for socializing with a provider, provided no talk of sex for money or other valuables. Still, if some young-turk, overly ambitious cop gets wind of it, you will need to hire a lawyer. and that cop will be out to get you later, for something he thinks will stick better even if he has to lie to get you. Just pretend it is for some celebration, yours or hers; hell, even for a cousin's divorce celebration, but maybe not in a dark corner of a provider hangout bar.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by
indiegirl
Nope! I've read of girls getting arrested with the cop car right around the corner waiting for them. He worked with LE with 0 references and claimed to be newly single from his girlfriend so he wanted to meet for drinks first.
I never go out in public or on outcalls anymore with a client because you are putting your life in a strangers hands, plus it's uncomfortable lol. You also never know where you might end up if he's driving the car. I was stupid when I first started out and did those things but after hearing enough scary stories, never again.
I'm inclined to agree if for no other reason than there are better ways to for an escort to screen - for both safety and against entrapment. Time is valuable and if you've got to make a date of every client where does that leave serious clients who are in it for the simplicity and honesty of the exchange? The risk of relying on in-person screening seems high. If you have a police force with a team with nothing better to do than practice ways to entrap you, then not having already screened this risk out is the danger. Once you are in their trap, even if its a public lunch, they can play the dangerous game of trying to strip you of your money and your freedom.
I'm sorry, LE aside, there are many practiced ways for escorts to screen clients prior to meeting. Stripperweb has in-depth forums and advise for that screening. For all our safety I much prefer an escort run a well screened operation and that both sides use best practices when meeting to avoid the exchange dialogue LE is after.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
I agree that there are other ways to verify guys. I do screen them in advance as well using a variety of methods. However there are ladies who are strict out there that refuse to see men unless they have a certain amount of references. Every lady has different methods of screening and boundaries in order to feel safe in this industry. I, myself, have met men who are new to the hobby with credible work information online, linkedin info, other giveaways, and a business card or some form of id they send me. I've met a client I knew was safe at a bar and a few houses as well when I was first starting out. What I have learned over time, is that the bad apples tend to ruin the simplicity and ease of seeing men in public over time. There are men out there who are on their best behavior and keep a few providers as good references in order to scam others. Once they get blacklisted, they change all their information and repeat. After hearing stories of verified, recommended men trapping a lady in his house, one of my old potential clients saw another provider and he gave her no money at the dinner, it gives me peace of mind to have specific restrictions. Plus there is such a thing as a compromised adult review site account & a p411 account and it does happen.
But it is normally the men with 0 references, can't find any legit work information, no linkedin information, or out of country visitors who ask to meet in person or in a setting where a lady would not feel comfortable. I am dealing with a man right now who has no information on his job as if it were a fake business and no linked in page for this large business, his work info doesn't match his job on his facebook page, and he is pretending to have seen providers by giving fake phone numbers of his brother or random ladies he met at strip clubs. This is the type of guy who usually wants to meet in a public setting usually (this is all from my experience so far).
I will admit, I do get nervous around new clients with 0 references even with confirmed business information to this day. Maybe I am a little paranoid still lol!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SarcasticGoldFish
I'm inclined to agree if for no other reason than there are better ways to for an escort to screen - for both safety and against entrapment. Time is valuable and if you've got to make a date of every client where does that leave serious clients who are in it for the simplicity and honesty of the exchange? The risk of relying on in-person screening seems high. If you have a police force with a team with nothing better to do than practice ways to entrap you, then not having already screened this risk out is the danger. Once you are in their trap, even if its a public lunch, they can play the dangerous game of trying to strip you of your money and your freedom.
I'm sorry, LE aside, there are many practiced ways for escorts to screen clients prior to meeting. Stripperweb has in-depth forums and advise for that screening. For all our safety I much prefer an escort run a well screened operation and that both sides use best practices when meeting to avoid the exchange dialogue LE is after.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
I wrote this two years about about P411
All screening services can be compromised and pretty much all of them have been to different degrees. You have to double screen and be very diligent. Fact is theres no fool proof way to screen. The idea is to minimize the risk as you will never eliminate the risk.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
For those that are interested P411's Available Now Ad has gone live. It's a simple listing for clients to see if anyone is available on short notice. I mostly try and prebook, but its a struggle to make a short notice appointment, maybe this will help everyone.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jennydemilo
I wrote this two years about about P411
http://jennydemilo.com/2013/06/p411-infiltrated/
"All screening services can be compromised and pretty much all of them have been to different degrees. You have to double screen and be very diligent. Fact is theres no fool proof way to screen. The idea is to minimize the risk as you will never eliminate the risk.
It seems a handful of ladies met with this undercover and pronounced him legit when they didn’t fuck him for cash. They met him in a public place (for cash) had a nice little meet and greet then when on their way. They then OK’d him."
Quoted above from the jennydemilo article is what I see as one of the crucial lessons learned for best practices. I understand P411 has some sort of incentives for granting OKAYs? Not sure if this is good policy.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
I would assume that clients on p411 are more gentlemen like but there are certainly exceptions. Also I could and do believe that the site has been used, at least once, by LE; although as already mentioned LE probably and usually go after easier and lower end providers. Given that a lot, but not all, of the explicit language has been removed from p411 via changes to the Activity List and closure of the Ad Board, I would guess it works better in terms following the law.
I think Gina could be more considerate towards providers and at the end of the day she is probably about making $. At the same time I would believe, whether right or wrong, that there are people that inherently don't like her or would like to see her fail and so on.
From what I read a provider gets 5 points for an Okay they give out to every unique individual only once. So if they were to give an updated Okay to same client they would not get another 5 points; I guess it's like that so someone just doesn't give out lots of Okays in exchange for free points.
As a client I think we may upload our first photo on our profile for free; then each additional photo is 20 points, total of 5 photos. For providers I believe photos are also 20 points. Verified Photo Badge is 50 points. Visiting Ads are 20 points per month. Animated GIFs are 25 points per month.
Featured Ads Listings are at least 75 points per month and Top10s Listings are at least 100 points per month or more depending on location.
A few other verification websites are:
Date-Check
Lux Verify
RoomService2000
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
From my experience, p 411 is awesome BUT they cannot control if a client gets in trouble and the LE accesses their electronic data. This is why you screen clients and keep them at arm's length until you are sure they are safe. (Also never let a client with boundary issues pressure you into doing risky things to expose yourself. Many "troll" hobbyists do this for fun & amusement & don't really care if they get busted, robbed or worse.)
p 411 has been very fair and open about security issues. I would recommend the site to any escort wishing to network in a safer manner.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SarcasticGoldFish
For those that are interested P411's Available Now Ad has gone live. It's a simple listing for clients to see if anyone is available on short notice. I mostly try and prebook, but its a struggle to make a short notice appointment, maybe this will help everyone.
I am highly interested in P411's new feature! I hope they don't charge for it as they do charge for ads already.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
I posted this wrong and can't delete it LOL!
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
I don't think deleting is allowed, I overshared once, came to my senses and realized I couldn't delete it. Ughh, just went back and edited my comment.
Did you find out if P411 is charging for the Available Now listing? I'm digging the feature and made several appointments already.
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SarcasticGoldFish
Did you find out if P411 is charging for the Available Now listing? I'm digging the feature and made several appointments already.
Gina is active on the ECCIE.net board, I think it's because there is a high number of providers that use p411 in Texas. In one of her more recent posts she said "Providers, please post on the Available Now board as often as you see fit, it's totally free..."
Here's link to this thread:
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention
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Re: p411 compromised? confusing blog entry that received a lot of attention